Precision Air crash, Lake Victoria [Archive]

A0283

6th Nov 2022, 08:11

Tanzania crash (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63532896)Tanzanian passenger plane crashes (or overruns) or shorts into Lake Victoria next to the north-western town of Bukoba.

More than 20 of the 49 passengers have been rescued, according to local media, but this still has to be officially confirmed.
One end of the runway at Bukoba airport lies right next to the shore of Lake Victoria, Africa's largest lake.
T-tail still visible above the surface.
The Precision Air flight going from Tanzania's biggest city, Das es Salaam, to Bukoba via Mwanza when it reportedly encountered a storm and heavy rains.

krismiler

6th Nov 2022, 09:58

https://youtu.be/uPB3pWyUAt4

https://youtu.be/uPB3pWyUAt4

Possibly some similarities with the Lion Air arrival into the sea just short of the runway in Bali, and Air Niugini into Chuuk Lagoon.

Both of these involved a cocked up non precision approach in bad weather and a go around which didn’t happen.

weatherdude

6th Nov 2022, 13:45

This must have been a difficult approach for the crew from the SE with rapidly intensifiying storm cells over the lake.

Sat loop (https://kachelmannwetter.com/de/sat/325-e-19-s/satellit-hd-15min/20221106-0530z.html#play-0-8-5)

scr1

6th Nov 2022, 15:44

19 reported dead

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63532896

metalboi69

6th Nov 2022, 18:41

According to some passenger reports (via Avherald), that was their 2nd approach to the airfield.

Also, there are no published instrument approaches for Bukoba.

megan

6th Nov 2022, 21:15

Odd.......The two pilots survived the crash and were in touch with rescue workers from the cockpit before reporting that their oxygen supply was dwindling, Albert Chalamila, chief administrator of Tanzania's Kagera region, told Reuters. They were dead when rescue workers reached them, but the two flight attendants survived, he said.

Timmy Tomkins

7th Nov 2022, 09:16

BBC pictures show the island beyond the plane, so most likely an overrun. A pretty basic airfield. The pilots may have drowned as their oxygen ran out - awful way to end your career.

FUMR

7th Nov 2022, 14:30

BBC pictures show the island beyond the plane, so most likely an overrun. A pretty basic airfield. The pilots may have drowned as their oxygen ran out - awful way to end your career.

I suggest that the aircraft may well have spun around either during or after impact. The direction it's facing when it has come to rest does not mean anything (especially in water).

jackharr

7th Nov 2022, 14:36

uxb99

7th Nov 2022, 15:53

Locked flight deck door perhaps? Wasn't there a crash at Amsterdam when the rescue crew couldn't get to the pilots?
I retired before that policy came in. I would have hated it. I can't be sure that my sanity would have survived being imprisoned like that.

Doesn't the flight deck incorporate some form of emergency exit, Jettison able window, fire axe etc? If not isn't that a H&S issue for the crew? After all the passengers have them (not axes but everything else) ?

Liffy 1M

7th Nov 2022, 16:03

Doesn't the flight deck incorporate some form of emergency exit, Jettison able window, fire axe etc? If not isn't that a H&S issue for the crew? After all the passengers have them (not axes but everything else) ?
There is a roof hatch. See the third photo in this case, which also involved entry into the water. Accident: Niugini AT42 at Madang on Oct 19th 2013, overran runway on rejected takeoff (http://avherald.com/h?article=46a2b3ac)

NutLoose

7th Nov 2022, 16:04

A fisherman who was one of the first responders at the site of Sunday's plane crash which killed 19 people in Tanzania's Lake Victoria, has described how he tried to save the pilots stuck in the cockpit and how he nearly lost his life trying to rescue them.

Majaliwa Jackson has been officially declared a hero, awarded 1 million Tanzanian shillings ($430; £370), and offered a job in the fire and rescue brigade for his efforts.

Speaking to the BBC from his hospital bed in the lakeside town of Bukoba before the government announcement, Mr Jackson said he panicked as he saw the passenger plane approach from the wrong direction, before plunging into the lake.

He rushed to the scene with three fellow fishermen and helped to open the rear door by smashing it with a rowing oar which helped passengers seated towards the rear of the plane to be rescued.

Mr Jackson said he then moved to the front and dived into the water. He and one of the pilots then communicated with each other by making signs through the cockpit window.

"He directed me to break the window screen. I emerged from the water and asked airport security, who had arrived, if they have any tools that we can use to smash the screen.

"They gave me an axe, but I was stopped by a man with a public announcement speaker from going down and smashing the screen. He said they were already in communication with the pilots and there was no water leakage in the cockpit," Mr Jackson said.

He added that after being stopped he "dived back and waved goodbye to the pilot".

But the pilot then indicated that he still wanted to be rescued.

"He pointed out the cockpit emergency door to me. I swam back up and took a rope and tied it to the door and we tried to pull it with other boats, but the rope broke and hit me in the face and knocked me unconscious. The next thing I know I was here at the hospital," Mr Jackson said.

Both pilots are among the 19 confirmed fatalities after the plane - operated by Precision Air, Tanzania's largest private airline - crashed near the shore of the lake.

:sad:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63540823

A320LGW

7th Nov 2022, 16:36

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63540823That sounds like a horrific series of events and the stuff of nightmares for any pilot. Whilst not entirely clear, I'm imagining the entire cockpit to have become submerged (and likely filling with water from the FWD hold/cabin) and they were unable to open the emergency escape hatch above. It does open inwards though. If opened the force of the water rushing in would somehow need to be overcome. Even if not called away, how would this fisherman have generated enough force by waving an axe or any object under water? Very difficult to generate the forces required to smash a cockpit with the water resistance I'd imagine.

PCTool

7th Nov 2022, 20:47

Really horrific. The crash axe is normally behind the FO seat low down near the gear pins (on 72-600). With oxy masks on and full of water, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to retrieve. Terribly sad.

NutLoose

7th Nov 2022, 23:28

When the pilots are on oxygen is the hose long enough to stand up and reach the hatch?, it is probably not a situation that had been considered in the design. Same goes for the crash axe location.

A320LGW

8th Nov 2022, 08:55

When the pilots are on oxygen is the hose long enough to stand up and reach the hatch?, it is probably not a situation that had been considered in the design. Same goes for the crash axe location.I don't believe it is. The jumpseat oxygen pipe however is built longer so the jumpseater can go and tackle fire in the fwd hold if need be.

ATC Watcher

8th Nov 2022, 09:00

A320LGW (https://www.pprune.org/members/466396-a320lgw)
they were unable to open the emergency escape hatch above. It does open inwards though.
The AR42 hatch opens inwards ? if so does it has an hinge on one side. ? If not you indeed could be knocked out due of the water pressure. when trying to open it
. A terrible story . :(

ZFT

8th Nov 2022, 09:14

I don't believe it is. The jumpseat oxygen pipe however is built longer so the jumpseater can go and tackle fire in the fwd hold if need be.
I don't recall there being any difference between the O2 masks across the flight deck

krismiler

8th Nov 2022, 09:19

Flight deck oxygen masks aren’t meant for use underwater but the 100% oxygen setting may have given something breathable for a while.

Storm cells suggest the possibility of a microburst. A sudden change to the wind component or being right underneath the descending air could easily exceed the aircraft’s performance available to recover.

A decision to hold or divert could have changed this tragic accident into a slight delay or minor inconvenience.

Trim Stab

8th Nov 2022, 10:03

:sad:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63540823

That sounds a likely tale...

So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar....

DaveReidUK

8th Nov 2022, 12:43

That sounds a likely tale...

So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar....

The fuselage was only a few feet under water, so it's entirely possible that the fisherman in question could get close enough to the flight deck windows to be able to see and communicate with the occupants.

As for the reported role of the locals in rescuing passengers, the fact that 24 lived, and the interviews with the survivors both seem perfectly consistent with that.

Uplinker

8th Nov 2022, 14:04

@ Trim Stab; There are certain fishermen who use goggles to dive for fish or crustaceans. Could have been some of those guys.

Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.

ATC Watcher

8th Nov 2022, 16:49

Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.
TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do.

Afrijet

9th Nov 2022, 02:56

TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do.

this….also, “management” in Africa is sorely lacking. Punishment for adhering to safety standards is standard. I speak from experience. I can totally see some useless official with a road cone for a megaphone, “taking charge” and stopping rescue efforts.

Uplinker

9th Nov 2022, 09:31

Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.

ATC Watcher

9th Nov 2022, 13:26

Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....:E

Maninthebar

9th Nov 2022, 14:46

"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....:E

AIC - Also In Canada
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) (http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/aviation/2019/a19c0145/a19c0145.html)

ATC Watcher

9th Nov 2022, 16:31

AIC - Also In Canada
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca) (http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/aviation/2019/a19c0145/a19c0145.html)
Priceless thanks. Did not know. this indeed could have been in Africa. but the BIG difference between TIA and AIC is the last paragraph of the report :Regulatory surveillance is also on the TSB Watchlist and will remain on it until TC demonstrates through surveillance activity assessments that the new surveillance methodology is identifying non-compliances, and that TC is ensuring that a company returns to compliance in a timely fashion and is able to manage the safety of its operations. Following the occurrence, North Star Air implemented a flight operations quality assurance program. Additionally, in December 2020, TC conducted a PI focused on the evaluation and effectiveness of the long-term corrective action plan related to the flight operations findings from the December 2019 PI. TC concluded that the long-term corrective actions taken by North Star Air were effective.

A strong regulator is sadly missing is most countries in Africa.

krismiler

10th Nov 2022, 02:57

AWA = Africa Wins Again

MichaelOLearyGenius

11th Nov 2022, 12:39

DaveReidUK

11th Nov 2022, 15:13

If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.

It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).

Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door.

Afrijet

11th Nov 2022, 18:38

If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.

this is the most unrealistic suggestion this year. In addition to flying the plane, the crew now have to unlock an armored door that’s designed to prevent cockpit intrusion. Not only disarm, but crack it open? While potentially operating to minimums in hard ifr. Will the door opener get out of their seat to accomplish this task?

avionimc

12th Nov 2022, 09:35

It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door.
Indeed, after a collision at KUIN runways intersection between a landing Beechcraft 1900C, N87GL (United Express) and a departing King Air A90, N1127D.

The main entry/exit airstair door of the 1900C could not be opened, not by the people inside and not by the first responders outside.

Unanswered is why the overwing emergency exit on the LH side was not opened from outside by the first responders; or if they even tried or thought of the overwing hatch, that can be opened from the outside by pulling a flush mounted handle (the RH side of the 1900C was engulfed in fire).

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19961119-0

avionimc

12th Nov 2022, 12:05

If indeed the flight deck door was lockedNot sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.

FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public.

In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.).

armchairpilot94116

12th Nov 2022, 17:37

Not sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.

FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public.

In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.).

I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.

I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been.

sudden twang

13th Nov 2022, 08:38

I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.

I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been.

That’ll make life very difficult for commuting pilots where are your statistics for these deaths?
Might I humbly suggest you bang the FTL drum to reduce deaths?

MichaelOLearyGenius

13th Nov 2022, 18:09

this is the most unrealistic suggestion this year. In addition to flying the plane, the crew now have to unlock an armored door that’s designed to prevent cockpit intrusion. Not only disarm, but crack it open? While potentially operating to minimums in hard ifr. Will the door opener get out of their seat to accomplish this task?

I didn’t say crack the door, just disarm it, not the biggest task in the world. Happened to an air India cores 737. Captain went for a leak, on his return the FO turned the heading knob instead disarming the cockpit door. The captain remained locked out of the flight deck and the aircraft went into a continuous bank and eventual spiral dive and ended up inverted. The plane was recovered by the FO and landed safely but must have been terrifying for crew and pax. Just from memory so don’t quote me 100%. There is a distinct but rare chance the armoured door could get stuck locks in an emergency landing or fire in the cabin so why not open the cockpit locks during landing checks? Yes flight decks also have emergency ropes and escape hatches, depending on type, but having the main cockpit door available also adds a level of redundancy for escape from the cabin.

DaveReidUK

13th Nov 2022, 20:26

Happened to an air India cores 737. Captain went for a leak, on his return the FO turned the heading knob instead disarming the cockpit door. The captain remained locked out of the flight deck and the aircraft went into a continuous bank and eventual spiral dive and ended up inverted. The plane was recovered by the FO and landed safely but must have been terrifying for crew and pax. Just from memory so don’t quote me 100%.

That sounds like a very confused amalgam of several historical accidents.

If it happened as described, Air India did a very good job of keeping it quiet, given that you don't roll an airliner inverted without injuring passengers and/or crew.

punkalouver

13th Nov 2022, 20:43

I might be getting aircraft mixed up....but didn't the ATR have a kick out panel at the bottom of the door(could be a particular door manufacturer) in case the door is jammed or is it on a different aircraft type?

Either way, it seemed like a good idea.

Liffy 1M

18th Mar 2023, 19:22

The Aviation Herald has details of the preliminary report, which seems to have been issued recently. https://avherald.com/h?article=500a5725&opt=0

ATC Watcher

19th Mar 2023, 11:02

Here is the link to the report : report (http://avherald.com/files/precision_at42_5h-pwf_bukoba_preliminary_report.pdf)

Main points , attempting to land well below minima in VFR ( that we knew) , Captain (PF) was the chief pilot of the airline , 64, paired with a 45 years old F/O , CPL with 2000h ..ignoring GPWS calls...continuing descending with 1500 ft/min.

A question for the techies,: the props were in "almost feathered positon" , due to the impact ?

pattern_is_full

19th Mar 2023, 14:57

A question for the techies,: the props were in "almost feathered positon" , due to the impact ?

Could be.

Or it could be they were set that way (either by the pilots, or an automated NTS system) to avoid "negative torque." Very roughly and oversimplified, an analog to "engine braking" in a piston engine - the prop (or vehicle wheels) driving the engine, instead the other 'way around, at low power/throttle settings and higher airspeeds. The reduction gearing in TP's (which converts turbine rpms of 10000-20000 to prop revs of 1500-2000) "doesn't like" being driven front-to-back (negative torque).

Moving the pitch of the prop blades towards 90° (feathered) reduces how much backwards torque is applied to the engine shafts and reduction gears, from the prop spinning in a high-speed slipstream like a child's pinwheel in the breeze.

https://skybrary.aero/articles/negative-torque-sensing-nts-system

Negative torque can be produced by any low-power condition in the turbine - sometimes an actual engine failure, but also simply low throttle/power-lever settings. And the specific effects and limits can be different for different specific engine types.

Bottom line - there are limits to how much power can be reduced in a TP engine if one is trying to get down quickly at a high airspeed, by reducing power (fuel flow). The reason TPs have "flight idle" and "ground idle" settings.

43Inches

21st Mar 2023, 06:27

Modern free turbine turboprops don't have NTS protection as such. The ATR has overspeed protection through the PEC which will eventually flame out the engine eventually if a certain RPM is reached. That is it just moves the blade angle coarser until it reaches the high pitch stops (78ish degrees) and then prop RPM will increase until the overspeed protection kicks in. More likely the near feathered prop feathered when it hit the water and failed, or the impact at high rpm forced it there, the other prop would not feather as part of the autofeather logic as that engine impacted and failed hence it was half travel or so.

At the speed this ATR was travelling as well as being configured the prop would be well within the normal operating range.

Because of this during fault finding you should be setting a low torque above flight idle position to simulate zero thrust if its not an actual failure, otherwise the prop will generate a lot of drag from 'windmilling'.