British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

[Standby98]

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has some information about what to expect on the first assessment day for BA or has been to one recently? From some research online I can see it usually consists of a group exercise, interview, numerical and verbal reasoning and some pilot aptitude tests, but im not sure how up to date this information is. Apologies if there is already a thread discussing this but I could not find an up to date one. Thanks

[mnask]

Hi,

Looking for the same info as Standby98 got upcoming interview any help would be much appreciated.

[thetimesreader84]

So my info may be out of date, but when I interviewed in 2018 the group exercise was 8 candidates around a table with a pack of info (each subtly different) given 30 mins to make a decision on what to do with a BA route to a fictional carribean island - change aircraft, add frequency, pull out all together etc. 5 mins before time there's a. "Urgent email just come in". Obviously it's not about the decision (although its a good idea to decide something!) its about how you work together.

Interview was with a BA pilot & HR person. 50/50 split between "give an example of a time when..." questions and CV walk through and company knowledge.

The rest of the aptitude tests etc I think have changed so I doubt I could give any useful information.

Hopefully this might get you started until someone else can give you more accurate info.

[swervin'mervin]

I too interviewed quite a while ago, sounded like the above example. Not sure if they still do it but there was a capacity test, computer based with headset - frequency changes, dct to's, altitudes, headings, descent level by ### using v/s and groundspeed, ecam type actions, systems management, routine monitoring, priority tasks getting busier and busier and busier (was quite fun tbh!), try and zone out from the other candidates master warnings going off! I'm sure they tell you what to expect on the invite?

[flyflyfly2009]

Another one here looking for any current information on what to expect from the computer based aptitude tests. Thanks in advance and good luck to all.

[Ancient Observer]

For the "give an example of a time when...." type of question, these are called Behavioural Event Interviews.
Google is your friend.

One google search revealed...............

https://www.themartec.com/insidelook/behavioral-interview-questions

[matt_wizz]

Same here - following!

Thanks

[Byrne11]

Has anyone heard of friends/colleagues thus far being offered anything other than the 320?

[Busdriver01]

There are an awful lot of unfrozen FOs on the 320, with valid bids to long haul, so I doubt there will be many long haul offers any time soon. (obviously maybe a few due to training capacity on short haul but i wouldn't hold your breath for it).

[A320LGW]

There are an awful lot of unfrozen FOs on the 320, with valid bids to long haul, so I doubt there will be many long haul offers any time soon. (obviously maybe a few due to training capacity on short haul but i wouldn't hold your breath for it).So even if boeing rated either x000 hrs they'll still put you on the 320?

[Busdriver01]

So even if boeing rated either x000 hrs they'll still put you on the 320?

yep - posting and promotions is done initially on the internal bid which is seniority based, and only when there are no valid internal bids (ie everyone who is unfrozen and who bid for a different seat has been given a course) will they recruit on longhaul.

(in reality its a bit more nuanced than that but thats the general aim, at least. previous type matters not at BA - seniority is king).

[A320LGW]

yep - posting and promotions is done initially on the internal bid which is seniority based, and only when there are no valid internal bids (ie everyone who is unfrozen and who bid for a different seat has been given a course) will they recruit on longhaul. (in reality its a bit more nuanced than that but thats the general aim, at least. previous type matters not at BA - seniority is king).OK cheers, it does make it less appealing for any potential joiner who's built a lot of boeing hrs, especially on a widebody

[wiggy]

So even if boeing rated either x000 hrs they'll still put you on the 320?

Agreements may have changed since I left but historically if all long haul vacancies could be filled by (unfrozen) internal bidders from short haul then BA would convert those pilots and fill the resulting gaps in the short haul ranks by recruiting externally, which by definition ATM means onto Airbus. So yes, somebody very Boeing rated could end up being offered the 320.

Direct Boeing/Long Haul from external sources only tended to be offered when the training system couldn't cope with a large number of internal transfers and new joiners.

All the above open to correction by those more in the know.

[thetimesreader84]

I heard a rumour from a 320 trainer they're expecting "about 50" DEP onto the 777 as if they "backfill all the 320 FOs who should leave this year, the CAA could ground us as the experience levels (on the 320) would be too low". I'd be surprised but you never know.

Fortunately there aren't any 320 FOs in BALPA any more so that's one less thing for them to worry about!

[Busdriver01]

OK cheers, it does make it less appealing for any potential joiner who's built a lot of boeing hrs, especially on a widebody

Less appealing in your current situation, perhaps, but with BA you have to accept (preferably before joining) that it's a seniority based airline and that everything is done that way. When you get passed over for your valid 777 to 787 bid because they decided to hire someone already current on the 787, you'll not be best pleased. etc. Seems archaic or frustrating at first, but moving from a non-seniority airline to a seniority airline, its the only fair way to do it.

[Byrne11]

Less appealing in your current situation, perhaps, but with BA you have to accept (preferably before joining) that it's a seniority based airline and that everything is done that way. When you get passed over for your valid 777 to 787 bid because they decided to hire someone already current on the 787, you'll not be best pleased. etc. Seems archaic or frustrating at first, but moving from a non-seniority airline to a seniority airline, its the only fair way to do it.


I must say this isn’t news to me. I guess this is the unanswerable questions as it’s quite fluid but how long would you expect to wait on average to progress on to any widebody Airbus or Boeing? im a TRI on a Boeing, albeit I’ll fly a C172 to leave my current company. Just curious how long before I would get to try LH.

[Busdriver01]

I must say this isn’t news to me. I guess this is the unanswerable questions as it’s quite fluid but how long would you expect to wait on average to progress on to any widebody Airbus or Boeing? im a TRI on a Boeing, albeit I’ll fly a C172 to leave my current company. Just curious how long before I would get to try LH.

The freeze onto a new type is either 5 or 6 years now (used to be 5, may have gone up to 6, i'm not actually sure), so don't expect any move within that time. Exception is if BA need you on a different fleet, they'll waive the freeze and move you.

[balpalover69]

I must say this isn’t news to me. I guess this is the unanswerable questions as it’s quite fluid but how long would you expect to wait on average to progress on to any widebody Airbus or Boeing? im a TRI on a Boeing, albeit I’ll fly a C172 to leave my current company. Just curious how long before I would get to try LH.

Anyone who attends an assessment and listens is told to expect 5-6 years...

[New_Pilot]

Hi All,

Are there any updates from those who had their most recent interview with BA? I have an assessment coming up and any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you in advance:D

[Phantom4]

There is a box on sim assessment paperwork to be ticked if the candidate has requisite hours and the assessors deems him/her suitable for long haul.

[Cessnaflieshigher]

Dear All,

Are there any updates from those who had their most recent interview with BA that took place on 25th? Any information about start dates.

Thank you in advance

[Phantom4]

Euroflyer sim ride now in 744.
Requirement 50 per month
777 Commands down to 2000 on Master Seniority List

[GS-Alpha]

777 Commands down to 2000 on Master Seniority List
Which is more like mid 1500s in reality, because they have not updated the list to take account of retirements and redundancies for many years now.

[Phantom4]

1986 on the list is most junior 777

[swervin'mervin]

How big is the seniority list right now? (And.... can anyone explain how the roster bidding system works in a nutshell?!)

[White Van Driver]

How big is the seniority list right now? (And.... can anyone explain how the roster bidding system works in a nutshell?!)
estimated right now 3900 on the list.
however our current numbers go up to 4700 or so because as mentioned earlier, the numbers haven't been updated since pre covid (2019 iirc).

roster bidding in a nutshell:
you put together Your bid through a number of algorithmic commands. It gives you 8 "buckets" to put all the trips into, which you have to achieve within 40(?) commands. The top bucket is the trips you really want to do. The bottom bucket is the trips you really want to avoid. It helps to be a computer programmer to use the company system, but we have a 3rd party app that makes it much easier a small charge. So you can choose anything you like - destination, flight number, days off, region, report time, 2/3/4 pilot trips, right down to a single flight that your mate is going to be on.

The computer then crunches the numbers, and comes out with the best roster for pilot#1,. and so on down the list until the very bottom. Needless to say, by the time the system gets to the bottom pilots it only has unpopular trips on unpopular days - but it still does it's best.

Then, because the system inevitably hasn't covered 99.5% of the work, it unlocks all the rosters and messes then up again to squeeze more work in.... recently this process has been messing up the rosters right the way to the top of the list.

once these processes are all complete the rosters are published. Once that happens it's all but written in stone.

I honestly can't complain. I'm very junior on my fleet (LH, >95% off the top) and even I get some variety. I get most of the days off I need (unless they are weekends but we have 6 "golden days" a year to guarantee days off way in advance for birthdays, anniversaries, weddings etc). I never knew the old system so can't compare but it works well enough for me considering my position as a bottom feeder.

that's not really the promised nutshell... but the bidding system is a type rating all on its own!

edit to add the rosters are normally published around 7th to 10th for the following month with a sneak preview available a few days earlier.

[swervin'mervin]

estimated right now 3900 on the list.
however our current numbers go up to 4700 or so because as mentioned earlier, the numbers haven't been updated since pre covid (2019 iirc).

roster bidding in a nutshell:
you put together Your bid through a number of algorithmic commands. It gives you 8 "buckets" to put all the trips into, which you have to achieve within 40(?) commands. The top bucket is the trips you really want to do. The bottom bucket is the trips you really want to avoid. It helps to be a computer programmer to use the company system, but we have a 3rd party app that makes it much easier a small charge. So you can choose anything you like - destination, flight number, days off, region, report time, 2/3/4 pilot trips, right down to a single flight that your mate is going to be on.

The computer then crunches the numbers, and comes out with the best roster for pilot#1,. and so on down the list until the very bottom. Needless to say, by the time the system gets to the bottom pilots it only has unpopular trips on unpopular days - but it still does it's best.

Then, because the system inevitably hasn't covered 99.5% of the work, it unlocks all the rosters and messes then up again to squeeze more work in.... recently this process has been messing up the rosters right the way to the top of the list.

once these processes are all complete the rosters are published. Once that happens it's all but written in stone.

I honestly can't complain. I'm very junior on my fleet (LH, >95% off the top) and even I get some variety. I get most of the days off I need (unless they are weekends but we have 6 "golden days" a year to guarantee days off way in advance for birthdays, anniversaries, weddings etc). I never knew the old system so can't compare but it works well enough for me considering my position as a bottom feeder.

that's not really the promised nutshell... but the bidding system is a type rating all on its own!


Perfect thanks

[Phantom4]

Interview Group and Capacity on one day.
Sim slots released for day two.
Result can be next day and allow for three months notice

[kendrick47247]

Interview Group and Capacity on one day.
Sim slots released for day two.
Result can be next day and allow for three months notice

Result almost certainly will not be next day.

offer does not necessarily allow for three months notice; request can and have been made to reduce as much as possible

[Alrosa]

So what join dates can candidates be expected to be offered for LHR recruitment? I’d heard on the grapevine no one would be starting before the end of summer 2023 ?

[eagle21]

Rumours of BA Cityflyer joining the BA mainline MSL to allow for a posible order of E195-E2s with over 134 seats (beyond scope agreement) and to address retention issues.

[thetimesreader84]

Rumours of BA Cityflyer joining the BA mainline MSL to allow for a posible order of E195-E2s with over 134 seats (beyond scope agreement) and to address retention issues.

It wouldn't surprise me. It's been on BAs radar for a while, and I think there was a clause in the covid agreement to relax scope to allow CF to get Embraer or C-Series to sell them a jet (the current 195s are a special model only certified for 99 seats to comply with scope extra $$$ on the price).

With Euro Flyer on the MSL, i cant see balpa batting it away forever - expect it to be sold off for an extra 2" on the long haul pre departure sandwiches and lots of "fantastic news! Well done Balpa!" Type posts on the forum.

[RogueOne]

What does the capacity test look like, any tips?

If I remember rightly last I heard it was some ATC instructions you had to retype, maybe some number calculations, and also some systems that needed monitoring..

Any advice here or on PM appreciated.

Thanks,

[Phantom4]

Read the brief slowly,do not skip.
understand your responses required.
do not rush this part.

[Phantom4]

Ability test is same a capacity test.You have a long list of instructions to make the correct input.
Read this carefully,the invigilator will emphasise that once you finish,to sit and wait until everyone has finished.
Someone close to me was last to finish as they had read the instructions slowly and carefully.
Result,positive

[Phantom4]

People telling me they have Feb 23

[Standby98]

Hi, does anyone have any advice for the sim assessment? What to expect? Any comments are greatly appreciated

[Phantom4]

Four hours,two candidates,A-B,B-C divert.
744

[CaptainCroft]

How long did it take from the Interview day till you get an answer for sim dates?

[garethkeenan]

How long did it take from the Interview day till you get an answer for sim dates?

Not long at all.

[CaptainCroft]

I just did my interview on the 14th December and no one really mentioned when to expect a result. So just wondering if you know how long it took yours or anyones to get a reply in terms of days.

[Phantom4]

Someone last week,Sim Wednesday,phone call Thursday morning,course March.

[Deporflyer]

I just did my interview on the 14th December and no one really mentioned when to expect a result. So just wondering if you know how long it took yours or anyones to get a reply in terms of days.
Hi! Can you please share a light on the assessment process? Type of questions? ETC. Many thanks!

[clvf88]

Does anyone know of any LH offers or is it all 320?

[Byrne11]

Does anyone know of any LH offers or is it all 320?

From colleagues who have went recently they were told 320. All had thousands of hours Boeing experience for what it’s worth.

[Smooth Airperator]

Assessors are going around looking at LinkedIn profiles. Make sure yours is squeaky clean :O

[Iflyplane]

Has anyone who had an interview last week, heard anything back yet?

[justinPOF]

Interview 12th, sim invite email 16th. Sim dates available at the time 20 and 24 Dec but unable to attend on those days - no new dates seen since.

JPOF

[Iflyplane]

Has anyone gone recently to the sim? Any feedback? Got mine next month 😅 Cheers

[srjumbo747]

What’s the current pay scale and pension contributions for DEP please?

[ItsonlyMeagain]

Morning

Been meaning to ask since this thread opened. Direct Entry Pilot…..?

I am familiar with the term and have even been a Direct Entry Captain (DEC). Here the pilot joins as a Captain, leapfrogging all first officers already employed. However, Direct Entry Pilot? How else do you join?

I’m sure someone will tell me.

Me

[clvf88]

Morning

Been meaning to ask since this thread opened. Direct Entry Pilot…..?

I am familiar with the term and have even been a Direct Entry Captain (DEC). Here the pilot joins as a Captain, leapfrogging all first officers already employed. However, Direct Entry Pilot? How else do you join?

I’m sure someone will tell me.

Me

Granted its a bit weird - I guess harks back to the days when new entrants would be via the cadet programme.

For what its worth - DECs don't leap frog anyone. They will always be junior to existing FOs in the company. They're simply filling LHS positions that no one currently in the company has bid for.

[Busdriver01]

BA has DECs, DEPs and TEPs - Direct Entry Captains (rarely hired at mainline, though), Direct Entry Pilots and Trainee Entry Pilots. It's just a phrase used to distinguish a pilot who is qualified and experienced (and so joins directly on the Co-Pilot pay scales) and a trainee who requires a full type rating and significantly more line training, joining on the cadet pilot scales.

[Confusious]

Rumours of BA Cityflyer joining the BA mainline MSL to allow for a posible order of E195-E2s with over 134 seats (beyond scope agreement) and to address retention issues.
Does anyone else think that if this happens then BACF would have a perpetual recruitment problem?

[VariablePitchP]

Does anyone else think that if this happens then BACF would have a perpetual recruitment problem?

The opposite?

[bylgw]

Possibility: New entrants will be directed to CitiFlyer or EuroFlyer before being allowed to bid to the dangled mainline carrot.

[Confusious]

Does anyone else think that if this happens then BACF would have a perpetual recruitment problem?

The opposite?
I have a few friends there who are in the top half of the BACF seniority list and they have would bid straight into a long haul command. Training Captains and Management Pilots included. How would they be replaced?

Also, if I had sat it out in Mainline waiting for a long haul command then I would be a little peeved to get pushed back down the ladder.

BALPA will be piggy in the middle with this one.

[Confusious]

Possibility: New entrants will be directed to CitiFlyer or EuroFlyer before being allowed to bid to the dangled mainline carrot.
It would have to be a no assessment rise to the almighty Big Airways because most BACF pilots do not jump through the traditional hoops successfully and then join other operators.

[kendrick47247]

I have a few friends there who are in the top half of the BACF seniority list and they have would bid straight into a long haul command. Training Captains and Management Pilots included. How would they be replaced?

Also, if I had sat it out in Mainline waiting for a long haul command then I would be a little peeved to get pushed back down the ladder.

BALPA will be piggy in the middle with this one.

Date of joining =/= Seniority

What makes you think any CF pilot would leapfrog anyone? Given the previous unpalatable situation of the BMI joiners…

[Confusious]

Rumours of BA Cityflyer joining the BA mainline MSL to allow for a posible order of E195-E2s with over 134 seats (beyond scope agreement) and to address retention issues.

Date of joining =/= Seniority

What makes you think any CF pilot would leapfrog anyone? Given the previous unpalatable situation of the BMI joiners…
I didn't start the PPRuNe rumour, see above 'Cityflyer joining the BA mainline MSL'. None of my friends have heard about this rumour BTW, so it could be a bit of wishful thinking by eagle21. Anyway, if you'd given 20 to 30 years service flying in the BA livery before and including CityFlyer would you accept being tagged onto the bottom of the list just so that BA could scrap the Scope Agreement? I wouldn't and I'd expect BALPA to fight my corner as I would if I were one of the Mainline pilots on the brink of a long haul command. CityFlyer pilots hold the trump card should a battle commence.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Possibility: New entrants will be directed to CitiFlyer or EuroFlyer before being allowed to bid to the dangled mainline carrot.

As far as I am aware those who applied for mainline and were successful have been offered mainline. Those who were successful for mainline but ticked the Euroflyer box have been offered the choice of either.

[sudden twang]

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?

[3Greens]

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?
not even close

[Confusious]

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?

not even close
I suggest that you do some more homework. Prior to 2007 when the new CityFlyer was formed, there were several companies within which the CityFlyer pilots were employed. I'm not going to name them nor indeed tell you which ones were BA franchisees or wholly owned as all will be evident to you with a quick Google search. So, yes they do have sufficient seniority for a long haul command and they are definitely going to bid for them should the list be merged. As I said, wouldn't you?

[sudden twang]

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?

[Confusious]

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?
The clue is probably in Wikipedia and yes to your question.

[Confusious]

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?
And directly beneath the eligible long haul command bidders is a long list of short haul command and senior first officer wannabes. This has the potential to cause mayhem in many ways.

[sudden twang]

I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.

BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?

There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.

Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂

[Confusious]

I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.

BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?

There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.

Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂
I have no skin in this either and nope was not a Brymon laddie. 😉

Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.

I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.

[kendrick47247]

I have no skin in this either and nope was not a Brymon laddie. 😉

Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.

I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you

[Confusious]

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you
Put the brakes on......look back and you'll see that I didn't start the rumour here. You'll also see that I said that none of my friends in BACF have heard of this rumour.

[thetimesreader84]

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you

Unlike Confusious, I have heard this rumour, from an ex Balpa Rep who still had "fingers in the pie". I (SH FO) heard it late last year (just after the annual bid closed, which was a bit frustrating).

Essentially, BA will "pay" BALPA an amount that they think putting BACF on the msl is "worth". BALPA can then use that "money" to get concessions elsewhere - at the time, getting rid of the "Delta" was one example. BA are keen to do it as they think it'll help recruitment to BACF, BALPA are reluctant for reasons outlined above, but are struggling to justify refusal when they already allow EuroFlyer access, and the "money" would go quite a long way allegedly.

Personally I can see another BALPA stitch up coming down the track, where my career aspirations are cast aside again in favour of an extra 0.5% pension for PP24 LH Captains. It bears repeating that if you're PP34, SH, or an FO with less than about 8 years service, you arent even on BALPA's radar.

[sudden twang]

Confuscious

Laddie?

Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).

You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.

But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.

tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?

[Treestripe]

Hey peeps I’m wondering if anyone like me has a course start date for BA Heathrow in Feb?

If so fancy dropping me a DM - I have a few questions.

Cheers

[Confusious]

Confuscious

Laddie?

Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).

You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.

But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.

tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?
ST, you're way off the mark, but I take full responsibility for leading you that way. 😉

Your desire to be a fly on the wall is a little disconcerting. If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command course I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her. The lessons of CRM should put aside any instinct to ward off perceived predators from their close knit family.

Anyway, I can 100% assure you that I have no personal interest in this, but as said before I do have a number of long standing friends at CityFlyer, as I do Mainline. The rumour has found its way into BACF which of course could be the power of PPRuNE.

Off topic, the legendary PA38 Tomahawk with the spin characteristics of a demon, nevertheless a great little trainer.

Yes, anyone thinking of joining BA then definitely do it sooner rather than later. As you can read from this thread, seniority is king.

Whatever the outcome to the rumours, what matters above anything is happiness at work and safe flying.

[Max Angle]

If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her.
The few grown ups might welcome him but the other 99% most certainly would not.

[Confusious]

The few grown ups might welcome him but the other 99% most certainly would not.
Aww bless them, they'll soon get over it when they do some basic arithmetic. The hypothetical 'Captain Manx' having joined up in the mid eighties must surely be due to expire as a threat.

[GS-Alpha]

I have a few friends there who are in the top half of the BACF seniority list and they have would bid straight into a long haul command.

I cannot see any scenario where that would happen. The scope agreement is there to protect BA pilots. If the rumour is true, BA wants to fly bigger aircraft using a subsidiary’s pilots. There is no negotiation required with the subsidiary or it’s pilots. As far as I am aware, the question would purely be about whether BA pilots allow the subsidiary to operate the flights. If part of those negotiations involves the subsidiary’s pilots gaining a BA seniority number, they would join the bottom of the list, so no leapfrogging of current BA pilots could occur.

[Confusious]

I cannot see any scenario where that would happen. The scope agreement is there to protect BA pilots. If the rumour is true, BA wants to fly bigger aircraft using a subsidiary’s pilots. There is no negotiation required with the subsidiary or it’s pilots. As far as I am aware, the question would purely be about whether BA pilots allow the subsidiary to operate the flights. If part of those negotiations involves the subsidiary’s pilots gaining a BA seniority number, they would join the bottom of the list, so no leapfrogging of current BA pilots could occur.
But surely if BA wishes to equip Cityflyer with 100+ seat aircraft then the Scope Agreement would become null and void? You can't just shred a part of the agreement that best suits you and leave the rest intact. That's why the original poster of this rumour put it one here I'm guessing.

[Jet Set Willie]

On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.

[Confusious]

On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
Since when did Scope become airport specific?

[kendrick47247]

On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.

Spot on!

This cityflyer rumour has been doing the rounds for years already.

[Captain Spam Can]

A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?

[Max Angle]

The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior
Actually the 380 was the junior fleet this year, after the way the 747 pilots were handled during covid it is not considered a safe
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet

Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.

[Confusious]

A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
Now that's a coincidence because I've heard a similar rumour. Apparently, Transair has sold out of Embraer 190 Flight Sim add on packages after seeing a huge demand from BA long haul Senior First Officers getting a heads up on the challenges of steep approaches prior to their command courses.

[Cuillin Hills]

It would have to be a no assessment rise to the almighty Big Airways because most BACF pilots do not jump through the traditional hoops successfully and then join other operators.

This sort of comment makes me laugh - arrogance at the highest level.

I have seen some excellent ex-colleagues join Big Airways over the last 30 years - and I have seen others pass selection who were (to put it politely) not a loss to their previous employer!

[GS-Alpha]

JSW, I used the word subsidiary simply because BACF is a BA subsidiary and the scope agreement applies to BA subsidiaries. I wasn’t suggesting there aren’t any BA subsidiaries flying greater than 100 seat capacity aircraft.

I’m enjoying the sim prep banter. Comedy gold.

[kendrick47247]

Now that's a coincidence because I've heard a similar rumour. Apparently, Transair has sold out of Embraer 190 Flight Sim add on packages after seeing a huge demand from BA long haul Senior First Officers getting a heads up on the challenges of steep approaches prior to their command courses.

Ah the real trolling begins.

[Confusious]

This sort of comment makes me laugh - arrogance at the highest level.

I have seen some excellent ex-colleagues join Big Airways over the last 30 years - and I have seen others pass selection who were (to put it politely) not a loss to their previous employer!
Making people laugh is a good quality, thank you kindly.

You've just discredited the whole BA selection process in one sentence. All the hoops are put in place to ensure that they only get the crème de la crème and not the cast-offs that inferior airlines are delighted to pass onto them (to put it politely).

Ah the real trolling begins.
Definition
Trolling is when someone post or comments online to deliberately upset others. In short: Trolling is when someone deliberately tries to upset others online.

If you're upset then you do have the option to unsubscribe from this thread.

[Captain Spam Can]

Actually the 380 was the junior fleet this year, after the way the 747 pilots were handled during covid it is not considered a safe
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet

Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.

Hypothetically speaking if someone joined BA fairly recently say<10 years, would they be more junior than a city flyer pilot with >10 years on the master seniority list?
I ask as if BA merged an airline every 10 years you could effectively go backwards on a seniority list for decades, hence why I ask how it was done when BMI integrated.

[Confusious]

Hypothetically speaking if someone joined BA fairly recently say<10 years, would they be more junior than a city flyer pilot with >10 years on the master seniority list?
I ask as if BA merged an airline every 10 years you could effectively go backwards on a seniority list for decades, hence why I ask how it was done when BMI integrated.
That's a very valid question CSC, hopefully we'll get some sensible answers soon.

[GS-Alpha]

The chance of BACF length of service giving equivalent ‘slotted in’ seniority for the purposes of fleet moves, at any point in the future is NIL. (Hopefully that is clear enough). As for it happening with any future merger with another company? It didn’t happen when Cityflyer merged back in the early 2000s, and it didn’t happen with the BMI merger - but it depends what is negotiated at the time. The only thing that did happen with BMI, was an agreement giving limited grandfather rights for a small number of long haul commands each year, on the most junior long haul fleet. This was a reflection of BMI’s limited number of long haul hulls pre-merger (but that won’t apply to BACF anyway). Once on that most junior long haul fleet, they remain at the bottom of the seniority until a more junior BA pilot gets their command on the fleet (which I think probably means - until they retire).

[GS-Alpha]

Joining the BA master seniority list does not mean merging with it. These days, during company mergers (something which I highly doubt is on the cards with BACF), the law requires that as far as possible, no worker in either company is unfairly disadvantaged. BACF pilots obtaining long haul command positions ahead of current BA pilots would be a massive disadvantage to the BA pilots and a massive advantage to BACF pilots, and so it just isn’t going to happen. The law would not allow it.

[Confusious]

Joining the BA master seniority list does not mean merging with it. These days, during company mergers (something which I highly doubt is on the cards with BACF), the law requires that as far as possible, no worker in either company is unfairly disadvantaged. BACF pilots obtaining long haul command positions ahead of current BA pilots would be a massive disadvantage to the BA pilots and a massive advantage to BACF pilots, and so it just isn’t going to happen. The law would not allow it.
So on that basis of legal protection, does that mean that current BA pilots would also be excluded from bidding onto the new Embraers as commanders which would essentially leapfrog any eligible BACF First Officers?

Other than TUPE my knowledge of employment protection associated with mergers is limited. Are you able to post a link to the legislation that would cover seniority based advantages?

[GS-Alpha]

The apparent rumour is not even suggesting a merger so continuously asking questions as if it is, is just scaremongering, but yes as I have already said, in a merger scenario I would expect the other company’s pilots to be protected too.

[Confusious]

The apparent rumour is not even suggesting a merger so continuously asking questions as if it is, is just scaremongering, but yes as I have already said, in a merger scenario I would expect the other company’s pilots to be protected too.
GS, I am neither scaremongering nor seeking an argument just a level headed debate. It was you who first brought the merger word into the mix 'These days, during company mergers'.

Anyway, let's just see what unfolds during the forthcoming months. In the meantime happy and safe flying to you all!

Ohh, and apologies to the wannabees on here whose thread was trashed by me and others after it went off piste. You all probably couldn't care less about any of it right now and skipped through it at >mach2.

[SpamCanDriver]

You've just discredited the whole BA selection process in one sentence. All the hoops are put in place to ensure that they only get the crème de la crème and not the cast-offs that inferior airlines are delighted to pass onto them


It's not discrediting the whole BA selection process, its stating a provable fact that no selection process is 100% successful.
Any airline no matter the selection has pilots that made it through the selection, but are far from the "ideal" the airline wants.

[RARA9]

I’m sorry but the BA selection is a joke , if you are looking to recruit a robot who can say the right things to HR then great.
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..

[Alrosa]

I’m sorry but the BA selection is a joke , if you are looking to recruit a robot who can say the right things to HR then great.
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..

I wouldn’t call the BA selection a “joke”, and I doubt anyone that has had to jump through the various hoops (in some cases, more than once) would call it a joke.

The post before yours sums it up nicely. Look at the “assessment process” used several times in the last few years to select the UK’s Prime Minister….but that’s a discussion for the pub…

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

I’m sorry but the BA selection is a joke , if you are looking to recruit a robot who can say the right things to HR then great.
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..

Certainly the argument that can be put forward is that the BA simulator element is far more thorough than many other operators - in essence comprising of an entirely raw data two sector LOFT exercise with very limited automatics permitted, on an unfamiliar type. In terms of seeing how people react when put under pressure and when overload/capacity limits are reached, it’s probably as good as you’re going to get without actively sleep depriving people. There is of course the issue that otherwise perfectly capable candidates who would potentially excel in the sim are filtered out by the earlier processes - which is of course a shame, but no different to any other operator.

Edited to add:

From my (very limited I must admit) understanding the current recruitment process has in fact been slimmed down, gone are the numerical and verbal reasoning elements “on the day”, having been replaced by an online element completed before the assessment day. This is an improvement in my opinion, although I am not a great fan of online tests and if I had to do them today I would probably fail spectacularly!

No interview and selection process is perfect; BA is no exception. Things may well have changed but certainly my recollection is of being pleasantly surprised that I wasn’t expected to recite chapter and verse of number of aircraft in different fleets or company history (well, not as specific questions anyway), very much more a “get to know you” and some competency based questions.

[FRYVA]

I’m sorry but the BA selection is a joke , if you are looking to recruit a robot who can say the right things to HR then great.
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..

Having worked there I would say it's genuinely the best selection process out there because believe it or not that's what they do want.

[RARA9]

Having worked there I would say it's genuinely the best selection process out there because believe it or not that's what they do want.

I have indeed also worked at BA for many years, I didn’t know it had changed so I stand corrected

[Phantom4]

Yes they do when you reach the sim assessment,two candidates over five hours

[Confusious]

I've failed the BA selection process 3 times in the past 20 years. Had another opportunity recently but I decided to pull out because I'm scarred by my previous experiences. BA's pre-simulator selection hoops are awful. Especially the interview which is just pretentious bo******. Every other airline job I've interviewed for (almost 10!) I've got the job. Such a shame, I act, talk and behave like your average Nigel and have wanted to fly red, white and blue all my life!
Pretentious and pompous sums it up and I've heard that many times. Here's the irony; BA CityFlyer pilots are all suitable to fly the Embraer into LCY and other CAT C airfields. All as a wholly owned subsidiary in the livery and uniforms of BA. However, their pilots have to jump through all the hoops if they wish to join the world's biggest flying club. Furthermore a lot of them get rejected which begs the question why are they allowed to return to CityFlyer as sub standard pilots? CE247, IMHO you are better off out of it.

[Alrosa]

A shame the thread has to be hijacked in this way by some thinly-disguised bitterness and/or insecurity.

The fact is BA flightcrew really aren’t that different to those flying elsewhere. I’ve found that the majority of disparaging remarks re BA pilots seem to have come from people that have in fact, never flown for BA….so I tend to take their views with a pinch of salt.

The BA interview that some seem to find issue with is pretty standard in the U.K. - mainly competency based questions and the usual why BA etc.

The assessment process is partly about weeding out folk who waltz into the recruitment centre believing they’re entitled to a job there …BA do not want this kind of person in their flightdecks.

The recruiters I’ve met have been very friendly and professional. That can’t be said for some of the airlines I’ve interviewed for in other countries.

The fact that some people don’t pass the BA assessment is not of course a reflection on the individual - but nor is it necessarily a sign that the assessment process itself is somehow flawed, and that only unpleasant individuals pass the assessment (complete rubbish in my experience). There are unpleasant individuals in every company and no, BA don’t have the monopoly on them.

[Confusious]

A shame the thread has to be hijacked in this way by some thinly-disguised bitterness and/or insecurity.

The fact is BA flightcrew really aren’t that different to those flying elsewhere. I’ve found that the majority of disparaging remarks re BA pilots seem to have come from people that have in fact, never flown for BA….so I tend to take their views with a pinch of salt.

The BA interview that some seem to find issue with is pretty standard in the U.K. - mainly competency based questions and the usual why BA etc.

The assessment process is partly about weeding out folk who waltz into the recruitment centre believing they’re entitled to a job there …BA do not want this kind of person in their flightdecks.

The recruiters I’ve met have been very friendly and professional. That can’t be said for some of the airlines I’ve interviewed for in other countries.

The fact that some people don’t pass the BA assessment is not of course a reflection on the individual - but nor is it necessarily a sign that the assessment process itself is somehow flawed, and that only unpleasant individuals pass the assessment (complete rubbish in my experience). There are unpleasant individuals in every company and no, BA don’t have the monopoly on them.
It's a shame that you are unwilling to accept that people have opinions which may not replicate yours. 'Hijacked' is a prime example of the pompousness that is referred to herein. You don't own this thread and should accept that it's a forum where people express their views.

I know a lot of pilots in BA, some are the nicest you could meet but others sadly fall into the category of being too far up their own backsides.

Nobody has come forward with an honest and logical answer to my question about CityFlyer pilots being allowed to continue flying the brand having been failed the BA selection process.

[SpamCanDriver]

It's a shame that you are unwilling to accept that people have opinions which may not replicate yours. 'Hijacked' is a prime example of the pompousness that is referred to herein. You don't own this thread and should accept that it's a forum where people express their views.

I know a lot of pilots in BA, some are the nicest you could meet but others sadly fall into the category of being too far up their own backsides.

Nobody has come forward with an honest and logical answer to my question about CityFlyer pilots being allowed to continue flying the brand having been failed the BA selection process.

Stating the thread has been highjacked is a statement of fact, not a display of arrogance.
Nobody owns this thread, but its a thread on BA DEP recruitment, not an evaluation of the selection process.

Not passing the BA selection does not mean that BA think the individuals are not competent or unsafe.
They're not employed by BA either, so i really dont understand your point.
Do you think BA ban all people who failed selection, working for outsourced services such as oustation ground staff?
BA audits Cityflyer to ensure compliance with its required standards

[Confusious]

Stating the thread has been highjacked is a statement of fact, not a display of arrogance.
Nobody owns this thread, but its a thread on BA DEP recruitment, not an evaluation of the selection process.

Not passing the BA selection does not mean that BA think the individuals are not competent or unsafe.
They're not employed by BA either, so i really dont understand your point.
Do you think BA ban all people who failed selection, working for outsourced services such as oustation ground staff?
BA audits Cityflyer to ensure compliance with its required standards
Actually BA pays their salaries directly so they do work for BA in every sense; flight numbers, uniforms, aircraft livery etc. etc...Now you're totally missing the meaning behind my question. To put it into simpler terms, what is an example of a substandard quality (selection process hoop(s) failure point) for BA that would be considered as an acceptable standard for CityFlyer and why?

Threads do drift, some more than others but this is at the very least loosely on piste.

[captain.weird]

Will they open up DEP again?

[Ancient Observer]

I am not a pilot, but I did work in Aviation.

I am a big fan of some properly tested Competency based interviews (CBIs) - when accompanied by appropriate technical interviews/tests.

What a lot of people do not realise is how much information they reveal about themselves in CBIs. Even if a candidate says little, the information is all usable.

CBIs might not be great for every candidate, but the properly tested CBIs are the best predictor of future performance.

[thetimesreader84]

To put it into simpler terms, what is an example of a substandard quality (selection process hoop(s) failure point) for BA that would be considered as an acceptable standard for CityFlyer and why?

I Really should stop biting, but...

I think someone further up suggested there's about 400 pilots at BACF (200 P1, 200P2). If all at the same base (I think EDI closed in the pandemic?), I reckon you'd not go much more that a year before flying with the same person - maybe 18 months max?

At BA SH theres currentcurrently 1400 pilots (700P1, 700P2), so almost double. I think when I joined it was 2 years before I flew with the same person twice. Even now its a comparative rarity.

Its a strage dynamic disappearing off for a 2-3-4 day multi sector tour with a guy youve just met, knowing youre likely to never see them again. Perhaps being a bad fit for that lifestyle could be a "substandard quality" that means you're not "good enough" for BA but more than acceptable for BACF?

[Confusious]

I Really should stop biting, but...

I think someone further up suggested there's about 400 pilots at BACF (200 P1, 200P2). If all at the same base (I think EDI closed in the pandemic?), I reckon you'd not go much more that a year before flying with the same person - maybe 18 months max?

At BA SH theres currentcurrently 1400 pilots (700P1, 700P2), so almost double. I think when I joined it was 2 years before I flew with the same person twice. Even now its a comparative rarity.

Its a strage dynamic disappearing off for a 2-3-4 day multi sector tour with a guy youve just met, knowing youre likely to never see them again. Perhaps being a bad fit for that lifestyle could be a "substandard quality" that means you're not "good enough" for BA but more than acceptable for BACF?
Has anyone out there got anything better than this to add as a credible answer to the question?

[VariablePitchP]

Has anyone out there got anything better than this to add as a credible answer to the question?

Presumably BA Mainline have more applicants for spaces than Cityflyer do, so can simply have the bar set higher. Failing the interview doesn’t mean you’re not a good fit by any means. It’s just that, on the day, you didn’t meet the bar, wherever market forces have deemed it to be set.

[Confusious]

Presumably BA Mainline have more applicants for spaces than Cityflyer do, so can simply have the bar set higher. Failing the interview doesn’t mean you’re not a good fit by any means. It’s just that, on the day, you didn’t meet the bar, wherever market forces have deemed it to be set.
That one makes a lot more sense, thank you VPP.

[RPat01]

Would anybody be able to elaborate on the new assessment process?

As I understand it, an online evaluation before attending Day 1.

What does day 1 consist of, and if successful, are you invited for day 2 the following day, or do you need to book a day 2 assessment online again?

I’ll be traveling from abroad, so I’d just like to get my ducks in a row before booking any assessments and having to change it later on.

Cheers!

[Alrosa]

Would anybody be able to elaborate on the new assessment process?

As I understand it, an online evaluation before attending Day 1.

What does day 1 consist of, and if successful, are you invited for day 2 the following day, or do you need to book a day 2 assessment online again?

I’ll be traveling from abroad, so I’d just like to get my ducks in a row before booking any assessments and having to change it later on.

Cheers!

As you imply, SHL tests completed online prior to attending assessment. Practise tests available on their website. Those get sent out about 5 or so days before you get to the new Day 1. Day 1 includes your interview, group exercise and the capacity test.

If you pass all that you get invited to book a date for the sim, which I guess is the the new Day 2.

The outcome from Day 1 gets sent out via email…i know for some people it has been as soon as the next day and for others it took 2 weeks to get the green light. If sim goes well you’ll be placed in a hold pool or offered a TR or OCC course as appropriate on the A320.

[Raph737]

Good afternoon all,

Does anyone know when/if they will reopen recruitment for mainline anytime soon? I would consider BA more seriously at that fleet, have reservations about the low salary at EF.

Advertisement for Euroflyer mentions a salary of up to £65K. What is the basic salary from that? Projections of time to command there for someone potentially joining with 1500hrs jet?

Thank you for your thoughts. 👍🏻

[CaptainCroft]

Good Evening all,

Has anyone who have recently been successful at the assessment get a start date for Euroflyer from the holding pool for Non-Type Rated ? I understand there were dates available for Type rating in February/March, anyone got anything in the months ahead?

[Moonraker4]

Hi Folks,

could anyone share some feedback on what’s coming up at the assessment day of the EF assessment, via this or even PM.

Appreciate any help in advance and best of luck to those applying.

[airspeed75]

Anyone non type-rated been called out of the pool for LHR recently?

Just wondering how long it is should one be successful at the simulator stage to actually getting the nod for a start date at the moment...

[CaptainCroft]

Anyone non type-rated been called out of the pool for LHR recently?

Just wondering how long it is should one be successful at the simulator stage to actually getting the nod for a start date at the moment...

how long have you been waiting currently ?

[airspeed75]

how long have you been waiting currently ?

I'm not!

I'm just researching what the future would entail should I attend a simulator and be successful, also wondering if folk are getting EF offers and not mainline.

[justinPOF]

Sim on a 13 Jan, email 17 Jan, phone call 18 Jan with offer of Apr start date iaw current notice period (NTR FO@LHR - declined at interview and sim any potential EF offers)

[Alrosa]

I suspect if not TR on the A32x, you’d be looking at a TR course no earlier than summer for LHR. Don’t hold me to that though. Once confirmed in the hold pool a kind soul might give you a slightly better idea. My understanding is if you only applied to LHR and didn’t tick yes to LGW, you won’t be offered LGW/EF.

Same advice I’d give to anyone applying for any other airline in the U.K. - don’t be handing in notices or making plans until you have a contract in your hand with a start date; expect a long and drawn out recruitment process with large gaps between applying, assessments and courses.

The only exception I can think of is Ryanair U.K. that want you on the line asap, and will process you very quickly. But this isn’t about them.

[Raph737]

I wonder how many are swimming and if LHR direct entry will reopen soon…anyone on the inside hear anything?
Considering the T&C’s Jet2 and TUI offer, they definitely need to up the financial package for EF or offer a fast upgrade option there.

[Confusious]

I wonder how many are swimming and if LHR direct entry will reopen soon…anyone on the inside hear anything?
Considering the T&C’s Jet2 and TUI offer, they definitely need to up the financial package for EF or offer a fast upgrade option there.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the carrots the possibility to bid into LHR, albeit further down the line?

[Raph737]

Apologies if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the carrots the possibility to bid into LHR, albeit further down the line?

You are absolutely right! But I’m not sure how is that going to work having a “parallel” operation and one master seniority list. I don’t know if it will be any different that the BA main + BACF deal. They can make these promises but historically they don’t keep them or there are caveats.

The package at EF is poor, should there be shortages at LHR they may be reluctant on transferring from EF as it’s difficult to recruit for EF. It happened the same at BACF so I’m rather sceptical. I could be wrong, but the fact that they needed roadshows at LTN(snatching Wizz and Ezy crew?)and the help from recruitment agencies (not cheap) suggests there aren’t enough applicants for EF.

They should open direct entry at LHR before any consideration in allowing transfers. Speculation I know, but that’s my two cents as an observer.

I think anyone who has the expectation that they are transferring to LHR after the fleet freeze in five years, don’t know what BA is about unfortunately.

[Confusious]

You are absolutely right! But I’m not sure how is that going to work having a “parallel” operation and one master seniority list. I don’t know if it will be any different that the BA main + BACF deal. They can make these promises but historically they don’t keep them or there are caveats.

The package at EF is poor, should there be shortages at LHR they may be reluctant on transferring from EF as it’s difficult to recruit for EF. It happened the same at BACF so I’m rather sceptical. I could be wrong, but the fact that they needed roadshows at LTN(snatching Wizz and Ezy crew?)and the help from recruitment agencies (not cheap) suggests there aren’t enough applicants for EF.

They should open direct entry at LHR before any consideration in allowing transfers. Speculation I know, but that’s my two cents as an observer.

I think anyone who has the expectation that they are transferring to LHR after the fleet freeze in five years, don’t know what BA is about unfortunately.
Valid points about BA changing the goalposts with Mainline/BACF. I guess it all hinges on whether anything is written into the EF contract either directly or implied regarding the reliability of BA's promises.

[Snr]

I suspect if not TR on the A32x, you’d be looking at a TR course no earlier than summer for LHR. Don’t hold me to that though. Once confirmed in the hold pool a kind soul might give you a slightly better idea. My understanding is if you only applied to LHR and didn’t tick yes to LGW, you won’t be offered LGW/EF.

Same advice I’d give to anyone applying for any other airline in the U.K. - don’t be handing in notices or making plans until you have a contract in your hand with a start date; expect a long and drawn out recruitment process with large gaps between applying, assessments and courses.

The only exception I can think of is Ryanair U.K. that want you on the line asap, and will process you very quickly. But this isn’t about them.

Not very long and drawn out for me - between assessment day in Dec, Sim, and phone call with the job offer was a total of 14 days. Offered a course iaw my 3 month notice. Everyone's experience will be different, but it happened a lot quicker than I was expecting.

[Alrosa]

Not very long and drawn out for me - between assessment day in Dec, Sim, and phone call with the job offer was a total of 14 days. Offered a course iaw my 3 month notice. Everyone's experience will be different, but it happened a lot quicker than I was expecting.

I should have perhaps made it clearer that individuals’ experiences may vary. Some people have indeed moved through the BA assessment stages quite quickly.

I guess my underlying point was that things can and have changed very quickly at BA (sometimes overnight and with little warning) so this should be borne in mind by anyone applying or about to join.

Other than that, I think they’re a good company to work for provided the arrangements suit. It doesn’t suit all obviously.

[airspeed75]

I wonder if they'll start prioritising FlyBe people now? I would have thought to do so would be fairer given they're out a job whereas others can wait it out at their current airlines.

[Confusious]

I wonder if they'll start prioritising FlyBe people now? I would have thought to do so would be fairer given they're out a job whereas others can wait it out at their current airlines.
Doubt it very much as they'll still prioritise those who they consider are the best fit. Hope I'm wrong though!

[White Van Driver]

I wonder if they'll start prioritising FlyBe people now? I would have thought to do so would be fairer given they're out a job whereas others can wait it out at their current airlines.
this was a contentious issue when virgin did a similar thing in the fallout of Monarch IIRC.

At the end of the day, BA will do whatever suits them, just as VS did in that case. I don't believe the perceived "fairness" to those who don't yet have a contract will come into it.

[airspeed75]

this was a contentious issue when virgin did a similar thing in the fallout of Monarch IIRC.

At the end of the day, BA will do whatever suits them, just as VS did in that case. I don't believe the perceived "fairness" to those who don't yet have a contract will come into it.

Yes this is true, and in hindsight perhaps it's fair enough that those already in the pool are given equal weighting.

[V1VRV2VF]

Hey all

I've recently been told I was successful for A320 DEP NTR LHR hold pool... this was perhaps a couple of weeks ago. Just wondered if anyone knows how long it takes these days to get a date? Anyone know anyone who has had a call recently?

Thanks

[Confusious]

​​Heard a very strong rumour today that KLM are in negotiations with IAG to buy Cityflyer. Anyone else heard of it yet?

[V1VRV2VF]

​​Heard a very strong rumour today that KLM are in negotiations with IAG to buy Cityflyer. Anyone else heard of it yet?

Why would they get rid of cityhopper only to buy cityflyer?

Aren't they supposedly interested in the flybe slots too?

Would this affect BA DEP recruitment or something? Or is this suited to another thread...

[Confusious]

Why would they get rid of cityhopper only to buy cityflyer?

Aren't they supposedly interested in the flybe slots too?

Would this affect BA DEP recruitment or something? Or is this suited to another thread...
I think it's more a case of expanding rather than getting rid.
Yes, Flybe slots as well.
Not sure about affect on BA recruitment and couldn't find a more suitable thread to post it.

[SAR Bloke]

Hey all

I've recently been told I was successful for A320 DEP NTR LHR hold pool... this was perhaps a couple of weeks ago. Just wondered if anyone knows how long it takes these days to get a date? Anyone know anyone who has had a call recently?

Thanks

I've been in the pool since pre-covid (i.e. several years) and still no start date.

[Confusious]

I've been in the pool since pre-covid (i.e. several years) and still no start date.
That's appalling. Hope you get some positive news soon.

[V1VRV2VF]

I've been in the pool since pre-covid (i.e. several years) and still no start date.

I know folk who were in that pool and were told to reapply and begin the process again post covid.

Have you made contact to check that isn't the case for you too?

A friend of mine lately did the process and got a call 5 days later with a start date...might be worth looking into if I were you.

[Confusious]

I know folk who were in that pool and were told to reapply and begin the process again post covid.

Have you made contact to check that isn't the case for you too?

A friend of mine lately did the process and got a call 5 days later with a start date...might be worth looking into if I were you.
How frustratingly inconsistent. For someone to have to go through all that malarkey again must be somewhat demotivating.

[SAR Bloke]

I know folk who were in that pool and were told to reapply and begin the process again post covid.

Have you made contact to check that isn't the case for you too?

A friend of mine lately did the process and got a call 5 days later with a start date...might be worth looking into if I were you.

Yes, I went through that and I'm still in the pool. We didn't need to go through the whole process again, just 'reactivate' our pool status.

[V1VRV2VF]

Yes, I went through that and I'm still in the pool. We didn't need to go through the whole process again, just 'reactivate' our pool status.

Have you asked them for an estimated start date? I've just heard another person who was successful laat week get a date... Are you currently flying?!

[airspeed75]

Yes, I went through that and I'm still in the pool. We didn't need to go through the whole process again, just 'reactivate' our pool status.

That's odd. Are you current?! There's definitely people being called recently.

[kendrick47247]

I know folk who were in that pool and were told to reapply and begin the process again post covid.

Have you made contact to check that isn't the case for you too?

A friend of mine lately did the process and got a call 5 days later with a start date...might be worth looking into if I were you.

Nobody who had a job offer pre-covid was asked/made to repeat the whole process.

There was an archiving of details and some lost contact, but almost every individual took the initiative to contact the recruitment department when they saw an external campaign was active.

[V1VRV2VF]

Nobody who had a job offer pre-covid was asked/made to repeat the whole process.

There was an archiving of details and some lost contact, but almost every individual took the initiative to contact the recruitment department when they saw an external campaign was active.

I don't think being in the hold pool constitutes a job offer though? I'm only going by what I was told by them but perhaps there was some exaggeration on their part.

[kendrick47247]

I don't think being in the hold pool constitutes a job offer though? I'm only going by what I was told by them but perhaps there was some exaggeration on their part.

You’re correct there, it doesn’t - I’ll try to be clearer.

During covid there were different groups of pilots: PRP, PHP, hold pool, and those mid-assesment.

From the first three groups listed, I have not heard of one single person who was asked to complete anything (other than a pseudo-application to refresh their details in the system) before offer of a start date.

I’m unsure, but did hear that those who were mid way through the process were asked to start again.

If someone was swimming and saw that an external recruitment campaign had been commenced and then didn’t take the initiative to make contact to query their status… that’s on them.

The recruitment (and therefore training) footprint for the next 18-24 months is huge, best of luck to anyone who wants to join

[AIMINGHIGH123]

For those who have been in the hold pool pre COVID you should contact the recruitment team.


The amount of people I know leaving for BA at present is astounding. Start dates seem to be every other week if not more.

[Alrosa]

You’re correct there, it doesn’t - I’ll try to be clearer.

During covid there were different groups of pilots: PRP, PHP, hold pool, and those mid-assesment.

From the first three groups listed, I have not heard of one single person who was asked to complete anything (other than a pseudo-application to refresh their details in the system) before offer of a start date.

I’m unsure, but did hear that those who were mid way through the process were asked to start again.

If someone was swimming and saw that an external recruitment campaign had been commenced and then didn’t take the initiative to make contact to query their status… that’s on them.

The recruitment (and therefore training) footprint for the next 18-24 months is huge, best of luck to anyone who wants to join

Correct, those caught up in the middle of the assessment process before COVID struck were asked to start again.

The line from the recruitment team and assessors I’ve spoken to recently is that things will start to slow down (not stop) for various reasons - by this I mean the non-TR folk entering the hold pool today for instance, may be waiting until late summer for a course.

Mind you, things seem to change on a daily basis at BA, and what I was told yesterday doesn’t apply anymore the next day !

[A320LGW]

Is anyone able to advise on what type of questions come up and how best to prepare? I understand that competency questions feature, what about technical? Do they tend to ask much about your present type or about any of the BA types, or is there generic ATPL stuff in there? Many thanks ..

[thetimesreader84]

I recently reactivated my application as I was unable to proceed a few months ago. I have the interview coming up soon. Is anyone able to advise on what type of questions come up and how best to prepare? I understand that competency questions feature, what about technical? Do they tend to ask much about your present type or about any of the BA types, or is there generic ATPL stuff in there? Many thanks ..


So my info may be out of date, but when I interviewed in 2018 the group exercise was 8 candidates around a table with a pack of info (each subtly different) given 30 mins to make a decision on what to do with a BA route to a fictional carribean island - change aircraft, add frequency, pull out all together etc. 5 mins before time there's a. "Urgent email just come in". Obviously it's not about the decision (although its a good idea to decide something!) its about how you work together.

Interview was with a BA pilot & HR person. 50/50 split between "give an example of a time when..." questions and CV walk through and company knowledge.

The rest of the aptitude tests etc I think have changed so I doubt I could give any useful information.

Hopefully this might get you started until someone else can give you more accurate info.

I'd also just add i recall being asked about fleet make up & future aircraft orders.

[A320LGW]

I'd also just add i recall being asked about fleet make up & future aircraft orders.Thanks for that, I had read your post. So have there been no reports of technical/type questions coming up? Before I go digging up hydraulic and electrical system diagrams of present and past types .. much appreciated

[Confusious]

Guys, preparation is everything so well done for asking all these questions. Keep in mind that members of the selection team are probably on here too, so my advice is keep an open mind. Good luck to each and every one of you. :ok:

[thetimesreader84]

Thanks for that, I had read your post. So have there been no reports of technical/type questions coming up? Before I go digging up hydraulic and electrical system diagrams of present and past types .. much appreciated

Not when I did it. That was some time ago now, so no guarantees I'm afraid.

[A320LGW]

Thanks guys!

[RPat01]

Thanks guys!

Would you mind providing feedback once you’ve attended the assessment?

[A320LGW]

I'll certainly be willing to help

[Alrosa]

Not when I did it. That was some time ago now, so no guarantees I'm afraid.

It’s not changed. BA take it as given you can fly a plane and know your stuff. They’re more interested in how you work and manage people and the flight.

That’s also the case with the sim. Workload management and decision making. They’re not looking for you to fly a perfect raw data ILS. They’re not expecting it.

If you can, that’s a bonus but even if you fly a 747 sim perfectly raw data - if your CRM isn’t what they want it to be, you’re not going to do well.

[mplpilot]

Hi All,

I’m just seeking so more information on the rostering at BAEF, in particular JSS, for junior FO’s. Really trying to get an understanding of what I’m getting myself in to - would really appreciate someone providing a run down or example of current BAEF roster.

With this in mind, I’m trying to understand the SH lifestyle with BAEF having previously flown a mix of UK/EU 2 and 4 sector days without night stops.

Thanks!

[Iflyplane]

Does anyone know what's the average wait in the holding pool? I'm already rated on the 320.

Just received an email saying that I've passed the simulator assessment and that I'm entering the holding pool...

Thanks

[Busdriver01]

BAEF use eCrew not JSS. junior = less of what you want. senior = more of what you want, if establishment for the month is correct (it usually isnt, i hear). It will be very similar to the 2/4 sector day trips you're used to - usually further afield to holiday destinations rather than cities.

[737 Jockey]

Has anyone who’s applied as NTR DEC had an invitation for assessment yet? Thx.

[RPat01]

Has anyone who’s applied as NTR DEC had an invitation for assessment yet? Thx.

I applied about a month ago but haven’t heard anything since.

[737 Jockey]

I applied about a month ago but haven’t heard anything since.


Thx. Someone I know had a PFO about a week ago, but nothing since the acknowledgement email for me. I guess no news is (hopefully) good news… Job advert is still active until end of this month in any case, so perhaps they’re still sorting through their way through. I’d imagine it’s been pretty well subscribed to for NTR. Good luck!

[Iflyplane]

Been in about a month. Heard nothing since.
Are you 320 rated? I've heard they were giving priority to people already rated 🤔

[airspeed75]

Are you 320 rated? I've heard they were giving priority to people already rated 🤔

Nope. Where did you hear that? Reliable source?
It will be different training dept avail which would depend on someone getting a start date for rated versus non rated I'm sure anyway.

[Barry D.Hatchett]

Good day all, I would appreciate any information from those who have recently completed the simulator assessment with BA.

Thanks!

[Iflyplane]

Nope. Where did you hear that? Reliable source?
It will be different training dept avail which would depend on someone getting a start date for rated versus non rated I'm sure anyway.
I think it go mentioned earlier in this forum as well as from a fairly reliable source but nothing official. They did say in the job description that priority would be given to 320 rated pilot so idk...

[Phantom4]

Does anyone know what's the average wait in the holding pool? I'm already rated on the 320.

Just received an email saying that I've passed the simulator assessment and that I'm entering the holding pool...

Thanks

Tell admin and you will be earmarked for short course.

[Iflyplane]

Tell admin and you will be earmarked for short course.
I've sent an email to recruitment so we'll have to wait and see👍

[QueenBee07]

Hi all,

Can anyone provide some insights on the online tests that must be completed at home before attending the interview? I understand they are SHL but on the practice website there are so many to choose from? Is there anything specific? Also is there somewhere else to practice as the SHL site doesn't give feedback on where you went wrong.
What happens if these tests do not go well? Have you automatically failed before you have even attended the assessment day and are told not to come?

Forgive me - I am out of the loop with current recruitment processes! :(

[Iflyplane]

Anyone got offered a start date recently? If so when did you entered the holding pool?

​​​​​Thanks

[ToCatLady]

For those in the Hold pool what are the current wait times for a course? Especially those without an A320 rating.

[Iflyplane]

For those in the Hold pool what are the current wait times for a course? Especially those without an A320 rating.
Waited 3 weeks but I'm 320 rated. I know someone who was 737 rated and had a 2 weeks wait. It really depends on the training department availability etc...

[DoubleBigMac]

Hi all, is anybody able to pm me what the interviews all about ?

[takeoff320]

Hi all, hope the prep is going well. Would anyone be kind enough to PM me with any advice for the testing/interviews? I've been reading through PPrune the whole day but feel none the wiser!

[RPat01]

Could anybody provide feedback on the kind of questions asked in the online recorded interview?

[122.85]

Could anybody provide feedback on the kind of questions asked in the online recorded interview?

You could just read the previous posts and get the info you need.

[Telekon]

You could just read the previous posts and get the info you need.

Except for the small fact that you can't as it seems to have been newly added to the process and hasn't been mentioned anywhere in this thread.

Anyone know anymore?

[ToCatLady]

Except for the small fact that you can't as it seems to have been newly added to the process and hasn't been mentioned anywhere in this thread.

Anyone know anymore?


yup, they’ve removed the online assessment sent prior to your interview and replaced it with this recorded interview now.

No idea about it though, so whoever wants to go first, please feel free!

[thetimesreader84]

yup, they’ve removed the online assessment sent prior to your interview and replaced it with this recorded interview now.

No idea about it though, so whoever wants to go first, please feel free!

Disclaimer: I have not done the recorded interview for BA.

... but I have done one for another IAG company (Shamrock). Its a very strange experience talking to your screen camera image of yourself for 3 minutes (or whatever) on why you want to work there, what you can bring to the company, etc. With that one you got a "freebie" practice question then straight into it. 2-3 minutes (I forget, but it goes quickly!) To answer a question eg "how can you as a pilot make a difference for our passengers?")

In the absence of further info, all I can recommend is maybe think of the type of questions they might ask, then video yourself answering them within 2-3 minutes using the screen camera Afterwards, maybe critique yourself using the video? Even having done it, I'm not sure what I could have done to prepare.

I'm sure it goes without saying, but make sure you're dressed as if for an actual face to face interview.

Bon Chance!

[RPat01]

You basically get 3 questions to answer, my questions were:
• Why do you want to join the BA short haul fleet?
• What are the current challenges BA are facing?
• What are the advantages of BA introducing the A320neo into the fleet?

Your video recorded answers are limited to 3 minutes and you get 2 attempts per question.

Once the question is revealed, you have unlimited time to formulate your answer before you start recording your response.

[sheriff92]

Hello everyone,

I’m preparing for my assessment day,
I get some information about the kind of test (calculation, verbal, visual, multitask, etc), so in trying to prepare doing some test for the assessment, but there is a lot of website that offer packages, test and more. Anyone in particular that someone recommend me?

and any extra info for the assessment will be appreciate, for example, I understand the simulator test is in a B767 and not a A320

thank you for the time ..!

[ToCatLady]

Any recent feedback from the 747 sim assessment? Happy to receive DM if that’s a better option.

Do you find out the result pretty quickly?

[flyingtrain]

You basically get 3 questions to answer, my questions were:
• Why do you want to join the BA short haul fleet?
• What are the current challenges BA are facing?
• What are the advantages of BA introducing the A320neo into the fleet?

Your video recorded answers are limited to 3 minutes and you get 2 attempts per question.

Once the question is revealed, you have unlimited time to formulate your answer before you start recording your response.

That's great, thanks RPat01.
Has anyone else had any different questions?

[Glorified_Taxi]

That's great, thanks RPat01.
Has anyone else had any different questions?

After my own interview, my colleagues and I who applied all had the same 3 questions (5 of us spread 3 weeks apart). Most recent did his a couple of days ago - likely it won’t change as there’s another interview for Day 1 assessment at Waterside.

[BusDr1ver]

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could provide some feedback regarding the CityFlyer online interview. I understand that they have only recently started recruitment so there isn't much information available online, but any insights would be greatly appreciated.

I assume that the questions might be similar to those asked in the EuroFlyer interviews, but I would love to hear from anyone (or knows of someone) who has recently gone through the process.

Thank you!

[CVividasku]

Hello,
Side question about British Airways :
Is it allowed for British Airways ground staff to occupy a cockpit jumpseat while staff travelling ?

[bylgw]

No, it is not.

[Phantom4]

Not allowed.

[monkey.tennis]

Hello,
Side question about British Airways :
Is it allowed for British Airways ground staff to occupy a cockpit jumpseat while staff travelling ?

only if travelling on company business when no seat available in the cabin. Not allowed on leisure travel.

[CVividasku]

I took a BA flight on a cabin jumpseat (the crew was thanked many times), and apparently even the captain's family cannot occupy a cockpit jumpseat, but pilots on leisure travel can.
Can cabin crew do so as well ?
Being from another airline I'm not allowed either, so if as many people as possible were allowed, they would free up a potentiel cabin jumpseat for me.

[VariablePitchP]

I took a BA flight on a cabin jumpseat (the crew was thanked many times), and apparently even the captain's family cannot occupy a cockpit jumpseat, but pilots on leisure travel can.
Can cabin crew do so as well ?
Being from another airline I'm not allowed either, so if as many people as possible were allowed, they would free up a potentiel cabin jumpseat for me.

Why does bring the captain’s family make any difference? Red herring.

UK law is pretty clear - You hold an airside pass as operating crew, have been vetted, and have access to jumpseats. Or you don’t.

Stricter than the continent, absolutely, but them’s the rules.

[RJ100]

From what I understand. The interview for BA Cityflyer is now very similar to that of BA.

[ToCatLady]

Any idea on how long you can expect to be in the Hold Pool for? Are courses happening regular as I believe there’s a huge training capacity issue now.

[Alrosa]

Any idea on how long you can expect to be in the Hold Pool for? Are courses happening regular as I believe there’s a huge training capacity issue now.

Difficult to say. I have friends who passed sim assessments in Jan/Feb this year and were told not to expect to be coursed until second half of this year due to “training capacity” -
only to be called for TRs in 3 months or less.

From what I understand, folk are being sent off to L3 to do the TR, and then further sims at BA flight training prior to being released for line training.

Hopefully someone might give you a better idea, but keep an open mind. If you’re already TR’d on the ‘bus then I haven’t the foggiest.

[Max Angle]

but pilots on leisure travel can
Pilots on leisure travel CAN'T

[Confusious]

Pilots on leisure travel CAN'T
100% correct Max Angle!

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Am I the only one slightly confused as to why FD access policy is on a DEP thread?

I mean it’s better than seniority again :}

[Confusious]

Am I the only one slightly confused as to why FD access policy is on a DEP thread?

I mean it’s better than seniority again :}
Probably not as wannabe DEPs are most likely soaking up opinions from the inside before they take the leap of faith. := :)

[3Greens]

Pilots on leisure travel CAN'T
Completely incorrect. Suggest you read exactly what it says in OMa. Pilots on leisure travel most certainly CAN. If certain criteria are met…it’s all there in the BA OMa
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…

[Plastic787]

Completely incorrect. Suggest you read exactly what it says in OMa. Pilots on leisure travel most certainly CAN. If certain criteria are met…it’s all there in the BA OMa
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…

3Greens ever so sadly you meet some on the line that are. It seems to be the majority with this POV (but not exclusively) are ex Midland captains. I’ve heard numerous references from them to the idea that for BA pilots or cabin crew to travel on a FD JS they must be commuting to or from the station involved, which is stated absolutely nowhere in OM-A operating policy. As you have alluded to, the wording in OM-A has clearly been deliberately chosen so as to be permissive, not the other way around.

The story where a 787 Captain was refused access to a FD JS coming back to work after finishing a holiday in LCA (operating the next day) takes the cake. He was travelling entirely within the scope of the wording in OM-A but was denied by the operating skipper as he “doesn’t live in Larnaca”. I’d like to think if I’d been the FO involved on that flight I’d have told my Captain I was prepared to offload myself unless they could give a clear justification why they were deviating from company policy written in OM-A. It’s absolutely infuriating when people make up their own rules which aren’t written anywhere but even more so when it totally screws a colleague over for no good reason.

[Confusious]

3Greens ever so sadly you meet some on the line that are. It seems to be the majority with this POV (but not exclusively) are ex Midland captains. I’ve heard numerous references from them to the idea that for BA pilots or cabin crew to travel on a FD JS they must be commuting to or from the station involved, which is stated absolutely nowhere in OM-A operating policy. As you have alluded to, the wording in OM-A has clearly been deliberately chosen so as to be permissive, not the other way around.

The story where a 787 Captain was refused access to a FD JS coming back to work after finishing a holiday in LCA (operating the next day) takes the cake. He was travelling entirely within the scope of the wording in OM-A but was denied by the operating skipper as he “doesn’t live in Larnaca”. I’d like to think if I’d been the FO involved on that flight I’d have told my Captain I was prepared to offload myself unless they could give a clear justification why they were deviating from company policy written in OM-A. It’s absolutely infuriating when people make up their own rules which aren’t written anywhere but even more so when it totally screws a colleague over for no good reason.
Offload yourself, are you serious? Regardless of the rules is it not the Captain's decision at the end of the day?

[Plastic787]

Offload yourself, are you serious? Regardless of the rules is it not the Captain's decision at the end of the day?

Yes I am deadly serious, it’s a team game. Help out your colleagues, it’s not difficult. Second of all the captain in question was risking a cancellation to the operation (especially in the current climate) the following day with his petty and unmalleable misinterpretation of OM-A operating policy, whether deliberate or not. If I can’t trust you to exercise pragmatic judgement and interpret company policy to a simple and positive conclusion with such a simple issue like that I cannot trust your judgement elsewhere and therefore I’m not flying with you. End of story.

[thetimesreader84]

Yes I am deadly serious, it’s a team game. Help out your colleagues, it’s not difficult. Second of all the captain in question was risking a cancellation to the operation (especially in the current climate) the following day with his petty and unmalleable misinterpretation of OM-A operating policy, whether deliberate or not. If I can’t trust you to exercise pragmatic judgement and interpret company policy to a simple and positive conclusion with such a simple issue like that I cannot trust your judgement elsewhere and therefore I’m not flying with you. End of story.

And how do you think the subsequent chat with Flt OPS management would go?

Edit to Add: our manuals are also pretty explicit as to who's responsible for getting back in time to report for your next duty, and it's not the operating captain on the oversold flight you're trying to jumpseat on.

[ItsonlyMeagain]

Quite why this is being discussed here, I’m not sure.

Anyway, an interesting perspective from Plastic787. Because the operating captain can’t make a pragmatic decision (ie his is the wrong one) he is petty, unmalleable (meaning you want to mould him) and can’t be trusted. So, you would get off, of course cancelling the flight you were rostered to do. Hmmm… Best you swap seats then as you appear to think you are the captain! In addition, I’m sure ops would be overjoyed by your rational decision process.

There may be many reasons why he may exercise his right to refuse a request. For example, as a long time trainer, I never took anyone on the flight deck that had no role to play in the training. This was purely for the benefit of the trainee to avoid any pressure or should things not go quite as planned. Despite a couple of complaints to Flt Ops, the answer was always the same; it is for the captain to decide.

Me

[Plastic787]

Two replies above spoken like individuals who would happily shaft a colleague for no good reason (this was not a training flight) other than to make a point to somebody when the Ops manual clearly allows it.

So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.

anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.

[bylgw]

Sage parting advice on successful command checks ‘“not all ***** are in the lhs”.

seek first to understand, before being understood.

[Confusious]

Two replies above spoken like individuals who would happily shaft a colleague for no good reason (this was not a training flight) other than to make a point to somebody when the Ops manual clearly allows it.

So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.

anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.
Someone has been blessed with an enormous chip on their shoulder. Hopefully your comments are influenced by keyboard warrior syndrome. Firstly, I would suggest a reread of your initial comment which is somewhat contradictory; you referred to how poor it was of the Captain to POTENTIALLY disrupt the company operation, then you go on to say that you WOULD disrupt the situation to prove your point. I'm sure all here appreciate the importance of teamwork and CRM, but your knowledge appears to have one gigantic gap in it; the buck does stop at the Captain. Sorry to break that news to you but it's a vital piece on knowledge that should not escape any crew member's attention. Frankly you're either a troll or an individual bordering lunacy. Please answer this one question honestly, so that we can grasp some reality out of your outbursts; Would you send an email to management stating how you'd offload yourself from a flight down route in the event that you did not agree with a Captain's decision? And regarding the thread drift, yes this is well off piste but hopefully educational for any potential newbies to the company. They will no doubt draw their own conclusions based on their experiences, training and common sense.

[thetimesreader84]

Please answer this one question honestly, so that we can grasp some reality out of your outbursts; Would you send an email to management stating how you'd offload yourself from a flight down route in the event that you did not agree with a Captain's decision?.

And just to add for clarity, the captains decision you would offload yourself for is s/he not allowing someone on a leisure ticket on the flight deck jumpseat? That's the hill you're prepared to die on?

[Whitemonk Returns]

Any Captain in any airline who would refuse to board a company colleague of any rank, for any reason, is a top class knobhead who shouldn't be in charge of the crew bus let alone a jet. End of.

[Confusious]

Any Captain in any airline who would refuse to board a company colleague of any rank, for any reason, is a top class knobhead who shouldn't be in charge of the crew bus let alone a jet. End of.
And that contribution is no more than an unnecessary inarticulate digression, further drifting away from the thread. The issue being discussed is the willingness of a First Officer to risk highly probable disciplinary implications purely to make a stand against a Captain's decision.

[Whitemonk Returns]

And that contribution is no more than an unnecessary inarticulate digression, further drifting away from the thread. The issue being discussed is the willingness of a First Officer to risk highly probable disciplinary implications purely to make a stand against a Captain's decision.
But not incorrect.....

[hans brinker]

And that contribution is no more than an unnecessary inarticulate digression, further drifting away from the thread. The issue being discussed is the willingness of a First Officer to risk highly probable disciplinary implications purely to make a stand against a Captain's decision.

The issue is a captain making a decision that is not supported by the company procedures, and the FO rightfully disagreeing. (was trying to find more articulate nonsense, but you would definitely beat me with the syllable count)

[midnight cruiser]

As for the subject title; BA DEP, and prospective applicants looking in - these people are real, they do exist, in BA in numbers greater than any airlines I have encountered, (even round towards the Pacific). It's something to consider. I still shudder when I think back

[122.85]

As for the subject title; BA DEP, and prospective applicants looking in - these people are real, they do exist, in BA in numbers greater than any airlines I have encountered, (even round towards the Pacific). It's something to consider. I still shudder when I think back

I have worked in the Pacific and at BA and that statement is utter rubbish the crews at BA are very relaxed and apart from a very very small minority would bend over backwards to help fellow crew (and other companies staff).

[midnight cruiser]

It's true to say they tend not to suffer fools out East, whereas at BA, they certainly exist!

[marcus1290]

The last few posts on this thread are exactly why BA sounds like a terrible place to work. Superiority Complexes left, right and centre. Don't agree with the Captains decision = offloading yourself? Enjoy that meeting with the DFO.

[Confusious]

The last few posts on this thread are exactly why BA sounds like a terrible place to work. Superiority Complexes left, right and centre. Don't agree with the Captains decision = offloading yourself? Enjoy that meeting with the DFO.
Indeed, and who remembers when the pursers tried to argue the case that they should be second in charge and First Officers third?

[RARA9]

I’m glad to see it ! Makes me sleep easy at night after jumping from the sinking ship

[sudden twang]

I’m glad to see it ! Makes me sleep easy at night after jumping from the sinking ship

Thinking of green grass RARA9 how is Jet2 ?

[RARA9]

Thinking of green grass RARA9 how is Jet2 ?

I will speak honestly . It’s VERY well run , the pay is excellent, love being at a regional base and it’s so nice that most are so up beat about everything compared to constant moaning etc…

Bad things definitely a bit of an RAF old boy culture , but that apparently has got better for example the command process is more grown up .

If rumours are true about a few 330neos in the Airbus order, and if they bring in mixed fleet flying then I will be one happy bunny

[RPat01]

Does anybody know the latest hold pool time after completing the sim check? I see 2 weeks in an earlier post, but is that still realistic considering the training backlog?

[ToCatLady]

And here we go again…..soon to be another thread drift from J2 Pilots telling us how good it is Vs BA.

[Alrosa]

Does anybody know the latest hold pool time after completing the sim check? I see 2 weeks in an earlier post, but is that still realistic considering the training backlog?

I was told about a training backlog and was in the pool for a couple of weeks at the most (earlier this year). I can’t really say anything beyond that.

Things can change very quickly at BA, so keep an open mind and don’t be surprised if they call you from a random mobile number.

[sudden twang]

And here we go again…..soon to be another thread drift from J2 Pilots telling us how good it is Vs BA.


This whole section is about Ts and Cs. Where else can airlines be compared.
RARA9 is entitled to his opinion and has experience of LH BA.
I think it’s v relevant and if it prevents just one person from joining BA who would be better suited somewhere else then the price of thread drift is worth paying IMVHO.

Look on the bright side TCL the more that choose Jet 2 the less competition you have. Ultimately if BA don’t get enough pilots they’ll lower the entry requirements or increase the pay. For you it’s a win win.

[OBK!]

Yes I am deadly serious, it’s a team game. Help out your colleagues, it’s not difficult. Second of all the captain in question was risking a cancellation to the operation (especially in the current climate) the following day with his petty and unmalleable misinterpretation of OM-A operating policy, whether deliberate or not. If I can’t trust you to exercise pragmatic judgement and interpret company policy to a simple and positive conclusion with such a simple issue like that I cannot trust your judgement elsewhere and therefore I’m not flying with you. End of story.

so surely you’d check the PIL to see if any other staff members are on hotlines or any family of staff are on the flight you’re about to cancel before throwing your teddy out the flight deck?

[yardmaster]

Does anybody know the latest hold pool time after completing the sim check? I see 2 weeks in an earlier post, but is that still realistic considering the training backlog?

I’ve been waiting for 3 months so far (non TR’d)…

[Cloud Bunny]

I’ve been waiting for 3 months so far (non TR’d)…

Is that LHR or LGW if you don’t mind me asking?

[Twiglet1]

That would be tea with no biscuits and a warning letter for the FO - Plastic 787 what planet are you on?
Was on a recent flight with First Class being empty and the Capt didn't allow the CC to take rest in FC. Found that a bit lacking

[sudden twang]

That would be tea with no biscuits and a warning letter for the FO - Plastic 787 what planet are you on?
Was on a recent flight with First Class being empty and the Capt didn't allow the CC to take rest in FC. Found that a bit lacking

Bit lacking in what Twiglet?
Were you party to the Capts DM? Was this from “ Galley FM”? I’d want more facts before making a conclusion.
re Plastic
The fact is Plastic wasn’t the FO on the LCA in question. I’m sure they would have had a quick TDODAR with the capt. and discovered THE perfectly workable option that would have prevented this situation from developing.

[3Greens]

That would be tea with no biscuits and a warning letter for the FO - Plastic 787 what planet are you on?
Was on a recent flight with First Class being empty and the Capt didn't allow the CC to take rest in FC. Found that a bit lacking

maybe it was a 3 crew flight and the flight crew did want their own rest distubed by having CC also resting in F? just one of many plausible scenarios.
i can think of quite a few more reasons too. Whilst on the face of it, it may seem a bit lacking, without all the info on which the Captain made their decision; its impossible
to judge.

[eagle21]

Whilst power hungry arguments take place here, the elephant in the room is the 6 month bonus paid by EK to their pilots. What well reasoned excuses will be given to justify the disparity in T&Cs?

[hunterboy]

What well reasoned excuses will be given to justify the disparity in T&Cs?

I imagine it will be along the lines of if you don’t like it, leave…..

[Twiglet1]

Bit lacking in what Twiglet?
Were you party to the Capts DM? Was this from “ Galley FM”? I’d want more facts before making a conclusion.
re Plastic
The fact is Plastic wasn’t the FO on the LCA in question. I’m sure they would have had a quick TDODAR with the capt. and discovered THE perfectly workable option that would have prevented this situation from developing.
Sudden
Day time flight of 6.5-7.00hrs. Lacking in good crew cooperation maybe you tell me. Just found it a bit odd "as one"

[Confusious]

Sudden
Day time flight of 6.5-7.00hrs. Lacking in good crew cooperation maybe you tell me. Just found it a bit odd "as one"
Twiggy - Were you actually there or is this third hand rumour mill material?

[Potatos_69]

I imagine it will be along the lines of if you don’t like it, leave…..

I don’t think this will be their answer to it while they are short of crew…

[Captain Spam Can]

Good Morning,
Just got invited for an interview for DEC Euroflyer, any idea what to expect at the interview ? haven't done any interview in 17 years...
Is there a dedicated thread for Euroflyer ?
Anybody else here got invited ?

Regards

Oliver


I heard it’s a separate Airline/AOC to BA Mainline like Cityflyer so it could just be an informal chat with the base pilot, get shown around the office/when’s your notice period/why do you want to join us. Best of luck, If you have any apprehension I hear ‘Flightdeckwingman’ does a Stella job at getting people up to interview speed with the courses he runs. A good success rate.

[kendrick47247]

I heard it’s a separate Airline/AOC to BA Mainline like Cityflyer so it could just be an informal chat with the base pilot, get shown around the office/when’s your notice period/why do you want to join us. Best of luck, If you have any apprehension I hear ‘Flightdeckwingman’ does a Stella job at getting people up to interview speed with the courses he runs. A good success rate.

What is the point in this? Why comment if you have zero idea about the recruitment process??

It is run by Euroflyer selectors, but runs in a similar format as the mainline process.
DEC should also have a tech exam and an Airbus sim.

[ToCatLady]

There is a dedicated EF thread on here but it’s basically the exact same process as BA Mainline

[FL711]

Hi everyone, appreciate this is a public forum but will be very thankful if anyone can give me any assessment feedback. I've scrolled through but nothing specific to the assessment in waterside is posted here. I have the assessment on 20th June. Thank you in advance.

[Confusious]

Hi everyone, appreciate this is a public forum but will be very thankful if anyone can give me any assessment feedback. I've scrolled through but nothing specific to the assessment in waterside is posted here. I have the assessment on 20th June. Thank you in advance.
Must be plenty here who can help you and quite right of you to reach out. Little word of advice to all; this thread, other threads, other forums and social media etc. are being monitored, so please don't influence future interview questions and assessment procedures by posting here publicly. Private messages are the way to go. Please don't ask me how I know because I wont/can't respond.

[KruegerFlappage]

That’s BS by the way. The HR dept have absolutely no time to monitor prune. The assessment procedure has and always been a joke of a process, many existing LTCs have failed the process. As long as you fit their nonsense demographic box, you’ll do a grand job getting in.

[Alrosa]

That’s BS by the way. The HR dept have absolutely no time to monitor prune. The assessment procedure has and always been a joke of a process, many existing LTCs have failed the process. As long as you fit their nonsense demographic box, you’ll do a grand job getting in.

Utter nonsense. There’s nothing unique about the BA assessment process, many other airlines use similar methods. If you want the job you’ll get it . If you rock up thinking you’re owed the job, you most likely won’t.

[flyingtrain]

Does anyone have a sim assessment upcoming for early July and would like to pair up for some sim preparation somewhere?

[Oasis]

What would be the difference in a320 rosters at mainline vs euroflyer?

I’ve tried to find examples of rosters for either and can’t seem to find it anywhere.

How many days off a month etc.

Can anyone possibly point me in the right direction?

[JulietSierra6]

What would be the difference in a320 rosters at mainline vs euroflyer?

I’ve tried to find examples of rosters for either and can’t seem to find it anywhere.

How many days off a month etc.

Can anyone possibly point me in the right direction?

Mainline is 1-5 day trips with a heavy emphasis on weekend working at the junior end of the rosters. Daytrips popular at the senior non commuter end. 4-5 day trips popular with commuters for obvious reasons. Very difficult to say what a typical roster looks like as it’s seniority and preference dependent. As a new junior FO I’d suggest it’d be mainly 2-4 day trips over most (every?) weekends. That’ll improve as you move up the list fairly quickly with current recruitment forecasts.

Euroflyer is exclusively single day trips to more leisure focused destinations and has a seasonal bias.

[Oasis]

Thank you for that information.
Would you say that mainline is more suitable for commuters as the patterns are longer than Euroflyer?


When you apply with one of the BA companies, you're kind of stuck with them, unable to reapply to another one, need to know what I'm getting into before applying..

[JulietSierra6]

Thank you for that information.
Would you say that mainline is more suitable for commuters as the patterns are longer than Euroflyer?


When you apply with one of the BA companies, you're kind of stuck with them, unable to reapply to another one, need to know what I'm getting into before applying..

Yes mainline is much more suitable for commuters. Depends on the distance as to whether you could make EF commuting work but I imagine it’d be pretty difficult. Experience etc dependent I’d strongly suggest going all out to get into mainline if you’ve made the decision to join. In my opinion of course.