Bond for rejoining rated pilots?

[FlexibleResponse]

Someone sent me the following. Is there any truth behind this rumour?

Just heard Cx is levying a $HK260 thousand bond on re-joining type rated pilots.
Huh? That is a very strange thing to do imo. But hey, the entire world is getting nuttier by the day.
Anyone heard any news?

[Oasis]

I knew there would be a catch!

They get a free pilot, but they still want to see money.

Same amazing decision making as the HKG government.

[Rie]

I feel it is $280k. They just have to screw that extra 20,000 out of you if you decide to leave the prison island. Is it like the old days that bonding for training in HK is not legal?

[Oasis]

How about they give the returning pilot a 280k hkd re-sign on bonus instead?

Opposite-think as usal.

[Cavallier]

Are people returning ??

[Shot Nancy]

The Clark refueler told me that about 100 ex KA boys and girls have joined (rejoined?) CX.
Local spouses or tad bit short on $$$ as main reason.
I hear that the only way for CX is up.
Each to their own.

[Oasis]

The Clark refueler sure has some connections alright. From rock bottom, the only way is up, correct.

[RAT Management]

The way things are going the sim instructors will be all leaving. Management tried to offer a so called raise which was seen by many as an insult!

[ron burgandy]

With jobs available around the world, frankly, if you’re stupid/lazy enough to go back there, you deserve to be fleeced.

[veryoldchinahand]

Remember - its a rumour network....

[jjmclure]

Yes it is true, however it’s called a training loan.
$280k / 3 years.
So far about 8 guys have signed up.
But for many it’s now a no go!
They believe guys will simply return to get current, but that may take 12 months, and then leave.
Cx , Rooster one day, feather duster the next!

[Babyjet_dododo]

“Premium” airline, Ryanair conditions.

I don’t know what it’s like now, but pre-covid, new joiners on POS18 had to pay the company $xxxxx per month for their training for 3 years.

Regardless of what CX does bond wise, it will and can never be enforced in any decent first world countries.

[SabrinaSenior]

They obviously didn’t notice that seniority number of most just jumped by at least 20 overnight!

[Flying Clog]

Battered Spouse Syndrome indeed, with a dash of Stockholm Syndrome!

You would have to be absolutely mental to either stay, or return to CX. But to return.... wow.

I feel very sorry for my respected ex colleagues who didn't have the stones to leave, or felt that things might get better. They won't.

CX deserves everything it gets, and I fear soon it will be GBA, and that's game over then. Welcome to a crappy 3rd tier Chinese city. What a disgusting prospect.

I was at CX for 20 years and did very well out of it. I thank CX for the high standard of training, so everywhere I go now is a walk in the park. And I thank them for making me a USD millionaire twice over on the housing allowance. Something my BA, LH and KL mates wouldn't have got.

So thank you CX. Loved the time there, but adios!

[Progress Wanchai]

They obviously didn’t notice that seniority number of most just jumped by at least 20 overnight!

Head up your ass.

You obviously didn’t notice your seniority moved overnight because Debs finally drew a line through the names of your unfortunate based colleagues. Your number changing was just a symptom of another management mass sacking, not an employee lead mass resignation.

[Flex88]

The Brits used this for centuries, now China is on board.

Bonding "employees" is just another name for "indentured servitude"

Were ya'll just born with no sense or did your mommy mentors teach it to you ?

[Klimax]

Basically. Cathay Pathetic is now an airline for losers! CX just made that clear by making a joke become a joke of its own kind! The last word to be said - SAD!

[Oli777]

I'm trying to work this out:

Many countries / airlines around the world bond their pilots for one reason, because they have been burned by pilots coming in and getting ratings which cost a lot of time and money, and then in a few months those pilots just pack up and leave. I'm not 100% sure of the terms of this CX bond, but you cannot be taxed unless you are actually paid that money into your bank account etc. If the bond is $280k over 3 years and reduces pro-rata then so what? I don't see the issue here.. if you leave after 1 day you pay back $280k, if you leave after 1.5 years you pay back $140k, etc. After 3 years you owe nothing, am I correct in that?

If that is the case, then surely the guys who are returning or new people don't mind because they are going to be at CX for longer than 3 years? This is also done so the company gets a stable work force.

I have been bonded before, on 2 aircraft types. No money comes out of my payslip, its just numbers reducing daily until X amount of years was up and then I'm free of it (was normally 2 years) So in essence it never cost me a cent. I have seen some bonds on a 737 for $50k USD over 8 years and it only starts reducing on year 3! Now that is ridiculous and they can shove that.

So again, I haven't seen the fine print but 3 years is reasonable to me if it's just numbers on a screen.

[whitsunday]

Oli777 - Was it before or after Covid when you were bonded? If it was before Covid, then you did not go through the pain and suffering those folks have gone through. Firing your pilots and then ask them to rejoin and bond them again, this does not sound human at all. I think the issue is more of a psychological one. Btw, if a company is so worried about losing pilots, they probably need to ask that question, WHY? They need to ask, what have we done wrong? And how can we improve the condition here so that people would come and enjoy working for us? That's the way of thinking, imop!

[Sam Ting Wong]

I have a suggestion to anyone not happy with a Cathay employment offer.

Don't take it.

[Oasis]

Or wait.. CX is apparently not desperate yet. Nobody wants to travel to HKG at the moment.

Let's see what happens when they do.

[VforVENDETTA]

An employer resorting to bonding in an attempt to keep people from leaving is a clear statement & admission that the job on offer and the employer aren't worth it to people enough to stay. They've already been faced with lack of interest from prospective employees for a year trying to recruit to replace those leaving in droves. Having lowered their competitive applicant requirements to the level which might attract lower experienced/qualified candidates who might come to get a rating and add to their resume planning to leave before they even get here and those who haven't done their homework and are rudely surprised what they've gotten themselves into and will decide to leave after coming, Cathay has now officially accepted its position as one of the low value employers who need to impose penalties and coercion to attempt attaining & keeping a workforce. It's brilliant karma and well deserved.

Nothing short of paying exorbitant amounts of money and benefits will attract worthwhile candidates to a company which has lost all credibility as an employer once and for all. After having proven via legal precedence that an employment contract signed with Cathay isn't worth the toilet paper it is signed on and can be canceled overnight, nobody in the right mind will go to work for cathay unless they need short term employment in order get a decent job somewhere else and move on asap.

As it is currently cathay pilots don't have an employment contract since 2 years ago. They're working under constantly changeable pay/benefits/rules/conditions revisable by cathay at its sole discretion. By definition it's not a contract unless binding on both parties involved.

Accept a job with cathay knowing you have zero expectations of income, benefits and anything resembling quality of life while you're there. Know that the carpet will be pulled from under you at the worst possible moment when the job market is cold. If you pass up any half descent job to instead work for cathay, do yourself and your family, get mental help, especially if you have wife and kids.

It has always been a toxic & cancerous company to work for. But we got paid well enough to make up for it enough to stay. Now all you get is toxic and cancerous, without enough money to live a decent life in Hong Kong or to have enough to retire some day.

[Rie]

Rumor mill running wild that COS18 cannot attract enough outsider attention that the hand will be forced to provide more food to current participants. Just a little more to keep them healthy enough to either join/continue to operate flights without resigning for sandier pastures.

[Oasis]

I just saw a post on cx wives on Facebook. Wife is considering moving overseas to supplement hubbies pilot income to provide for the family as they seemingly cannot make end meet.

what the hell

[ak_sled_driver]

EK, as hundreds of other airlines, has a training bond. 42000 USD/ 42 months.
EK treats their foreign employees as disposable objects.

[Flying Clog]

whitsunday - they are far too deluded to ever acknowledge that no one will want to work for them again.

STW - correct, anyone with half a brain won't. But there's a huge untapped resource that CX has never tapped - the parker pen brigade, and the unemployable muppets, who will eventually crash jets.

Oasis - indeed, who wants to travel to Hong Kong? Those days are well and truly over. I'll go back for one last bit of closure, but it's pointless, and will probably be a let down.

VforVendetta - wow, spot on, as always.

Rie - yup, they'll just drip feed a bit more cash, but the horses have bolted.

STW - you management stooge, good luck to you, and your miserable existence. Each to their own.

My opinion - after a 20 year escapee, is that GBA with Beijing backing will run rough shod over Cathay. Swire and Cathay Pacific are finished. Hong Kong will turn into an irrelevant 3rd tier Chinese city like the 500 other cities in China I've never even heard of, and business will move elsewhere. Singapore should do alright out of it. But everyone will distance themselves from China and any Chinese allies for the next few decades, so the picture in HKG won't be pretty.

For those of you blinkered pilots who are still hanging on, grow a pair. There are some very exciting opportunities out there.

...

Everyone thinking of joining Cathay should read VforVendetta's post at least 3 times. And then you're on your own.

I've been there, done that, made the most of it, but CX is a 100% different animal now.

Back in the day, cos99, we put up with the most extremely toxic airline environment on the planet, because we were mercenaries, prostitutes. And very well paid ones! No complaints!

The CX management were the most hateful bunch that anyone could have the terrible misfortune to work for. We took it for the money, and we enjoyed it. It made us rich. Thank you Cathay.

Now you have to take it up the proverbial, and get paid slave wages with no hope of ever getting ahead in life in your home country.

A very sick situation, but Cathay, as usual will take advantage and destroy you. You'll just end up penniless. Unlike those pre bat flu. Don't be fooled. Don't do it. There are far better opportunities for well qualified and trained aviators.

I thank Cathay particularly for the stellar training, and I will carry that throughout the rest of my career, and hopefully past it on someday. But that's gone now too, as the best trainers have left Cathay, for pastures greener. So that's not even a valid excuse to join.

Can I paint a more dim picture anyone!

STW, not interested in your management view.

[ChrissyPrezzie]

If Elon Musk took over Cathay today, he would have fired all top brass with no mercy and shaked up the whole company in a week time, just like what he is doing with Twitter right now. He would have folded the IT department and brought in his staffs from Tesla to revamp everything. This is 2022. We need someone like Musk to be in charge!

[Flying Clog]

FC, It hurts to get dumped, but when the Ex starts dating again then it becomes really painful.
That is why you are so angry. Running around and telling everyone what a stupid cow she is and how dumb the new guy must be doesn't help you one bit, it just backfires.Your claim that the bitch turned ugly the precise moment you parted ways is of course not very convincing, it's also textbook rationalising.

Vendetta, bonding is a general industry practice and your definition of a contract is wrong of course. Buying a train ticket is agreeing on a contract. Conditions of a contract are only bound by the agreement of the parties and the applicable legislation.Oi777 is right by pointing out these bonds not matter had you plans to stay anyway. I totally agree with you that our contract offers no security, but at least in my case the alternatives would be to work in a more secured environment but double the hours for half the money ( like FC now), having the same problem elsewhere just with a different plantation owner, or I would need to build a time machine and learn a more useful profession.

Oasis and Rie,

I really hope you are right and there will be a shortage once the markets open up. Our only chance for improved conditions and/or productivity pay. But strangely whenever we talk about a shortage in here, it's never in the present, always just about to happen very soon...

Bloody hell, like a broken record yet again.

I don't know who you think I am, but I, like hundreds, possibly a thousand CX pilots, resigned of their own volition in the last 18 months.

Sure, I'm angry, like the hundreds of us who resigned voluntarily, as we had always thought CX was a career airline, from which we would retire are 55/65, after riding a gravy train for decades. That turned out to not be the case, which was annoying.

Changing carriers isn't fun at the best of times for old gits like me. But as it turns out, the timing was indeed good, and many of us are far better off now than if we had stayed, and life is bloody good!

Kisses, FC.

[VforVENDETTA]

FC, It hurts to get dumped, but when the Ex starts dating again then it becomes really painful.
That is why you are so angry. Running around and telling everyone what a stupid cow she is and how dumb the new guy must be doesn't help you one bit, it just backfires.Your claim that the bitch turned ugly the precise moment you parted ways is of course not very convincing, it's also textbook rationalising.

Vendetta, bonding is a general industry practice and your definition of a contract is wrong of course. Buying a train ticket is agreeing on a contract. Conditions of a contract are only bound by the agreement of the parties and the applicable legislation.Oi777 is right by pointing out these bonds not matter had you plans to stay anyway. I totally agree with you that our contract offers no security, but at least in my case the alternatives would be to work in a more secured environment but double the hours for half the money ( like FC now), having the same problem elsewhere just with a different plantation owner, or I would need to build a time machine and learn a more useful profession.

Oasis and Rie,

I really hope you are right and there will be a shortage once the markets open up. Our only chance for improved conditions and/or productivity pay. But strangely whenever we talk about a shortage in here, it's never in the present, always just about to happen very soon...

We're talking about "employment contracts" not "train tickets". Focus and stay on subject.

If bonding is such general industry practice then why is that I have never been at an airline with bonding after 30 years and 10 different airlines?

Bonding is the clear sign of a ****ty employer in a part of the world which is lacking in legal standards where an employment contract is not worth the toilet paper it is signed on. In these places, the pay rates will have to be very high (much higher than places where high legal standards exist) to account for the career risk involved to go work there or one has to be very desperate to have no other choice to accept the job there. This kind of desperate who isn't lucky enough to have any other choice does not want to hear the reality of what ****ty situation he/she is in. It's obvious you fall in this category from your posts, stw.

[Flying Clog]

The nail and the hammer meet again. Well said VforV

[cxflog]

The nail and the hammer meet again. Well said VforV
Idk how you are able to keep replying to the garbage STW posts on here. He 100% gets a kick out of the responses though so I definitely think it’s worth to just ignore it all…

[MENELAUS]

Idk how you are able to keep replying to the garbage STW posts on here. He 100% gets a kick out of the responses though so I definitely think it’s worth to just ignore it all…


Indeed. And move on. Which you’ve allegedly done. Or not ?
We were all treated badly over this. Quite frankly **** em and move on. Otherwise it will churn you up pretty badly.
And sadly HK is now stuffed. Why on earth would you go there ? The riots set the scene for future. A crying shame. My home ( and my childrens) for nigh on 30 years.
But sadly Winnie the Pooh has decided to **** the place over. Who’ll stop him ? And at the end of the day in 10 years time CX will be consigned to the annals of history along with Pan Am, TWA, Bcal, Ansett etc etc And no one will give a toss.
Except perhaps STW.

[MENELAUS]

Just the third rewrite then ?
You must do what is correct for you. Although don’t expect others to either understand it nor indeed wish to emulate it.
HKG is but a pale shadow of its former self. And no longer a particularly nice place to either visit or live in. That’s why some of us took the one way flight out of there.
As to your earnings and finances etc. I wish you many happy years in retirement to spend it. Hopefully with your health intact, after all you’ve been put through.

[Piet Lood]

I am neither emotionally attached to my employer nor do I concur with the political direction of Hong Kong or Beijing. I neither like nor dislike Cathay, I base my decision as closely as possible on reason. I don't see management as my friends, I expect them to act against my interests. I am totally indifferent towards management, but admit I find it mind-boggling how people mix up micro and macro causations, as the Musk commentary above beautifully demonstrates. I certainly don't think accepting even worse conditions elsewhere is a smart way of taking revenge for hurt feelings over a lost contract. I can assure you that the moment I get off that last flight I won't look back, as opposed to some sad individuals in here.

The current year will be financially the best year in my career and I don't get paid in Euro-Lira, don't work 100 hrs or pay 45% tax. I don't want to be in the right seat again, I don't want to earn half or less, I don't want to commute and I don't have a green card and I don't want to live in the desert. My cost base in HK is low, we have a double income and my kids get a supreme education. Having said that, of course there might be very good reasons for others to leave. I don't judge those who leave, of course not. I actually hope more would leave, since market forces are the only way to improve conditions. Maybe I leave next year, maybe in 10, who knows. But telling me staying is equal to support of the politics, managenent or just being blind to the risks is simply moronic.

https://youtu.be/VnT7pT6zCcA

[PPRuNeUser0163]

I am neither emotionally attached to my employer nor do I concur with the political direction of Hong Kong or Beijing. I neither like nor dislike Cathay, I base my decision as closely as possible on reason. I don't see management as my friends, I expect them to act against my interests. I am totally indifferent towards management, but admit I find it mind-boggling how people mix up micro and macro causations, as the Musk commentary above beautifully demonstrates. I certainly don't think accepting even worse conditions elsewhere is a smart way of taking revenge for hurt feelings over a lost contract. I can assure you that the moment I get off that last flight I won't look back, as opposed to some sad individuals in here.

The current year will be financially the best year in my career and I don't get paid in Euro-Lira, don't work 100 hrs or pay 45% tax. I don't want to be in the right seat again, I don't want to earn half or less, I don't want to commute and I don't have a green card and I don't want to live in the desert. My cost base in HK is low, we have a double income and my kids get a supreme education. Having said that, of course there might be very good reasons for others to leave. I don't judge those who leave, of course not. I actually hope more would leave, since market forces are the only way to improve conditions. Maybe I leave next year, maybe in 10, who knows. But telling me staying is equal to support of the politics, managenent or just being blind to the risks is simply moronic.

Everyone needs to make their own call STW but more then 1000 of your colleagues who have voted with their feet, many with kids have made the call to get them to a country which respects human rights, provides an actual supreme education which recognises history as it is not in rose tinted glasses to Chinas advantage and doesn’t make their babies walk around in masks.

The argument about separating politics vs wage/ low tax is to me beyond delusional, it shows Stockholm syndrome to the extreme and a very rudimentary understanding of the past. The only constant is that history repeats itself and a failure to understand that is naive in my view.

Good luck with the future there, I hope it goes well!
Unlike others who wish to see the downfall of CX or HK I actually don’t, I’m just much happier breathing fresh air, living somewhere which respects freedom of speech and being able to raise a family in a place that doesn’t dictate every word that comes out of their mouth.
Because to me, that is priceless!

[raven11]

Never before was there an airline that better exemplified the proverb that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What’s more, Cathay now expects the monkeys to pledge their own peanuts in order to be hired.

When I joined Cathay in 1991 every experienced career pilot under 40 was the targeted recruit. Those of us fortunate enough to have made the cut were extremely proud of the accomplishment. We were well looked after, well compensated, and we knew it. Every single Cathay pilot was proud to wear the uniform. Then it all began to change in the early nineties when the corporate culture suddenly turned poisonous. Commitment days they called it. Every company employee was ordered to attend meetings where they were peddled the poison, told that the future of the company was in peril, and that it was the selfish pilots who were responsible.

Pilots were singled out, insulted and demeaned; then given an ultimatum to sign a new diminished contract or face the consequences. We took them to court confident that the legal and binding nature of our employment contract would protect us. We lost. The judge ruled that, although yes the contract was binding….it was binding in honour only. The Company embraced the dishonour and declared victory. This court case was the first in what became a series of legal losses which signaled to all that in Hong Kong the law was whatever the corporate masters said it was. As such, as an employer of pilots Cathay became more and more brazen and the working environment more toxic. For example, firing 49 pilots without cause in 2001. An act that in any other modern country, with even a shred of human rights, would have landed them in court where they would have been harshly punished for such arrogant, unscrupulous and archaic conduct. Instead, things only continued to deteriorate. Still don’t believe me? Then ask any one of the massive number of pilots that have left this sinking ship over the past few years.

Today the compensation package and work conditions imposed on pilots at Cathay is near the bottom of what is paid in every other western jurisdiction.

Any pilot considering an offer of peanuts from Cathay need only search google to read the whole sordid labour history. Compensation (peanuts) and benefits (of which there are now very little) do not even begin to meet what is required to raise a family in Hong Kong. Life in Hong Kong under the current conditions of service is unreasonable, unsustainable, stressful and unhealthy. Please be warned.

[Oli777]

Never before was there an airline that better exemplified the proverb that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What’s more, Cathay now expects the monkeys to pledge their own peanuts in order to be hired.

When I joined Cathay in 1991 every experienced career pilot under 40 was the targeted recruit. Those of us fortunate enough to have made the cut were extremely proud of the accomplishment. We were well looked after, well compensated, and we knew it. Every single Cathay pilot was proud to wear the uniform. Then it all began to change in the early nineties when the corporate culture suddenly turned poisonous. Commitment days they called it. Every company employee was ordered to attend meetings where they were peddled the poison, told that the future of the company was in peril, and that it was the selfish pilots who were responsible.

Pilots were singled out, insulted and demeaned; then given an ultimatum to sign a new diminished contract or face the consequences. We took them to court confident that the legal and binding nature of our employment contract would protect us. We lost. The judge ruled that, although yes the contract was binding….it was binding in honour only. The Company embraced the dishonour and declared victory. This court case was the first in what became a series of legal losses which signaled to all that in Hong Kong the law was whatever the corporate masters said it was. As such, as an employer of pilots Cathay became more and more brazen and the working environment more toxic. For example, firing 49 pilots without cause in 2001. An act that in any other modern country, with even a shred of human rights, would have landed them in court where they would have been harshly punished for such arrogant, unscrupulous and archaic conduct. Instead, things only continued to deteriorate. Still don’t believe me? Then ask any one of the massive number of pilots that have left this sinking ship over the past few years.

Today the compensation package and work conditions imposed on pilots at Cathay is near the bottom of what is paid in every other western jurisdiction.

Any pilot considering an offer of peanuts from Cathay need only search google to read the whole sordid labour history. Compensation (peanuts) and benefits (of which there are now very little) do not even begin to meet what is required to raise a family in Hong Kong. Life in Hong Kong under the current conditions of service is unreasonable, unsustainable, stressful and unhealthy. Please be warned.

------

I'm long out of HK but am looking at the new Cathay website and pay scale for an FO:

837,000 HKD (yes yes if you reach set hours etc)
69,750 pm - 17% tax
57,892 net
rent lets say 25,000 (that's really decent) but they say 20,000 allowance... but I'll just ignore that and say 0 housing allwance
transport, food, entertainment 15,000
17,892 end of month

what other expenses is Cathay taking off your salary each month? and what do people currently spend on things for this amount of anger?

[Rie]

------

I'm long out of HK but am looking at the new Cathay website and pay scale for an FO:

837,000 HKD (yes yes if you reach set hours etc)
69,750 pm - 17% tax
57,892 net
rent lets say 25,000 (that's really decent) but they say 20,000 allowance... but I'll just ignore that and say 0 housing allwance
transport, food, entertainment 15,000
17,892 end of month

what other expenses is Cathay taking off your salary each month? and what do people currently spend on things for this amount of anger?

Tax rate on 70k works out more like 10%. You also forgot mpf deductions. Don't forget yearly medical costs. First year of tax you'll have to save up for the provisional unless you get exemption. That'll drag down your savings overall.

For most new starters rent is more likely to be under 20k as it's just not going to work in town anymore. Even a 250sqft walk up is 16-18k. Add in a few taxi trips when the AE is not running, a couple of nights out in LKF and a meal or two in SOHO and you won't even be able to live. Tung Chung is probably the future of any COS18 starter live on Cup Noodles and $20 Char Siu Fan.

[Oli777]

Tax rate on 70k works out more like 10%. You also forgot mpf deductions. Don't forget yearly medical costs. First year of tax you'll have to save up for the provisional unless you get exemption. That'll drag down your savings overall.

For most new starters rent is more likely to be under 20k as it's just not going to work in town anymore. Even a 250sqft walk up is 16-18k. Add in a few taxi trips when the AE is not running, a couple of nights out in LKF and a meal or two in SOHO and you won't even be able to live. Tung Chung is probably the future of any COS18 starter live on Cup Noodles and $20 Char Siu Fan.

----

But I'm still not seeing this massive broke hole so to speak?
70000HKD - 10% tax (sure you pay upfront, a lot of countries do that... but irrelevant as we all pay tax)
63,000 net
with zero housing allowance
20,000 rent
43,000 now..
Can you give an idea of the size mpf deductions (you are still getting this fund, its just a pension) and what yearly medical costs if Cathay is paying for your medical insurance? used to be 6% mpf.
So 6% of 70,000 = 4200pm into a pension...

still leaves you with around 39000HKD for transport + food? Am I close...

[ChrissyPrezzie]

----

But I'm still not seeing this massive broke hole so to speak?
70000HKD - 10% tax (sure you pay upfront, a lot of countries do that... but irrelevant as we all pay tax)
63,000 net
with zero housing allowance
20,000 rent
43,000 now..
Can you give an idea of the size mpf deductions (you are still getting this fund, its just a pension) and what yearly medical costs if Cathay is paying for your medical insurance? used to be 6% mpf.
So 6% of 70,000 = 4200pm into a pension...

still leaves you with around 39000HKD for transport + food? Am I close...

What about education for your kids? You left that part out of your equation. Schools are expensive in Hong Kong every one knows that, unless you are planning onto sending your kids to a local school where they are taught to be a copy machine...I think your 39k is going to disappear very quickly.

[Gnadenburg]

It’s called aviation poverty. It’s sad-it’s real. I’ve seen crew take passenger meals off the aircraft, to the hotel to make ends meet. This was COS 18 pilots pre-COVID and post-COVID in another life. Extraordinary and sad. Aviation poverty is very real and I guess you go on as long as the body holds out.

I’ve worked for five airlines. The one that sees high turnover & the potential for runners, had a bond. Originally KA didn’t have a bond. And if you did the command within a year or two the training investment was extraordinary. Towards the end, KA probably had a bond for COS 18 as we had guys doing runners after getting sign on bonuses as well as the new normal of losing guys in odd circumstances- a new joiner, a bit nervy of his check, smoked a few joints the night before and was caught in the testing; much to the shock of everyone but those on the line!

[Oli777]

What about education for your kids? You left that part out of your equation. Schools are expensive in Hong Kong every one knows that, unless you are planning onto sending your kids to a local school where they are taught to be a copy machine...I think your 39k is going to disappear very quickly.

-----------

Sure, if your child goes to school and that's around 140,000HKD a year so around 12000HKD pm, that still leaves you with 27000HKD extra per month. With "a child" in mind one has to take in the wife's salary surely?
I'm still not seeing how young people are going off the rails because they can't make ends meet? Are they spending way above their means and now blame the system, or maybe their wife stays home and spends a fortune to fit in?
The above scenarios in the thread still take into account zero housing allowance.

[veryoldchinahand]

I dont know what schools you send your kids to but most cost nothing like HK$140K p.a. I have kids and grandchildren at school here Oli777 do you ?

[Babyjet_dododo]

I dont know what schools you send your kids to but most cost nothing like HK$140K p.a. I have kids and grandchildren at school here Oli777 do you ?

Really? You looked at the fees for ESF? How about other international schools? Clearly you have no idea.

I know I don’t have to spend that much money for schooling and send my kids to a local school, but I want my kids to be able to think outside the box and succeed in their chosen career instead of rote learning everything.

[BuzzBox]

I dont know what schools you send your kids to but most cost nothing like HK$140K p.a. I have kids and grandchildren at school here Oli777 do you ?

During my time in Hong Kong, DBIS was a popular school for the plethora of CX families living in Discovery Bay. The current fees at DBIS range from HK$122,800 p.a for a five year old attending kindergarten, up to HK$185,500 for a 17 year old in Year 12. On top of that, there's a one-time non-refundable development levy of HK$60,000, payable on entry.

The Australian International School was another popular school. The fees at AIS range from HK$107K for a child in reception, up to HK$223K for a child in Year 12. There's also an annual capital levy of HK$22,000, or a depreciating debenture of HK$120,000 per student that must be re-purchased after eight years.

Things aren't much better at the ESF schools, where it costs HK$119,100 p/a for a child in primary school, up to HK$144,700 for a child in Year 12, plus a one-time non-refundable capital levy of HK$38,000 for a child entering Year 1.

So, for a family with two school age children, you could potentially be looking at paying anywhere between HK$214,000 p.a (HK$17,833 p.m) and HK$446,000 p.a. (HK$37,166 p.m), depending on the ages of the children and the choice of school, plus the capital/development levy.

[ChrissyPrezzie]

BuzzBox - Sounds about right.

Oli777 - My kids are going to international schools at the moment and I can guarantee you the fees we are paying is much higher than what you quoted. Fortunately I left Cathay few years ago and the money I'm making right now is WAY enough to cover the cost. By the way, some women would choose to stay home and take care of their kids, because to them, those are the important time they do not want to miss. With Cathay's current package, I hardly think the mums could do that, let alone about buying a flat!

[Babyjet_dododo]

BuzzBox - Sounds about right.

Oli777 - My kids are going to international schools at the moment and I can guarantee you the fees we are paying is much higher than what you quoted. Fortunately I left Cathay few years ago and the money I'm making right now is WAY enough to cover the cost. By the way, some women would choose to stay home and take care of their kids, because to them, those are the important time they do not want to miss. With Cathay's current package, I hardly think the mums could do that, let alone about buying a flat!

Nothing beats two parents working just to afford to survive living in HK in a tiny shoebox!

[Flying Clog]

BuzzBox is bang on.

[fire wall]

I dont know what schools you send your kids to but most cost nothing like HK$140K p.a. I have kids and grandchildren at school here Oli777 do you ?
Kids and Grandchildren at school at the same time?
Have you been playing up down at the bars in "East Admiralty" you senile old git ?

[MDRT22]

OMG. I have many friends who are doctors, lawyers, engineers and I never heard of anyone saying anything about Bond. Pilots are under that "Professional" job category but they need to enter a Bond?? Wow. This is so new to me.

[Sea Eggs]

When I left HKG in the 80s, I second guessed my decision often. There were a couple of sh1tty years but things worked out well at the end.

Move on.

[Xwindldg]

I dont know what schools you send your kids to but most cost nothing like HK$140K p.a. I have kids and grandchildren at school here Oli777 do you ?


Veryoldchinahand you are absolutely clueless. Nearly all the international schools cost this amount or more in HKG.

You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.

[PilotEt]

It's becoming more obvious that companies will do anything to enslave their employees!

[el commandante]

If Elon Musk took over Cathay today, he would have fired all top brass with no mercy and shaked up the whole company in a week time, just like what he is doing with Twitter right now. He would have folded the IT department and brought in his staffs from Tesla to revamp everything. This is 2022. We need someone like Musk to be in charge!
and you would be an astronaut

[veryoldchinahand]

Fire Wall
Yes, my youngest boy is still at school and my eldest boy has children. Is that so very odd ?
It is rather difficult to understand the motivation for your childlike rudeness but then there probably is no cohesive reasoning .
Possibly trip to your local shrink may prove beneficial as clearly you have issues that you find difficult to manage.
I fervently hope that you are not still flying.
Xindldg. I have been paying HK school fees for the past 29 years and over the years they have crept up beyond that I had realised and you are absolutely correct this year we are paying HK$140K for our youngest boy

[Oli777]

29 years? I can't be the only one wondering about this :E damn boy

[Oasis]

You're paying your grandchild's school fees?

Sweet deal for your son.

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

You can’t work out how someone might pay school fees for 29 years? I’d stick to the simple arithmetic of descent calculations if I was you. 😂

[veryoldchinahand]

The simple answer to any mystery is very simple - several sons -two wives (the first one tragically past away at a young age). Eldest boy 32 youngest 16
No mystery here -move along please