Sunderland airshow cancelled due to climate change.

[uxb99]

Sunderland Airshow axed over climate change - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63292905?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_custom4=81906790-4E40-11ED-9FF1-0DA84744363C&at_custom3=%40BBCNews&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom2=twitter)

If this is the shape of things to come I'm glad I attended as many shows as I was able when younger.

[Mike Flynn]

Typical Labour council. I hope they enjoy a cold winter huddled around their candles.

[Pypard]

Typical Labour council. I hope they enjoy a cold winter huddled around their candles.

So Labour are to blame for climate change? That is really desperate.

[Flying Binghi]

So Labour are to blame for climate change? That is really desperate.

Without the true believers the modern version of ‘climate change’ would not exist..:)

Old fashioned climate change would still exist:
.A new study details how a much warmer climate than today led to the disappearance of glaciers and ice caps during the sub-300 ppm CO2 Early to Middle Holocene. The Arctic’s modern ice extent is among the largest of the last 10,000 years.



https://notrickszone.com/2022/08/29/arctic-wide-glaciers-and-ice-caps-were-absent-or-smaller-than-today-from-10000-to-3000-years-ago/

[megan]

Funnily enough saw a doco a few days ago by climatologist explaining how climate change was responsible for the collapse of the Egyptian Pharaoh civilisation and creation of the Sahara desert.

[Flying Binghi]

Funnily enough saw a doco a few days ago by climatologist explaining how climate change was responsible for the collapse of the Egyptian Pharaoh civilisation and creation of the Sahara desert.
Sounds about right.

About 2300 years ago these comments were written:

“…If it is true what the Cretans among others say, that nowadays the winters are more severe and more snow falls, adducing as evidence that the mountains were settled in olden times and supported both cereal and tree crop as the land was planted and tilled (for there are extensive plains among the mountains of Ida and in the other mountains, none of which are worked now because they do not bear, whereas in those days, as we have said, they were settled, as a result of which the island was populous, because then the rains were generous, while snowfalls and wintery weather did not often occur), if then this is true, as we say, the Etesian winds must be more numerous today…”


Rewriting the History of Climate Change in Ancient Greece ? PPEH Lab (http://ppehlab.squarespace.com/blogposts/2016/1/27/rewriting-the-history-of-climate-change-in-ancient-greece)

[jolihokistix]

Looking down the BBC page link above under 'More on this Story', it was cancelled in 2019 for 'bad weather', in 2020 for 'Corona virus' and in 2021 for 'Corona Virus' again. The only thing that has changed is the excuse given. Useful phrase, this 'climate change'.

[Load Toad]

Typical Labour council. I hope they enjoy a cold winter huddled around their candles.

The Tories have been in control for 12 years and this year people are facing power cuts, loss of pensions, increased fuel bills, and inflation...


'....but Corbyn!'

[ATNotts]

Is there a connection between climate change deniers and anti vaxxers?

Leaving aside the reason / excuse given for the cancellation I suspect a combination of H&S and cost has more to do with it.

[The Flying Stool]

Definately an excuse. The Sunderland Airshow had been in decline for a number of years before the universal covid/climate change excuse. During the 2019 airshow, a BAC Strikemaster burst at tyre on landing at Newcastle airport which caused a number of diversions on a peak weekend at the end of July.

Having said that, I have some very fond memories of the Sunderland Airshow which formed part of my childhood. Some of my recollections from past shows include:

B52 Flypast
F117A Flypast
Concorde Flypast
Sea Harrier and GR7 Duo
SU27 Anatoli Kovatur
SU26 Sventlana and Nikolia Timofeev
Jaguar
Tornado F3
Tornado GR1/4 then Role demo
Hawk
Tucano
Nimrod
BBMF
Red Arrows
RAF Falcons + Hercules Flypast
Red Devils
Black Cats Lynx
Blue Eagles 4× Gazelles 1x Lynx
Typhoon
Sea King SAR Demo
Chinook
Merlin
Belgian F16
Dutch F16
Danish F16
Patroulle Chysteline Fouga Magister trio
Dutch F27 shutting down an engine
Dutch PC-7
Belgian Fouga Magister
Catalina
B-17
Gill Air ATR
Eastern J41
DHL 757
Blenheim/Lysander Duo
Meteor/Vampire Duo
Vulcan- Boring
Royal Jordanian Falcons
Miss Demeanour Hunter F58
Fairey Swordfish
Fairey Firefly
Hawker Sea Fury
Hawker Sea Hawk
Will Curtis SU26
Nanchang CJ6
Christen Eagle
Newcastle Aero Club
Utterly Butterly Wing Walkers
Saab Drakken
Strikemaster Pair
Jet Provost Pair
Glider team (Guy Westgate)
Matadores 2x SU26
Mig 15
F-86 Sabre
Norwegian Vampire pair
Swiss PC-7 Team
Swedish Saab 105
P-40 Peter Teichman
Air Ambulance twin squirrel operating from arena

All in all, some impressive line ups over the years. Anyone got any more to add to the list?

[Krystal n chips]

Looking down the BBC page link above under 'More on this Story', it was cancelled in 2019 for 'bad weather', in 2020 for 'Corona virus' and in 2021 for 'Corona Virus' again. The only thing that has changed is the excuse given. Useful phrase, this 'climate change'.

Indeed, becoming increasingly popular to hide a multitude of sins.

A touch ironic however, given Sunderland's location, proximity to the N.Sea ... thence to the Urals where anything above +16C constitutes tropical

[GeeRam]

My gut feeling is by the end of this decade, what remaining airshows there still are in the UK today, will have all largely disappeared as a result of pressures from the eco-warriors.

[DaveReidUK]

Is there a connection between climate change deniers and anti vaxxers?

I suspect a Venn diagram showing the two groups would have a pretty large intersection ...

[pax britanica]

Leaving aside the politics one has to question the presentation of this.

It cannot seriously be due to climate change since one airshow will have no impact whatsoever, so if they want to cancel it, and I can understand they probably cannot afford it, then they should make it clear they are canceling as a gesture about aviation and the environment which is not wholly unreasonable.

If say United airlines said they were cutting 25% of their flights for five years then that might make a noticeable but small difference.

Casting aspersions about center-left parties is a bit daft at present when the current ruling party has visibly run the country into the ground economically, socially and reputationally because they sold their soul to the devil with blond hair.

[farsouth]

Definately an excuse. The Sunderland Airshow had been in decline for a number of years before the universal covid/climate change excuse. During the 2019 airshow, a BAC Strikemaster burst at tyre on landing at Newcastle airport which caused a number of diversions on a peak weekend at the end of July.

Having said that, I have some very fond memories of the Sunderland Airshow which formed part of my childhood. Some of my recollections from past shows include:

B52 Flypast
F117A Flypast
.
.
​​​​​…
Vulcan- Boring
.
.
​​​​​…
P-40 Peter Teichman
Air Ambulance twin squirrel operating from arena

All in all, some impressive line ups over the years. Anyone got any more to add to the list?

Was that a mis-print, or did you genuinely find the Vulcan boring?
It was my absolute favourite air display aircraft of all time to watch (and listen to) 🙂

[Ohrly]

The Triathlon World Championships eh?

Between January and October 2019 staff of the ITU took 1,471 flights covering 4,181,200 km and producing approximately 790 tonnes of CO2.

The Triathlon World Series events have roughly 120 athletes competing from all over the world, all of which will need to travel to Sunderland along with coaching and technical staff, family, friends and other associated hangers on.

I would suggest that the "environmental impact" of a small airshow mostly attended by locals will produce orders of magnitude less CO2 than an international sporting event.

[Dave Gittins]

The excuse is that they want it to be carbon neutral. That rules out just about any aeroplane likely to be worth watching and with a few exceptions under trial all the rest of them too

[TCU]

Definately an excuse. The Sunderland Airshow had been in decline for a number of years before the universal covid/climate change excuse. During the 2019 airshow, a BAC Strikemaster burst at tyre on landing at Newcastle airport which caused a number of diversions on a peak weekend at the end of July.

Having said that, I have some very fond memories of the Sunderland Airshow which formed part of my childhood. Some of my recollections from past shows include:

Black Cats Lynx

All in all, some impressive line ups over the years. Anyone got any more to add to the list?

The Black Cats Lynx would have gone down very well in Sunderland

[DaveReidUK]

If say United airlines said they were cutting 25% of their flights for five years then that might make a noticeable but small difference.

Sunderland Council asked United to do exactly that.

United told them to f*ck *ff.

[SWBKCB]

Definately an excuse. The Sunderland Airshow had been in decline for a number of years before the universal covid/climate change excuse. During the 2019 airshow, a BAC Strikemaster burst at tyre on landing at Newcastle airport which caused a number of diversions on a peak weekend at the end of July

In terms of aviation interest maybe (like most airshows) but attendances were fine. Not sure of the relevance of the Strikemaster to the cancellation?

The Triathlon World Championships eh?

Between January and October 2019 staff of the ITU took 1,471 flights covering 4,181,200 km and producing approximately 790 tonnes of CO2.

The Triathlon World Series events have roughly 120 athletes competing from all over the world, all of which will need to travel to Sunderland along with coaching and technical staff, family, friends and other associated hangers on.

I would suggest that the "environmental impact" of a small airshow mostly attended by locals will produce orders of magnitude less CO2 than an international sporting event.

It's the spectators attending the event which have the carbon impact. Isn't the Tour de France the sporting event with the largest carbon footprint?

[bobward]

My local town held its first ever air show off the main beach a couple of years ago. They then decided not to hold anymore, mainly due to the high costs of insurance and security.
At least that was a more honest reason than the currently in-vogue, protecting the environment......

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I suspect a Venn diagram showing the two groups would have a pretty large intersection ...
Stop thinking like an extremist, there is nuance here.
1. "Climate change denial" - the absolutist position, climate has always been the same, there's a benchmark "normal". This is the "flat earth" science denial position
2. Man made climate change denier - Climate has always been dynamic, there's a load of evidence climate changed long before the coming of man's industrial revolution. This set believes that you can stop oil tomorrow and the climate will continue to warm and cool as it always has.

We conflate 1 and 2 above as if they are the same, they're not. There are a load of variables involved, of which one is human produced CO2. To lay the blame on man and ignore the weight of the other variables which have been changing climate since we had one, is religious belief fueled by junk modelling where funded scientists give added weight to certain variables to get funding. We should deffo pollute less, but the eco-alarmists couldn't understand a weighted model if their lives depended on it, and COVID modelling should have shown you how political "Science" can be. But what do I know, I only build models for clients for a living....

[N707ZS]

Council didn't like to say they are skint and the number of available aircraft for displays are down. They cannot blame covid this year so 10 points for the new eco excuse.

[The Flying Stool]

An omission of the Vulcan on my part. However, its early displays after its return to flight were actually quite dull. At Sunderland in around 2010 for example, it flew a very sedate display which was basically a few flypasts- no howling, no steep climbs, wing overs etc. I'm pretty convinced it crossed over the horizon at one point. It was only in its latter couple of years that they really started to throw it around and make lots of noise.

Having said that, I'd gladly pay through the nise to see it again!

I always thought a Sunderland Council were missing a trick by not charging a nominal entry free to the show ground which would both bring in a substantial revenue stream but also keep out the human detritus who would turn up with a football and a few bottles of cider who would get progressively more severely sunburned throughout the day!

All ancient history and happy memories now though!

[Tango and Cash]

It's happening to at least one airshow over here in the colonies too. The Alliance (Fort Worth) airshow has been reduced to one day, in part to be more 'sustainable'.

Formerly great event continues to go downhill due to rising cost of attendance (parking/admission charge is $80 this year!), increasing noise complaints by the new neighbors (the airport was here first and hard to miss), and operational constraints (Amazon is not willing to pause operations for more than a couple hours).

Glad I was able to attend in the days when there was actually a static display and an entire day of aerial acts.

*As I'm typing this, I wonder if they mean sustainable from an environmental perspective or from their financial perspective... or maybe both.

[uxb99]

"An omission of the Vulcan on my part. However, its early displays after its return to flight were actually quite dull." - Kind of agree. The roar as it took off at Weald with low cloud and that wail and howl as it climbed out in 89 ? The Chickens didn't fare too well.

I'm all for supporting climate change and the planet but are we humans allowed to enjoy anything anymore?
Activists do realise the whole point of life IS to enjoy it. If the eco warriors get everything banned, it's going to be a very lonely place.

As to the fate of seaside air shows. What happened to some of the stalwarts like Southend? Used to enjoy that one and you could get stuck at the end of the pier for the Vulcan display. Now that was something.

[Cat3508]

[QUOTE=ATNotts;11315869]Is there a connection between climate change deniers and anti vaxxers?

According to Australian Sky News presenters, that is very much the case.
.

[ShyTorque]

Funnily enough saw a doco a few days ago by climatologist explaining how climate change was responsible for the collapse of the Egyptian Pharaoh civilisation and creation of the Sahara desert.

Yes, but did they cancel THEIR airshow?

[Flying Binghi]

The demonic denier…

I. Difficulty. One of the fundamental and fatal difficulties of Atheism is that it is founded upon the denial of a first truth.

2. It cannot be denied without admitting it. The denial implies a denier; the denial is the effect of which the denier is the cause.

4. The denier knows that he states a falsehood in the denial: for if he did not believe in causality he would not and could not attempt the denial.

Skeletons, a course of theological lectures. Rev. Finney, vol 1, 1840


https://joannenova.com.au/2015/11/the-original-meaning-of-denier-was-those-who-reject-a-religion/
.
.
​​​​​…
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Oh, atheist me..:cool:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

The ONLY thing that 'Flat Earthers' have to fear........

Is Sphere itself.

Cheeerrrsss..................

[Flyhighfirst]

Stop thinking like an extremist, there is nuance here.
1. "Climate change denial" - the absolutist position, climate has always been the same, there's a benchmark "normal". This is the "flat earth" science denial position
2. Man made climate change denier - Climate has always been dynamic, there's a load of evidence climate changed long before the coming of man's industrial revolution. This set believes that you can stop oil tomorrow and the climate will continue to warm and cool as it always has.

We conflate 1 and 2 above as if they are the same, they're not. There are a load of variables involved, of which one is human produced CO2. To lay the blame on man and ignore the weight of the other variables which have been changing climate since we had one, is religious belief fueled by junk modelling where funded scientists give added weight to certain variables to get funding. We should deffo pollute less, but the eco-alarmists couldn't understand a weighted model if their lives depended on it, and COVID modelling should have shown you how political "Science" can be. But what do I know, I only build models for clients for a living....

There is a third as well. One which I fall in. Those who just think we will in the end just adapt to any changes. We as a species are terrible at change (just look at how many climate agreements have been made them broken or not met.. all of them I think), but are very good at adapting. Climate change happens over very long periods, making change harder but adaptation easier.

[DaveReidUK]

Climate change happens over very long periods, making change harder but adaptation easier.

Perfect illustration of Skippy's point:

This set believes that you can stop oil tomorrow and the climate will continue to warm and cool as it always has.

:O

[Asturias56]

The real issue is not climate change per se - it happens on about a 30,000 year cycle and its still currently warming. It's the rate of change - it has accelerated substantially since about 1500.

All the actions are to try and buy time so we have longer to adapt a- moving all those folk out of Florida for example

[Stationair8]

Will they cancel Christmas as well?

Sunderland must be a fun place to live!

[goofer3]

Camels, not Sopwith, affected by climate change.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x815/scan559_7_d0b261780a6591b1df93ca6526d996f2dc463457.jpg

[dixi188]

I know we have thread drift, but to get to camel extinction from Sunderland airshow must be some kind of record.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Actually its tectonic drift.

I hate it when threads go off at a tangent. Strictly speaking, of course, a tangent is a line intersecting an arc perpendicular to its radius.

[ATSA1]

Maybe Sunderland Council should have a camel racing event to compensate for the loss of the airshow?
To be honest, I think the age of the airshow is coming to a close...Think of the wonderful shows we had in the not too distant past..Mildenhall, Waddington, North Weald, St Athan, Valley, Finningley Prestwick, Leuchars, Biggin Hill, even Farnborough is a Trade only show now
For may organisers, they are just in the "too difficult" pile now..
Couple that with increasing restrictions on the aircraft that actually are available now, and all you get are a lot of little dots doing loops and rolls above 2000 ft or halfway to the next county!
No..Sunderland Council chose a very trendy excuse to cancel any future show, and keep the Environmentalists onside...

[Union Jack]

If only we had a real airworthy Sunderland to show....:hmm:

Jack

[fineline]

If we are to prevail in achieving a sustainable version of a modern, advanced civilisation we will need to teach kids who will spend the prime of their careers between now and a mid-century "net-zero" economy to:
(a) understand the climate itself, which is an aggregation of the weather
(b) hence a need to understand meteorology
© appreciate observable meteorological phenomena - cloud formations, wind speed and precipitation
(d) reason about how these relate to numerical data - temperature, pressure and humidity
(e) understand energy systems, the accumulation, conservation and conversion of energy
(f) understand power systems - engines, motors, and storage - legacy and emerging
(g) get a feel for why any of this matters - what the difference is between how we live now and the middle ages
(h) make it interesting, get their attention and make them care

I can't think of a better way to inspire this kind of thinking than an air show.

OR:

Just teach them "who's to blame", "who to vote for" and "how to feel depressed, scared and helpless" in the face of the challenges we face.

I guess the second one is easier and cheaper - why "educate" when you can settle for "indoctrinate".

I have these conversations a lot, with people who think "climate change" (a convenient proxy for the broader challenge of maintaining a sustainable civilisation going forward) is a "political" or "moral" issue. Saves having to actually do the sums, face up to the biggest "technical" challenge we have yet faced, and raise our kids accordingly.

I have great faith in the innovative and creative capacity of humanity to take on challenges such as this, but boy does that faith take a hit on a regular basis when I see intellectually lazy, morally cowardly nonsense like this.

[Asturias56]

"Sunderland must be a fun place to live!"

Known as "The Dark Place" by residents of Newcastle

[Pypard]

Without the true believers the modern version of ‘climate change’ would not exist..:)

Old fashioned climate change would still exist:
.A new study details how a much warmer climate than today led to the disappearance of glaciers and ice caps during the sub-300 ppm CO2 Early to Middle Holocene. The Arctic’s modern ice extent is among the largest of the last 10,000 years.https://notrickszone.com/2022/08/29/arctic-wide-glaciers-and-ice-caps-were-absent-or-smaller-than-today-from-10000-to-3000-years-ago/

None of which is an excuse to do nothing. But it won't stop people still trying to justify it. It's like saying you won't bother putting out a fire in your house if it's caused by lightning,

[Bindair Dundat]

If we are to prevail in achieving a sustainable version of a modern, advanced civilisation we will need to teach kids who will spend the prime of their careers between now and a mid-century "net-zero" economy to:
(a) understand the climate itself, which is an aggregation of the weather
(b) hence a need to understand meteorology
© appreciate observable meteorological phenomena - cloud formations, wind speed and precipitation
(d) reason about how these relate to numerical data - temperature, pressure and humidity
(e) understand energy systems, the accumulation, conservation and conversion of energy
(f) understand power systems - engines, motors, and storage - legacy and emerging
(g) get a feel for why any of this matters - what the difference is between how we live now and the middle ages
(h) make it interesting, get their attention and make them care

I can't think of a better way to inspire this kind of thinking than an air show.

OR:

Just teach them "who's to blame", "who to vote for" and "how to feel depressed, scared and helpless" in the face of the challenges we face.

I guess the second one is easier and cheaper - why "educate" when you can settle for "indoctrinate".

I have these conversations a lot, with people who think "climate change" (a convenient proxy for the broader challenge of maintaining a sustainable civilisation going forward) is a "political" or "moral" issue. Saves having to actually do the sums, face up to the biggest "technical" challenge we have yet faced, and raise our kids accordingly.

I have great faith in the innovative and creative capacity of humanity to take on challenges such as this, but boy does that faith take a hit on a regular basis when I see intellectually lazy, morally cowardly nonsense like this.

Couldn’t agree with this post more. The black and white naive thinking of the Covid response will be catastrophic when it comes to climate change. It appears that IS exactly what we are doing. Induce maximum fear, spend maximum dollars and produce suboptimal results, whilst a few just get richer in the process. The need for people to seek comfort in their tribe instead of actually using their brain is the biggest threat we have to humanity now.

[Low Level Pilot]

Probably due more to ecomomics. East Fortune air show used to be scheduled for the same day with an almost identical line-up. Presumably there would have been some sort of cost sharing. Once East Fortune scrubbed their airshow, weather was not reliable enough around here, Sunderland presumably would have had a poor return on their investment.

[Flying Binghi]

None of which is an excuse to do nothing. But it won't stop people still trying to justify it. It's like saying you won't bother putting out a fire in your house if it's caused by lightning,

Perhaps yer just need to point out that they’ve claimed the house to be on fire several times before when it weren’t …and it ain’t on fire now. Like all dooms day cults do, they just put their hands over their ears and just keep chanting the mantra..:hmm:

[POBJOY]

Council didn't like to say they are skint and the number of available aircraft for displays are down. They cannot blame covid this year so 10 points for the new eco excuse.

Councils are having to show they are trying to 'assist' the Carbon Neutral scenario.
Airshows are an easy target as they would find the visual effect of all those engines rather difficult to justify to the ratepayers who are subsidising it. Of course many of those RP's really enjoy the spectacle of it all, but the balance will be rather spoilt by the financial loss that it comes with.
We also have the Councils using the 'Work from Home' argument as their contribution to CC. Easy to show some benefit on paper at the Council meetings, but in truth the system is not really working as the WORK ELEMENT is difficult to proove as a 'service', with long delays in actually getting things done.
Covid has had a dramatic ongoing effect to everything, and Airshows are also caught up with the carbon debate so unless someone comes up with an 'offset plan' that is also a financial winner then the reality of local real airshows are a real issue for a local authority. These can be replaced by 'virtual shows' that offer some of the spectacle but in a different way. Eventually someone will 'reinvent' a real airshow again and we can start the wheel turning again. (may be a while though)

[Asturias56]

Perhaps yer just need to point out that they’ve claimed the house to be on fire several times before when it weren’t …and it ain’t on fire now. Like all dooms day cults do, they just put their hands over their ears and just keep chanting the mantra..:hmm:

Binghi - coming for a country that has seen records fires and floods in the last 10 years you might want to revisit your opinion................

[Flying Binghi]

Binghi - coming from a country that has seen record fires and floods in the last 10 years you might want to revisit your opinion................

News to me.

The largest extent fire in Australia’s recorded history were in the 1970’s. And the extent were only noted due to it being recorded via the new Landsat satellites.
For over 50,000 years Australians used to burn-off most of the place on a near annual basis so the fuel load were low. Nowadays thanks to modern farming practices and greeny stupidity we have less annual burn-offs that leave massive fuel loads to build up causing more intense fires when they inevitably happen. Nothing to do with ‘climate’ as such.

Reading the old news papers show the 1800’s as being the time of the ‘biggest’ floods. Though that predates television so do not exist in the minds of the climate cultists..:hmm:

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[Pypard]

Thankfully some of the head-in-the-sand opinions here are going the way of the dinosaur. There is no avoiding the evidence (real scientific evidence, not "my mate reckons") and whether you like it or not, the world is slowly abiding by the need to take action. Whether you agree with that doesn't matter one jot: frivolities such as airshows and motorsport don't register with the majority of mankind other than as unnecessary sources of stuff that contributes to a problem.

You stand a better chance at having a say if you engage rather than deny.

[Flying Binghi]

Thankfully some of the head-in-the-sand opinions here are going the way of the dinosaur. There is no avoiding the evidence (real scientific evidence, not "my mate reckons") and whether you like it or not, the world is slowly abiding by the need to take action. Whether you agree with that doesn't matter one jot: frivolities such as airshows and motorsport don't register with the majority of mankind other than as unnecessary sources of stuff that contributes to a problem.

You stand a better chance at having a say if you engage rather than deny.

I spot a bot.. …or maybe not. Lets see…

One would think if yer didn’t consider what your mate reckons then yer marriage would be short..


;)

[rudestuff]

Airshow cancelled due to climate change? There's one in Bahrain next week - why not hop on a great big jet airplane and go to that one instead?

[Asturias56]

lots of people fly from the NE of England to Dubai - especially in winter!

[Asturias56]

"News to me."

Perhaps this report from the CSIRO will help https://www.csiro.au/en/research/environmental-impacts/climate-change/State-of-the-Climate/Report-at-a-Glance

"Australia’s climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910, leading to an increase in the frequency of extreme heat events.

There has been a decline of around 16 per cent in April to October rainfall in the southwest of Australia since 1970. Across the same region May–July rainfall has seen the largest decrease, by around 20 per cent since 1970.
In the southeast of Australia there has been a decline of around 12 per cent in April to October rainfall since the late 1990s.
There has been a decrease in streamflow at the majority of streamflow gauges across southern Australia since 1975.
Rainfall and streamflow have increased across parts of northern Australia since the 1970s.
There has been an increase in extreme fire weather, and in the length of the fire season, across large parts of the country since the 1950s, especially in southern Australia.There has been a decrease in the number of tropical cyclones observed in the Australian region since 1982.
Oceans around Australia are acidifying and have warmed by around 1 °C since 1910, contributing to longer and more frequent marine heatwaves.
Sea levels are rising around Australia, including more frequent extremes, that are increasing the risk of inundation and damage to coastal infrastructure and communities.

[Pypard]

Won't be long before someone comes along and tells us not to trust the science. :ugh:

[Asturias56]

yes - it it often comes from people who fly and maintain machines that are totally dependent on advanced science :p

[Flying Binghi]

"News to me."

Perhaps this report from the CSIRO will help https://www.csiro.au/en/research/environmental-impacts/climate-change/State-of-the-Climate/Report-at-a-Glance

"Australia’s climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910, leading to an increase in the frequency of extreme heat events.

There has been a decline of around 16 per cent in April to October rainfall in the southwest of Australia since 1970. Across the same region May–July rainfall has seen the largest decrease, by around 20 per cent since 1970.
In the southeast of Australia there has been a decline of around 12 per cent in April to October rainfall since the late 1990s.
There has been a decrease in streamflow at the majority of streamflow gauges across southern Australia since 1975.
Rainfall and streamflow have increased across parts of northern Australia since the 1970s.
There has been an increase in extreme fire weather, and in the length of the fire season, across large parts of the country since the 1950s, especially in southern Australia.There has been a decrease in the number of tropical cyclones observed in the Australian region since 1982.
Oceans around Australia are acidifying and have warmed by around 1 °C since 1910, contributing to longer and more frequent marine heatwaves.
Sea levels are rising around Australia, including more frequent extremes, that are increasing the risk of inundation and damage to coastal infrastructure and communities.



Hmmm… why the cut-off of 1910. In many areas of Australia the records began in the mid 1800’s ?


Via the Asturias56 post: “…climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910…”


What happened the year before 1910, …i.e., thats what happened in the warm period that preceded 1910…

“…The hottest day ever recorded in Australia with modern official equipment was Jan 3rd, 1909 in Bourke where the temperature blistered at 51.7C…”


https://joannenova.com.au/2020/07/hottest-day-recorded-and-deleted-in-australia-was-51-7-in-bourke-in-1909/


Events of recent years have totally dis-credited the other CSIRO claims. If someone were that stupid that they relied on the CSIRO for ‘guidance’, well, the CSIRO has an out for that:

Information at this site:

Is general information provided as part of CSIRO's statutory role in the dissemination of information relating to scientific and technical matters;
Is not professional, scientific, medical, technical or expert advice;
Is subject to the usual uncertainties of advanced scientific and technical research;
May not be accurate, current or complete;
Is subject to change without notice; and
Should never be relied on as the basis for doing or failing to do something.


https://www.csiro.au/en/about/Policies/Legal/Legal-notice



:hmm: (https://www.csiro.au/en/about/Policies/Legal/Legal-notice)

[Asturias56]

well CSIRO are a better source than some guy you met in a bar or a US based website run by MAGA lunatics. And the get out clause only covers a 9 lines - by modern standards (check your car warranty) thats nuffin'.

" since national records began in 1910," = yes , there are records before 1910 but they're not standardised, the equipment was different, the observations were taken on different days at different times and sometimes not at all and there were very large areas where there were no records. I did a course years ago on weather observations and how careful you have to be to compare like with like. At one time local authorities in tourist towns in the UK used to place their daylight/sunshine kit on the highest point for miles to maximise the numbers so they could claim "we are the sunniest place in Dorset" etc. Oddly their rainfall gauges all seemed to be somewhat overhung by nearby buildings in a completely separate place.

[SWBKCB]

Maybe take the debate relating to climate change in Australia out of the Sunderland Airshow thread and into the relevant Jet Blast thread?

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/505111-climate-change-debate-138.html

[Flying Binghi]

Maybe take the debate relating to climate change in Australia out of the Sunderland Airshow thread and into the relevant Jet Blast thread?

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/505111-climate-change-debate-138.html

Oh, I thought it were supposed to be a global event. Did I miss something ?..:hmm:

[Flying Binghi]

well CSIRO are a better source than some guy you met in a bar or a US based website run by MAGA lunatics. And the get out clause only covers a 9 lines - by modern standards (check your car warranty) thats nuffin'.

" since national records began in 1910," = yes , there are records before 1910 but they're not standardised, the equipment was different, the observations were taken on different days at different times and sometimes not at all and there were very large areas where there were no records. I did a course years ago on weather observations and how careful you have to be to compare like with like. At one time local authorities in tourist towns in the UK used to place their daylight/sunshine kit on the highest point for miles to maximise the numbers so they could claim "we are the sunniest place in Dorset" etc. Oddly their rainfall gauges all seemed to be somewhat overhung by nearby buildings in a completely separate place.

:)…….:D

Asturia56, you sell used cars, don’t ya..;)


Have a re-read of the link I provided. It offers a fair amount of ‘illumination’ on the subject.


https://joannenova.com.au/2020/07/hottest-day-recorded-and-deleted-in-australia-was-51-7-in-bourke-in-1909/

[Asturias56]

"Asturia56, you sell used cars, don’t ya"

if you mean I actually look at the science yes - but that never suits the deniers. This year already Sydney has had more rain than Singapore - is that usual?

[Pypard]

"Asturia56, you sell used cars, don’t ya"

if you mean I actually look at the science yes - but that never suits the deniers. This year already Sydney has had more rain than Singapore - is that usual?

Not sure you'll get anywhere with this: as with many things in life, there is often a good/right way and a bad/wrong way. Some folks still take Option B. We have an opportunity to make the world a better place and you'd assume the response would be unanimous.

[Asturias56]

I hate to say it but time to get back to Sunderland........

[megan]

How we all wish Asturias, sigh.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x529/g296_ab1585d6b75b4798fd3a3c2752e0291d4a2db81b.jpg

[Flying Binghi]

"Asturia56, you sell used cars, don’t ya"

…
This year already Sydney has had more rain than Singapore - is that usual?

Apart from being in the tropics, I don’t know the Singapore rain story. You tell us what the numbers are for both and we will know.


:)

[Flying Binghi]

Not sure you'll get anywhere with this: as with many things in life, there is often a good/right way and a bad/wrong way. Some folks still take Option B. We have an opportunity to make the world a better place and you'd assume the response would be unanimous.

Yes. Imagine what society could achieve with cheap and reliable power supplies…

Unforetunatly, only the wealthy investors in solar and wind power benefit from the current situation. It is understandable why them investors don’t want the ‘global warming’ hysteria to stop. They just want to stop debate that shows up the climate hysteria for what it is..:hmm:

​​​​​…
.
.
​​​​​…
.
.

[Flying Binghi]

I hate to say it but time to get back to Sunderland........

If ‘global warming’ is discredited in Australia, then it is discredited in Sunderland..:)

[Asturias56]

Sunderland is a place that could do with serious global warming - cold, windy, dark

[SWBKCB]

Sunderland is a place that could do with serious global warming - cold, windy, dark

It is this morning, but sometimes it can be quite nice :ok:

[dr dre]

The largest extent fire in Australia’s recorded history were in the 1970’s. And the extent were only noted due to it being recorded via the new Landsat satellites.

That burned in outback grasslands where nobody lives. We’re talking about record intensity fires in the eucalyptus forest of the populated south east and south west.

For over 50,000 years Australians used to burn-off most of the place on a near annual basis so the fuel load were low.

Indigenous cultural burning is not modern hazard reduction burning.

Nowadays thanks to modern farming practices and greeny stupidity we have less annual burn-offs that leave massive fuel loads to build up causing more intense fires when they inevitably happen. Nothing to do with ‘climate’ as such.

No, it’s because a hotter and dryer climate makes hazard reduction burning more dangerous. Go speak to an actual firefighter (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/01/08/barnaby-joyce-hazard-reduction/amp/).
.

[Pypard]

Meanwhile the airshow is still cancelled and the climate change deniers will still be fiddling as each other show gets nixed. Quite funny really.

[Flying Binghi]

Meanwhile the airshow is still cancelled and the climate change deniers will still be fiddling as each other show gets nixed. Quite funny really.

I spot a bot..:hmm:


Plane spotters paradise, here’s the biggest air show on earth at the moment:

”…Climate delegates accused of hypocrisy as 400 private jets in Egypt for COP27…”


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/11/12/four-hundred-private-jets-attended-the-cop27-climate-conference/

[Flying Binghi]

That burned in outback grasslands where nobody lives. We’re talking about record intensity fires in the eucalyptus forest of the populated south east and south west.


Thank you for that dr dre.

Perhaps yer need tell them climate hysteria fanatics that. Seems they think speed and extent of spread of fire is also ‘intensity’ of fire. Personally, I’d prefer to fight a fast moving low fuel load desert fire then a high fuel load forest fire any day of the week..:)



Indigenous cultural burning is not modern hazard reduction burning.


Correct. Though, whats yer point.. ? Being very simplistic, if yer fire fighting in a paddock that has a low fuel load whats it matter how it came to have a low fuel load. (Variance can be a low fuel load via grazing or low fuel load of burnt areas being affected by unburnt ‘nature’ perimeters, etc…)



No, it’s because a hotter and dryer climate makes hazard reduction burning more dangerous. Go speak to an actual firefighter (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/01/08/barnaby-joyce-hazard-reduction/amp/).
.

That actual fire fighter you quoted got his job by government hire. Do you think he would be hired if he did not hold the ‘correct’ views?…:hmm: Seems when he were talking those ‘correct’ views he were in line for a new job… but now getting the sack: “…found to be bureaucratic and ineffective, with the agency to be dissolved…”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resilience_NSW




:hmm: (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resilience_NSW)

[Pypard]

I think we should let Mr head-in-the-sand have his tantrum and leave it there. Wiser folks than I seem to have got the point.

[Flying Binghi]

Seems the bot is in the deep end and doing a runner...;)

I think we should let Mr head-in-the-sand have his tantrum and leave it there. Wiser folks than I seem to have got the point.

If yer like sand so much yer can always go to Egypt. Big air show there at the moment..:D


Meanwhile, over in Japan. Apparently global warming ain’t so ‘global’ after all. A long term temperature record that has not been influenced by new buildings and roads being built around the met station does not show any ‘global’ warming…

“…For rural Hachijojima Island, June hasn’t warmed there since 1936…”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/07/03/june-in-tokyo-hachijojima-island-hasnt-warmed-in-decades/



.

:hmm: (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/07/03/june-in-tokyo-hachijojima-island-hasnt-warmed-in-decades/)