New captain in EU LLC, -> FO Qatar or Emirates?

[lacog]

Hi people,
passed both Emirates and Qatar interviews.
Pros and Cons? Spoke to an ex colleague who is in Qatar at the moment and he said he has 6 days off per month in a row and he is commuting back to europe and he is attaching 4-5 days each time so pretty much he is home in EU every month for almost 10 days.
What about Emirates? How many days do you expect to sleep home(in Dubai) with the family per month? Any days in a row off guaranteed per month?

Thank you everyone

PS Typical haters of middle east who never worked again in Europe since you left your legacy carrier and you think EU is good, stay away and do not flood this thread please

[WrldWide]

Spoke to an ex colleague who is in Qatar at the moment and he said he has 6 days off per month in a row and he is commuting back to europe and he is attaching 4-5 days each time so pretty much he is home in EU every month for almost 10 days.

Gonna have to raise the BS flag on that one. QR, In my seat on my fleet haven't had a block of six since 2019. And it is bid every month.

[Xulu]

If you've been accepted to EK, don't consider QR. Especially on Airbus.

You should absolutely leave EU LCC for a number of reasons. Whatever you are looking for from the career is here: money, routes, travel, luxury/pampering, family life, girls etc etc. Anything you want is at your doorstep. Expat life is very good for kids under 14, and expat life is exceptional for single guys. The only counter is if you (or your wife) have a close knit family in EU that you would be upset to be away from (And bidding for a trip home every month or two isn't enough for you).

[lacog]

If you've been accepted to EK, don't consider QR. Especially on Airbus.

You should absolutely leave EU LCC for a number of reasons. Whatever you are looking for from the career is here: money, routes, travel, luxury/pampering, family life, girls etc etc. Anything you want is at your doorstep. Expat life is very good for kids under 14, and expat life is exceptional for single guys. The only counter is if you (or your wife) have a close knit family in EU that you would be upset to be away from (And bidding for a trip home every month or two isn't enough for you).
both for b777, not airbus. been accepted in both.

I was more positive for qatar because of the 6 days off in a row every month but WrldWide says its BS.. however my friend confirmed that (he is flying 787 FO).

Seems like to me that flying for Qatar I can go home every month or 2 because they say you can split the annual leave to small blocks.. while in EK is not possible as people say on the forums..

Anyone with experience in EK can confirm that we cannot split the annual leave in small blocks etc?

Why I shouldn't consider QR compared to EK?

Thank you for your info

[dirk85]

It depends also on the European low cost you are leaving. Leaving let’s say easyJet is not the same as leaving Wizz, Vueling, Volotea or the likes

[CVividasku]

If you've been accepted to EK, don't consider QR. Especially on Airbus.

You should absolutely leave EU LCC for a number of reasons. Whatever you are looking for from the career is here: money, routes, travel, luxury/pampering, family life, girls etc etc. Anything you want is at your doorstep. Expat life is very good for kids under 14, and expat life is exceptional for single guys. The only counter is if you (or your wife) have a close knit family in EU that you would be upset to be away from (And bidding for a trip home every month or two isn't enough for you).
Could you elaborate a bit on that ?
I've heard the worst about the middle east, and the best, but you're speaking about it better than I've ever read !

[level_change]

Could you elaborate a bit on that ?
I've heard the worst about the middle east, and the best, but you're speaking about it better than I've ever read !

Because he is an indian bot trying to give you a wrong impression. Forget commuting at QR, it may be possible from time to time on 787 or 777 but you will burn out doing it. They also don't like to see it because you are supposed to spend your rials in town. BTW, if you have your 2 - 3 magic days off after a long haul trip and go home, you better swipe your RP at Hamad 12 hours before your next report, because if you don't it will be held against you the next time you call sick or complain about spending 1300 hours in the airplane in the last 12 months.

EU LLC or middle east ? best option is neither!

[aussiefarmer]

If you go to QR or EK is to live there not to commute.

You won't last long if your plan is to go home every month, forget about it. It just doesn't work.

[pippobaudo]

If you go to QR or EK is to live there not to commute.

You won't last long if your plan is to go home every month, forget about it. It just doesn't work.

True true! With an average of 110/120 hours flown every month (legal thanks to the factorization rule),almost all one night layover and back, the commuting will turn to burn you out soon. On top of this, don’t be too sure about the fleet……they might change your plane at the very last moment (even just one day before your first simulator) for company reason and in turn change your plan (roster on 380 or 777 are pretty different). If you go there, is basically to stay…..

[lacog]

@dirk85 you forgot to mention the largest one ;)

​​​​​​To my understanding working for EK you can go home 1-2 times per year while working for QR you can go home every month or two. Dubai more fun etc
regarding EK, do i get it correct or they also do give 4-6 days in a row off per month so i can go home/relax with family?
And if yes, do they allow to split anual leave in small blocks or not?

i love dubai but i dont know if they give you many days off per month in a row .

PS my home is like 5h away from dubai. Commuting while working in LLC takes me way more than 5h and still not burnt out.

[FlightDetent]

Does the new captain have 1500 hrs PIC?

[SOPS]

On Emirates own web site it states that pilots get a minimum of 7 days off in a month, in the the longer months 8 days. I can’t see how you will get 6 days off in a row.

[dirk85]

@dirk85 you forgot to mention the largest one ;)

​​​​​​To my understanding working for EK you can go home 1-2 times per year while working for QR you can go home every month or two. Dubai more fun etc
regarding EK, do i get it correct or they also do give 4-6 days in a row off per month so i can go home/relax with family?
And if yes, do they allow to split anual leave in small blocks or not?

i love dubai but i dont know if they give you many days off per month in a row .

PS my home is like 5h away from dubai. Commuting while working in LLC takes me way more than 5h and still not burnt out.

Ryanair makes sense long term in my opinion only if you have the chance at some point to be based at home. If you have to commute all your life, I wouldn't see it as a good solution, and I would understand looking at other options.

[FlightDetent]

What would this signify out of curiosity?It underlines the contingency planning for the next downturn 6-8 years from now.

Lifestyle should take good precedence, either way. Sooner or later everyone craves to work from and live in the same place. What moves is not the biggest question, whether or not you can achieve it is.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Hi people,
passed both Emirates and Qatar interviews.
Pros and Cons? Spoke to an ex colleague who is in Qatar at the moment and he said he has 6 days off per month in a row and he is commuting back to europe and he is attaching 4-5 days each time so pretty much he is home in EU every month for almost 10 days.
What about Emirates? How many days do you expect to sleep home(in Dubai) with the family per month? Any days in a row off guaranteed per month?

Thank you everyone

PS Typical haters of middle east who never worked again in Europe since you left your legacy carrier and you think EU is good, stay away and do not flood this thread please

if I understood correctly you are a new captain in LCC eu
why do you want to give up left seat for the unknown.
beside what else you have to give up, family friends etc.
bith are not commuting companies. Off request have a high uncertainty and leave basically only twice a year not guaranteed you get all your 42 days. In EK there is countless numbers of people had only 30 and less a year.
in EK maybe live leave works on short notice - worst case 12 hours before planned departure and highly uncertain for being granted at all
acclimatization rule for return to Dxb before next schedule duty (means min 12 hours before you need to cross the Dxb border)

giving up left seat without sufficient hours - I consider that as a fat mistake - in EK there are to many factors out of your hand to get back on the left seat.

[SOPS]

if I understood correctly you are a new captain in LCC eu
why do you want to give up left seat for the unknown.
beside what else you have to give up, family friends etc.
bith are not commuting companies. Off request have a high uncertainty and leave basically only twice a year not guaranteed you get all your 42 days. In EK there is countless numbers of people had only 30 and less a year.
in EK maybe live leave works on short notice - worst case 12 hours before planned departure and highly uncertain for being granted at all
acclimatization rule for return to Dxb before next schedule duty (means min 12 hours before you need to cross the Dxb border)

giving up left seat without sufficient hours - I consider that as a fat mistake - in EK there are to many factors out of your hand to get back on the left seat.


What has been said above is very true. After 8 years in Ek, when I left, I got paid out 9 weeks ( I think) annual leave, because you only have to get a legal 3 weeks leave. ( I am sitting happily home in Australia, with a new career, that gives me 9 weeks leave a year, using up 5 weeks at the moment). Think very carefully before you go….it’s not all what it seems.

[FREQUENTFLYER1234]

Going home from the Middle East is a pain. Most flights are slammed and have undesirable departure times, if you run from an operating duty to get to the terminal to catch a 2am departure home you’ll be absolutely tired out. Worried about getting back for your next report is also very tiring.

Moving to the ME and thinking about going home all the time will be the end of you.

Don’t get me wrong, The money is nice, if you don’t get caught up in the lifestyle creep then it is possible to save a lot of money despite what some people will tell you on here, but you need to look past the headline figure as you’ll be renting or in company accommodation so won’t be buying a home like you could back in Europe. You also may not be contributing to any state pension/company pension and could get a reduced payout in retirement, so it falls on you to make those preparations from your salary.

The mix of destinations and associated layovers is a big plus and I miss it dearly now being a freight dog doing laps of the world with lots of stops in China!

It’s your decision to make but basing it on a guarantee of 6 days off in a row and tacking it on to leave to go home is a very bad idea.

[lacog]

if I understood correctly you are a new captain in LCC eu
why do you want to give up left seat for the unknown.
beside what else you have to give up, family friends etc.
bith are not commuting companies. Off request have a high uncertainty and leave basically only twice a year not guaranteed you get all your 42 days. In EK there is countless numbers of people had only 30 and less a year.
in EK maybe live leave works on short notice - worst case 12 hours before planned departure and highly uncertain for being granted at all
acclimatization rule for return to Dxb before next schedule duty (means min 12 hours before you need to cross the Dxb border)

giving up left seat without sufficient hours - I consider that as a fat mistake - in EK there are to many factors out of your hand to get back on the left seat.
Why i want to leave?
Because on the left seat at the moment i make slightly more than !!!half!!! that I was making as cadet on the RHS. Covid they say...

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[Xulu]

Yeah you won't be commuting at either airline. If you come, you have to let go of your current home life and commit to living in Dubai or Doha. Bid for trips home, bring your relatives over to stay often - but don't focus on how many days you can get off in a row in order to commute - it will leave you disappointed and vulnerable to rosters/upgrade/leave/disruption etc.

Staying until 1500 hrs PIC is a reasonable choice. Keep in mind that if you come as an FO, most DEC contracts will want recency in the LHS as a joining requirement - so that hedge of having PIC time will be quickly lost. Also many big operators want 4000+ hrs PIC to be eligible for a DEC contract, so have a look at what waiting for 1500 hours will actually get you.

[FlightDetent]

The difference is not much.

Whether or not you will join SmartLynx 2030 as a CP or FO. That scavenged recency might define the road for years thereafter.

​​​​​​? Maybe.
​​​​​

[WrldWide]

Get the PIC time under your belt. More doors open with PIC time, short term and long term.

[aussiefarmer]

Also, be very wary of 'accelerated command' offers.

People forget history fast but EK particularly has track of rule/requirements changes at short notice that mean you're stuck on the RHS for 5 years or longer than expected.

At the moment they are desperate for Captains on the Airbus but that could change overnight - happened before - then you become a very experienced SFO at the bottom of the list.

[TruckR]

Been flying for Qatar on the 777 as a FO for more than 5 years.
With the fleet shortage you will probably end up on 777
If you think about joining QR here are a few points to consider.
- Wait to have enough command time for DEC. Upgrade in QR will beat the very least 6-7 years, if it ever happens.
- Fast track is an absolute lie there. Even if it's in your contract. They will just change it when you'll go and ask for your command. Been there...
- On the 777 with the crew shortage forget about having 6 days off in a row.
- On the 777 forget having more 2 days off with your leaves.
- This is not a commuting contract, they want you to stay in Qatar and spend money there.
- Getting a decent accomodation is complicated especially nowadays.
- Most of company accomodations are sub-standar.
- Again, and I can't stress that enough, wait to have 1000-1500h and go there as a DEC. FO get absolutely no consideration in QR, and you won't be given a chance to command before a long time. Just upgrading as SFO will take 2-3 years, will require test and ground course...
A 1500h of command will make a huge difference on everything and will open more doors.
On a meeting a few years ago they made it very clear that DEC are cheaper and a better option for them.
Food luck.

[FlightDetent]

Let's face the reality. For a single EU LCC captain, moreover if relatively fresh, who is willing to move out for the career

the best option is

to go marry an American.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Why i want to leave?
Because on the left seat at the moment i make slightly more than !!!half!!! that I was making as cadet on the RHS. Covid they say...

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seriously I don’t what to ruin your desperation for the money.
as many said the network and experience coming with it is great, the pax cheque looks tempting.
having said that the price you pay is enormous considering for what you give up to get in, especially when your family is not committed to it, it is way to big and at the end you will find out that your pay cheque is by far not big enough.

once the frustration sets in that you don’t get off as you want, and you start missing all family events back home you will still be bonded for at least another 3 years (pretty much the time where the gold looses its shine). At that point you will feel being trapped, and your hand full of command hours will have no value.

HR will promise you everything you want to hear to sign, will give you nothing in writing.

you are signing a contract where 2 manuals are part of your contract, which firstly you will not be able to see before signing, and secondly are objects of change (employee regulation and parts of the om/a - om/a where duty hours/over time/upgrade/fleet transfer etc is defined)

these rules are constantly broken, and changed afterwards to their needs, literally on the day.

even thou it says fast track command it can change into 5 years plus
it happens that people have been promised a fast track, and suddenly where transferred to another fleet, where suddenly a 1000 hour min on type rule popped up in the books and has been applied. Your fast track privilege has been lost at that time and you are back to square one. Considering the fact that new types (350/787) are coming in, this can was lil happen to everyone, rules to be applied are the big unknown, as it is depending on the sugar and morning fart of AAR.

your consent to changes of your contract is not needed, as you consent by opening the letter of contract change by simply opening it. Funny enough even you click “abort” and the doc is not opened you have given your consent.

with 1500 hrs command there are some vary attractive jobs across Europe, yes not with the same salary put very attractive by terms of pay versus work life balance

just be careful what you wish for.

Short of - the desert is either you life their or you go broke - especially if you have family and they keep waiting for you at home - because they won’t do it forever

[flyTheBigFatLady]

@dirk85 you forgot to mention the largest one ;)

​​​​​​To my understanding working for EK you can go home 1-2 times per year while working for QR you can go home every month or two. Dubai more fun etc
regarding EK, do i get it correct or they also do give 4-6 days in a row off per month so i can go home/relax with family?
And if yes, do they allow to split anual leave in small blocks or not?

i love dubai but i dont know if they give you many days off per month in a row .

PS my home is like 5h away from dubai. Commuting while working in LLC takes me way more than 5h and still not burnt out.

QR - I don’t know

EK - you won’t get small chunks get granted
you will get 2 small junks granted and this your annual leave than.
you can not attach off days to your leave - you can put it into the system put will be removed by manual roaster intervention.
EK also frequently uses off days of your request as legal off days to a ULR which require acclimatization - this interferes your return to base - in other words if you are 5h away from Dxb 5 off days become effectively only 2,5 to 3 depending how you manage to catch the flights.
max bid for of days is 5 in a row, granted usually only in top or second top bid. EK has six bid groups so you are only every 6 month in either group. So go and figure how many times you will get your request.

lastly there should be mentioned the reserve month, which is effectually 5 weeks in a row where you go nowhere except to your residence, as every day at 6pm the roaster change for next day or 2 will be published. Sometimes hard to have a beer in those days.
Not to mention that a reserve day during that month can change into a sim support, which easily happens, when training demand is exceptional high, and exact this sim support can change your career entirely, because if the guy you support fails, it brings your progress in jeopardy.

again - forget commuting

[lacog]

I have got only 500h PIC on the 737. I understand working in emirates wont make me reach but its 3 times the sallary i make at the moment and i have to commute and rent house in 2 countries. That pretty much means since i became captain i have to use money from my pocket to work on the lhs....

[bongo bongo]

I don't think 350's are coming to Qatar anymore

[flyTheBigFatLady]

I have got only 500h PIC on the 737. I understand working in emirates wont make me reach but its 3 times the sallary i make at the moment and i have to commute and rent house in 2 countries. That pretty much means since i became captain i have to use money from my pocket to work on the lhs....

Get another 500hr and go for Aerologic direct entry command than or
Norse 787 command or
dhl direct entry command

discover and euroqings won’t work because they need airbus rating

[FlightDetent]

Get another 500hr and go for
Aerologic direct entry command or
Norse 787 command or
dhl direct entry command

and start working on the US citizenship planfixed that for him.

[Python27]

After all that people wrote about qr if you're not from the east side of the globe and still is considering this place, I'd recommend you to come and regret it by yourself. Like many including myself did many years ago.



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[bongo bongo]

Get another 500hr and go for Aerologic direct entry command
if you speak German, they said German has been removed, but the application form is in German and when you go to the assessment in Berlin you find yourself struggling with test in German language, including the personality one.