Coastal Command Category C Qualification (1964)

[andrewclark1960]

Hi All. I have a pilot whose logbook records a 'Coastal Command Category C Qualification', as a special qualification, being granted on the same day that he qualified as first pilot on an Avro Shackleton. Can anyone here tell me anything about this qualification please?

Thanks in advance

Andrew

[ExAscoteer2]

It means he was 'Average' and 'Combat ready'. Most people graduating from an OCU would be a 'D Category' and 'Limited Combat ready' and would have to upgrade to 'C Category' after 6 months on the Sqn.

[andrewclark1960]

Many thanks ExAscoteer2, that is very helpful. Interestingly, the entries "B" and "C" appear immediately below this, signed off about six weeks after the original entry. Do you know what they might mean? Also, a little later, the entries " 'T' Flying" and " 'T' Meteorology" appear. Could you perhaps help me with the meaning of these please?

Thanks again, your help is much appreciated.

Andrew

[Geriaviator]

How would these fit with the Master Green rating, please? My father finished his service with 202 Sqn (Met Hastings) and referred to this once or twice, I did not know what it meant though I soon found out when going for my civil IR! Pilots he mentioned were the WW2 veteran Flt Lts Ignatowski and Radina. I was fortunate to fly with Frank Radina on the four-ship formation to carry the squadron standard from Aldergrove to its new home (Leconfield?) and wonder at the effort required to keep the leader's tailplane only a few yards away from his aircraft.

[Random Bloke]

'T' Flying and Meteorology refer to the training (T) category system where aircrew were given a local qualification by the Standards Unit or OCU to teach (and examine) those specified subjects on a Sqn.

[andrewclark1960]

Many thanks Random Bloke - I just need to establish what the B and C entries stand for, made on the same day, some six weeks after he had been classed as 'combat ready'. Can anyone else help with this please? Thanks again, Andrew

[andrewclark1960]

Hi again Folks. I should have asked this before; but if 'D Category' meant 'Limited Combat Ready' and 'C Category' meant 'Combat Ready' what did 'A Category' and 'B Category' mean? TIA, Andrew

[Janda]

D and C category's well explained above. B Cat indicated that the person was above average in his/her role. A Cat was rarely awarded and indicated that the person was exceptional in the role. B and C Cats were the most common on the squadron that I was on in the 70's. Upgrades from the various category's were accomplished with a successful check ride and grilling from the group standardisation unit or GSU. These checks occurred annually. Occasionally interim checks were also carried out.

[Random Bloke]

B Category became Combat Ready (Advanced), CR(A). A Category became Combat Ready (Select), CR(S).

[andrewclark1960]

Thanks again guys, this is really intriguing. So, the guy that I am studying was rated as 'Category C' by the OC of the MOTU on 17/12/1964, The next two qualifications cited in his logbook are simply stated as 'B' on 29/01/1965 and 'C' on 01/02/1965 - both are signed off by the OC of No.201 Squadron. A further simple 'B' entry appears on 07/02/1966, again signed off by the OC of No.201 Squadron. He is then signed off as being 'Category A', during a visit by the CCCB on 18/02/1966 - all of this being while flying Shackletons. By 18/08/1972 he was flying Nimrods at No.236 OCU, being signed off as '18 GP D Category'. This, to me, suggests that the simple 'B' and 'C' entries are not ability category ratings but, if they weren't, then what were they? They must have been some type of qualification, as they are listed on the 'Special Flying Qualifications and Renewals' page of his logbook? Can one of you knowledgeable people on this forum please help??? Thanks again, Andrew

[longer ron]

As the other answers above - A,B,C and D were indeed 'Ability' in Role.They would have to be 'renewed' (rechecked) on a regular basis to maintain Flying (and operational ) standards.
When he converted to Nimrods he would have had to start again at 'D' Cat on that aircraft.
The RAF used the A/B/C/D type of category for many roles.

[andrewclark1960]

Thanks Longer Ron, I can see the logic in checking ability on a regular basis, but it seems that this chap was assessed as being Category B on 29/1/65 and then as Category C, by the same assessor, just three days later on 1/2/65 - with the renewal date for both assessments being the same (29/1/66). Why would this be? Cheers again, Andrew

[longer ron]

Who knows Andrew ? - if the categorisation was being done at squadron level then there could be a variety of reasons.Perhaps the original assessor had a rethink and changed the cat retrospectively or perhaps the pilot concerned screwed up on a sortie (but not too dangerously) or even perhaps the assessor had simply put the wrong cat down by mistake.
Would OC 201 actually be doing all the recat flights ? - there could have been a little misunderstanding between OC 201 and the actual checking pilot (if not the CO personally) and subsequently rectified in log book.

[sycamore]

Andrew,you would have to look at the actual logged flights,as they may have been say,one for aircraft handling(ie stalling/asymmetric/circuits),and another for role(ie.bombing/SAR/Tactics/crew co-ord).In the `trucking world` everybody had a seperate `Cat Card` which defined what you had as `qualifications`,in addition to the Logbook,as normally you carried the CC with you,but not the logbook.Many ,many yrs ago I renewed my TC `B` Cat at the end of April`67 and `B`cat`SAR by the 2 `local` examiners,then the following week the UK Transport Command Examiners arrived,and I was `done`again,and got an `A` Cat TC,but retained a `B` Cat SAR as they could not `examine` above `B`` CAT..and the `A`cat. was valid for 2yrs...!

[andrewclark1960]

Thanks again guys for more useful background information. Unfortunately I don't have all of his logbook at present, but will study the relevant dates when I have. Thanks again and cheers for now.
Andrew

[Tengah Type]

Adrew
If your dates are correct, he left the OCU as a "C" Cat on 17/12/64 and was reassessed only one month later as "B" (Above Average) Cat on 29/01/65. (The "B" Cat on 29/01/65 and "C" Cat 3 days later are probably such as Flying Cat and Ground Cat on the same visit by the examiners). Then only one year later on 18/02/66
he is an "A" (Exceptional) Cat -rarely given. He must have been an experienced pilot on type returning to the Shackleton Force after a Staff or CFS Tour. Such
meteric progress of somebody new to type would be unheard of on any other force;
Just reread your # 12 which confirms my thoughts. Validity of Cats was generally "D" Cat 6 months, "C" Cat one year, "B" Cat 18 months, and "A" Cat two years.

[andrewclark1960]

Hi Tengah, sorry for my delayed response. You were 'bang on the money' with your observations - he was, indeed, an experienced Shackleton pilot and had recently completed a Staff tour. Thanks again, Andrew