Rivet Joint busy - Daily Black Sea visits

[Grimweasel]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1446x942/rj_3f246204a56db342d07629bf04ab8fcbafb5539b.png

[Ohrly]

They have been up and down the Ukraine border almost daily since Feb, along with a couple of other similar aircraft.

[pr00ne]

Doing their job, the reason that they were acquired.

[Grimweasel]

No JSTARS tho? I'm surprised they have not 'gone dark' but I guess they have to stay visible due to other civil traffic? What can they do that SATCOM etc can't these days one wonders?

[Video Mixdown]

No JSTARS tho? I'm surprised they have not 'gone dark' but I guess they have to stay visible due to other civil traffic? What can they do that SATCOM etc can't these days one wonders?
Even uninformed speculation about such matters is foolish.

[pr00ne]

Even uninformed speculation about such matters is foolish.

Get over yourself, it's a publicly accessible rumour site....

Doubt that ANY actual capability of RC-135W will be available in public. BUT, if the capability could be replaced by satellites, then neither we, or the USAF, would be bothering with RC-135W's...

[pasta]

Safe to say that assets with transponders turned on want everyone (including any adversary) to know they're there. Wikipedia will give you a high-level indication of what they probably do, but as VM says further speculation is unhelpful.

Any aircraft that don't want to advertise their presence will be perfectly capable of staying out of the way of civil traffic.

[dead_pan]

Is that track hand-drawn? If not did the Russians not mind or notice it flying directly over Crimea??

[Grimweasel]

Is that track hand-drawn? If not did the Russians not mind or notice it flying directly over Crimea??

Yes, that was hand drawn for likley route

Here's yesterday's - one RAF and one USAF RJ were on station again!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcduRgtWAAMglMI?format=jpg&name=large

[safetypee]

Often pairing with top cover Global Hawk

[bobward]

Maybe having an RJ around persuades the bad guys not to use their top-of-the-range kit, to avoid it being picked up by the good guys?
Just saying.....

[rattman]

Safe to say that assets with transponders turned on want everyone (including any adversary) to know they're there. Wikipedia will give you a high-level indication of what they probably do, but as VM says further speculation is unhelpful.

Any aircraft that don't want to advertise their presence will be perfectly capable of staying out of the way of civil traffic.

Yep notice there has not been one US awacs broadcasting, but every day theres a nato one up and its only during the daylight. You expect me to believe that there is no awacs operating in europe overnight ? An american one will occaisionally transmit while transitting or refueling but in general they are dark

[Doctor Cruces]

No JSTARS tho? I'm surprised they have not 'gone dark' but I guess they have to stay visible due to other civil traffic? What can they do that SATCOM etc can't these days one wonders?
JSTARS has been doing regular flights as well, caling themselves "Redeye 6". Many surveillance assets from NATO countries and Sewden have been particpating all along the western boundaries and Black Sea.

[Doctor Cruces]

No JSTARS tho? I'm surprised they have not 'gone dark' but I guess they have to stay visible due to other civil traffic? What can they do that SATCOM etc can't these days one wonders?
Because wewant them to know we're watching them.

[Grimweasel]

Because we want them to know we're watching them.

JSTARS an Rivet Joint up over Poland today. Looking elsewhere instead of into Russia. Can only mean they are 'searching' for the Nordstream antagonists maybe??
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1449x934/capture_4a92e7b6c9cd59332d40a464c6d694881fbd0b0f.png

[SRFred]

The Rivet Joints have been regular for a while.

23/9/22 VVHG725 MH-60R Strike Hawk was active off Kaliningrad almost like it was looking for something up to no good.

[Ripton]

JSTARS an Rivet Joint up over Poland today. Looking elsewhere instead of into Russia. Can only mean they are 'searching' for the Nordstream antagonists maybe??


Not necessarily, I don't suppose there's any reason why the kit that damaged the pipelines couldn't have come from Kalingrad (it's relatively close and the US helo sniffing around the area the other day was directly north of there) but there's been constant activity around Kalingrad throughout the whole period. Lithuanian airspace also usually has a couple of Guardrails looking into Kalingrad and East into Russia as well as the Joint Rivets and Joint Stars.

The Swedes are also at today on the NW side of the Baltic.

[Grimweasel]

Not necessarily, I don't suppose there's any reason why the kit that damaged the pipelines couldn't have come from Kalingrad (it's relatively close and the US helo sniffing around the area the other day was directly north of there) but there's been constant activity around Kalingrad throughout the whole period. Lithuanian airspace also usually has a couple of Guardrails looking into Kalingrad and East into Russia as well as the Joint Rivets and Joint Stars.

The Swedes are also at today on the NW side of the Baltic.
Agree, I thought it odd the level of AT aircraft from across NATO into Lithuania last week. A UK C17 visited as well as a Spanish and then German A400M. They also had RJs over Lithuania all last week.
Why on earth would Russia attack the pipeline that provides them revenue from the EU? The pipeline they control the gas into?? They would simply turn it off their end rather than attack the pipes in foreign waters at great risk! This smells of the EU being the USA's sacrificial lamb in their attempts to demonize Russia for daring to protect their own citizens in Donbass etc - where they have been murdered by Azovs et al since 2014 (the year the CIA helped overthrow their democratically elected president).
Ukraine is ALL about US oligarchs cutting off Nordstream 2 - because cheap Russian energy into the EU would be a threat to USD hegemony - allowing Germany etc to undercut US costs of production. Their Empire is dying of a debt induced coma whilst the power and money shifts to Asia - look for Mark Carney's 2019 speech as Jackson Hole - the Oligarchs know this and are slowly dismantling the uni-polar world order and USD reserve currency with 'their' solution- digitized serfdom via Central Bank Digital Currencies and Digital ID.

[pasta]

Agree, I thought it odd the level of AT aircraft from across NATO into Lithuania last week. A UK C17 visited as well as a Spanish and then German A400M. They also had RJs over Lithuania all last week.
Why on earth would Russia attack the pipeline that provides them revenue from the EU? The pipeline they control the gas into?? They would simply turn it off their end rather than attack the pipes in foreign waters at great risk! This smells of the EU being the USA's sacrificial lamb in their attempts to demonize Russia for daring to protect their own citizens in Donbass etc - where they have been murdered by Azovs et al since 2014 (the year the CIA helped overthrow their democratically elected president).
Ukraine is ALL about US oligarchs cutting off Nordstream 2 - because cheap Russian energy into the EU would be a threat to USD hegemony - allowing Germany etc to undercut US costs of production. Their Empire is dying of a debt induced coma whilst the power and money shifts to Asia - look for Mark Carney's 2019 speech as Jackson Hole - the Oligarchs know this and are slowly dismantling the uni-polar world order and USD reserve currency with 'their' solution- digitized serfdom via Central Bank Digital Currencies and Digital ID.
Sure thing Ivan.

[Ripton]

Agree, I thought it odd the level of AT aircraft from across NATO into Lithuania last week. A UK C17 visited as well as a Spanish and then German A400M. They also had RJs over Lithuania all last week.
Why on earth would Russia attack the pipeline that provides them revenue from the EU? The pipeline they control the gas into?? They would simply turn it off their end rather than attack the pipes in foreign waters at great risk! This smells of the EU being the USA's sacrificial lamb in their attempts to demonize Russia for daring to protect their own citizens in Donbass etc - where they have been murdered by Azovs et al since 2014 (the year the CIA helped overthrow their democratically elected president).
Ukraine is ALL about US oligarchs cutting off Nordstream 2 - because cheap Russian energy into the EU would be a threat to USD hegemony - allowing Germany etc to undercut US costs of production. Their Empire is dying of a debt induced coma whilst the power and money shifts to Asia - look for Mark Carney's 2019 speech as Jackson Hole - the Oligarchs know this and are slowly dismantling the uni-polar world order and USD reserve currency with 'their' solution- digitized serfdom via Central Bank Digital Currencies and Digital ID.

German and Spanish A400s may well have been refuelling the unseen. Can the RAF's C-17 do that? I think the US has trialled it. Or they were supporting Nato troops in Lithuania.

As for why it Nordstream? To demonstrate subsea strike capability. The gas had been (temporarily) been switched off and the Eu's weening itself off Russian gas so it's not about that. Probably scaremongering about cables etc.

As for the rest, it supports a need for a tinfoil hat emoji.

[Lonewolf_50]

Can only mean they are Hardly - your assessment includes the necessity of you being able to read minds. No sale.
I am waiting for Rodney Dangerfield to glance over and ask you
"Did you get a free bowl of soup with that tin foil hat? Looks good on you, Judge!"
but I think he died a few years ago.

[ASRAAMTOO]

I wonder how useful a Sentinel would have beeen?

[Toadstool]

I wonder how useful a Sentinel would have beeen?

I suppose, if you knew it’s capabilities and how it used its sensors, it may have been very useful. In particular, it was excellent in the layered ISTAR role. In any case, we don’t have it so it’s a moot point and there are other assets that have similar capabilities.

[ASRAAMTOO]

I suppose, if you knew it’s capabilities and how it used its sensors, it may have been very useful. In any case, we don’t have it so it’s a moot point.
Sorry, I'm afraid my post was more sarcasm than a genuine question really ;-)

[Toadstool]

Sorry, I'm afraid my post was more sarcasm than a genuine question really ;-)

Ah, got you, apologies.

[mmitch]

Swedish Air Force 'GF5' labeled aircraft have been patroling the borders almost since the start. Might be business jets just winding the Russians up. Or maybe not.
mmitch.

[Grimweasel]

Seems to be going mainstream now ! ;-)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-spy-planes-appear-to-be-monitoring-a-russian-enclave-in-europe-possibly-looking-for-signs-of-nuclear-weapons-activity/ar-AA12mzsL?ocid=EMMX&cvid=546b7685288c45689c7f18fe54d523fb#image=AA12mEEM%7C2

[Grimweasel]

Yes
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1437x886/capture_05e64660622af2e24346031e9d9355546eed34ca.png
Yes, the same one is up today. This variant has a large canoe on the underside pointing to a RW/JSTARS config. It's evident the Swedes are also spying on Kaliningrad, the breakaway Russian country sandwiched by NATO nations. No doubt they are looking for the false flag evidence to blame Russia for destroying gas pipelines?!

[Ripton]

Yes
Yes, the same one is up today. This variant has a large canoe on the underside pointing to a RW/JSTARS config. It's evident the Swedes are also spying on Kaliningrad, the breakaway Russian country sandwiched by NATO nations. No doubt they are looking for the false flag evidence to blame Russia for destroying gas pipelines?!

I'm not sure that there is any sensible interpretation of the situation that paints Kaliningrad as a breakaway country. Isolated by the collapse of the USSR perhaps but breakaway no.

You're clearly stirring so, toddle pip.

[Grimweasel]

Italian Spooks are up now again. Seems like a real NATO demonetization mission!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1441x884/ddsdesd_73c9daaeed0b6adcb63a206a0c684548e0f0b3c0.png

[DaveReidUK]

I'm not sure that there is any sensible interpretation of the situation that paints Kaliningrad as a breakaway country. Isolated by the collapse of the USSR perhaps but breakaway no.

You're clearly stirring so, toddle pip.

Either that, or simply oblivious to European history.

Best to stick to posting screenshots ...

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/gabriel64869839/status/1686475040726855681?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


2022/23 was new record year for Rivet Joint in Royal Air Force service (unsurprisingly due to situation in Europe).

​​​​​​​The 3 aircraft of 51 Sqn (really, probably 2 since "beast" ZZ666 is in USA getting its periodic upgrade cycle) flew 1380 hours in 160 sorties (average 11+ hours).

[rattman]

We dont all the planes capabilities, but imagine theres a few countries looking at ISR aircraft, stuff like the US army ARES ISR, MC-55 going into RAAF service. Certainly can see a market for ISR/ELINT planes based on business jets. Refueling, or the lack there of seems to be the only real issue

[kiwi grey]

2022/23 was new record year for Rivet Joint in Royal Air Force service (unsurprisingly due to situation in Europe).

​​​​​​​The 3 aircraft of 51 Sqn (really, probably 2 since "beast" ZZ666 is in USA getting its periodic upgrade cycle) flew 1380 hours in 160 sorties (average 11+ hours).
What effect will all this activity - presumably unanticipated at acquisition time - have on the expected Life Of Type and/or annual running costs?
If your acquisition business case was built on the squadron delivering "X" operational flying hours a year for say fifteen years, but you now discover that the requirement is for 2 x "X" or 3 x "X" operational flying hours a year, then what happens?

[Lonewolf_50]

What effect will all this activity - presumably unanticipated at acquisition time - have on the expected Life Of Type and/or annual running costs?
If your acquisition business case was built on the squadron delivering "X" operational flying hours a year for say fifteen years, but you now discover that the requirement is for 2 x "X" or 3 x "X" operational flying hours a year, then what happens?
Do a SLEP: Service Life Extension Program.

[Asturias56]

"but you now discover that the requirement is for 2 x "X" or 3 x "X" operational flying hours a year, then what happens?"

Nothing - if you're an SO you'll be well embedded in a cushy job in civi street and if you're a Civil Servant you'll be long gone.

And as for the Politicians........

[SLXOwft]

IIRC the fatigue life for the KC-135R fleet was estimated to be 39,000hrs, the 3 RAF RJs were each at around 23000 hrs when acquired, reputedly the three lowest hour KC-135R airframes. Simplistically with an OSD of 2035 that allows c 1,300 hrs per airframe per annum so if 1,380 is 2x normal usage (the rate AM Harv Smyth mentioned in his Sir Sydney Camm lecture in Feb.) then we can concentrate on worrying about having the money available to keep the mission systems cutting edge.

From my point of ignorance we are effectively talking a fleet of airliners being used 9 hours a week each - I am assuming no high stress manoeuvring is normally required.

[mmitch]

On FR24 this week ZZ666 was flying what appeared to be a long 'patrol' line across an area near Nevada. Testing its upgrades? Working a night shift, it was around 2am local!
mmitch.

[esscee]

Noticed "665" just RTB "7700" after routine tanking, second time in 3 weeks, last time diverted to Mildenhall and stayed for 48 hours. Hopefully problem not too serious. At least "the beast" has been up "testing" again in U.S. Having a small number of frames does have consequences, memo to Def Sec re E-7's.

[Xhorst]

The 3 aircraft of 51 Sqn .... flew 1380 hours in 160 sorties (average 11+ hours).

1380 hours in 160 sorties is an average of 8.625 hours.

(I know it's only a quote from a twit).