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OrangeSkies
10th Sep 2022, 00:31
I'm not entirely sure whether this is the correct place to post this and if not here, mods please direct to the best subforum.

I was issued a UK ATPL many moons ago and have been working for a UK carrier since. Unfortunately, I temporarily lost my medical nearly 2 years ago. I am now heading in the right direction to getting it reinstated. That's the good news, the bad news is it seems like a minefield of legal speak trying to understand exactly where I stand, come the end of the year, with the full transition to UK licencing.

I am not too sure where I stand. My licence is a blue UK CAA Flight Crew Licence. Within in it, my licence number starts GBR.FCL.AT.xxxx. This on the face of it would lead me to presume that it is an already converted licence. I know that I have registered with Cellma in the past and have had a UK CAA Class 1 medical certificate pertaining to a Part-FCL Licence issued in accordance with Part-Med in Jan 2021. However, I don't for the life of me recall actually completing any forms for the UK CAA for a licence conversion. I'm not sure if my employer did this for me?

My first question is, how would I know whether my UK->EASA->UK licence has already occurred or whether I remain UK->EASA still?
My next question relates to somewhere on the CAA site, it mentioned that an EASA licence holder can not apply for a UK licence unless they hold a valid medical. Would the circumstances that I previously held a UK licence and only changed to EASA due to the mandatory licencing mean that the UK CAA would allow me to convert this back even after the 31st Dec 2022? Likewise, is it simply a case of completing the paperwork before the 31st Dec 2022 or does it have to have been signed off by the CAA before that? The CAAs site suggests that there can be a large backlog and I'd have thought with any deadline, there will always be a deluge of applications before the cutoff. Hence, I'd hate to submit my conversion paperwork to the CAA before the closure and think that all is well, only to find that the CAA don't process it in time due to backlogs and I miss the cutoff.
My final question is a worst case, should it be that my licence is not a UK one and I can not get my medical or licence granted in time. What are the ramifications? I read somewhere something like the ATPLs would need to be retaken, is this correct? Would any flight testing be required? This would seem very harsh for a UK pilot with total jet commercial flying hours in the 5 digits, who had been flying up until sickness 2 years ago.

Very interested in both thoughts and views. May I kindly request that if it is merely your thoughts on the subject, please included text to this effect. Likewise, if you are a licencing guru and are completely adept at SRG documents and forms please also include this. I'd prefer not to pull any more hairs out with conflicting information or hearsay.

Many thanks for your time.

Senior Pilot
10th Sep 2022, 00:55
From a lengthy thread in Rotorheads (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/643298-convert-easa-atplh-uk-atplh.html), this article may help 🤔

https://www.busyaviation.co.uk/blog/conversion-of-an-easa-flight-crew-licence-to-a-uk-part-equivalent-licence

OrangeSkies
10th Sep 2022, 08:48
From a lengthy thread in Rotarheads, this article may help 🤔

Busy aviation link (I can't post your link, as Pprune state I haven't reached 8 posts yet:ugh:)

Thank you for the links 'Senior Pilot'.

The Busyaviation one is a useful summary, although I'd read the UK CAAs documents originally and the reason for the question was due to the fact that I don't really fit into an easily definable category, as far as I can tell. Hence the summary document doesn't really add a huge amount of intel for my personal circumstances.

However, the Rotorheads link that you added does add a little more, in that someone asks whether their licence which says on the front page "UK CAA > European Union > Flight Crew Licence > Issued in accordance with Part-FCL > This licence complies with ICAO Standards" needs to be converted, to which someone replied effectively "No". That is the big issue for me, do I need to rush for the Dec 22 deadline, or am I all ready for the UK CAA drawbridge to be raised?

The other part that I am unsure of (although may well be a moot point if my licence is already UK CAA recognised) is the technical points relating to having a medical. In some CAA documents, it talks about needing a "UK medical" and in others, it mentions needing to have "an initial UK medical" In my case, I had an initial Class 1 issued 25+ years ago at LGW. So I am wondering whether theoretically although my medical has lapsed, as it has been temporarily revoked for 12+ months, effectively though I would not need an initial, which is where the long delays are occurring at the CAA from my understanding. My AME has said that when I am fit, I can attend my usual Class 1 medical exam and a new certificate can be issued without having to check with the CAA for approval first, due to the nature of the sickness, providing I have the necessary consultant's letter giving me a clean bill of health. This was/is my second greatest concern (after whether my licence will be valid in 2023), as depending on how the CAA consider 'having a UK medical' is viewed, could make or break getting the original UK > EU licence converted (if necessary), before the end of the year.

All pretty complex and I'm sure that some all-encompassing flowcharts could have saved many lines of CAA text, that still seem to have grey areas in them.

BEagle
10th Sep 2022, 14:33
My licence is a blue UK CAA Flight Crew Licence. Within in it, my licence number starts GBR.FCL.AT.xxxx.

No problem. All UK-issued Part-FCL licences such as yours are now deemed to be UK Part-FCL licences and no conversion is needed if you wish to fly G-registered aircraft.

Unfortunately, I temporarily lost my medical nearly 2 years ago. I am now heading in the right direction to getting it reinstated.

Excellent news! All you will need to do in order to exercise your full ATPL privileges is to renew your Part-MED Class 1 and to renew your Type Rating and IR.

NO exams are required.

NIJASEA
27th Dec 2022, 14:43
Hi guys

where can I see the information on the CAA website specifically stating a UK EASA license does not need to go through the conversion?
I have searched and only found info on moving from an easa state to Uk CAA but nothing on the GBR EASA TO UK.
maybe I missed it somewhere.
thanks

deltahotel
27th Dec 2022, 19:14
If you have a UK issued FCL licence (GBR.FCL……) then you already have all you need.

rgds

MrAverage
27th Dec 2022, 20:09
A statement was made by the UK CAA ages ago, stating quite simply that you do not need to take any action with a UK issued EASA licence, you can ignore the letters EASA on it. Thousands of us are doing exactly that.
You will only find info for converting NON UK issued licences on the CAA site. Please don't waste your precious time looking for something that doesn't exist.

OpenCirrus619
28th Dec 2022, 14:18
Try this: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Confirmation%20of%20Validity%20of%20a%20Licences%20%20Medica ls%20Issued%20by%20the%20UK.pdf

OC619

Fl1ingfrog
5th Jan 2023, 21:46
where can I see the information on the CAA website specifically stating a UK EASA license does not need to go through the conversion?

An EASA licence does not exist and never has. Each state issues a licence of their own but in accordance with the EASA standards if it chooses. The UK has now withdrawn from the EU and the EASA agreements such that EASA no longer has oversight. Look carefully at the licence and it is obvious that it is not an 'EASA' licence but a licence issued in accordance with .......'

So if you have a UK licence then that does not require converting*. (The same is true for your UK passport by the way)

*The word 'convert' is much abused including by the CAA who should know better. It is very rare that a pilots licence requires converting; you can hold most licences independently from each other. You can hold both a EASA and a UK licence.

Whopity
6th Jan 2023, 18:07
I must confess there is no simple clear statement that a UK licence issued in accordance with Part FCL is now a UK Part FCL licence.
Whilst searching, I found the following statement on the CAA website:
From 1 January 2023, the UK can no longer recognise EASA-issued licences.Gaining a UK licence from 01 January 2023Pilots are required to hold a UK licence to fly G-Reg aircraft in the UK.

Then if we look at Article 150, it contradicts that statement:
Art 150. Deeming a non-United Kingdom flight crew licence and any Part-FCL licence valid for [ non-Part-21 ] aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and deeming a non-United Kingdom radiotelephony licence valid for any aircraft

No wonder people are confused

Fl1ingfrog
6th Jan 2023, 23:47
From 1 January 2023, the UK can no longer recognise EASA-issued licences.

Once again: an EASA licence has never existed. All international licences, including those of the UK and all the other 27 EU member states, have been issued first nationally in accordance with ICAO and only second in accordance with EASA. Now that the UK has resigned from EASA all UK international licences simply remain in accordance with ICAO. The EASA reference on the cover of a UK licence has no meaning and should be ignored. Should the licence require a reissue in the future the references to the EU and EASA are simply omitted. All new licenses will not refer to the EU or EASA. The above quoted statement is simply wrong

Pilots are required to hold a UK licence to fly G-Reg aircraft in the UK.

Do they really mean 'G-Reg aircraft in the UK'. surely anywhere in the world is correct. The wording should be simply; 'G-Reg aircraft'