RIP. Lets not let CX sweep this one under the rug

[woke2022]

This week one of our own took his life in HK.
I'm shocked how something so massive can be passed over and the same day news pumped out instead about how we are hiring 700 cadets instead.
What ever was happening in personal life it can be assured that stressors were amplified 100x by being a pilot who had undertaken multiple closed loops and countless days of quarantine and hotel ISOLATION.
Is this even going to get mentioned by the company, bar a short impersonal email from GMA? When a pilot passes away from illness we are issued a FON about it yet in this circumstance it is hidden under a rug no doubt so the company can distance its self from having any guilt for what many said was a certain eventuality as to what results when you push push push push and at the same time take take take from your employees.
Mental health is a very real risk and more dangerous now than COVID for our pilots so this should not be a taboo subject. Guys on the line are really reaching the end of their wick, I don't recall any time we got good news or any hope of improvements in the future.
No job is worth it guys, take the stress leave, call sick or just quit if need be.
Cheek in on your mates because the company or gov don't have your back we need to check on each other.

[Babyjet_dododo]

This week one of our own took his life in HK.
I'm shocked how something so massive can be passed over and the same day news pumped out instead about how we are hiring 700 cadets instead.
What ever was happening in personal life it can be assured that stressors were amplified 100x by being a pilot who had undertaken multiple closed loops and countless days of quarantine and hotel ISOLATION.
Is this even going to get mentioned by the company, bar a short impersonal email from GMA? When a pilot passes away from illness we are issued a FON about it yet in this circumstance it is hidden under a rug no doubt so the company can distance its self from having any guilt for what many said was a certain eventuality as to what results when you push push push push and at the same time take take take from your employees.
Mental health is a very real risk and more dangerous now than COVID for our pilots so this should not be a taboo subject. Guys on the line are really reaching the end of their wick, I don't recall any time we got good news or any hope of improvements in the future.
No job is worth it guys, take the stress leave, call sick or just quit if need be.
Cheek in on your mates because the company or gov don't have your back we need to check on each other.

Did you expect more from CX? When people are screaming for help, they tend to threaten them with their job. They don’t care, as long as their show remains on the road. This extends from Management to the fleet office.

I would not be surprised if they asked for payment to repatriate his remains.

I extend my condolences to his family and apologise for what has happened, no one in this industry deserves to be put in this position by either the company or the government to the extent that the only way they feel there is an out is death.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Unbelievably sad, a vibrant personality and great pilot with his whole life ahead of him. Irrespective of the circumstances, very sad to see CX has barely acknowledged but completely unsurprising. TB and co too concerned with the new 1000 cadets.

Additionally calls from the Union for PAN/EAP are really baseless as the person often won’t seek help or doesn’t confide in people before it’s too late.

Only thing really to say is look out for your friends and colleagues, really the last and often only line of defence.

RIP

[controlledrest]

In today's teams meeting GMA made it very clear there would be no change to the transition to POS18 housing, expressed no concern about attrition rate, but was excited by the coming recruitment to meet growing operation next year. Made passing mention that pilot welfare was important. Not a word about the three pilots who have died in the last week.

So, the management are locked into POS18, don't give a **** about the employees and think they will be able to recruit their way out of this.

[RAT Management]

Yes a tragic event no matter which way you look at it.

I think controlledrest put it appropriately in another thread that the reality is this:


The board have decided on POS18. RH and GMA are implementing it and more. All departments are encouraged to treat aircrew (front and rear) like ****. The company now has a cheap workforce and the ability to change all conditions as they see fit. They don't care about how much money could be made in the short term, the board is looking far further out than that.

Even if we were the right size for all the demand that will occur when the borders open, you won't get any of the rewards - do you remember when CX made record profits but it wasn't enough to trigger a profit share?

So the best way to manage your relationship with the company is to work when it suits you, make the most of your days off and plan your exit.

Well said +1

[woke2022]

3 pilots this week? Wow
What a disgrace the company can't talk about this
Media where are you? SCMP are in cx pocket how about bloomberg? DL now would be a great time for some media highlighting the very real stress we are operating under and what the results can be.
All of this is far more dangerous than Covid itself

[Klimax]

How tragic. It´s a sick company - Cathay Pathetic Airways. Sick, sick, sick.
I do remember how Gary Tony Penny (EX Airbus manager of some pathetic kind back around 2008) was an A-hole when my Grand Mother had fallen seriously sick. I had just completed day one of A330 landing base training in Zhuhai, and we had the airplane available for a second day of base training - if we wanted/needed it (we choose not too!). The ex Cathay manager thought it was more important to remain in HK and consider doing another day of base training! I disagreed with the clown, called sick and flew back home. F@ck him. My Grand Mother passed away while I was on the flight heading home. About a year later I resigned from this pathetic "airline" - I feel sorry for the bunch that are still left with this company after all these years! Yikes.

My condolences to the families.

[VforVENDETTA]

3 pilots? Can someone confirm this? If not names, maybe generally circumstances and how they passed?

We all know something has to break in this situation cathay has created out of covid madness of silly land called hong kong. Its so sad its not cathay that breaks first, instead of out very dear friends and colleagues we have so many memories with.

This has to be made public news. Cathay shares are rising. At the cost of their long time loyal pilots literally dying of suicide and stress under pressure of having their livelihoods cut in half and working under conditions exponentially worse than ever before. You don't have to be genius to know in what mental health shape they all are.

Do the shareholders of cathay pacific realize what blood they have on their hands hoping to take advantage of this situation? Is this a healthy company worth having shares of? Forget about any ethics or decency in stock holders. But how can you justify buying stock in a company this fundamentally unhealthy in a business sense. They're ready to implode when flying demand comes back in a hurry at some point and they have just a fraction of qualified pilots to fly their airplanes. Losing long held money maker slots and being forced to shrink the airline down to a fraction of size because they can't operate anything more than a skeleton operation.

1000 cadets is what they are betting on. Same kind of cadets who will need at least 2-3 years before they can qualify only to be second officers not yet qualified to fly the airplane limited to in-flight admin and air traffic control communications type of duties. It takes 3-4 years for each one of them to become at least a first officer qualified to fly the airplane. Cathay has never had nor does it now have the training capacity to train more than a couple of hundred in a year. It would take cathay years and billions to create a big enough training department to handle the numbers they need to replace what is lost in pilot workforce.

Meanwhile they've bled away at least 1/3 of their most experienced pilots so far and bleeding more every month. Many still on the seniority list and on stress related sick leave are never coming back to work either. So don't think seniority list tells the total amount of pilots left at Cathay.

The board of directors has been for some time panicking about the lack of pilots to even expand a few percent flights back up being told by planning department "cannot, not enough pilots, cannot".

This is a company you buy stocks in? You must be a special kind of stupid.

I wish AOA had a public relations department. What a pathetic waste of oxygen of a pilot association.

[Babyjet_dododo]

3 pilots this week? Wow
What a disgrace the company can't talk about this
Media where are you? SCMP are in cx pocket how about bloomberg? DL now would be a great time for some media highlighting the very real stress we are operating under and what the results can be.
All of this is far more dangerous than Covid itself

Al - Jazeera loves these stories!

[Fridayflyer]

3 pilots? Can someone confirm this? If not names, maybe generally circumstances and how they passed?

We all know something has to break in this situation cathay has created out of covid madness of silly land called hong kong. Its so sad its not cathay that breaks first, instead of out very dear friends and colleagues we have so many memories with.

This has to be made public news. Cathay shares are rising. At the cost of their long time loyal pilots literally dying of suicide and stress under pressure of having their livelihoods cut in half and working under conditions exponentially worse than ever before. You don't have to be genius to know in what mental health shape they all are.

Do the shareholders of cathay pacific realize what blood they have on their hands hoping to take advantage of this situation? Is this a healthy company worth having shares of? Forget about any ethics or decency in stock holders. But how can you justify buying stock in a company this fundamentally unhealthy in a business sense. They're ready to implode when flying demand comes back in a hurry at some point and they have just a fraction of qualified pilots to fly their airplanes. Losing long held money maker slots and being forced to shrink the airline down to a fraction of size because they can't operate anything more than a skeleton operation.

1000 cadets is what they are betting on. Same kind of cadets who will need at least 2-3 years before they can qualify only to be second officers not yet qualified to fly the airplane limited to in-flight admin and air traffic control communications type of duties. It takes 3-4 years for each one of them to become at least a first officer qualified to fly the airplane. Cathay has never had nor does it now have the training capacity to train more than a couple of hundred in a year. It would take cathay years and billions to create a big enough training department to handle the numbers they need to replace what is lost in pilot workforce.

Meanwhile they've bled away at least 1/3 of their most experienced pilots so far and bleeding more every month. Many still on the seniority list and on stress related sick leave are never coming back to work either. So don't think seniority list tells the total amount of pilots left at Cathay.

The board of directors has been for some time panicking about the lack of pilots to even expand a few percent flights back up being told by planning department "cannot, not enough pilots, cannot".

This is a company you buy stocks in? You must be a special kind of stupid.

I wish AOA had a public relations department. What a pathetic waste of oxygen of a pilot association.

One heart attack last week on returning to Australia after completing double closed loop
One jumping off a roof top in central on Sunday
not sure about a third

[Babyjet_dododo]

For pilots considering joining CX, the truth is, CX has perfected the following:
1) Working pilots under varying contracts where they can add and take away whatever they desire (POS18).
2) Able to trade your freedoms for the “greater good” of the company (Isolation in outports).
3) Threaten the livelihoods of their crew if one dares whisper stress leave or long term sick leave (Wanting to see your family overseas that you haven’t seen in 3 years)
4) Creating a “user- pays” economy by making crew pay to attend simulator sessions and store their things.

I’m waiting for the day they tell us that Dry Cleaning is no longer covered for our uniforms but they’ll offer us 50% discount at Vogue laundry.

[controlledrest]

The third was a guy in the UK. CX don't count that one as he was no longer an employee, so he matters even less to them.

[Gweilo747]

I’m waiting for the day they tell us that Dry Cleaning is no longer covered for our uniforms but they’ll offer us 50% discount at Vogue laundry.

You give this company too much credit. 50% is generous. I digress.

More importantly, a sad loss for our community and indeed for their Families and Friends. Heartfelt condolences to all. May their memories never be forgotten.

[Goldeye]

Today is “World Suicide Prevention Day” September 10th

And not a peep from our corporate spinmasters. Shameful.

https://www.rethink.org/get-involved/awareness-days-and-events/world-suicide-prevention-day/

[Flying Clog]

Cathay has blood on their hands. They will go down in history as by far the most mischievous and abhorrant employer in the aviation world.

Shame on them. And the deaths, divorces, depressions they have caused.

Completely dispicable, hateful, toxic employer.

I have no doubt that the toxic archetects of these schemes will be pointed in a certain direction at the pearly gates - straight to HELL! And I will rejoice when they do.

GO TO HELL AND ROT, CATHAY MANAGEMENT.

[Oasis]

I hope everyone here knows that the second death was not a suicide, but a heart attack at a young age of 50. Haven't heard anything about a ex-uk base death at all yet.

[Fridayflyer]

Suicide , heart attack what ever it is . That stress caused from putting up with the pressure Cathay are putting you under right now are not worth it
how many of you are going to look back on your death beds and be reflecting that you are happy you did that extra closed loop to get that extra 10k whilst going another year without watching your kids grow up
life is so so precious, don’t waste it on helping these clowns stay in business

[MENELAUS]

Irrelevant really. It’s two deaths. One whilst the young man (50) was on stress leave. And the conditions that these individuals have had to put up with must have had some bearing. And this is only the stuff we’re hearing about.

[Ecam321]

Cathay has blood on their hands. They will go down in history as by far the most mischievous and abhorrant employer in the aviation world.

Shame on them. And the deaths, divorces, depressions they have caused.

Completely dispicable, hateful, toxic employer.

I have no doubt that the toxic archetects of these schemes will be pointed in a certain direction at the pearly gates - straight to HELL! And I will rejoice when they do.

GO TO HELL AND ROT, CATHAY MANAGEMENT.

You might benefit from some anger management classes.
And learn some meditation techniques, let this s**t go, get on with your life.

[HoldenCaufield]

woke2022,

I have had similar thoughts with regards to the magnification our draconian working and living conditions have on what is going on in our personal lives. Many of these stressors have been influenced by COS18, which isn’t fully implemented for all crew yet. So more financial hurt to come for some of us.

CX treatment of crew and the HK conditions are a recipe for suicide.

After mulling this news for a few days and also thinking of many comments and actions from the company in recent years in particular, I have come to the conclusion;

Cathay Pacific do not care about your mental health, they do not care about the HK imposed working restrictions as long as the operation continues. They do not care if you die. That is purely an inconvenience.

COSDO, DFO and GMA all have blood on their hands over this. I really do believe that.

[Flying Clog]

You might benefit from some anger management classes.
And learn some meditation techniques, let this s**t go, get on with your life.

I respectively disagree Ecam321. What they've done to us, and many of us left in protest, as I did, but what they continue to do to the aircrew, torturing, scarring them for life, and destroying their families for their own gain, is abhorrent.

So sorry if I'm angry about it. I was lucky, I voluntarily pulled the pin on what was a great 20 year career, but I'm more angry for the poor sods who can't or won't leave, and now will be affected long term. And for what?

So I stand behind my strongly worded post.

[woke2022]

Cathay Pacific do not care about your mental health, they do not care about the HK imposed working restrictions as long as the operation continues. They do not care if you die. That is purely an inconvenience.


Nothing more true has been said before. I think many already knew this but now all, even the diehard optimists, must also understand and swallow

[Papa123]

You might benefit from some anger management classes.
And learn some meditation techniques, let this s**t go, get on with your life.
Ecam, are you for hire? Life management, like EAP but free on Pprune?
Why does his/her reply, no matter how vitriolic, rub you so wrong? Kapo?

[Ecam321]

Ecam, are you for hire? Life management, like EAP but free on Pprune?
Why does his/her reply, no matter how vitriolic, rub you so wrong? Kapo?

The kind of anger that I felt being expressed in that post, is actually quite damaging to your health, if not addressed appropriately.
And this thread was started because of the sad events of pilots deaths, one of which was probably due to stress and or depression. Which if had been addressed earlier, maybe there could have been an intervention and saved the poor lads life.

[Flying Clog]

I think I'm well within my rights to be angry, and outraged. After all, spouting anger is a relief and a release, and cathartic.

For some of us, we have dedicated 20-30 years of our life to, what we always knew deep down, was a highly immoral employer, and thus effectively a mercenary posting... the money was outrageously good... However, even though we knew that deep down all along, we still have the right to scream and shout about it a bit don't we?

I left Cathay, voluntarily (yes STW, voluntarily, I think you have me confused with someone else) last year, before Cathay could do irreparable damage to my mental health. I feel for my colleagues who remained, and I left behind in Hong Kong. I can't imagine what their mental state must be now.

Respectfully, FC

[MENELAUS]

Watch out for those Jo’burg egrets.

[Flying Clog]

Hiuh? Perhaps you should lay off the home grown. What are Joburg egrets? Are those the ladies who follow you from the Bull Run to the Sandton Sun with promises of a 'life changing experience'? I know more than a few who have fallen down that particular rabbit hole. Buyer beware, preferably sober!

[MENELAUS]

Hiuh? Perhaps you should lay off the home grown. What are Joburg egrets? Are those the ladies who follow you from the Bull Run to the Sandton Sun with promises of a 'life changing experience'? I know more than a few who have fallen down that particular rabbit hole. Buyer beware, preferably sober!

No soft lad. The ones that took your engines out.

[Flying Clog]

No soft lad. The ones that took your engines out.

Another one barking up the wrong tree :zzz:. There must be something in the water over there.

Keep fishing!

[cxskywalker]

The kind of anger that I felt being expressed in that post, is actually quite damaging to your health, if not addressed appropriately.
And this thread was started because of the sad events of pilots deaths, one of which was probably due to stress and or depression. Which if had been addressed earlier, maybe there could have been an intervention and saved the poor lads life.


ecam mate. Get on with your life and or watch some gay porn please. This forum is too crappy for you. Reading all these REAL issue in the REAL world will damage your mental health, if it’s not damaged enough.

[MENELAUS]

Another one barking up the wrong tree :zzz:. There must be something in the water over there.

Keep fishing!

Well, that's a load of codswallop! Don't believe what you read in AvHerald it seems.

A little birdie who was very close to the events on that day says he lost two of his larger mates into engines 1 and 4. Eng 1 severe damage/shutdown, and no indications from Eng 4, but upon inspection once back on terra firm, found damage to Eng 4 as well.

More than one Flying Clog then is there ?

[Flying Clog]

Yeah, you might still be up the wrong tree there. But well done for the research. Bit too much time on our hands on he 777 perhaps?

[MENELAUS]

Yeah, you might still be up the wrong tree there. But well done for the research. Bit too much time on our hands on he 777 perhaps?


Yes. Exactly that. Back to topic. Let’s not forget that we’ve lost 2 (3 ?) of our own, arguably down to the callousness of an employer that couldn’t give a sh@t about its most valuable asset, the people that keep the operation going.

[RAT Management]

The company will never give a damn about the pilots. The flight attendants are the ones that the company need to keep satisfied, after all they are the ones the public come into direct contact with. The pilots in their locked box can whine all they like. Just look at the teams meetings and yammer Q's. All manner of sensible requests from pilots for management to improve. But the standard lame response is always given.

Forget about it! It's pointless. They would rather hit the ice berg than turn the ship.

I have my popcorn ready and although they offer 2x G day call outs as a standard these days, I've heard of some getting 4x by trying it on when they can smell the desperation in the crew oops voice.

[Flying Clog]

Yes. Exactly that. Back to topic. Let’s not forget that we’ve lost 2 (3 ?) of our own, arguably down to the callousness of an employer that couldn’t give a sh@t about its most valuable asset, the people that keep the operation going.

Agreed Menelaus, the real enemy is CX management, and now they have blood on their hands that, of course, they won't acknowledge.

[veryoldchinahand]

It is sad see here that the normal suspects could not resist the opportunity try to turn this tragedy into another circus or wait to spout another pack of the usual farcical nonsense .
Shame on you.

[Papa123]

It is sad see here that the normal suspects could not resist the opportunity try to turn this tragedy into another circus or wait to spout another pack of the usual farcical nonsense .
Shame on you.
China, why are you sooooo defensive of Cathay (management). For most of us here I believe we see this as a sick play on a workforce who have no other career options. THAT is heartless.

[Cury Lamb]

It’s not complicated - it’s a freak show!

You can’t make up this sh*t.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x1398/079caf40_4c46_4cf5_8633_a769956dd697_a6098bc6354d9860dd64cf9 e302190fe7a01f99f.jpeg
Coronavirus: Hong Kong ‘to tighten rules’ for issuing provisional vaccine passes to travellers
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3192389/coronavirus-hong-kong-tighten-rules-issuing

[BusyB]

Its normal here to see the same old names stick up for Cathay when the entire staff management over the last couple of years has shown they do not consider staff at all.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Its normal here to see the same old names stick up for Cathay when the entire staff management over the last couple of years has shown they do not consider staff at all.

Stockholm syndrome

[Will IB Fayed]

China, why are you sooooo defensive of Cathay (management). For most of us here I believe we see this as a sick play on a workforce who have no other career options. THAT is heartless.

Are you serious? Literally the entire world is recruiting pilots.
Wake up to yourselves. CX doesn't want you.

[BusyB]

STW said this,
"I don't defend Cathay, I don't even understand the issue. A company is a lifeless entity created to make money. The job of management is to maximise profit on behalf of the shareholders within the respective legislation and environment. Employees' feelings or quality of life do not matter. Never have, never will. On occasion a company will treat employees better than in the past, but only if market forces dictate."

I think you are in a world of your own.
Cathay in the 80's and 90's had School Fees, House Rental/Purchase, Travel Allowance, Junks, Holiday Houses, Medical Unit with Doctors and Nurses, Dentist Surgery and real Profit Share all for Staff.
Hence the Loyalty and ability to operate on a tight staff manning policy.

Nowadays there are still companies who benefit their staff. John Lewis, for example.

I used to think you sometimes spoke sense but I was mistaken.

[BusyB]

Yes, Best if you weren't living in my world.

[poydras]

Very sad news. Few years back a sim instructor took his life. The CX stressful environment didn’t help. Au contraire….
Glad not there anymore. Life is normal in some part of the world and not working for CX have added back some years of health.

[anxiao]

In our time BusyB we were run by the Swire brothers who had a paternalistic attitude to management. It worked very well in that cultural and industrial era, I would have walked over broken glass for those guys, they had the organisational touch. As you remember we would work to the limit of FTLs to keep the show on the road, knowing that in the background there were smart people on the ground doing 18 hour days to keep the airline going, in typhoons for example.

Then we got manageised. With the entrance of Mr. Eddington who had the instruction and mandate to take CX into the 21st century, with all that that might entail. The market forces that STW speaks of were beating at the door, and something needed to be done. "We need to break the squadron mentality of the pilots" was one director's outburst. And so it was, to the detriment of the paternalistic system, which encourages and rewards loyalty and expects dedication in return.

The story is told in many industries and companies, aviation was not an exception. Perhaps STW did not work under a system where we enjoyed going to work, worked our butts off and were rewarded in return.

Best to you in your retirement

[BusyB]

Cheers to you Anxiao,

STW does not seem to recognise that some other companies still treat their staff with some consideration. He is obviously happy to be treated the way CX wants and does not want to improve them.

[Piet Lood]

Not only that. He expects others to be happy to be treated like **** too and ridicules anyone who sees the world differently than he does.

[Flying Clog]

Wow Anxiao, spot on.

I have nothing to add. Other than that you have my utter respect.

[G Merch]

This is the same, sad tale across all industries. Employee effort was once encouraged with security and compensation in return.
The problem is that on a spreadsheet, this model costs more than doing business the other way, which is gaining compliance via threats and punishment.
CX is probably the worst example of this.

[G Merch]

Of course it has.
What you're saying is correct, and I also understand that many people who have dedicated their lives to the profession are going to have a hard time seeing it go that way.

[Piet Lood]

Have you fine gentlemen ever considered that maybe, just maybe, aviation as an industry has changed?

Have you fine “sir” ever considered there was and is another option than to resign yourself to your defeatist attitude?

[Piet Lood]

We went down that road many times and my conclusion is that you couldn’t be bothered to stick your neck out for the betterment of your “beloved” profession.
Hence my assessment of your “defeatist” attitude.

[BusyB]

STW,

Are you really claiming that all companies in our current time Lie, Break Contracts and Break local laws?

[Ecam321]

If they can get away with it, yes, of course.

It all depends on demand and supply of workers. Companies are only nice if not being nice would block necessary human resources or risk a costly public backlash, reduce productivity etc. For instance, it might be actually beneficial for a company to deliberately illegally brake a contract or law if the repercussions are less costly than the status quo. Law suits are part of the business, they are just another strategic instrument. So are fines, just part of the business. Also keep in mind, in HK many of the practices most pilots call illegal are probably even legit, e.g "breaking" an employment contract and replacing it with another one.

This is how it has worked at the big Middle East 3, since 2005. Nice when the pilot force is lean, bonus paid, pay increase, lots of respect. When the pilot force is abundant, no bonus, no pay increase and a slash of conditions if they can get away with it. It’s atrocious but seems to be the way business is done these days.
It’s a cycle that will continue until the profession of being an airline pilot is reduced to nothing more than a city bus driver. Nothing against being a bus driver but you don’t have to spend 40k$ to learn to be a bus driver.

[anxiao]

STW I agree with your point about:

<it might be actually beneficial for a company to deliberately illegally brake (sic) a contract or law if the repercussions are less costly than the status quo. Law suits are part of the business, they are just another strategic instrument. So are fines, just part of the business.>

In a tense discussion with a DFO some 20+ years ago I asked if he was satisfied with the number of law suits that were being fought by labour against Cathay. His reply was that they expect to lose half of the cases, but that was in the budget. My rejoinder was to ask him if he was content to operate the airline 50% outside of the law, and should we operate Flight Operations the same way. The meeting broke up very shortly after that...

When you are well educated and brought up, then aviation trained, the concept of breaking so many laws as part of your business model was anathema to me.

Awful, Awful Awful.

[VforVENDETTA]

I wonder if anyone takes into account what the I'll will created in the employees costs then each year due to such business practices. When you claim in a business sense such practices are justified or understandable because it costs the company less, you must realize how it affects the attitude and behavior of employees regarding caring for the company's bottom line.

The amount of fuel I could have saved for cathay over the decades easily goes into millions. It would have cost them a small fraction of that in money and treatment for me to care enough to save. They didn't. They quickly set the tone and I acted accordingly.

So no, a business does not save money with Cathay like behavior. Im proof of that and I'm only one of many many.

[G Merch]

I wonder if anyone takes into account what the I'll will created in the employees costs then each year due to such business practices. When you claim in a business sense such practices are justified or understandable because it costs the company less, you must realize how it affects the attitude and behavior of employees regarding caring for the company's bottom line.

The amount of fuel I could have saved for cathay over the decades easily goes into millions. It would have cost them a small fraction of that in money and treatment for me to care enough to save. They didn't. They quickly set the tone and I acted accordingly.

So no, a business does not save money with Cathay like behavior. Im proof of that and I'm only one of many many.

Overall negligible.
The difference between a company loving pilot, and a pilot who wants to cause financial damage while remaining legal (i.e. don't break SOP) is nothing, compared to the amount of cost reduced by slashing everyone's conditions.

[VforVENDETTA]

Overall negligible.
The difference between a company loving pilot, and a pilot who wants to cause financial damage while remaining legal (i.e. don't break SOP) is nothing, compared to the amount of cost reduced by slashing everyone's conditions.

Without violation of any SOPs , yes its easily possible to cost the company more than one's entire salary,, each month. All it takes is exactly the type of employee treatment cathay is well known for. Not asking for or accepting directs, taxiing slow, no reti or at the last few feet, being on an A day (10hr callout) pax flight has one guy call sick they beg you to show up in 4 hours you're the only option and you say 10hrs and flight gets badly delayed calculate the cost of that in so many ways worst of all pax losing shine on company. Do the math on just theirs of returning business. There's a lot more, this is just examples. For instance, it costs cx 20 times more just in fuel costs for every minute added to a block time than the pilots get paid per minute. But yet some idiot cx manager decided to do away with block guarantee thinking it would save money, not knowing why block guarantee was introduced by airlines back in the day, exactly to save money.

Loss of good will always costs the companies more than what they presume to save by such treatment. It's very bad and incompetent management to think otherwise.

[BusyB]

When you remember incidents like the SO Instructors and the contract they had that was well broken ( as ruled in court) it is an example of total contempt for staff not seen with any other company. The more pathetic aspect of this were the personal promises and assurance previously given by the management to induce them to help CX .

[VforVENDETTA]

When you remember incidents like the SO Instructors and the contract they had that was well broken ( as ruled in court) it is an example of total contempt for staff not seen with any other company. The more pathetic aspect of this were the personal promises and assurance previously given by the management to induce them to help CX .

Yes exactly. Just imagine how much the ill will created in each of those individuals would cost cathay throughout their career with cathay,, if cathay were to survive and they were to stay at this point.

Imagine how efficient and caring the upcoming replacement pilots will be when it hits them flat in the face how cos 18 pay and benefits are utterly inadequate to live on in hk. How does that ill will serve cathay? It'll cost them operating costs of all kinds.

[Piet Lood]

Without violation of any SOPs , yes its easily possible to cost the company more than one's entire salary,, each month. All it takes is exactly the type of employee treatment cathay is well known for. Not asking for or accepting directs, taxiing slow, no reti or at the last few feet, being on an A day (10hr callout) pax flight has one guy call sick they beg you to show up in 4 hours you're the only option and you say 10hrs and flight gets badly delayed calculate the cost of that in so many ways worst of all pax losing shine on company. Do the math on just theirs of returning business. There's a lot more, this is just examples. For instance, it costs cx 20 times more just in fuel costs for every minute added to a block time than the pilots get paid per minute. But yet some idiot cx manager decided to do away with block guarantee thinking it would save money, not knowing why block guarantee was introduced by airlines back in the day, exactly to save money.

Loss of good will always costs the companies more than what they presume to save by such treatment. It's very bad and incompetent management to think otherwise.

BINGO! And thank you!
Now for your next trick: try convincing ole geezers like STW of this and the impact it would have had if all 3000 of us or even half would have done this in stead of resigning themselves to their fate of cotton pluckers.