Was That All?

[Buster11]

My father trained on De Havilland 6s at the No. 1 School of Navigation and Bomb Dropping at Stonehenge. Would this have been the sole confirmantion that he was awarded his flying brevet there? Seems a
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1050x770/cnd_2_redacted_85c24cf108fc7a5ec8d1ba1493b60d9d4064138a.jpg
bit off-hand.

[Ken Scott]

My great-great uncle did his observer training at a similar time - ground school at No 1 Observer School at Reading (in the Uni buildings), machine gun training at Hythe in Kent, then flying on DH 9s at Lake Down before moving to Stonehenge with a posting to 108 Sqn. On 14 June 1918 the Sqn moved to Croydon to complete their work up before heading to France on 22 July. My great-great uncle didn’t go with them as his aircraft had suffered an engine failure (the DH9 was rather prone to these, apparently where they stamped the inspection mark on the camshafts made it fail at that spot) on 8 July and whilst trying to force land his pilot had struck a chimney and they were both seriously injured. He was eventually discharged as ‘unfit further duty’ in January 1919.

He never received his Observer brevet as he wasn’t deemed to have completed his training. As an already commissioned army officer at that time he wasn’t allowed to transfer straight to pilot, he had to do a tour in the backseat before being eligible, his pilot however was a former private who was commissioned 2Lt prior to his flying training.

The accident probably saved his life though as losses on his squadron were very high. Ironically he’d transferred to the RFC (which became the RAF during his training) because his battalion had been virtually wiped out in battle while he’d been ill in hospital and he didn’t want to return to a unit where he knew nobody.

The ‘certificate’ awarded to your father might seem rather inconsequential but given the mass throughput of aircrew and the enormous casualties it would have been difficult for the admin to keep pace. The Court of Inquiry for my great-great uncle’s crash was beyond cursory, seemingly took 5 mins to blame the pilot for ‘an error of judgement’. But then the RAF lost about a dozen aircraft in accidents on that day (not combat related) so it’s significance was somewhat more limited than accidents today.

[WB627]

Buster11, if he was a pilot he would have been issued with a Royal Aero Club Aviators’ Certificate, which would have recorded in their archives. It would seem they have now flogged their archive of certificates to Ancestry.co.uk, I can't remember if I got by cousins from there, or off the Royal Aero Club website before they went to Ancestry. This is his record

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/738x435/medlicott_1_d56da78344354e9388feb5191b61e9f94eab9097.jpg

Quite a low number. At the time he was in the Royal Field Artillery but transferred to the RFC and No 2 Squadron and was in France in April 1915. He was shot down and captured along with his observer, the rather famous Arthur Whitten Brown in November 1915 having shot down five enemy aircraft. He went on to escape nine times from the various POW camps they held him in, but after the last break out he was murdered by the guards along with Capt J S Walter MC when he was recaptured, to prevent him doing it again.

I hope this helps you. WB

[beardy]

I have admiration for those early pioneers.

I suppose that some pedant will now jump in to say that they were never awarded a brevet but a badge.

[Herod]

They didn't get much longer in later years. Mine is admittedly hand-written in the logbook by an instructor who was a calligraphist.

"Certified that Plt Off XXXXX has successfully completed the course in accordance with the current authorised syllabus and that he is awarded the flying badge in accordance with Queen's Regulations for the Royal Air Force with effect from XXXX 1966".

Signed, then just the wings parade and a note in the London Gazette.

[luckyrat]

So it was his fault for the state of Stonehenge now !

I read a very good book years ago called “FIRST OF THE FEW’’. All about the early training and exploits of the RFC/RAF, well worth a read if still available?
Airmans cross near Stonehenge, marks the spot of a fatal flying training crash. They seriously thought of knocking down Stonehenge, as it was believed to be a danger to aviation!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1953x862/37844b21_ef2e_4195_a891_22c56ca47f9b_87277351ca5d4e01bedc972 70844ec3427e7e992.jpeg

[WB627]

My Dad was tasked with ferrying some top brass to Salisbury Plain in an Oxford, to watch the first dropping of a Jeep by parachute from a Halifax. Unfortunately it did not go well, the parachute failed and the Jeep was returned to component form on arrival at the ground. The brass watched in silence and then turned and walked away without a word said between them.

[Ken Scott]

They seriously thought of knocking down Stonehenge, as it was believed to be a danger to aviation!

I believe that was originally said in jest but these things have a habit of becoming truer with the retelling! It was only a few years before the airfield was created (1910?) that the farmer on whose land the henge stood was breaking up the stones to make gravel for his farm tracks…

[Lima Juliet]

I hate to disappoint beardy but they are definitely flying badges when approved in 1912 by HM The King:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/963x1620/769153fd_f9cb_4d07_8aab_36f3fabf6148_e06990c6bf099b623a8f236 9abe87d8e7bdd5e50.jpeg

Also, this is the original 1912 flying certificate with similarly minimal wording:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/990x1382/e0d0046d_6003_47b4_8a2e_ec7407eaf1a5_476f1b1048ccfb178e2a813 3e07ca370c258bdc4.jpeg

So really, some nincompoop back in the early days of the RAF decided to incorrectly use the word brevet (which is a licence, diploma or certificate) on the above certificate posted by Buster11, and they even write it in inverted commas (they obviously were not sure!), is hardly proof that the word is correct. My own graduation certificate some 78 years later clearly states flying badge. The KRs, QRs, DCIs and recent IBNs clearly state flying badge.

It’s a bit like some nincompoop deciding to call people in the RAF who do not fly or operate aircraft “aviators” - and I deliberately use the word in inverted commas! :E

[luckyrat]

I agree with LJ, these are some of the bit’s given to me in the last century 😼

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1258/36eba7c3_1cdf_4a13_a597_1d86ce276844_c1d7ef658ae3983a757d722 d183d74f966ec7bb9.jpeg

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Luckyrat - shame they weren't still issuing those chits in the 90s - I did a few massed approaches in both Gazelle and Lynx - scary stuff:)

[luckyrat]

Luckyrat - shame they weren't still issuing those chits in the 90s - I did a few massed approaches in both Gazelle and Lynx - scary stuff:)

Flying straight ahead was ok, it was the split in the centre with left and right fly away that got my bottom going “Half Crown Sixpence!”! 🙀…….