QANTAS, it gets better.

[Australia2]

https://michaelwest.com.au/wing-crack-fears-for-a380-escalate-customer-nightmare-for-qantas-chief-alan-joyce/


For long-suffering Qantas customers this raises the spectre of further chaos over the Christmas travel season. The airline is already struggling to deliver capacity on the most lucrative routes, desperately recruiting pilots, pulling training pilots out of retirement and engaged in an escalating industrial dispute with its dramatically constrained engineering division. It is even mulling leasing foreign aircraft and pilots to fill its capacity problems inflicted by management decisions.

Questions were put to Qantas public relations division for this story. As yet, no response has been forthcoming.

The unscheduled maintenance for the A380s – which is 50 days for each aircraft – and that will be conducted with a team from Airbus, threatens to exacerbate capacity constraints in Qantas international. Its post-Covid plans have already been stymied by the delayed delivery of new Boeing 787’s and the airline’s customers may find themselves flying on foreign owned and crewed 787s over Christmas, something insiders describe as “a new low” under Joyce’s management.

[Icarus2001]

Your link did not work….

Try this one…https://michaelwest.com.au/wing-crack-fears-for-a380-escalate-customer-nightmare-for-qantas-chief-alan-joyce/

[Australia2]

Thanks Icarus

[wombat watcher]

Old news, this was done in the 1980s for similar reasons.
Qantas was government owned then.
The children who write the online fish wraps and start the threads and are alleged insiders leaking out, should do a bit of homework before they get tooo excited.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Old news, this was done in the 1980s for similar reasons.
Qantas was government owned then.
The children who write the online fish wraps and start the threads and are alleged insiders leaking out, should do a bit of homework before they get tooo excited.

I think the point is that none of this would have happened if QF focused on running an airline rather than focusing on screwing the humans that make the airline work, both passengers and staff. Management saw this coming but let their egos stop them from changing their focus.

[dr dre]

I think the point is that none of this would have happened if QF focused on running an airline rather than focusing on screwing the humans that make the airline work, both passengers and staff. Management saw this coming but let their egos stop them from changing their focus.

Emirates, Singapore, Qatar, Etihad, BA, LH, Korean all have the same or more A380s as Qantas but somehow the article leads us to believe this is almost all AJ’s fault and a QF specific problem. The fact EK and SQ with their 120 and 24 A380s will be more substantially affected is barely mentioned. I’d argue proportionally this would affect EK the most, but MWM is on a bit of a vendetta against QF at the moment so anything like that will be blown out of proportion. Just like the upcoming Dnata strike action, from media headlines you’d think it’s solely QF ground staff performing strikes, only QF services being affected and more “Chaos for QF”. But they service most international carriers (owned by EK).

You can do a Google News search for articles relating to the 2019 AD, you’ll see back then the focus on the articles was on Airbus as a manufacturer and the aircraft itself, QF only rated a mention in these articles as an affected airline, unlike the MWM article where it’s now seemingly all their fault.

The AD extends the inspection area from 2019 and brings the time interval forward a bit. It’s not as if the entire fleet needs to be imminently grounded.

Half of QF A380s were inspected in 2019, it would been more disruptive to the schedule then to take them out of service for the inspections than now when most are in the process of slowly being re-activated, with crew re-training being the biggest obstacle to bringing them back sooner.

[havick]

Old news, this was done in the 1980s for similar reasons.
Qantas was government owned then.
The children who write the online fish wraps and start the threads and are alleged insiders leaking out, should do a bit of homework before they get tooo excited.

Or, shock horror, history repeats? Ie haven’t learned previous mistakes?

Either way, QF is now one of the bottom barrel products out there.

[LostontheLOC]

accountants cannot run airlines. Consistently skimming off the top has lead all Qantas group airlines to the bottom - What an embarrassment.

[MickG0105]

accountants cannot run airlines.
The data (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198219300545) tends to contradict that contention.

[43Inches]

Anyone can run an airline, whether the airline progresses successfully is another question. Running an airline in a low competitive environment where cost control vs a captive market interact is not hard. Add competitive elements and the task gradually gets harder and a pure numbers man is going to have problems as the elements that attract and keep regular clientele requires spending. The 'accountant' type axe wielding CEO has been the go to for the last 40 years mainly as we are talking about existing companies that require trimming to be competitive vs new lean competition. But too much focus on cost and not enough on product will inevitably make you vulnerable to loss of customers to try competition, especially if it undercuts you. Then the cost driven entities compete on cost alone until something breaks, and the whole industry spirals into oblivion. This was a major issue in GA, especially in flying training, no one stood out as 'better' so the consumer decision comes down almost purely to cost, undercutting and eventually a non viable industry that is just the next moron with cash thinking they can do it 'cheaper'.

If you look at simple cons business use to bamboozle the consumer, look at petrol prices, it constantly bounces up and down, so that each station is not actually competing at all, as the consumer has no idea what the actual price is, then loyalty programs, ie pay 10cpl more with us, but we give you 4cpl back, what a deal. All to pay for the same thing that you can get at any pump and probably 10-20cpl cheaper down the road if you did some simple investigations. Airlines have used the seat space tools, loyalty programs and other marketing tweaks, but really its now coming down to price in an accelerating cost market.

Point is QF has cut the fat out and is into the bone that gels the premium customers to the business, as long as the market remains saturated they will kick along, but if this downturn gets nasty they may find themselves in a spot of bother as the product is no longer a step above the competition.

[C441]

Point is QF has cut the fat out and is into the bone that gels the premium customers to the business, as long as the market remains saturated they will kick along, but if this downturn gets nasty they may find themselves in a spot of bother as the product is no longer a step above the competition.
This started 15 years ago. My brother, who travelled from Melbourne to Beijing 12 or 15 times per year in Business Class on Qantas, moved to Singapore Airlines. In his words, "I stopped flying Qantas when I could see Geoff Dixon's cost cutting before my eyes."

I suspect there are many once bolted-on Qantas high value Frequent Flyers who are now doing the same. It will be very difficult for Qantas to get them back.

[lucille]

Point is QF has cut the fat out and is into the bone that gels the premium customers to the business, as long as the market remains saturated they will kick along, but if this downturn gets nasty they may find themselves in a spot of bother as the product is no longer a step above the competition.

While all the “fat cutting” happened CEOs and senior management met their KPIs and were handsomely rewarded with 7 figure bonuses.
The airline lurched and bumbled along mainly through its own momentum. Then along came Covid, a once in a lifetime crisis / opportunity for management to exploit. And exploit it to the full, they did.

And then when the cracks first began to occur, the CEO living in some Bollinger soaked alternate universe blamed passengers for not being match fit. Truly away with the fairies.

[Icarus2001]

I believe AJ may have miss timed his exit. Late 2021 would have worked so much better for him.

[Checklist Charlie]

And then when the cracks first began to occur, the CEO living in some Bollinger soaked alternate universe blamed passengers for not being match fit. Truly away with the fairies.

Post of the year:D
CC

[Paragraph377]

And then when the cracks first began to occur, the CEO living in some Bollinger soaked alternate universe blamed passengers for not being match fit. Truly away with the fairies.

Joyce is living in cloud cuckoo land. Blaming the pax?? What exactly did he mean by passengers not being ‘match fit’ anyway? Should a passenger carry an additional suitcase and an extra months worth of medication just in case his airline loses their baggage? Should passengers travel with tents and sleeping bags in case an aircraft is grounded in an outback location with engineering issues? Should a disabled passenger have their wheelchair made from titanium just in case the ground handlers drop it on the tarmac? I mean seriously, the bloke is full of piss and wind blaming the pax for all of the Qantas woes. Not an ounce of humility and not a single mention of executive management accountability.

It’s now so very obvious that all of the cuts, downsizing, and scaling back done under Joyce’s tenure has boiled over. COVID is only one part of the causal chain, the rest of their issues can be attributed to the incompetents at the top cutting way too deep. Joyce has slammed Qantas with lean six sigma on steroids and the result is a hollowed out shell of an airline. And with a neutered Board too scared to cut this little worm free, they too should be held to account. Qantas may have a respectable share price, but at what cost?

[megan]

Events such as QF is facing (and a lot of others) reminds me of a story given at some lecture many, many years ago. Steelworks in Pittsburg family owned was facing tough times, agreement made was all would cut back their hours, no one let go, as production dropped so did the commensurate hours put in by each of the work force, pay cheque declined naturally, but each was getting by, things eventually returned to normal and the owner had earned the undying loyalty of his work force.

Herb Kelleher, co founder of Southwest, from reading seemed to have had a similar loyalty from his work force.

Any business is a triumvirate, investors, management and those at the coal face. In fact all three are investors, those with cash, those with management talent, and those at the coal face with the necessary skills (check in, IT, engineer, pilot, CC, baggage handler, tug driver etc etc). Only two on that triangle seem to be acknowledged as having any investment in a businesses success if the financial pages are a guide.

[43Inches]

Maybe QF should have taken a leaf from Ken Grenda, of Grenda Bus Corporation in Melbourne. When he sold the family business to Venture he gifted the staff a pool of $16 million to say thanks. The money was distributed based on time in service with some employees getting $100,000. Some staff members having 40-50 years at the company. The company was bought as a going concern, so these were not redundancy payments, just thanks."A business is only as good as its people and our people are fantastic," said the senior Mr Grenda, who has been dubbed the ''best'' and ''most generous'' boss in Australia.

"We have had people here who are second generation, and one fellow in the same job for 52 years.''

Unfortunately in aviation the quote would probably be more along "A business is only as good as it's CEO and employees are a cost to be smashed down to minimums"

[megan]

A business is only as good as it's CEO and employees are a cost to be smashed down to minimums"If the Wright brothers were alive today Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs

[MickG0105]

If the Wright brothers were alive today Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs
Well, to be fair to Wilbur, Orville did crash eight times, didn't he? A morning tea with the Chief Pilot might have been in order.

[twentyelevens]

Well, to be fair to Wilbur, Orville did crash eight times, didn't he? A morning tea with the Chief Pilot might have been in order.
Today, Orville would likely get a guided tour through mahogany row and promotion to management pilot.

[megan]

AJ is in a hot air balloon and realised he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a woman below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The woman below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You are between 33 and 34 degrees south latitude and between 151 and 152 degrees east longitude."
"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the woman. "How did you know?"
"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is, technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help so far."
The woman below responded, "You must be an executive manager."
"I am," AJ replied, "but how did you know?"
"Well," said the woman, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You have risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise, which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect people beneath you to solve your problems. The fact is you are in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

[das Uber Soldat]

Another casual 5.5 million for AJ.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/alan-joyce-pockets-2-2m-plus-lucrative-bonus-shares-despite-qantas-struggles-20220909-p5bgrg.html

[neville_nobody]

Check out the bonus schedule. AFR are reporting he will clean up to the tune of $13 000 000 next year if it all goes to plan

[PoppaJo]

He will likely depart the business having pulled in at least $150m. Goyder will be out batting for him though. Nobody is worth that much. What did they say, these executive salaries and bonuses are all ‘market rates’.

[Icarus2001]

Benchmarking.

Benchmark staff salaries to Bangladesh and India. Our costs are too high.

Benchmark executive salaries to New York and London. We have to attract the best and brightest.

[dr dre]

Surprised this has flown under the radar:

Dnata ground handlers have called off next week’s 24-hour strike after securing an immediate 12.6 per cent pay rise.

The TWU said the deal also stopped “attempts to scale back overtime entitlements” and would amount to a 17 per cent pay increase over four years.

Qantas Strike Off as Ground Handlers Strike Deal (https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/09/qantas-strike-off-as-dnata-ground-handlers-strike-deal/)

[tail wheel]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/07/qantas-complaints-under-investigation-as-accc-says-airline-not-realistic-about-flights-it-could-serve

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/qantas-statement-about-flight-credits-covid-disruption/6df159d6-d8e7-4815-93fa-de8200ca306a (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/07/qantas-complaints-under-investigation-as-accc-says-airline-not-realistic-about-flights-it-could-serve)

I think Qantas strategy may now be on the right track: https://www.theshovel.com.au/2022/06/22/qantas-to-phase-out-passengers-in-new-plan-to-improve-service/?fbclid=IwAR0vAoRdaOA0RqqKTj9XU_hgGOuj03L9dPzNHZUghuli8BKByq mm5ZHzKpg

[blubak]

Surprised this has flown under the radar:

Dnata ground handlers have called off next week’s 24-hour strike after securing an immediate 12.6 per cent pay rise.

The TWU said the deal also stopped “attempts to scale back overtime entitlements” and would amount to a 17 per cent pay increase over four years.

Qantas Strike Off as Ground Handlers Strike Deal (https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/09/qantas-strike-off-as-dnata-ground-handlers-strike-deal/)
Theres 1 person who wont like reading this & of course thats AJ.
It wont suit his rhetoric about wage freezes & 2% pay rises.
Well done to the Dnata staff who have suffered a lot during the covid shutdown.

[CaptainInsaneO]

Thats chump change. He just gave himself 15% in one year. Thank you 'our people'

[dr dre]

Theres 1 person who wont like reading this & of course thats AJ.
It wont suit his rhetoric about wage freezes & 2% pay rises.
Well done to the Dnata staff who have suffered a lot during the covid shutdown.

It may be a separate company but Dnata’s biggest Australian customer would’ve had a say in how much they were willing to pay staff. At the end of the day the costs of a pay rise are passed onto the customer, that being the airline.

It also can be used as leverage for permanent staff in negotiations, if the contractors are getting way more than a freeze then why not them?

[Transition Layer]

It may be a separate company but Dnata’s biggest Australian customer would’ve had a say in how much they were willing to pay staff. At the end of the day the costs of a pay rise are passed onto the customer, that being the airline.

It also can be used as leverage for permanent staff in negotiations, if the contractors are getting way more than a freeze then why not them?
It was noted that Qantas Pravda this week loudly proclaimed that the strikes had been called off, but conveniently failed to mention the reason why.
They must seriously think their dribble is the only the source of news for most employees.

[AerialPerspective]

I think the point is that none of this would have happened if QF focused on running an airline rather than focusing on screwing the humans that make the airline work, both passengers and staff. Management saw this coming but let their egos stop them from changing their focus.

What amazes me is that I have been managing people for 30+ years, different cultures, norms and in different countries. I've never had anyone complain that they'd been screwed, I never ran my department anything other than under budget, unless there was an explainable blow-out (additional flights not originally planned that did not leave time to recruit additional resources) and no one ever said they were poorly treated, screwed or were not paid everything they were entitled to be paid. In the last company I worked for, an off-the-cuff remark was made by someone from a different department that "most people here want to work in your department" - "Why??" I asked. "Because your staff respect you".

This is reinforced when you bump into people you've managed years before and they say what a great manager you were, certainly better than the standard today.

Not sharing this to blow my own trumpet, but to simply illustrate - this is NOT rocket science. It's not hard to manage a business well and some departments within airlines are multiple times bigger than most small to medium businesses, it just takes common sense, logic and a modicum of respect for the people working for you. Not clever game-playing and strategising and spouting management-speak, weasel word piffle, that spews out of management's mouths today. I banned that sort of nonsense in my various positions, I would actually say to other managers "If you're going to spout that reaching out, going forward, cohort, what that looks like, lean in bull**** then the conversation's over. Speak plain English."

[cLeArIcE]

You Said one word in your post that really resonates with me. We can talk about money, Perks, work environment etc all we like but the biggest thing that I feel has killed staff morale in Australias airlines is "respect." (Or lack thereof). There is no respect or care for staff and there is no respect or care for passengers. I've never seen it this bad nor do I see any end in sight. I'm worried this will become the new normal. If it does, I don't see how this career is sustainable in the long term.
I don't like people who make big deals out of things and constantly scream the sky is falling in. But I feel the pressure valve is very close to giving way.

I see JQ is in fine form again: (sorry that it's ACA but you get the idea) https://youtu.be/EZLfSD_S6GE
Is it just me or is the current strategy simply to keep quiet and people/ the media will forget and talk about something else soon.

[Lead Balloon]

But the fact is that, at least for the time being, there are more than enough people willing to pay in advance and line up for this kind of treatment. (Hence the word "sheeple" was coined.)

My guess is that the strategy of the bean counters is that when they finally rebuild some semblance of the capability they destroyed, there won't be enough people who've sworn never to fly on their airline again to make a difference to the bottom line.

[megan]

It's not as if the people have much choice LB, the term "sheeple" is unfortunately a term of disrespect and I would hope it's not how crews view their pax/guests/clients/customers, or whatever the current "in" word is.

[Australopithecus]

It's not as if the people have much choice LB, the term "sheeple" is unfortunately a term of disrespect and I would hope it's not how crews view their pax/guests/clients/customers, or whatever the current "in" word is.

Its not crews that you have to worry about Megan. Its the management class that sets the tone. At the front line its all too apparent just how many hopes and expectations get dashed every day. And no one that I work with is happy about it or proud of it. In fact I am back to claiming to play piano in a whorehouse rather than admit to working for QF.

[Lead Balloon]

It's not as if the people have much choice LB, the term "sheeple" is unfortunately a term of disrespect and I would hope it's not how crews view their pax/guests/clients/customers, or whatever the current "in" word is.
Of course they have a choice! Who’s holding a gun to their head saying: “You must fly to Bali” or wherever? And how can a flight be ‘necessary’ if it’s cancelled?

And I have no doubt that sensible crews do not view the majority of PAX as “sheeples” (though I’m sure some crews would prefer that some bogans stayed at home).

I’m referring to the beancounters’ attitude. If people continue to be willing to pay in advance to line up like sheep to have their bags lost and flights cancelled, why would the beancounters have any different attitude? The problem is that the sheep aren’t ‘match fit’.

[megan]

Who’s holding a gun to their head saying: “You must fly to Bali"But I might be going to my daughters wedding, or to her death bed, not necessary in absolute terms, but hell, it'd sure be nice.sheep aren’t ‘match fit’Few more laps of the paddock do it?

[Lead Balloon]

But I might be going to my daughters wedding, or to her death bed, not necessary in absolute terms, but hell, it'd sure be nice.Then pay for a ticket, join the queue and take your chances. The beancounters are banking on it.

[megan]

You've got me thinking is aviation necessary at all? Come to think of it, not much is necessary aka Aborigines ;)

[Lead Balloon]

I have absolutely no idea what you intend by your reference to Aborigines, so I'll steer way clear of it.

As to what you're thinking, think no more: Aviation is not "necessary", but it depends on what you mean by "necessary". The economists talk about needs and wants. Needs are things which, if not satisfied, result in you dying. Wants are things that make your quality of life better after your needs are met.

I've attended a seminar that included representatives of the aviation regulator and the maritime regulator. The latter opened by saying: "Without the maritime industry, half the world would freeze and half the world would starve. Without the aviation industry, there would be no aviation industry."

That's why the disruption of shipping out of Ukraine is important. Michelle and Ferret's lost baggage; not so much, especially when they keep paying in advance for the 'service'.

[neville_nobody]

I've attended a seminar that included representatives of the aviation regulator and the maritime regulator. The latter opened by saying: "Without the maritime industry, half the world would freeze and half the world would starve. Without the aviation industry, there would be no aviation industry."

Well of course a virus is going to say that about its host. Without a very important maritime industry there is not a very important maritime regular.

[Lead Balloon]

It’s more to do with a thing called “objective fact”.

[43Inches]

Ships, trains and trucks handle the mass flow of essential human items. Aviation carts the luxury items and holiday makers. Its actually quite accurate to say the world would not falter without Aviation, and correct that current populations in various places would struggle without regular surface based replenishment. With modern communications and devices there is even less essential need for people to travel. Most do because they can, not because they absolutely have to.

[601]

Aviation carts the luxury items and holiday makers.
The mail, the kidneys, the medicines ...........

[Australopithecus]

…the crop sprays, the fire retardant, the medivacs.

[Flying Binghi]

…..

I've attended a seminar that included representatives of the aviation regulator and the maritime regulator. The latter opened by saying: "Without the maritime industry, half the world would freeze and half the world would starve. Without the aviation industry, there would be no aviation industry."

That's why the disruption of shipping out of Ukraine is important…..



“…maritime regulator…”. I think his battle ship were sunk long ago. I wonder what the Ukrainians would have said if the yanks decided to use cargo ships instead of Galaxy’s to get the guns and ammo in ?

Back after Tracy visited Darwin I were out the airport helping to unload a cargo plane. Noted the big lines of people loading up onto the likes of Qantas. Perhaps the cruise liners should have been used…

[43Inches]

The mail went by boat, train and truck, it just goes faster by air, again a luxury. It goes even faster by email which requires no transportation. Airborne fire fighting is not essential, neither is medivac, they are just faster or different methods of delivery, as with medicines. Aviation aids globalisation so that time critical things can be made far away and transported, otherwise you just produce the product closer. Make smaller well positioned hospitals, train more specialists, so that patients need not be transported to centralised medical facilities and so on. Don't live in fire prone areas, which is still not a good idea as aerial application only makes the effort to stop wild fire slightly easier, no where near a panacea for it. That's how it all was before globalisation. Mass farmed goods and mined ores/gases on the other hand have to be transported. If we stopped aerial fire services and air ambulances, some, people will die. If you suddenly stop grain and rice shipments and gas, oil, coal, etc a lot of the world will starve or freeze, millions will die. If you stop aviation, we all get bored and cant eat fresh caviar anywhere we want. I mean you still could travel by ship or train, it would just take longer and foreign destinations would actually be foreign as the fresher local foods and things will go back to being exotic, not some warped looking version of what you have anyway.

[Lead Balloon]

Please FB, Austral and 601 et al: Don’t misconstrue my highlighting an objective fact as instead being an argument that aviation capability is worthless.

Please.

[AerialPerspective]

Benchmarking.

Benchmark staff salaries to Bangladesh and India. Our costs are too high.

Benchmark executive salaries to New York and London. We have to attract the best and brightest.

I can't remember where I saw it but some months ago I watched a quite well structured and well thought out presentation with evidence provided that tackled this concept of "paying to attract the best talent" and completely blew it out of the water. The guy that presented it, sorry, as I stated, I just can't remember where I saw it, said it is utter nonsense and in fact, paying higher and higher salaries does the exact opposite, it attracts the lower end of the talent pool because it appeals to people who's motivation is money and not achievement.

[Flying Binghi]

I can't remember where I saw it but some months ago I watched a quite well structured and well thought out presentation with evidence provided that tackled this concept of "paying to attract the best talent" and completely blew it out of the water. The guy that presented it, sorry, as I stated, I just can't remember where I saw it, said it is utter nonsense and in fact, paying higher and higher salaries does the exact opposite, it attracts the lower end of the talent pool because it appeals to people who's motivation is money and not achievement.

Jose Ortega y Gasset had an idea that might work there. Perhaps every one of upper level management needs to be demoted one level…:)

[Climb150]

I can't remember where I saw it but some months ago I watched a quite well structured and well thought out presentation with evidence provided that tackled this concept of "paying to attract the best talent" and completely blew it out of the water. The guy that presented it, sorry, as I stated, I just can't remember where I saw it, said it is utter nonsense and in fact, paying higher and higher salaries does the exact opposite, it attracts the lower end of the talent pool because it appeals to people who's motivation is money and not achievement.

https://youtu.be/kJdXjtSnZTI

This guy explains how the business world has 20 ways to measure someone's performance but virtually no way to measure their trustworthiness.

Maybe they should start making both a metric for bonuses. Watch remuneration tumble.

[RickNRoll]

Passenger alarmed by speed tape on 787 wings.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/jetstar-passenger-concerned-after-spotting-tape-on-wing-of-plane/d9f9e93d-fe4e-4531-baf8-6dfd96b9643a

[megan]

I have absolutely no idea what you intend by your reference to AboriginesI saidYou've got me thinking is aviation necessary at all? Come to think of it, not much is necessary aka AboriginesI thought the meaning would have been obvious, the Aboriginal in his native state has the ability to survive quite ably and happily with little to no impact upon his environment, and living in harmony with same. Unlike we who rape the environment by means of agriculture, mining, cities, destruction of fauna and flora etc We call it progress, but is it really?

[Flying Binghi]

I saidI thought the meaning would have been obvious, the Aboriginal in his native state has the ability to survive quite ably and happily with little to no impact upon his environment, and living in harmony with same. Unlike we who rape the environment by means of agriculture, mining, cities, destruction of fauna and flora etc We call it progress, but is it really?

Australia’s now missing megafauna might disagree…

Anyway, progress is what nature intended for all of us. We need to evolve to become a multi planet, multi galaxy, Human being species…. likely, an ElectroBeing.




.

[MickG0105]

Australia’s now missing megafauna might disagree…
.
Well spotted that fellow.

[Lead Balloon]

Must be full moon...

[Flying Binghi]

Must be full moon...

To Elon Musk it is always full moon - Shoot for it…;)

[RickNRoll]

Australia’s now missing megafauna might disagree…

Anyway, progress is what nature intended for all of us. We need to evolve to become a multi planet, multi galaxy, Human being species…. likely, an ElectroBeing.




.
Climate change did most of the the damage.

[Flying Binghi]

Climate change did most of the the damage.

And some of the damage to Qantas - The religion of Climate Change that is…

Via Noel Pearson, The Climate Change Quadrant, 2009:

”…Most of Australia’s climate-change action policy advocates … believe that climate change is real, is caused by humans, and that urgent and dramatic action must be taken to reduce carbon emissions. They are also economically secure. All of the media and the legions of educated people who believe in global warming fall within this quadrant…”

Seems Pearson is of the view that the rich are happy to pay their, to them, trifling tithes to the climate religion and the poor be damned… Perhaps he is thinking let the poor eat cake while they watch that Qantas jet fly over…



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Pearson





.

[Australopithecus]

I was wondering what the tuition fees are at Facebook University?

And, on edit, can you get your money back?

[Cloudee]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1334x750/3d0795ea_6e3d_4a9d_80a7_2c99b2347960_c9ad20ab87752b9d489b8ef caa56496fb7f94e7e.jpeg

[ampclamp]

Thanks Cloudee, I've been looking for that cartoon. I used to work with a few facebook and youtube professors.

[Flying Binghi]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1334x750/3d0795ea_6e3d_4a9d_80a7_2c99b2347960_c9ad20ab87752b9d489b8ef caa56496fb7f94e7e.jpeg

She must be going to show him the answer to that current hot science issue of “What is a woman”….;)


“…Gender studies is an interdisciplinary academic field devoted to analysing gender identity and gendered representation…”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies





:hmm: (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies)

[Flying Binghi]

It gets better…

From Australia’s so-called peak scientific body… “The Australian Academy of Science provides independent, authoritative and influential scientific advice..”

“…Gender-transformative approaches to just adaptation celebrate and engage women and non-binary Peoples in all their diversities as climate knowledge holders, leaders, decision makers, and actors in achieving just climate solutions…

…many of our policy and institutional settings, developed in the past, don’t lend themselves to immediate use, or even to revision or renewal. Policy processes, decision making protocols and institutional settings are the ‘means to the ends’ of climate change adaptation they determine who makes decisions, what information is called on, what groups get to have a say…”

https://www.futureearth.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-09/a-national-strategy-for-just-adaptation.pdf


Any-one still think Oz science is credible…:hmm:







.

[Australopithecus]

Yes, very much so. The policy paper you linked is academia at its least useful. Unless of course you take climate change as a uniquely personal burden, then perhaps this circle jerk has merit?

Climate change adaptation in Australia pretty much boils down to everyone getting a fireproof air conditioned zodiac.

[Cloudee]

She must be going to show him the answer to that current hot science issue of “What is a woman”….;) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies)

She’s been called back so he can tell her that he found an expert on climate change posting on pprune.

[Captain Dart]

AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) is not only a scam, but a substitute for religion.

Greta, the child saint
Carbon Credits= tithing or 'indulgences'
Those who question the 'settled science' (science is never 'settled') are 'deniers'
Dietary requirements: meat eating changes the planet's weather, ve must eat ze bugs
The apocalyptic result if we don't 'believe' after decades of (dud) predictions of doom
Erection of 'idols', i.e. windmills and magic squares, that will supposedly change the planet's weather

And like religion, a lot of institutions make money out of it.

[das Uber Soldat]

AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) is not only a scam, but a substitute for religion.

Greta, the child saint
Carbon Credits= tithing or 'indulgences'
Those who question the 'settled science' (science is never 'settled') are 'deniers'
Dietary requirements: meat eating changes the planet's weather, ve must eat ze bugs
The apocalyptic result if we don't 'believe' after decades of (dud) predictions of doom
Erection of 'idols', i.e. windmills and magic squares, that will supposedly change the planet's weather

And like religion, a lot of institutions make money out of it.
And this kids, is why we have to put warning labels on toothpaste.

[megan]

fireproof air conditioned zodiacParents owned the top version, never knew they were fireproof, alas, no air conditioning, unless you call opening the quarter window to blow air on the face.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x810/img_7890_8d7527cb9e670ae536d13aaf411392be40711cf4.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x905/side_view_of_a_ford_zephyr_zodiac_car_parked_on_the_street_l ondon_cn7jby_247c74e3ac3c583ceee0f85846b9495fd93e4992.jpg

[Flying Binghi]

Looking at all the rust holes I don’t think it would float..;)

[Flying Binghi]

She’s been called back so he can tell her that he found an expert on climate change posting on pprune.

Yes, its a shame that many ordinary Australians need to search the internet to check the claims of our so-called university scientist climate experts..:hmm:


When you reads the idiocy that ‘informs’ Qantas management, well, time to do yer own research:

“…more intense cyclones throughout northern Australia, and increased and more devastating storms and flooding further heighten risk (Lawrence et al. 2022). While all Australians face the risk of harm, the risk is higher for groups who experience structural disadvantages and marginalisation due to oppressive systems such as colonialism, racism, sexism, classism, ageism, ableism, and homophobia…”

https://www.futureearth.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-09/a-national-strategy-for-just-adaptation.pdf


And if yer looks at page 8, there’s that ‘Landcruiser Dreaming’. ….except there will be no more ecologically destructive Landcruisers allowed under the global warming overlords…:hmm:





.

[Chronic Snoozer]

You read that?

[SOPS]

I can’t believe people actually get paid to write this stuff!!!

[Climb150]

I can’t believe people actually get paid to write this stuff!!!

They do get paid to write it and that is the problem. Climate hysteria is a business now. The bigger the catastrophe the more grant money you get. I'm not denying climate change as it's definitely happening. But is it a crisis? The UN doesn't seem to think so. Climate change is currently ranked number 13 out of 17 sustainable development goals by the UN. Not even in the top 10.

https://sdgs.un.org/goals

[Flying Binghi]

You read that?

Read, yes. Comprehend the sheer idiocy of it, No.

Also had a go at interpreting the ‘visuals’ and representations that were the way of the word in Oz for 50,000 odd years…






.

[Ladloy]

I can't wait for the dinosaurs of old to die off. If that lady who could smell dementia had a sniff of this thread she'd have a lot of paperwork to fill out.

[tail wheel]

"Climate change" is a very profitable and rewarding business and now gainfully employs many thousands of excessively overpaid, exuberant disciples in Australia, for example the ABC, James Cook University, the Australian Labor Party, Greenpeace Australia et al.

It certainly reduced our Australian unemployment rate.

[43Inches]

They do get paid to write it and that is the problem. Climate hysteria is a business now. The bigger the catastrophe the more grant money you get. I'm not denying climate change as it's definitely happening. But is it a crisis? The UN doesn't seem to think so. Climate change is currently ranked number 13 out of 17 sustainable development goals by the UN. Not even in the top 10.

https://sdgs.un.org/goals

The UN goals are set that way as their primary issue is to help progress the billions who live in 3rd world conditions. There's no point focusing on climate action when your population is starving, uneducated etc. If you look at the list most of those goals will inherently combat climate change as they are promoting clean energy, lower consumption, smarter cities, etc etc.... For instance the rise of the Indian and Chinese middle class will blow away any gains the rest of the world makes if they are not educated on sustainable living as they progress. If everyone in China and India suddenly have the consumption, travel patterns, eating habits at rates of the average Australian the world is doomed. If climate change don't scare you, then the inflationary effects of this should.

[Flying Binghi]

The UN goals are set that way as their primary issue is to help progress the billions who live in 3rd world conditions. There's no point focusing on climate action when your population is starving, uneducated etc. If you look at the list most of those goals will inherently combat climate change as they are promoting clean energy, lower consumption, smarter cities, etc etc.... For instance the rise of the Indian and Chinese middle class will blow away any gains the rest of the world makes if they are not educated on sustainable living as they progress. If everyone in China and India suddenly have the consumption, travel patterns, eating habits at rates of the average Australian the world is doomed. If climate change don't scare you, then the inflationary effects of this should.

Hmmm… So, who gets to ‘decide’ who can do what, who can live where, and, who gets to fly on them big jets?…:hmm:



”…institutional settings are the ‘means to the ends’ of climate change adaptation they determine who makes decisions, what information is called on, what groups get to have a say…”


https://www.futureearth.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-09/a-national-strategy-for-just-adaptation.pdf

[Ladloy]

Hmmm… So, who gets to ‘decide’ who can do what, who can live where, and, who gets to fly on them big jets?…:hmm:



”…institutional settings are the ‘means to the ends’ of climate change adaptation they determine who makes decisions, what information is called on, what groups get to have a say…”


https://www.futureearth.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-09/a-national-strategy-for-just-adaptation.pdf
sky news maybe?

[Icarus2001]

rates of the average Australian the world is doomed. The world will survive just fine. The world has had much higher sea levels than now, plants love high CO2 levels. What you really mean is coastal cities may be forced to exist in a new way or move, the Netherlands has been below sea level for how long?
For every area that becomes too warm and dry for farming, another area that was too cold or wet now becomes available.

[43Inches]

Hmmm… So, who gets to ‘decide’ who can do what, who can live where, and, who gets to fly on them big jets?…https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/yeees.gif


That's the 10 Billion humans question, who gets the resources. Eventually there is a limit to our population on this rock, will we just be content eating specifically engineered proteins and sitting home watching youtube wired directly to your brain, to handle more population or do we just have bigger wars where we wipe a big chunk out and start growing again..

[Ascend Charlie]

Don't worry, Wuhan is always working on ways to control the population.

[Icarus2001]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x728/image_afc76f1221046a1ee5f4d2c5aee8805f363c9a96.png

Overpopulation is not going to be the problem we thought it was.

Most developed countries have low to zero growth.

China has a shock coming due to the one child policy, something short of the 2.2 child replacement rate.

AGING populations are the new threat.

[Flying Binghi]

Perhaps Qantas intends to get its “fully renewable” power from the Kingaroy wind powerless farm..:hmm:

About 17 minutes into this video of the QLD premier talking in front of a back ground of a non-working wind farm she says: “Watch this space, there’s a lot more to happen…”

Perhaps the white elephant might fly with a passing gaggle of pigs…


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgw_K67lqv8

[RealSatoshi]

Qantas domestic cabin crew have applied to take protected action over fatigue concerns and claims of outsourcing.

The Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA) said Qantas management "have threatened employees that they will not have access to work on new aircraft unless they sign onto new enterprise agreements that dramatically cut conditions" - Yahoo! Finance (13 October 2022)

[RealSatoshi]

Qantas shares surge as it forecasts stronger-than-expected first-half profit

The strong rebound in travel, combined with rising inflation, has led to threats of industrial action by some unionised staff because the airline was offering a two-year wage freeze followed by two years of 2% pay rises in its latest round of agreements.

Qantas said on Thursday it would increase the offer to a 3% increase after the wage freeze, at a cost of A$40 million a year. It is also offering bonuses worth around A$10,000 per employee - Reuters (13 October 2022)

[Deano969]

at a cost of A$40 million a year

Chump change with a predicted $1.2 billion 6 profit for the last 6 months

[Ladloy]

Chump change with a predicted $1.2 billion 6 profit for the last 6 months
What do you think Rex's profit will be?

[SHVC]

It won’t be anything close to QF haha, With one of the rex73 being parked up in Sydney for the last few days they must not be all that busy.

[Ladloy]

It won’t be anything close to QF haha, With one of the rex73 being parked up in Sydney for the last few days they must not be all that busy.
I'd love to know what Deano thinks is an acceptable equivalent profit from little ol' underdog Rex

[blubak]

Qantas shares surge as it forecasts stronger-than-expected first-half profit

The strong rebound in travel, combined with rising inflation, has led to threats of industrial action by some unionised staff because the airline was offering a two-year wage freeze followed by two years of 2% pay rises in its latest round of agreements.

Qantas said on Thursday it would increase the offer to a 3% increase after the wage freeze, at a cost of A$40 million a year. It is also offering bonuses worth around A$10,000 per employee - Reuters (13 October 2022)
Would like to see the conditions attached to receiving the bonus,there will be many.

[RealSatoshi]

Would like to see the conditions attached to receiving the bonus,there will be many.
Especially considering that all the C-Suiter's, after today's share price move, coined an 8.7% increase in the value of their pay packets and/or share options :\

[walesregent]

Imagine how big the profit would be if they’d tried running an airline, instead of a bag-losing passenger-stranding service.

[RealSatoshi]

Would like to see the conditions attached to receiving the bonus,there will be many.
Wait...Is this not the original $5000 (Sign the EBA to get it) + $5000 QF Shares that is regurgitated and presented to the media as a 'new' bonus :ugh:

[blubak]

Wait...Is this not the original $5000 (Sign the EBA to get it) + $5000 QF Shares that is regurgitated and presented to the media as a 'new' bonus :ugh:
Yes pretty sure it is,regurgitated is an accurate description to again make themselves look good.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Imagine how big the profit would be if they’d tried running an airline, instead of a bag-losing passenger-stranding service.

You forgot staff fvcking IR warriors.

[megan]

the Netherlands has been below sea level for how long?But they're wishing for a little water now, building are built on timber pilings, which because of the subsoil drying out are being eaten away by fungi, result, building subsidence/collapse. Dykes sinking also.

https://www.tudelft.nl/en/2020/tu-delft/new-land-subsidence-map-reveals-the-netherlands-instability

[AerialPerspective]

Old news, this was done in the 1980s for similar reasons.
Qantas was government owned then.
The children who write the online fish wraps and start the threads and are alleged insiders leaking out, should do a bit of homework before they get tooo excited.

Correct; Aer Lingus 747s, Tower Air 747s, Martinair Holland 747-200C and DC-10-30.

[AerialPerspective]

While all the “fat cutting” happened CEOs and senior management met their KPIs and were handsomely rewarded with 7 figure bonuses.
The airline lurched and bumbled along mainly through its own momentum. Then along came Covid, a once in a lifetime crisis / opportunity for management to exploit. And exploit it to the full, they did.

And then when the cracks first began to occur, the CEO living in some Bollinger soaked alternate universe blamed passengers for not being match fit. Truly away with the fairies.

Maybe this should the cure some of the outlandish god-worshipping about the Late James Strong - you can't go on a Qantas forum without someone singing his praises - fact is, the cost-cutting, the obscene salaries and fat bonuses, share vesting and retrenchment of expertise all started under the clown with the bow-tie. Dixon was next, but at least he had some notion of the history of the place, he allegedly threatened to walk out when his boss wouldn't shut up with the changing the name from Qantas to Australian Airlines nonsense. It's been steadily down hill from there.

The only upside is that at least the other guy didn't get the CEO job because as we saw with the competition, there probably wouldn't be a Qantas now.

[Stretch06]

Would like to see the conditions attached to receiving the bonus,there will be many.

maybe CEO pay rise and bonus should be linked to average workforce pay rise. That might make management think a bit harder when it comes to fighting against the small increases that the front line staff ask for

[Deano969]

I'd love to know what Deano thinks is an acceptable equivalent profit from little ol' underdog Rex

Anything over break even would be a bonus, however, need to wait 10 months for their results unless they issue an update
My bet is that they hit profit way sooner than they predicted, which was Q1 23 as QF/JQ have given them a huge leg up

QF/JQ had REX in their crosshairs and threw everything at them
No one can argue that QF/JQ have failed
REX has survived the initial onslaught (unlike many before) and so long as they continue with steady growth and adding more 738s regularly, they are a big chance of becoming the independent 3rd carrier Australia desperately needs

Note that even before REX announced they would enter the jet market I predicted this here and on AA.net
It was always on the cards given their expansive regional network, the possible collapse of VA just brought the commencement forward
Since VA survived with the Bain takeover, REX have adapted very well
QF/JQ, through their poof efforts have seen plenty of customers try REX and many are now showing loyalty where they can given the limited number of services REX has
This pent up demand to fly REX over QF/JQ will see them continue to fill seats as they expand

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

many are now showing loyalty where they can given the limited number of services REX has
So they are not increasing the pax base, just flying the same ones around?
Their loyalty will be only cost based. One day REX will run out of $10 tickets to sell at $9. Then we'll see where the punters go.

[43Inches]

You best speak to some pax, its not just cost, some folk are actually liking the Rex product as friendly and courteous as well as priced well, and timed well for country connections. Hearing a lot of negativity towards QF group lately, not just in the news but friends and family travelling with them, and very little related to cost, mostly all about treatment and product, delays, especially with baggage at destination. VA and Rex will be picking up a lot of disaffected passengers.

[Deano969]

So they are not increasing the pax base, just flying the same ones around?
Their loyalty will be only cost based. One day REX will run out of $10 tickets to sell at $9. Then we'll see where the punters go.

If you are saying that they are only flying around the same that they were prior to their jet ops, those numbers simply don't equate as REX has been growing passenger numbers significantly this year
If you are saying that passengers are re-booking then yes, I agree
Regarding their pricing, please find examples of $10 tickets for me.....
Finally REX have added plenty of new daily's on the triangle since MFM arrived, all with good load factors, so they must still have new blood filling these seats

At absolute worst, REX is at lease as good as QF/JQ and from all reports doing better from a customers point of view, aside from the 1 cent in the dollar FFPs and frequencies I can't see any other reason punters would choose QF/JQ

So I'll pose 2 questions to all
If you were a passenger who would you choose to fly?
From a passengers perspective, are there any negatives regarding flying with REX jet?

[Mr_App]

From a passengers perspective, are there any negatives regarding flying with REX jet?
They only fly 7 routes. Well from my hometown, its 3.

[Icarus2001]

Originally Posted by Deano969 View Post (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/648747-qantas-gets-better-6.html#post11313623)
From a passengers perspective, are there any negatives regarding flying with REX jet?

Lack of timely recovery due to lack of aircraft.

Lack of frequency.

Poor connections.

[Deano969]

So you would both prefer a larger REX.......

[MickG0105]

... VA and Rex will be picking up a lot of disaffected passengers.
There's no doubt that Rex are picking up some pax but it is not being reflected in any meaningful way in their scheduling. They added their seventh jet to much hoopla and they're now back to pretty much the same fairly thin schedule that they were running back in late August. They operated a grand total of 19 flights on their "domestic" network today and everything was done, dusted and finished for the day by 1500.

[Mr_App]

So you would both prefer a larger REX.......
Define large.

[SHVC]

Must not be to busy or that pent up demand is just rumor, since Saturday there has been one parked up in Sydney. More pax more demand would mean more flights right?! I’m not seeing that.

[Deano969]

There's no doubt that Rex are picking up some pax but it is not being reflected in any meaningful way in their scheduling. They added their seventh jet to much hoopla and they're now back to pretty much the same fairly thin schedule that they were running back in late August. They operated a grand total of 19 flights on their "domestic" network today and everything was done, dusted and finished for the day by 1500.

How's that work?
MLM added 6 extra daily movements
SYD - BNE was 2 now 3
SYD - MEL was 3 now 5
SYD - OOL unchanged 1
MEL - BNE unchanged 2
MEL - OOL unchanged 1
MEL - CBR unchanged 1
MEL - ADL unchanged 2

Now 30 movements per day with a bit of down time on weekends
As they don't have a fleet of like 70 one would assume there is a bit of give in their schedule too pull one out as a back up, good for them....
I'm sure they are tempted to put on another 2-4 daily sectors, but that could backfire if one went tech or weather delayed

That said, as predicted, looks like ADL - PER is next with NJE 190s between FIFO ops and more 738s on the way

[Deano969]

Define large.
20-30

[Mr_App]

20-30
Isn't Virgin adding 30 MAX's in the next 3 years?

30 to Virgin and Rex seems to a little excessive for the market does it not?

[Deano969]

Last few years there was hidden natural growth, the exit of Tiger and 15 odd frames and I believe VA are bringing some max as replacements
So no, 23 more is far from excessive

[wombat watcher]

Wasn’t Rex spelt Compass Mk1, Compass Mk 2, Southern Cross Airlines, Tiger, in the not so distant history.
Another possible spelling is Bonza in the future.

[morno]

I’ve done quite a lot of travel on QF lately, and I’m not sure how you get the impression that people are going across to Rex in droves. Nearly every flight I’ve been on lately has been chock to the eyeballs. Maybe they’re only going to Rex because they can’t get a ticket on QF.

[SOPS]

Son in Law was due to fly on Jstar very shortly, from MEL to PER. As he walked in the airport door, Jstar cancelled the flight and has advised him they can’t help him to rebook…he is on his own. However, I am sure Alan is due for another bonus.

[Deano969]

I’ve done quite a lot of travel on QF lately, and I’m not sure how you get the impression that people are going across to Rex in droves. Nearly every flight I’ve been on lately has been chock to the eyeballs. Maybe they’re only going to Rex because they can’t get a ticket on QF.

I don't doubt this for a second
But it's what happens when they fly on REX that matters and from what I am hearing, plenty have tried REX and have liked what they tasted
REX just needs more jets in the air
QF be warned, the days of the duopoly are coming to a conclusion

[morno]

I don't doubt this for a second
But it's what happens when they fly on REX that matters and from what I am hearing, plenty have tried REX and have liked what they tasted
REX just needs more jets in the air
QF be warned, the days of the duopoly are coming to a conclusion

*Yawn* Uh huh, I bet they’re scared :rolleyes:. Hasn’t worked for anyone else trying to take them on, I highly doubt Rex are going to be the ones that rock the ship.

[Deano969]

*Yawn* Uh huh, I bet they’re scared :rolleyes:. Hasn’t worked for anyone else trying to take them on, I highly doubt Rex are going to be the ones that rock the ship.
Care to place a wager....

[43Inches]

In any case if they are still expanding next year I would hazard a guess there will be a big blow up over slot access into Sydney especially during peak times. In the end I think QF and VA will be forced to cede slots for competitive purposes, more likely QF as somebody will just argue for them to use bigger planes less frequently.

[Deano969]

In any case if they are still expanding next year I would hazard a guess there will be a big blow up over slot access into Sydney especially during peak times. In the end I think QF and VA will be forced to cede slots for competitive purposes, more likely QF as somebody will just argue for them to use bigger planes less frequently.
Is there any reason you actually need SYD-MEL every 15 minutes ? Or every 30 minutes with twice the capacity....

[Colonel_Klink]

Is there any reason you actually need SYD-MEL every 15 minutes ? Or every 30 minutes with twice the capacity....

Because an A330 is not twice the capacity of a 737.

Plus there is the issue of aircraft utilisation etc etc. A 737 can be turned around in 30 minutes. An A330 can’t.

[AerialPerspective]

If you are saying that they are only flying around the same that they were prior to their jet ops, those numbers simply don't equate as REX has been growing passenger numbers significantly this year
If you are saying that passengers are re-booking then yes, I agree
Regarding their pricing, please find examples of $10 tickets for me.....
Finally REX have added plenty of new daily's on the triangle since MFM arrived, all with good load factors, so they must still have new blood filling these seats

At absolute worst, REX is at lease as good as QF/JQ and from all reports doing better from a customers point of view, aside from the 1 cent in the dollar FFPs and frequencies I can't see any other reason punters would choose QF/JQ

So I'll pose 2 questions to all
If you were a passenger who would you choose to fly?
From a passengers perspective, are there any negatives regarding flying with REX jet?

A mate of mine has traveled QF, VA and ZL recently. Because of the current post-covid situation, he doesn't use QF because of their prices (although he likes them normally), he has stopped bothering with VA as he's flown twice with ZL and in J and got full breakfast, the last time he flow on VA in J he got a cup of fruit and a coffee after they touted 'breakfast'. As he said to me, don't bother saying 'breakfast' if you're going to, at best, serve me a cup of fruit I can buy in WW.

[MickG0105]

Let's hose this bullsh!t down that Rex have added flights to their schedule since the arrival of their seventh jet. They may have upped their flights temporarily but this week (in a month that is traditionally one of the busiest of the year) they are running the same 102 flights Mon-Fri BNE-SYD-MEL that they ran in late August when they only had six aircraft.

[ActiveLooker]

https://michaelwest.com.au/wing-crack-fears-for-a380-escalate-customer-nightmare-for-qantas-chief-alan-joyce/


For long-suffering Qantas customers this raises the spectre of further chaos over the Christmas travel season. The airline is already struggling to deliver capacity on the most lucrative routes, desperately recruiting pilots, pulling training pilots out of retirement and engaged in an escalating industrial dispute with its dramatically constrained engineering division. It is even mulling leasing foreign aircraft and pilots to fill its capacity problems inflicted by management decisions.

Questions were put to Qantas public relations division for this story. As yet, no response has been forthcoming.

The unscheduled maintenance for the A380s – which is 50 days for each aircraft – and that will be conducted with a team from Airbus, threatens to exacerbate capacity constraints in Qantas international. Its post-Covid plans have already been stymied by the delayed delivery of new Boeing 787’s and the airline’s customers may find themselves flying on foreign owned and crewed 787s over Christmas, something insiders describe as “a new low” under Joyce’s management.
Plenty of EXPERIENCED wide body Aussies available to step in and take Direct Entry Commands at QF. If the public only knew there was more experience and skill in the jumpseat these days they would be outraged.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Plenty of EXPERIENCED wide body Aussies available to step in and take Direct Entry Commands at QF. If the public only knew there was more experience and skill in the jumpseat these days they would be outraged.


which aircraft would these hero pilots fly Active? The grounded A380’s or the undelivered 787’s?

you’re an idiot. Get a life.

[ActiveLooker]

which aircraft would these hero pilots fly Active? The grounded A380’s or the undelivered 787’s?

you’re an idiot. Get a life.

ok clown, prove me wrong. Heard a heap of experienced guys joined the other day as S/Os. 20yr Captains flying all over the World. Where have you flown and for how long? Step up hero, LHR, LAX, JFK, SIN, CGK, BOM, DEL, NRT, FCO, JNB, SFO, ya World travelled idiot!

[morno]

Plenty of EXPERIENCED wide body Aussies available to step in and take Direct Entry Commands at QF. If the public only knew there was more experience and skill in the jumpseat these days they would be outraged.

Why would they be outraged? And what does your comment have to do with the story above it?

Stick to your overseas “Commander” role buddy, we don’t need you here

ok clown, prove me wrong. Heard a heap of experienced guys joined the other day as S/Os. 20yr Captains flying all over the World. Where have you flown and for how long? Step up hero, LHR, LAX, JFK, SIN, CGK, BOM, DEL, NRT, FCO, JNB, SFO, ya World travelled idiot!

And who really cares? They knew what they were going into QF as. By the way I dare say they would show much more humility than you would dumbass. Who gives a toss which airports they’ve been into

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

ok clown, prove me wrong. Heard a heap of experienced guys joined the other day as S/Os. 20yr Captains flying all over the World. Where have you flown and for how long? Step up hero, LHR, LAX, JFK, SIN, CGK, BOM, DEL, NRT, FCO, JNB, SFO, ya World travelled idiot!

huh? What the fark are you talking about? Why is it a 20 Captain from some other airline, better than a 20 year Captain in QF? My experience is immaterial to your incoherent argument, but rest assured that there is only 1 of those cities I haven’t operated into. Now kindly, fark off.

[Colonel_Klink]

Plenty of EXPERIENCED wide body Aussies available to step in and take Direct Entry Commands at QF. If the public only knew there was more experience and skill in the jumpseat these days they would be outraged.

Plenty of experienced wide body FOs capable of upgrade at QF too. Seems this is an airframe issue - not a lack of crew issue.

[cloudsurfng]

Plenty of EXPERIENCED wide body Aussies available to step in and take Direct Entry Commands at QF. If the public only knew there was more experience and skill in the jumpseat these days they would be outraged.

sounds like you’re desperate to come back. Having ‘experience’ doesn’t mean you’re not a massive d1ckhead.

[PoppaJo]

The public only care about the price of the airfare, they don’t give two ****s if it’s an astronaut or a 200 hour body driving the thing.

Soooooo what you’re trying to say, correct me, is you’re part of the elite overseas pilot ranks who has flown to a million airports with your four stripes, and everyone back home needs to p!ss off outta the way and make room for you, cause you are top dogs and we are just lousy little domestic pilots?

Just remember you go overseas, don’t expect to be able to come back. That’s the reality. That’s why I never did it. My employer does not hire expats. Recruitment told me they are just more trouble to deal with vs your local body. I know cause we hired d!cks like you in the past who just create divisions with the know it all attitude.

[ActiveLooker]

The public only care about the price of the airfare, they don’t give two ****s if it’s an astronaut or a 200 hour body driving the thing.

Soooooo what you’re trying to say, correct me, is you’re part of the elite overseas pilot ranks who has flown to a million airports with your four stripes, and everyone back home needs to p!ss off outta the way and make room for you, cause you are top dogs and we are just lousy little domestic pilots?

Just remember you go overseas, don’t expect to be able to come back. That’s the reality. That’s why I never did it. My employer does not hire expats. Recruitment told me they are just more trouble to deal with vs your local body. I know cause we hired d!cks like you in the past who just create divisions with the know it all attitude.
for a moment I thought you were the most intelligent one on this forum.

[PoppaJo]

It is the truth. I worked in recruitment in my previous operator. We hired expats previously and had problems. Management said they didn't want anymore problems, what they really meant is they don't want anymore people who have an agenda when they walk in. My current outfit wont hire expats as they prefer locals from a prop who generally hang around. I have many many mates overseas like you, sandpit and what not, who are trying to come back, but the options are very limited. Now, not everyone is a d!ck that went overseas, but some are, and cause problems for the rest.

You are better off retiring at the expat job, buying a boat here or up in Asia somewhere for the weekends, vs trying to get back here for job that will likely pay half or less for the remainder of your career, and end up with little cash at the end and no boat! I mean I think I would prefer finishing up early on the 777/380/350 with plenty of cash, then spending the last 10 years slogging it out in some Alliance or Network gig just to get home.

[morno]

I’d love to know what ActiveLooker’s obsession is about having all these “experienced” Captains who are overseas, come back and take the jobs of local pilots. What benefit does that provide Active? And did you get rejected recently from an application to try and come home?

[ActiveLooker]

I’d love to know what ActiveLooker’s obsession is about having all these “experienced” Captains who are overseas, come back and take the jobs of local pilots. What benefit does that provide Active? And did you get rejected recently from an application to try and come home?
Just wanted to highlight the arrogance of blokes like you Porno. I’m done now. Enjoy

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

That’s not what he wants though Poppa. He wants a QF command, because he believes that his 20 years is superior to all others.

The guy can’t even read. He is the worst kind of imbecile. He probably drives the crew bus.

[cloudsurfng]

Interestingly, for all the purported ‘experience’, the reality is that some apparently rubbish FO from a 737 or 320 etc would probably have triple the takeoff and landings he does, therefore making them more experienced. Sitting in a bunk, then flying a STAR onto a piece of tarmac a few times a month does not make you experienced. Except in being a massive d1chkead.

[ActiveLooker]

That’s not what he wants though Poppa. He wants a QF command, because he believes that his 20 years is superior to all others.

The guy can’t even read. He is the worst kind of imbecile. He probably drives the crew bus.
WOW! One last post in defend of the hard working people that drive crew buses. Calling them the worst kind of imbecile, typical attitude and arrogance I was trying to expose. Congrats Fatty.

[morno]

Just wanted to highlight the arrogance of blokes like you Porno. I’m done now. Enjoy

Do tell, in what way was I arrogant? Mate I’ve been overseas, I’ve done the Captain thing, I’ve come back to Oz, and I don’t feel any more experienced than any other bloke who’s done the same thing in Australia. An airport is a piece of concrete, there’s nothing terribly special about most of them in the world.

As others have said, you’ve just become an experienced d1ckhead, that’s all.

Stay overseas “Commander”, we’d be best off without your cockiness down here. That’s if you were even able to get a job with your arrogance.

[BO0M]

Got to say people.......this entire convo is exactly why Australian pilots get a bad name worldwide. The expat thinks he's better than local pilots and local pilots tear him apart because they think they are better.
I'll be honest nobody else in the world gives a flying f*&k. Pilots are pilots, some are good and some are bad, no country is harder than another they are just all different. Instead of fighting amoungst yourselves over utter non-sense focus that attention on having each others backs and improving T&Cs.

Can' believe I actually took the time to type this!!! haha

[Jester64]

Just remember you go overseas, don’t expect to be able to come back. That’s the reality. That’s why I never did it. My employer does not hire expats.

Yeah sure mate keep telling yourself that’s why you didn’t go overseas….maybe because your little GA outfit out in bumf^k Idaho won’t employ expats, doesn’t mean an expat can’t get a job back in AUS. Plenty did, plenty are doing, and plenty will, including with all the major operators in AUS. But maybe just not your little outfit coz you said so….Care to name it? Would love to hear it, or a you just talking ****?

[Falling Leaf]

Got to say people.......this entire convo is exactly why Australian pilots get a bad name worldwide. The expat thinks he's better than local pilots and local pilots tear him apart because they think they are better.
I'll be honest nobody else in the world gives a flying f*&k. Pilots are pilots, some are good and some are bad, no country is harder than another they are just all different. Instead of fighting amoungst yourselves over utter non-sense focus that attention on having each others backs and improving T&Cs.

Well said!! I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. :ok:

I have been browsing these forums for over 18 years and I am continually dismayed at the name calling, point scoring, back stabbing and carry on that so called 'Professional Pilots' indulge in! While I hope it is just a vocal minority putting us all into disrepute, I can see why the industry here is so toxic. The divide and conquer strategy of our supposed betters has indeed being successful, they are laughing all the way to the bank while Aussie Pilots piss over each others backs on their way down the drain.

[Eclan]

Yeah sure mate keep telling yourself that’s why you didn’t go overseas….maybe because your little GA outfit out in bumf^k Idaho won’t employ expats, doesn’t mean an expat can’t get a job back in AUS. Plenty did, plenty are doing, and plenty will, including with all the major operators in AUS. But maybe just not your little outfit coz you said so….Care to name it? Would love to hear it, or a you just talking ****?
Well, that made me laugh. Thank you.

Meanwhile on Qantas, are those clowns still going everywhere with wing inspection lights on? This sort of thing is indicative of the attitude that makes them hated everywhere. Whose resignation do we have to wait for to make that one go away?

[PoppaJo]

Yeah sure mate keep telling yourself that’s why you didn’t go overseas….maybe because your little GA outfit out in bumf^k Idaho won’t employ expats, doesn’t mean an expat can’t get a job back in AUS. Plenty did, plenty are doing, and plenty will, including with all the major operators in AUS. But maybe just not your little outfit coz you said so….Care to name it? Would love to hear it, or a you just talking ****?
All the major operators? Mine doesn’t. In 15 years here I have never sat next to someone that has been overseas. In my previous employer, nearly all I sat next to had been overseas.

I never said they can’t get a job back here. Plenty of operators will offer jobs, I think we have seen that which is good to see. However, it would be very challenging for a return expat to find themselves at some point, in the left seat at QF Mainline /VA/JQ. Considerable wait times currently exist for the changing of seats, even if they did get a look in.

Come back in a few years and this will likely reverse, ie everyone going back overseas again to retire with a bigger bank balance.

[Australopithecus]

Well, that made me laugh. Thank you.

Meanwhile on Qantas, are those clowns still going everywhere with wing inspection lights on? This sort of thing is indicative of the attitude that makes them hated everywhere. Whose resignation do we have to wait for to make that one go away?

Yeah, but to be fair they also get around with the position lights off.

[43Inches]

Yeah, but to be fair they also get around with the position lights off.

Don't forget the odd stealth departure out of Launy at night.

[Transition Layer]

Yeah, but to be fair they also get around with the position lights off.
Beat me to it! I know which one is making me more visible during the day, and it’s not the ones on the wing tips

[Australopithecus]

Yeah, I know, but we seem to be the only country where it is somehow considered smart to turn them off despite what is written in the regs. I can’t tell you many company aircraft I’ve seen taxiing in the evening in stealth mode.

[turbantime]

Out of interest, what is the real reason for taxiing around with the position lights off? Always been curious about this.

[aussieflyboy]

Out of interest, what is the real reason for taxiing around with the position lights off? Always been curious about this.

Hangover from GA days - saving the light bulbs.

[turbantime]

Hangover from GA days - saving the light bulbs.
Surely that can’t be right when they taxi around with all their other lights on? Are position lights more expensive than wing inspection and runway turnoff globes? I’m genuinely curious as to the reasoning of this SOP.

[Transition Layer]

Surely that can’t be right when they taxi around with all their other lights on? Are position lights more expensive than wing inspection and runway turnoff globes? I’m genuinely curious as to the reasoning of this SOP.
Also curious…perhaps a question for the Yammer crowd :}

[Australopithecus]

Its not an SOP, its just bad habit

[Captn Rex Havack]

And blinds every other aircraft trying to taxi near them

[langham]

It actually is SOP, written into the manuals

[Australopithecus]

Not the position lights. The wing inspection lights are, yes. But that still does not make them a “best practice “ as we are so fond of claiming.

[langham]

I’m not claiming it’s best practice, I’m just saying that Qantas pilots are complying with SOP as they are bound to and therefore, they are not “clowns”, as a previous poster claimed. I don’t quite understand your statement on position lights, could you elaborate please?

[Australopithecus]

The prior discussion started when someone called QF pilots clowns for blinding other traffic with wing inspection lights. (And for that matter aiming taxi lights at opposing traffic while at the holding point)

Yes, the use of wing inspection lights is mandatory, and yes, we all comply. It is possible to be in complete compliance and a complete knob concurrently as I am sure you are aware.

With regard to position lights: For some reason it seems to be an Australian trait to cling to dumb ideas learned in GA, such as not using the navigation lights in daylight, despite them being required for IFR flight. As a result you often see, as I have previously mentioned, QF aircraft without wing tip lights illuminated. Until such time as a hapless observer has been blinded by the wing lights he or she may not be instantly aware of conflicting ramp traffic passing in front.

I have seen aircraft pushing back on a dark cargo ramp with just a beacon which is an underwriter’s (and headline writer's) dream.

[Troo believer]

Arm chair admirals at it again. Try lawn bowls instead.

[langham]

26.24 Navigation lights

(1) An aircraft operating by night must be fitted with navigation lights.

(2) When required to be fitted, navigation lights must be displayed during a flight, and when operating on the movement area of an aerodrome.

I can see it could open to interpretation but it is my understanding position lights are only required at night. I stand to be corrected.
Above reference from MOS 91.
I'm not arguing airmanship but take exception to the vitriol directed at Qantas pilots who, it seems, are only following SOP. Yes, sometimes the lights are left on at the holding point, I’ve seen it from a variety of operators but I always give them the benefit of the doubt , just an oversight.

[Icarus2001]

such as not using the navigation lights in daylight, despite them being required for IFR flight. Can you provide a reference for that requirement?

[Australopithecus]

My apologies. I was thinking about IMC conditions, not IFR flight per se. 6 Position and anti-collision lights

Equipment for displaying the lights prescribed in regulation 196 of CAR 1988.

Note In accordance of the provision of subregulation 195 (1) of CAR 1988, position and anti-collision lights must be displayed at night and in conditions of poor visibility.

[Australopithecus]

Arm chair admirals at it again. Try lawn bowls instead.

Nah. Tried it once. They were doing it wrong.

[Eclan]

My apologies, it was not my intention to suggest anyone's a clown for following an SOP. But some clown who invented aviation dreamt up that SOP and the pilots bear the brunt because wherever they go with their wing lights on people think they are clowns. In Australia everyone's obviously used to the clownishness but around the world they have somewhat of a rep for this sort of thing.

[cloudsurfng]

My apologies, it was not my intention to suggest anyone's a clown for following an SOP. But some clown who invented aviation dreamt up that SOP and the pilots bear the brunt because wherever they go with their wing lights on people think they are clowns. In Australia everyone's obviously used to the clownishness but around the world they have somewhat of a rep for this sort of thing.

I asked about this a few years ago. I’m unable to find it, but was told by a tech pilot who was involved in the implementation review that the wing lights on taxi are a recommendation in some document (IATA? ICAO? I’m not familiar with these things…) and that’s where the policy came from.

TBH, I’d rather be blinded by the wing lights than not see the other aircraft at all. Perhaps someone in the know can comment on why some 737/320 enjoy waiting at B4 in SYD with literally nothing switched on. Makes it very hard crossing 07/25 and continuing North on B.

[43Inches]

It may also be from rule statements that say "display all external lights", which would include position lights, technically wing lights and so on. Lights during the day can actually distort distance judgement, which is why I'm not a fan of driving lights on cars. Makes it harder to judge gaps in broad daylight, some drivers will take it cautious and stop for longer, others will take the risk and just go anyway, who cares who's right, its and accident anyway. The light is also on the fuselage, not the wingtip, so dazzeling you up to 50 meters from where the collision point is side on might be counter intuitive. Places like Sydney there are lights everywhere, so adding to the confused mess does not help, and if you can't see the broadside of a white and red 737 within 100 mt of it how the hell did you pass a medical.

Position lights for night operations are also supposed to aid the observer in telling direction of travel, adding odd unnecessary lights could confuse this ability, hence why anti collision lights flash/strobe as well.

[Eclan]

I know which one is making me more visible during the day, and it’s not the ones on the wing tips
I may be wrong but suspect Autralophthisiucuss (did I get that right??) may've been being facetious.

I use a different technique during daytime: I keep my eyes open and looking around and in 20,000 hours have never hit another airliner. At night I see beacons, nav lights, even passenger window lights and have never hit anyone. But seeing only a red beacon below a steady white light may lead the observer to think he's looking at the steady white tail light of an older type. Thought was put into the design and location of aircraft lighting and introducing something random like this SOP works against it.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

So is it because of these clowns that we now have a new item on the Airbus parking checklist?

[morno]

I doubt it. Read the methodology behind it in I think it’s the FCTM. Qantas aren’t the only ones in the world to use them during a flight.

[Jetsbest]

D’oh. Multiple post. Sorry

[Jetsbest]

…and again…:ugh:

[Jetsbest]

It’s because they were once left “ON” and, when parked with the Air Bridge attached, the rubber weather shield caught fire because of the heat.:O

[43Inches]

It’s because they were once left “ON” and, when parked with the Air Bridge attached, the rubber weather shield caught fire because of the heat.:O

And hence using them for what they are not designed for, are they even rated for ground use without airflow for cooling? Or has no one thought of that for ground operations. And yes airframe manufacturers can easily overlook these sort of things as they don't see a problem until it is, that the light manufacturer probably has in a fine print list somewhere that it requires airflow or cooling during extended operation. Anyway, that will probably lead to them being LED and even more blinding.