CAHC Closure - More Ac Losses?

[ej200man]

Sad news from the deep South, Cornwall Council have forced the closure of Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre.

It seems to have been on the cards for a while, lets hope some of the Ac can be moved!

[Jhieminga]

Statement from the directors and management:
** CORNWALL AVIATION HERITAGE CENTRE TO CLOSE FROM 31ST OCTOBER 2022 **

It is with heavy hearts and dismay that we can confirm that we are set to close permanently following Cornwall Council's decision to no longer support our museum and therefore evict us from our site without viable alternatives being offered.

The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre is a unique, highly successful, interactive aerospace visitor centre and education hub based at Cornwall Airport, near to the new Spaceport Cornwall.

CAHC was created by local people, is privately funded, pays commercial rents to Cornwall Council and is becoming nationally recognised as an aerospace site of excellence, yet Cornwall Council have failed to recognise the cultural & heritage value of our museum.

The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (‘CAHC’) is a unique, popular, growing, tourism, heritage and education centre.
Situated at Cornwall Airport near to the new Spaceport project, it is locally owned and operates with no support from Cornwall Council who, as owners of Cornwall Airport, are its landlords.
For 7 years CAHC’s owners, staff and volunteers have worked night and day to create something truly unique and very special for Cornwall. The result is an award-winning, top-rated visitor destination and major aerospace/STEM education centre with industry and education collaborations within and outside Cornwall.
Cornwall Council have terminated CAHC’s lease and given a deadline to vacate the site by 31/3/23.
With 20+ airframes of all sizes and thousands of exhibits, suitable alternative locations are few and need to be at or adjacent to Cornwall Airport and costs of relocation would cost hundreds of thousands.
Cornwall Council committed to assist CAHC to relocate their operation but have since refused to make good on these commitments. For more than 10 months the Council have refused to even discuss relocation proposals and funding sources.
With no options for relocation and with Cornwall Council refusing to help, the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre, the only aerospace museum in Cornwall, Devon and Dorset will have to close forever.
All of this amazing amenity and opportunity will be lost. Jobs will be destroyed. Valuable and historic aircraft of all sizes will have to be scrapped because of the prohibitive cost of road transport. The opportunity to inspire and educate Cornwall’s future generations will be lost. 60 dedicated veteran and retired volunteers will lose a vital part of their lives.
Cornwall Council should be welcoming this unparalleled opportunity for Cornwall and, as a crucial part of the Levelling Up agenda, the Council should be encouraging and nurturing the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre in its bid to provide the County with a National quality aerospace destination and centre for learning – at no cost to the County. Instead Cornwall Council is destroying it.

Thank you for taking the time to read this news. We are all devastated, but we will still work to find a solution or, if not successful, to find ways to preserve the aircraft and exhibits.

The Directors and Management of CAHC

PETITION HERE: https://www.change.org/p/save-cornwall-aviation-heritage-centre

[VictorGolf]

This should be near the top of the incoming PM's "to-do" list. I've subscribed.

[DHfan]

What's it got do with the PM?

[VictorGolf]

Mainly that it's a strongly Conservative area and he/she could win some Brownie points for doing some "levelling up".

[DHfan]

How? It's a decision that's been made by Cornwall Council and nothing to do with the PM, or any other MP.

I should be fairly close to St Mawgan in the next few weeks so I'll make a point of visiting, having not been there since it first opened, briefly, as Air Atlantique.

[Pypard]

Much though we might not like it, some perspective is required here: politicians have many, many more important issues on their plates and the closure of an aviation museum probably wouldn't register with any of them. I'd be rather annoyed if it did.

[Nige321]

It looks like there's more to this than the museum are letting on... (https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/council-explains-cornwall-aviation-heritage-7534654?fbclid=IwAR0CClvqkZCEvSWQWloQPxrAcgbC8izwQk1_lt_pqRs O0ChDBnrIyE2fnrY)

A day after the shock announcement of another museum shutting down in Cornwall, the council has clarified its position as the owner of its premises. Cornwall (https://www.cornwalllive.com/all-about/cornwall) Aviation Heritage Centre (CAHC) in Newquay (https://www.cornwalllive.com/all-about/newquay) announced yesterday (Wednesday, August 31) that it would be closing down after the council let its lease end.

The museum, education centre and tourist attraction sits in land belonging to Cornwall Airport Newquay (https://www.cornwalllive.com/all-about/newquay-airport), which is owned by Cornwall Council.
CAHC has existed on the site for seven years and is mostly volunteer run.

Beloved by many in the county and beyond, thousands of whom have already called for its protection from closure (https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/aviation-petition-7532936), the museum contains hundreds of model planes, as well as some decommissioned aircraft.
The museum said in a statement yesterday that the centre's lease has been pulled by the council.
As well as this, CAHC claimed the council had failed to make good on a promise to help it relocate.

See it's full heartfelt announcement here (https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/aviation-museum-close-forever-after-7531338).Cornwall Council (https://www.cornwalllive.com/all-about/cornwall-council), however, has since clarified its position - and did not cut off the lease.
A spokesperson said: "Newquay airport is an operational airport which is vital to the region's connectivity to the UK.
It is currently subsidised by the Cornish taxpayer and Cornwall Council is committed to develop the airport in a way which minimises this subsidy and continues to develop the site as a key part of Cornwall’s transport and business infrastructure.

"As part of this work, the council is reviewing the use of the land at the airport site to ensure the taxpayer is getting the maximum value for money from it and to increase the economic benefit and professional employment opportunities for Cornwall.

"Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (CAHC) has been a tenant at Newquay Airport since 2015.
They signed a disclaimer at that point acknowledging there was no right of renewal when its lease expired in 2021.
However, in order to assist the centre to find a new site, the Council extended the lease by a further 12 months.

"Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay are not responsible for the operation of a private business and securing a site on which to operate is the responsibility of the management of the centre.

"Cornwall Council has made it clear to CAHC that we will consider assisting them to move to a new location when a credible, costed and deliverable proposal has been developed.
However, this remains the responsibility of the centre."

[Jhieminga]

A bit of context:
- It was the Classic Air Force that set up a museum at Newquay, back in March 2013.
- The Classic Air Force museum at Newquay closed in March 2015, leaving behind several airframes that could not be easily moved. The Classic Air Force itself closed shop in the summer of 2015.
- The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre was set up in 2015 to save the static airframes at Newquay and evolved into the museum it is now.
- The museum moved to its current location in July 2015, vacating the large hangar that was originally used and moving to HAS 3.

CAHC was set up to make the most of the situation that was created by the short-lived Newquay venture of the Classic Air Force. Because of this, they did not start with a solid base or a clear long-term goal (beyond saving the airframes). But they have taken up these challenges and created a great museum in a location that is pretty short on aviation-themed tourist attractions.

I'm sure that the statement about the lease expiration date in the news item above is correct, but this is the proverbial rock and a hard place that they found themselves in. Having a collection of airframes means that you are very limited in what you can do, just look at the Bruntingthorpe shenanigans if you want another example. CAHC have been in discussion with the council for a long time about this, and the lease extention was one result but having to close up shop was certainly not the end goal.

CAHC has shown that it can provide a worthwhile tourist attraction, that it can stand on its own two feet financially, so unless there is a very compelling argument for kicking them out, I don't see why the council shouldn't support this venture by allowing them to continue doing what they do well? I have not seen evidence of other plans for HAS 3 and the area that the museum currently occupies although I have no doubt that the council has visions of modern businesses that are able to pay a lot more rent than what would be reasonable for CAHC.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Allan Lupton]

Sign the petition but do not send money - this appeared when someone did a search: "Change.org is a multimillion-dollar private for-profit organization, despite the misleading use of their .org instead of .com. It is not nor has it ever been a non-profit. In fact, every year Change.org brings in millions of dollars in revenue from a variety of clients for a total estimate of $72 million dollars, with one of its biggest backers being LinkedIn Founder Reid Hoffman. If you click on the link I added for the amount they made, the website specifically shows their industry as being under “Non-Profit” but the Company Type is “For Profit”."

[SWBKCB]

CAHC has shown that it can provide a worthwhile tourist attraction, that it can stand on its own two feet financially, so unless there is a very compelling argument for kicking them out, I don't see why the council shouldn't support this venture by allowing them to continue doing what they do well? I have not seen evidence of other plans for HAS 3 and the area that the museum currently occupies although I have no doubt that the council has visions of modern businesses that are able to pay a lot more rent than what would be reasonable for CAHC.

Surely this is the key point? What are the plans for the site once it is vacated? The councils statement doesn't really add anything.

[GeeRam]

CAHC has shown that it can provide a worthwhile tourist attraction, that it can stand on its own two feet financially, so unless there is a very compelling argument for kicking them out, I don't see why the council shouldn't support this venture by allowing them to continue doing what they do well? I have not seen evidence of other plans for HAS 3 and the area that the museum currently occupies although I have no doubt that the council has visions of modern businesses that are able to pay a lot more rent than what would be reasonable for CAHC.


Your last point is exactly why the council want the museum gone. You only have to look through the waffle laden 144 page PDF they have produced regarding the future of the airport to see that they want to rent out the HAS area to better fee paying commercial businesses.

[Jhieminga]

Yeah.... I didn't really want to read all of that.... ;)

Joking aside, I didn't learn of that document until after I typed my previous post. It only confirms what I thought: they are kicking out an established, profitable museum for the promise of more money. An interesting sentence in the council's statement is: "Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay are not responsible for the operation of a private business". Surely a museum providing education and inspiration next to conserving aerospace history is not the same as a private business? How is CAHC not contributing to the region's employment opportunities and providing economic benefits? It is part of the tourism industry and is financially viable and stable. Have they actually asked their constituancy if they want "more value for money" if this means closing down CAHC?

[pmills575]

Is the "RAF to to use civvie airports" a factor? After all the area occupied by the museum is the HAS part of the airport/airfield that would be perfect for deployed/dispersed airframes!

[DH106]

Usual story.... money trumps culture.

(Wow - see there I used the words 'Trump' and 'culture' in the same sentence :})

[GeeRam]

Is the "RAF to to use civvie airports" a factor? After all the area occupied by the museum is the HAS part of the airport/airfield that would be perfect for deployed/dispersed airframes!

No.
The council want to rent out the HAS units to other commercial entities that will be prepared to pay a lot more in rent for them.

[DHfan]

Not that it makes any difference since it was known to be a short term lease anyway, but the Heritage Centre's statement says that they pay commercial rents.

If they do, what difference does it make to the airport or the council who's paying it.

[POBJOY]

The serious question is 'who should subsidise this venture' when we have an ongoing problem in Cornwall with the lack of affordable housing and an increasing number of people who need real support with basic needs. Cornwall is an economic deficient (seasonal) area that has a very low GDP and therefore not bestowed with benefactors that the museum would need to survive. When the Classic AF came her in in 2013 the County Council spent a huge amount of public money providing facilities, and as soon as the 'honeymoon' of grants/subsidy finished they went back to Coventry. It was obvious that there was no business case that supported the facilities being utilised, and the Council are not a charity but are there to provide a service to the community for normal daily needs. The Airport itself has been a difficult operation to manage and still requires a subsidy, however it also employs a substantial local workforce and connects Cornwall for both business and leisure use.
Of course Covid has not helped the situation, but in reality there was never going to be enough 'trade' to cover costs, and the 'close season' is too long to cope with. Even 'Spaceport' will not be the business generator to help cover costs, so unfortunate as it is Cornwall Council are not being responsible 'managers' by letting the situation continue, and indeed would face legal challenge for a misuse of a public facility.
It should also be remembered that the local maritime atmosphere is an absolute killer of airframes, and no amount of money will keep then in the condition the larger ones were in when they 'flew in'.

[Pypard]

Nicely put Pobjoy. The real issue here (as with XH558) is placing large airframes in unrealistic locations. No point lambasting the Council, airport operator or PM (!) for their actions. Those who let their hearts rule their heads need to take responsibility and look for an escape plan. Let's hope that the majority do make it out alive, but I think it's inevitable that the bigger machines (VC-10, One-Eleven; Varsity) will not. But as ever, let us hope for the best and support where we can.

[SWBKCB]

There's some contradiction between POBJOY's comment that the council are subsidising the museum and its a luxury they can't afford and the museums statement

CAHC was created by local people, is privately funded, pays commercial rents to Cornwall Council and is becoming nationally recognised as an aerospace site of excellence, yet Cornwall Council have failed to recognise the cultural & heritage value of our museum.

The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (‘CAHC’) is a unique, popular, growing, tourism, heritage and education centre.
Situated at Cornwall Airport near to the new Spaceport project, it is locally owned and operates with no support from Cornwall Council who, as owners of Cornwall Airport, are its landlords.



Isn't it the airport being subsidised and not the museum? So it seems to be a case of is a bird in the hand worth two in a bush? Are the council letting the lease run down because they have a new prospective tenant which will contribute more to the local economy lined up, in which case you could argue that its a cost worth bearing, or are they getting rid of them to make space in the hope something better will turn up? It's not like they are short of unused space on the airport site

As part of this work, the council is reviewing the use of the land at the airport site to ensure the taxpayer is getting the maximum value for money from it and to increase the economic benefit and professional employment opportunities for Cornwall.

[DHfan]

I'd wondered about that. As I recall, the former RAF St Mawgan is a huge site and I find it hard to believe that every part of it is let out to tenants.
If there isn't a tenant lined up that wants or needs that particular part of the site, why can't the Centre continue if it really is paying a commercial rent.

Conversely, the Heritaqe Centre is being extremely disingenous in publicising it the way they have, when they knew perfectly well it was a short term and potentially finite lease.

[Krystal n chips]

I'd wondered about that. As I recall, the former RAF St Mawgan is a huge site and I find it hard to believe that every part of it is let out to tenants.
If there isn't a tenant lined up that wants or needs that particular part of the site, why can't the Centre continue if it really is paying a commercial rent.

Conversely, the Heritaqe Centre is being extremely disingenous in publicising it the way they have, when they knew perfectly well it was a short term and potentially finite lease.

Maybe, with the above in mind, they thought, that, once established who is going to try and move us...but it does beg the question as to why they decided to acquire the exhibits and develop the site if they knew from the onset the lease would be potentially finite as you say...as always, it make you wonder what may have been going on behind the scenes and not being reported.

[POBJOY]

Newquay Airport is not such a 'huge site' as the former RAF St Mawgan which still operates the former camp area and a substantial parcel of land to the North.
There are several reasons for the museum being very difficult to sustain. It is a visitor attraction that has to compete with hundreds of others in a area that is unable to be sustained by the local (low) population, and has to rely on the summer trade which in reality is only 20% of the year. It is essentially an 'enthusiast' venue, which of course reduces its chance of income and has to try and promote itself in a very competitive market place. When you consider they are in the the same market as a visit to :- Lands End, St Ives, Eden Project, Flambards, National Trust locations, St Michaels Mount, Minac Theatre, plus a shed load of others, then the picture becomes clear. As to the One Eleven and VC10 Tanker, they have a dubious future unless someone decides to go down the 'food venue' route with them, (but where).

[DHfan]

The museum isn't suggesting it's not sustainable.

I can easily believe that it might not be, but there's no mention of it in their statement.

[POBJOY]

The museum isn't suggesting it's not sustainable.

I can easily believe that it might not be, but there's no mention of it in their statement.

If you choose to have an operation based at a Civil Airport (as opposed to a disused airfield) the costs are always going to be against you for obvious reasons. When the CAF honeymoon period finished (that hangar is now a non aviation store) it also lost a large part of its attraction value which was not helped by having to relocate to a less accessible site that also is inside an airport security area. OK if the costs are nil to low, but in todays world where a Council is tasked to cover costs with (any income) storage space on an airfield becomes a valuable asset in difficult times. The actual costs of running a licenced Airport are eye watering, and just the security, fire service, and ATC make it almost impossible to recover the charges from the travelling public, and that is before you have to enough money to pay for the Radar, Runway, and ILS ongoing costs. Cornwall Council (like many others) have to balance the books to provide essential services, and even leisure/fitness centre's were under threat for a while.

[DHfan]

It's only other people, like you, suggesting the museum isn't sustainable.

The Heritage Centre itself seems perfectly happy to continue.
I had forgotten it had had to move.

[Jhieminga]

Maybe, with the above in mind, they thought, that, once established who is going to try and move us...but it does beg the question as to why they decided to acquire the exhibits and develop the site if they knew from the onset the lease would be potentially finite as you say...as always, it make you wonder what may have been going on behind the scenes and not being reported.
Keep in mind that it wasn't CAHC that decided to set up a museum in Cornwall, it was Mike Collet's Classic Air Force. CAHC was set up to salvage what CAF's departure left behind. At that time a short-term lease on a less-than-ideal location was the only thing available, so they took it.

CAHC has been discussing the options with the council for quite some time, but have been running up against a wall there. I think that's why they took this step of involving the public.

[DHfan]

There were no flies on Mike Collet so I've never really understood why he decided it was a good idea to move a good proportion of his aeroplanes, and buy a couple more, to Cornwall for what turned out to be a very short period.
It was no secret that the rent on the huge hangar was colossal, after the initial period of grace, so somebody, presumably, must have done the costings and thought it could work.

[POBJOY]

There were no flies on Mike Collet so I've never really understood why he decided it was a good idea to move a good proportion of his aeroplanes, and buy a couple more, to Cornwall for what turned out to be a very short period.
It was no secret that the rent on the huge hangar was colossal, after the initial period of grace, so somebody, presumably, must have done the costings and thought it could work.

Those of us who work in the area knew only too well that once someone had to pay for facilities it would fail that test.
It is quite obvious that they ignored the basics of 'business' in that you have to have a regular customer base, plus enough 'enthusiast's prepared to spend money.
I spoke to them early in the venture, and explained that the visitor trade in Cornwall was a very fragile beast that required lots of constant advertising to obtain a slice of the action. Without a budget that could compete with well organised other attractions they simply never could break in to the market which has a very short season.
It was no surprise that they departed when they did, and in fact the Council gave a lot of assistance to try to help the remaining operation to survive.
With no substantial core/regular trade the operation was never going to be able to afford the real ongoing costs, and that was well before Covid hit.
However on a brighter note, looking at Google map to the area north of the present location is a substantial parcel of land (INC MOD) part of which gets used for commercial ventures when required (Boardmasters). I note that the old RAF radar site is by a public road and well supplied with areas of hardstanding and is devoid of use. Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope in that direction !!!

[DHfan]

Yet again you're saying they were never going to be able to afford the ongoing costs.

The Heritage Centre doesn't mention that, only you do.

All they are saying is they're being "evicted" from their current location, nothing about overheads, income or running costs.
As it was known to be a short term lease that should have come as no surprise.

[POBJOY]

Yet again you're saying they were never going to be able to afford the ongoing costs.

The Heritage Centre doesn't mention that, only you do.

All they are saying is they're being "evicted" from their current location, nothing about overheads, income or running costs.
As it was known to be a short term lease that should have come as no surprise.

I think you will find they 'could not agree on the terms for another lease' which in effect meant that the potential income would not meet the future costs. Cornwall Council are obliged to operate the Airport for the benefit of the Cornwall ratepayers and reduce its operating costs. This has been a well known scenario brewing for some time and to be fair CC have been trying to assist with the situation (at the same time acting within their remit of being a responsible provider of essential services to the area). CAHC are not being suddenly 'evicted' but like many other operations are unable to fund what they would need to stay where they are. The local airline 'Skybus' which had an engineering 'out base' at the Airport has also had to reduce its costs and moved back to Lands End although they continue to 'route' via NQY for the IOS service. No one is pleased that these situations arise, but in difficult financial times it is a basic fact that the local authority has to operate for the benefit of its ratepayers who are the 'funders' for its location. If you choose to base yourself at a licenced civil airport then that is never going to be an economical option, especially when there is limited trade for most of the year. The original CAF soon hot footed back North when faced with the true costs of being there.

Stop Press CC have just issued a statement re the above situation which rather confirms the above scenario. PP

[DHfan]

So, contrary to their statement, they weren't prepared to pay commercial rents?

[WB627]

So are Cornwall Council likely to fill all the commercial space on the airport? I would doubt it. So it looks to me like no income is better than some income form the museum. Which of course makes perfect sense.... not! And where is the Heritage factor in all this?

There must be somewhere they can go on that site?

[SWBKCB]

Stop Press CC have just issued a statement re the above situation which rather confirms the above scenario. PP

I've not been able to find anything?

[POBJOY]

So, contrary to their statement, they weren't prepared to pay commercial rents?

Thats about it, which is why the CAF departed when faced with reality. The 'museum' aspect was given much assistance to help them establish themselves, but they were in a poor location for visitor attendance, and also still inside the Airport security zone. Cornwall simply does not have enough local population to support such ventures, and the very short visitor season is well over supplied with venues to attend. I am a frequent critic of the Council over various matters, but in this case they were as helpful as they could have been.

[POBJOY]

I've not been able to find anything?

This may take a few days to get out in the normal public domain.

[POBJOY]

There must be somewhere they can go on that site?[/QUOTE]

As alluded in an earlier post there is a vast amount of land adjoining the Civil Airport and not in its security zone that was part of the original Trebelsue RAF site and latterly a NATO operation. I notice that the original RAF Radar tower (plus buildings) are situated close to a public road and near land used by Boardmasters when required. I suspect the MOD are still the owners and the area even still has its original 'crash gate'. If CAHC are serious about their operation, then it must be worthwhile a consideration rather than closing !!!!

[Jhieminga]

A quote from the CAHC's Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/CornwallAHC/) page:
What the Council have not stated in there formal response is that they have failed to provide any detailed feedback on the 9 proposals that CAHC submitted 10 months ago. In fact, they have not responded to any communication until recently.
Also, not one decision maker from the airport or the council have ever visited our site to try and understand what facility we provide to our visitors.
We need just 1% of the total area of the airport estate to operate and await any constructive communication from the council and airport management.
Posted on this same page just this morning:
Please sign & share our petition link.
https://chng.it/DRwW5Lj65M
We remain hopeful that Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay will finally allow us to discuss our relocation proposals in detail, 11 months after we submitted them. Our aim is to find only 6 acres on the 850 acre airport estate which will allow us to continue our operation without disrupting airfield operations.

[DHfan]

I should be fairly close to St Mawgan in the next few weeks so I'll make a point of visiting, having not been there since it first opened, briefly, as Air Atlantique.

So much for my good intentions...
I'll be passing on my way to and from Penzance this Saturday and the following one.
They're closed Fridays and Saturdays.

I appreciate they are change-over days for many holiday makers so visitors may be thin on the ground, but I would have thought some income was better than none.

[treadigraph]

Give my love to PZ!

[Jhieminga]

Lots of work still to do, but this offers a potential solution to the problem CAHC is facing: https://www.voicenewspapers.co.uk/beleaguered-aviation-museum-facing-eviction-is-set-for-lift-off-at-new-site-584361

[India Four Two]

So the council that is kicking them out is the one they have to apply to for planning permission for the new location! That's a bit worrying.