Air France crew fighting

[markkal]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/two-air-france-pilots-suspended-for-mid-air-fight

https://www.lepoint.fr/insolite/air-france-deux-pilotes-en-viennent-aux-mains-en-plein-vol-27-08-2022-2487514_48.php

Any update about what happened ?
Le Point magazine indicates it was a flight from Paris to Geneva, in which in the cockpit one crew member punched the other, later he said he just slapped him, and the two grabbed each other in the neck and started a brawl. Screams coming from the deck alerted the cabin crew. This happened during the initial climb. No other info.

French media refers to a report published from French BEA, but I did not find anything in their site:

https://bea.aero/en/

[zambonidriver]

I understand the article refers to a larger investigation from BEA about multiple incidents. Could not find the source either.

[Skywards747]

Two Air France pilots were suspended after coming to blows in the cockpit of an Airbus jetliner during a flight between Geneva and Paris, the latest safety issue to plague the airline. In the June incident, a dispute between the pilot and co-pilot turned physical shortly after takeoff as the plane gained altitude, with the men taking each other by the collars after one possibly hit or slapped the other, according to the newspaper report. Cabin personnel heard noise in the cockpit, intervened and one member spent the rest of the flight in the flight deck, La Tribune said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-27/air-france-pilots-suspended-after-in-flight-cockpit-brawl

For a western European flag carrier, Air France seems to be having too many safety and human related issues.

[A320LGW]

Two Air France pilots were suspended after coming to blows in the cockpit of an Airbus jetliner during a flight between Geneva and Paris, the latest safety issue to plague the airline. In the June incident, a dispute between the pilot and co-pilot turned physical shortly after takeoff as the plane gained altitude, with the men taking each other by the collars after one possibly hit or slapped the other, according to the newspaper report. Cabin personnel heard noise in the cockpit, intervened and one member spent the rest of the flight in the flight deck, La Tribune said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-27/air-france-pilots-suspended-after-in-flight-cockpit-brawl

For a western European flag carrier, Air France seems to be having too many safety and human related issues.

Far too many and this is nothing new either, its been going on for decades with them. Is it arrogance? They are fairly worshipped by the general population there.

[markkal]

The flight back from Geneva to Paris must have been epic in the cockpit, unless they rushed a replacement crew.
Knowing Air France and their very powerful unions, the crew will be suspended and then reinstated without any loss of salary, never to be allowed to fly together again.
BEA should be really embarassed, hence the lack of information. It would be interesting to hear the cockpit communications....Circulez, il n'y a rien a voir .. as the french say...

[Old Carthusian]

I had thought that Air France had addressed their pilot culture issues but it seems that the problem is much more insidious. They've already had one fatal accident because of this and really need to get a grip otherwise there will be more.

[megan]

Perhaps the CRM "Captain, you must listen" didn't quite get the job done. :p

[DaveReidUK]

A "violent argument" in the cockpit may have led to Britain's deadliest air accident of all time.

Since this event took place about an hour-and-a-half before take-off ...

Yet again, the Daily Mirror demonstrates its incisive grasp of the aviation world.

[skiver]

I understand the article refers to a larger investigation from BEA about multiple incidents. Could not find the source either.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/29/two-air-france-pilots-suspended-after-fight-in-cockpit-prompts-cabin-crew-to-intervene

News of the fight emerged after France’s air investigation agency, BEA, issued a report on Wednesday saying that some Air France pilots lack rigour in respecting procedures during safety incidents.

I’m a committed Francophile but I won’t let any of my family fly with Air France… you don’t have to dig deep to find an almost continuous list of incidents.

[zambonidriver]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/29/two-air-france-pilots-suspended-after-fight-in-cockpit-prompts-cabin-crew-to-intervene


By source I meant the report the Guardian and other newspaper based their article on...

First order of action in such matters.

[FullWings]

Well, at least they didn’t wrestle with each other through the controls, like the AF 777 crew going into Paris.

I think this kind of incident could have happened anywhere with people of any nationality. At the same time, AF give the impression that they don’t learn from their mistakes (or think they can’t make them) as the training feedback loop appears not to be present. Most other European majors have moved on to things like ATQP, LOE, EBT, etc. and it makes you wonder if this is true at AF? I have serious reservations about flying with them.

[DaveReidUK]

I understand the article refers to a larger investigation from BEA about multiple incidents. Could not find the source either.

The fuel leak incident report is on the BEA website, findable with the search facility.

I haven't seen anything that refers to the June fisticuffs event being the subject of a BEA investigation.

[mikegss]

I thought cabin crew could not access the flight deck once door was closed?

[sitigeltfel]

According to this press report the co-pilot "refused to follow instructions".

https://www.laprovence.com/actu/en-direct/6881840/deux-pilotes-dair-france-suspendus-apres-une-altercation-dans-le-cockpit.html

[olster]

I do not think that this could have happened at any airline. Air France has an increasingly long list of incidents and one at least in recent years terrible accident where human factors played a large role. The lack of personal discipline in this instance is appalling. Try flying for one of the well known expatriate airlines particularly the much vilified (quite reasonably) Middle Eastern variety and having a mid air punch up: you will be out of the door in a tres rapide fashion. Possibly our pilot comrades in AF are a little too over indulged and precious and rampant egoism is tolerated. This is disturbing and it would appear that a little humility combined with a CRM reset is required within la belle France national carrier.

[Tartiflette Fan]

They are fairly worshipped by the general population there.

I don't see from my view of the French landscape/newscape that pilots are viewed any differently from the way they are in the UK i.e. nothing exceptional.

[Right20deg]

I do not think that this could have happened at any airline. Air France has an increasingly long list of incidents and one at least in recent years terrible accident where human factors played a large role. The lack of personal discipline in this instance is appalling. Try flying for one of the well known expatriate airlines particularly the much vilified ( quite reasonably) Middle Eastern variety and having a mid air punch up: you will be out of the door in a tres rapide fashion. Possibly our pilot comrades in AF are a little too over indulged and precious and rampant egoism is tolerated. This is disturbing and it would appear that a little humility combined with a CRM reset is required within la belle France national carrier.
___________________

I completely agree with your points. Things have not changed over many years. Their arrogant behaviour witnessed by UK crews laying over in the far east.... was unbelievable. When some came to us to be trained or examined there was always the issue of attitude to be resolved.
And it was not.

[Michael S]

I know of a few ATOs which are refusing to train French students due to past experiences with their attitudes.
Something must be in the water.

[midnight cruiser]

Anyone who has worked with French pilots for years would not be surprised. Not all of them by any means ... but far too many. Most alarmingly, the preening arrogance switches to a complete lack of resilience when the proverbial hits the rotatables. We had a chap, utter PITA, until things went wrong, then he would burst into tears every time!! (the French Navy and air force pilots were a delight through, so it can be done).

[Atlantic Explorer]

Unbelievable! Oh well, that’s them definitely on my no fly list now. You would expect behaviour and Professionalism like this in the Congo or such like, but a European Flag carrier?!!

[steamchicken]

This seems to be the BEA report mentioned:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=https://bea.aero/fileadmin/user_upload/F-GZCJ-VF.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjM0t2cxOz5AhWPS8AKHTWDCMUQFnoECAQQAg&usg=AOvVaw2rwjHxYuCUrwuzvohRqM1z

It does tell AF off for having too many stupid incidents (paraphrase) but it doesn't mention fisticuffs or a Geneva-Paris flight

[ericferret]

Perhaps the CRM "Captain, you must listen" didn't quite get the job done. :p

What he actually said translated was,

"Listen very carefully I shall say this only once"

[NoelEvans]

The fuel leak incident report is on the BEA website, findable with the search facility.

...

About an hour after I had read out the Flight Global report on the fuel leak incident to my wife, she called to me saying "You need to read the latest news" -- it was about the fisticuffs. There are just too many incidents.

I will not fly on Air France again. (The last time was because 'work' booked it, but that will not happen again.)

[JeanKhul]

The same did happen inside a 777 cockpit of Emirates, 5 or 6 years ago (if we name AF, why not EK ?) But thanks to the very secretive way of dealing with incidents in that particular airline, nobody heard too much about it in the rest of the world. As far as I remember, it was linked to a woman story. A woman related to both of them.

[Lookleft]

Has also happened in a QF cockpit in Dallas but fortunately pre-departure.

[EDLB]

Does anyone know what was the dispute about? Climb has usually not the highest workload, so I wonder what they were arguing about. Woman story and French pilots would fill the stereotype.

[midnight cruiser]

​They've already had one fatal accident because of this and really need to get a grip otherwise there will be more.​​​​​​. Moreover, it is clear to even a casual observer that air France have been very lucky that most of their continuous string of serious incidents have averted fatalities by blind luck, the pilots abdicating responsibility; declaring "eh bien, l'avion, c'est fou".

[Consol]

Has also happened in a QF cockpit in Dallas but fortunately pre-departure.
...and in the national airline of a small country to the north of France too I understand.

[fdr]

AF may be overrepresented, but, those are humans stuck in the rabbit hutch, dealing with their issues, and nationally, the French are quite forward in presenting the merits of their views. There are situations that is desirable, others not so much. The whole story would be interesting. The unfortunate issue is that at the point that the matter has degraded to this extent, the whole operation has been and is continued to be compromised, and that ultimately is a responsibility for the PIC in management of the complete crew, warts n' all. Either side may start it, either side can escalate it, but the one person that has to recover the situation is the PIC. Sucks.

As to "national traits", one of the best CRM implementers I have had the pleasure to work with was from France, not a big sample lot, one of the 3 best helicopter instructors I have ever worked with was a simple french farm boy, (the other 2 chopper guys were both JSDF naval helicopter pilots). I've kicked a pilot off a flight deck in the dark past, replaced him with a F/E, the clown having decided to try a reckless trick that was not briefed, trained, called for or comprehended by the twit, and done while I was in the back of the plane, resulting in 4 injuries, including myself. Stupidity is not limited to race, language or religion.

447, while incorporating MMI factors, was at its root cause a failure of training and comprehension, and a pilot that was placed into a situation that defeated his understanding, leading to irrational but understandable inputs under a fearful existential situation. If there is a time for a tiff on the cockpit, that is one where it may have been reasonable.

[Flying.Coyote]

It's just pathetic you "guys" only underline the nationality of the pilots but not the gender and that you root a CRM incident to the supposed nationality of those involved. Pprune at its best !

[ATC Watcher]

Indeed Flying Coyote, always the same good old basic French bashing coming back , which is now left on my the mods as it raises traffic (and revenue ). Was a bit different when the site was moderated by its founder, Danny , but we have to accept it is a commercial site now and endure this.,. That said, Mods, when I see posts like this one here :
Unbelievable! Oh well, that’s them definitely on my no fly list now. You would expect behavior and Professionalism like this in the Congo or such like, but a European Flag carrier?!!
It indicate clearly that the poster is not a Professional pilot and making a pure racist remark, which is not really acceptable in todays 'world.

[midnight cruiser]

Are you trying to claim there's no causational correlation between certain nations and incident/accident rates?

If so, why does the EU ban eg DRC, Afghanistan, Nepal, Eritrean, Sierra Leone, Libyan airlines - is that racist, are their airlines just unlucky?
​​​​​​
Korean had a similarly excessive incident/accident rate with suspected cultural elements, they recognised it, and addressed it. Time for Air France to do the same... Failing that, a ban from eu skies - mustn't be racist - airline of a white Western nation must follow the same rules!...

[A320LGW]

I don't see from my view of the French landscape/newscape that pilots are viewed any differently from the way they are in the UK i.e. nothing exceptional.
Pilots in general, no, Air France and its pilots though? I have always noticed something very different.

[Jet Jockey A4]

I find this hard to believe but there is another report out there claiming an Air France crew that was waiting to takeoff with an Airbus 350 was cleared to position and then cleared for takeoff and added takeoff power only to realize that one of its engines was still shutdown... If true then this incredible even for Air France!

Unfortunately you must subscribe to read the article.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/air-france-bagarre-dans-un-cockpit-allumage-oublie-d-un-moteur-au-decollage-questions-sur-la-securite-des-vols-928608.html

[ehwatezedoing]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1536x645/8ef8cab4_d3bd_4a69_80e1_8b97d64b1510_d08f276a02c867e23e75aa3 ab125b47a0b9fa7a7.jpeg

For those who think it only happen with a certain European Carrier :p

[FlightDetent]

Fairly recent. Is this what the college requirement is all about? I mean, the report is typed rather gracefully. :E

My home place had a fight decades ago about jumpseat priority for family members, F/O's wife against CA's girlfriend. Being the gentlemen they were, the boys fought each other on their significant other's behalf.

Minor lacerations due contact with cockpit environment, pilot AOGed and flight cancelled due lack of immediate backup. Bye bye 5 days Dubai layover.

[ATC Watcher]

Are you trying to claim there's no causational correlation between certain nations and incident/accident rates?
........., a ban from eu skies - mustn't be racist - airline of a white Western nation must follow the same rules!...
This is not the way it works, a nation is not banned, the lack of a regulator enforcing rules is what causes the airlines of that nation to be banned. Nothing to do with its people. The French bashing here on this site is on "The French" and their supposed characteristics making them unfit in some eyes. The earlier quote of : You would expect behavior and Professionalism like this in the Congo or such like,", is indeed a racist remark whatever you look at it.

Now here we agree is that Air France needs to seriously change its culture. AF is still an airline where some senior captains can basically do whatever they want without any fear of consequences. In the aftermath of AF447 a long list of "deviations from the norm "were identified and were supposed ( and promised by management) to be addressed. It went well for a while, now this BEA report shows us that the old ways are back. There is much more on this report that this fight in the cockpit. that are far more worrying from a safety point of view. And again I agree with you that perhaps a "Korean solution " is needed before AF makes the headlines again with more drastic consequences. Maybe that is also what the BEA is trying to say with this report.

[DaveReidUK]

For those who think it only happen with a certain European Carrier

You might want to extend the de-identification to include the date/route/fleet number. :O

[ehwatezedoing]

You might want to extend the de-identification to include the date/route/fleet number. :O
It's all free to see on social medias, I only blacked out a few things (Not enough obviously :O ) So I won't be banned here.

[Airone2977]

This is not the way it works, a nation is not banned, the lack of a regulator enforcing rules is what causes the airlines of that nation to be banned. Nothing to do with its people. The French bashing here on this site is on "The French" and their supposed characteristics making them unfit in some eyes. The earlier quote of : You would expect behavior and Professionalism like this in the Congo or such like,", is indeed a racist remark whatever you look at it.

Now here we agree is that Air France needs to seriously change its culture. AF is still an airline where some senior captains can basically do whatever they want without any fear of consequences. In the aftermath of AF447 a long list of "deviations from the norm "were identified and were supposed ( and promised by management) to be addressed. It went well for a while, now this BEA report shows us that the old ways are back. There is much more on this report that this fight in the cockpit. that are far more worrying from a safety point of view. And again I agree with you that perhaps a "Korean solution " is needed before AF makes the headlines again with more drastic consequences. Maybe that is also what the BEA is trying to say with this report.

I know it is rumour at this point but I know that the BEA safety study report was sent to the press by one of the pilot union, a minor one. Why they did it ? That's the real question.

[slast]

For anyone wanting to look into the issue of "cultural influences" on airline safety I posted a lengthy discussion on my PiCMA site. I'd be interested in hearing comments on what I say there.
"Culture" - pilots, national and airline. | PicMA (http://picma.info/?q=content/culture-pilots-national-and-airline)

[Fonsini]

Pretty obvious which Delta flight that is - bigger masking blocks ?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Indeed Flying Coyote, always the same good old basic French bashing coming back , which is now left on my the mods as it raises traffic (and revenue ). Was a bit different when the site was moderated by its founder, Danny , but we have to accept it is a commercial site now and endure this.,. That said, Mods, when I see posts like this one here :
It indicate clearly that the poster is not a Professional pilot and making a pure racist remark, which is not really acceptable in todays 'world.

Oh dear ATC, you’ve not done very well with that post have you?! Firstly, I am a Professional pilot and secondly, how on earth can you come up with that being a racist remark? I’ve actually spent a considerable time out there working in the industry hence my reference to the Congo. Nothing racist about a country having very poor standards and Professionalism both on and off the flight deck.

Maybe it’s time you frequented another forum if it’s really as bad as you say it is or go and grab another beer and chill!

[Sailvi767]

Pretty obvious which Delta flight that is - bigger masking blocks ?

It’s a correct ship number for a Delta flight. Delta however never conducts new hire training with a LCA on the jumpseat. New hires are added to the LCA’s line and he occupies a control seat. Seems odd unless the CA was receiving a line check and the new hire had already completed all training and was on a regular trip.

[FlightDetent]

Might explain the anxiety of the F/O to get the call perfectly right on all occasions. Also possibly a hoax.

[Fonsini]

It’s a correct ship number for a Delta flight. Delta however never conducts new hire training with a LCA on the jumpseat. New hires are added to the LCA’s line and he occupies a control seat. Seems odd unless the CA was receiving a line check and the new hire had already completed all training and was on a regular trip.

Final LCA check ride sign-off on a scheduled service perhaps ? If so I’m guessing that the FO inviting the CA to consume a bag of phalluses resulted in a “less than satisfactory” rating ??

[fab777]

Pilots in general, no, Air France and its pilots though? I have always noticed something very different.

mostly seen by French people as « overpaid glorified bus drivers, always on strike ». Nothing even close to worshipping…

[inbalance]

https://youtu.be/NRy3fCCR0Yg

[steamchicken]

I find this hard to believe but there is another report out there claiming an Air France crew that was waiting to takeoff with an Airbus 350 was cleared to position and then cleared for takeoff and added takeoff power only to realize that one of its engines was still shutdown... If true then this incredible even for Air France!

Unfortunately you must subscribe to read the article.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/air-france-bagarre-dans-un-cockpit-allumage-oublie-d-un-moteur-au-decollage-questions-sur-la-securite-des-vols-928608.html

This link should give you the text: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1JaIX1CLzCQJ:https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/air-france-bagarre-dans-un-cockpit-allumage-oublie-d-un-moteur-au-decollage-questions-sur-la-securite-des-vols-928608.html&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1&vwsrc=0

[AN2 Driver]

I’m a committed Francophile but I won’t let any of my family fly with Air France… you don’t have to dig deep to find an almost continuous list of incidents.

Jup, good decision. I've made that long ago and fully agree with you.

[Nil by mouth]

Weren't AF pilots allowed a red wine allowance some years back, similar to the British navy's rum ration?

[fdr]

For anyone wanting to look into the issue of "cultural influences" on airline safety I posted a lengthy discussion on my PiCMA site. I'd be interested in hearing comments on what I say there.
"Culture" - pilots, national and airline. | PicMA (http://picma.info/?q=content/culture-pilots-national-and-airline)

Gert Hofsteade's "Cultures Consequences" works are an interesting read on the subject. His study gives some hints as to what may be interesting in a cohort, however, there are some hard truths in that as well; on occasions, what may be seen as a desirable trait turns up to make life miserable.

A close look into our own glass houses is worthwhile pre-launch of stones and other objects. On occasions the events within a culturally disctinct group doesn't turn out as expected, people is people.

[slast]

FDR, I guess you saw my brief references to Hofstede's work then? I don't have the originals - I just checked and as the one you mention is £100 probably won't in the near future unfortunately. If you have any comments (especially in the light of 1st sentence, 2nd paragraph) please PM me. Or were you referring to the tone of a few of the other posts?

[crjo]

I had thought that Air France had addressed their pilot culture issues but it seems that the problem is much more insidious. They've already had one fatal accident because of this and really need to get a grip otherwise there will be more.

AF never had a fatal accident because of Pilot Culture issues. Where do you get that nonsense from ?!

[crjo]

Get your facts straight.
AF actually pioneered ATQP and now EBT in Europe…

[Old Carthusian]

AF never had a fatal accident because of Pilot Culture issues. Where do you get that nonsense from ?!
AF447

[Auxtank]

AF447

I would not say that was a cultural issue but rather gross incompetence by all in the cockpit.

Flight 548 had culture as major causal factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548

[ATC Watcher]

I would not say that was a cultural issue but rather gross incompetence by all in the cockpit.

Flight 548 had culture as major causal factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
A fascinating read, I had forgotten that one, thanks for the link Auxtank , put things back into perspective and shows to how far we have advanced since that time..
But AF also had a cultural problem , identified and attempted to be corrected may times. After AF447 athings did change , except for the 5 or 10% at the top that still think that their judgements are better that the SOPs , and, for instance, a management that (still apparently) supports modifying the Manufacturers Flight manuals possibly under the pressure of those same 5-10%.
The French BEA was for many years subject to pressures from the "gang of 3 " ( DGAC, AF and Airbus) in minimizing incidents where they were involved , and what has changed recently in their increased independence and willingness to publish critical reports , that sometimes get media attention . Will it change things ? No sure, cultural changes takes generations to take effect,. The British and the US started to address this earlier and are far better at this , but recent incidents and accidents show that no-one is immune to a bad culture ..

[fab777]

Weren't AF pilots allowed a red wine allowance some years back, similar to the British navy's rum ration?

yes, in 1952.

[Old Carthusian]

AF447 was very much a culturally related accident. Yes, certainly incompetence played it's part but only because the prevailing pilot culture in Air France had allowed it to develop to such a significant degree. Air France are the latest in a line of airlines which have suffered from pilot culture becoming toxic and dangerous. The phenomenon can be first identified with Pan Am - the 'Clipper Skipper'. Other airlines that have been affected have been Korean Airlines (a culture based on seniority and deference to ex-military captains) and China Airlines. In all cases this has led to fatal accidents and has been characterized by an arrogance and disregard of sensible procedure and professionalism. A further significant element is the willingness to tolerate and protect individuals who have deficient skillsets because they fit in with the toxic culture. Korean and China Airlines seem to have taken steps to rectify the situation but Pan Am never did and Air France seem to be struggling to find solutions.
A note on culture - it is not just perceived national characteristics but how individuals are expected to act and behave in a specific group environment. It can be influenced by many factors and can be either positive, neutral or destructive.

[Boeingdriver999]

I would say that it will take blood on their hands to change the culture but after AF4590 (Concorde crash), AF358 (A340 crash) and AF447 (A330 crash) the culture appears to be the same or worse - A320 crew in fisticuffs & perfectly serviceable 777 handling incident in recent years. And these are only the incidents that make it out of the internal AF system, get investigated by BEA and THEN get publicised.

As an aside; I think it's logical and reasonable to assess culture and rank individual cultures objectively against others. A roundabout way of supporting that argument is the common theme that multiculturalism is a good thing because it allows positive aspects from one culture to augment or replace aspects of the other culture. If all cultures were equally positive/negative then multiculturalism would be a neutral aspect of migration. And if there are positives then there must be negatives. These can be identified, measured and ranked accordingly.

[Ancient Observer]

Not an Aviation thing, but in the Big UK based, Global, Corporate that I used to work in, we taught Hofstede and Trompenaars across the world. Cultural stuff was v v important.

(Not only to explain what us stupid Brits were up to)

[Leo45]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132088/Flybe-pilots-sacked-called-bitch-mid-flight-bust-up.html

[Right20deg]

Not an Aviation thing, but in the Big UK based, Global, Corporate that I used to work in, we taught Hofstede and Trompenaars across the world. Cultural stuff was v v important.

(Not only to explain what us stupid Brits were up to)
That is good to hear. Cross cultural working is taught in many UK airlines and at least one major middle east carrier. "When cultures collide"... was the bible. James Reason and Bob Helmreich were the masters of Crew Resource Management. Saves lives.

[Fly3]

On joining a major Far East airline I had to attend a two day "Cross Cultural Awareness Course". It was conducted by a professor from a prestigious local university, who was also an expat, and there were several different nationalities making up the class. What was notable though was that there were no "locals" there which showed that the "awareness" was only going to be applied one way!

[Right20deg]

On joining a major Far East airline I had to attend a two day "Cross Cultural Awareness Course". It was conducted by a professor from a prestigious local university, who was also an expat, and there were several different nationalities making up the class. What was notable though was that there were no "locals" there which showed that the "awareness" was only going to be applied one way!
You are absolutely correct and unfortunately things are not changing. Fear is the main tool.