EE Lightning Aircrew training course notes

[ScottBouch]

Hi all,

I am trying to understand more about the EE Lightning as I am (slowly) putting together a Lightning T5 flight simulator project using as much real hardware as possible to make the experience as realistic as possible.

I have a fairly good handle on the technical side thanks to volunteering for years at Cranfield on T5's XS452 and XS458 and having access to some APs and some BAE technical course notes. So I understand how systems are wired and mechanically connected, but it's the "how to use them" that's lacking.

I am lacking information such as how to use the Flight Control System on its own and in conjunction with TACAN, AI23, and Data Link when fitted. How to operate the AI23, the IFF, etc.., How Data Link was used when fitted in the early days... Does anyone out there still have copies of aircrew course notes they would be willing to donate, copy or scan?

PS: This is a free, open-source flight simulator package (flightgear), and any programming work I do on the Lightning software model is released for anyone to use for free, ie: I'm making no profit out of this, it's purely for fun to try to accurately model the aircraft for the best simulated experience.

Many thanks, Scott.

[NutLoose]

Any help?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_ssn=flightwaypublishing&store_cat=0&store_name=flightwaypublications&_oac=1&_nkw=lightning (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403458664553?hash=item5df002a869:g:mbkAAOSwKxpiAo1N&amdata=e nc%3AAQAHAAAAsJoXCoKcQA1du4IjxBj2tNVnLIqx9h5Ip98iX%2FRtpjn1K Jr6U4L8yobO7YGeRkaFXmnRwLfFWGnEpfAPphSMOTpCcpnLGF9ue12ulOXh7 4TnbpXNG15n%2BwMBkKzTwMC8ZDeaEzhfcy4%2Flxeprzjmr2dzDejASc8Kr AWWq%2B1a%2Fg4XvrgcUKqop6JL1T%2Bzgt%2BuEXIAMHu6IX75HFyGV%2FV 6Em%2FhJoKxUluSh8RONHU4TMcr%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5z5razaYA)

[Jhieminga]

More options and other manuals about the Lightning here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_ssn=ronchan_1949&store_cat=0&store_name=ronsaviationshop&_oac=1&_nkw=lightning

[ScottBouch]

Thanks guys, those are the manuals I already have, along with the Aircrew Manual for the F3, T5 and F6, however, they state where the controls are, and where the indicators are for a given system, but contain nothing about how to use them. This is what prompted me to ask for course notes from pilot training courses.

I have some BAE course notes for ground servicing, and these often contain information missed in the Vol1 APs, I hope it's the same for aircrew training notes, if I can find some/any.

I have figured out the operation of some of the equipment by reverse engineering, but to be able to refer to some official sources would be best. as then I will know if I'm on the right track or not.

If anyone reading this knows any ex-Lightning pilots, please could you ask if they are willing to help this project out...

Cheers, Scott.

[ORAC]

The datalink was never used operationally, so I doubt it’s in any pilot notes.

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/205755-anyone-remember-lightning-datalink.html

[ScottBouch]

The datalink was never used operationally, so I doubt it’s in any pilot notes.

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/205755-anyone-remember-lightning-datalink.html

Thanks for that pointer - I was going to do another thread asking about Data Link. Some of those stories written there are familiar with stories I learned from ex-RAF guys who would come to see and help out on the Lightnings at Cranfield; such as using the Signal Data Converter space in the Elephants Ear panel for kit bags - this is something I have seen evidence of as I have repaired some of the RT wiring in this area, as it would get snagged on bags and became worn out. Also heard about the space being used for cigarettes and alcohol too!

I have a Lightning strip Air Speed Indicator, which had a space in the lower left corner for a Data Link "Command" speed/mach counter, which is removed. Interestingly though, inside there are witness marks of the screws that would have held the command counter in pace once upon a time.

One mistake in the referenced thread: the PTR-175 radio T/R unit did not have the Data Link facility, the internal module for Data Link was replaced with the additional Guard receiver module in the PTR-175 (for the control unit mode T/R+G). The radio equipped for Data Link was designated the PTR-177, this had no Guard receiver module as the space was occupied by the Data Link module. I've never seen a PTR-177, but many PTR-175's! (The thread also mentioned the UHF only ARC-52, I don't know if this could work with Data Link, as the control panels for the ARC-52 has no DL mode, but the later control unit, the C1607/4 with DL mode can also be used with an ARC-52... so that's out for debate.)


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/690x452/ptr_175_control_unit_01_ad33e35a356165c57c73841289e9ee5f8ff1 a8b5.jpg
C1607/4 Control Unit

The above C1607/4 control panel offered modes for T/R+G and DL: it was one-size-fits-all, to be used with either radio, but there is a hidden switch round the back that has to be set to G or DL depending on the system it's installed with (Guard receiver module or Data Link module).


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/690x601/arc_52_control_unit_01_fe31edd717f6e3e50a2a479ca71fd3a71a9d6 28f.jpg
C1607/2/ARC 52 Control Unit - no DL mode



Cheers, Scott.

[ScottBouch]

Bump!

Does anyone know anyone who may have aircrew course notes?

I'm slowly finding a lot of answers to my questions on the aircraft systems, but feel that aircrew training notes would really help to express/explain the systems from a point of view of the pilot rather than the engineer.

I have the aircrew manual for the F3, T5 and F6, which briefly skims over some topics I was hoping to find more detail on. I have found the same with the Vol.1 APs; where they are lacking, the Warton airframe course notes make up for them, and fill in the blanks.

Cheers, Scott.

[NutLoose]

This guy is selling course notes for a ridiculous price, but not the T5 and probably engineering ones.

https://www.ebay.com/str/vintagecollectablesco?_pgn=1

[ScottBouch]

This guy is selling course notes for a ridiculous price, but not the T5 and probably engineering ones.

https://www.ebay.com/str/vintagecollectablesco?_pgn=1

indeed, loony prices, some ebay sellers are just chancers.

Those are the servicing training notes for the F1A and F3. I have some like this scanned for the F3 and Saudi F53. They are very good from a systems engineeting point of view, but its more the operational/flying point of view i am looking for.

Was ideally hoping to find an ex-Lightning pilot who still has his training notes.

Cheers, Scott

[132bod]

Hi Scott,

Have you spoken to https://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/ about your simulator? They have a F3 (I think) cockpit linked to computer. Was a hoot when I "flew" it & surprisingly familiar to my Tornado F3 memory as groundcrew.

[Tarnished]

Ex-Lightning pilot, reporting for duty.

It will involve a bit of climbing and shuffling boxes, but I think I have some notes still.

Happy to chat, message me and I will have a look

C

[India Four Two]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/690x452/ptr_175_control_unit_01_ad33e35a356165c57c73841289e9ee5f8ff1 a8b5.jpg


Slight thread drift, but what was Channel M?

[Yellow Sun]

Slight thread drift, but what was Channel M?

It was the position for Manual selection in the frequency windows at the top.

YS

[CharlieJuliet]

Hi Scott,
I went through the OCU in 65 - 66 and don't recall any extra manuals (I am sure we got the odd precis - didn't keep any - but nothing in book form). The only info was that in the then Pilots Notes (now Aircrew Manual). I think systems operation was taught in ground school, in the sim and on the aircraft. I might be able to answer some of your questions from memory. During my time data link was not available although the instruments had the markers for it (as you saw on the ASI), and I doubt data link ever came into use with the RAF.

[Mach2]

Hi Scott,
I went through the OCU in 68-69, and like Charlie Juliet I don't recall any hard-copy handouts while going through. For many years (until the Better Half insisted that I got rid of them) I still had the handouts from AFT at Valley and the Pre-Lightning course at Chivenor, so I'm sure I would have kept them if there had been any.

[happydolphins]

More options and other manuals about the Lightning at ebay

[ScottBouch]

Hi All,

Sorry I had missed the last responses to this thread, nearly a year late!

Shame the consensus is that there was very little in the way of course notes for pilots. I was hoping for something like the Warton airframe / engine course notes, which are actually in areas superior to the Vol1 manuals regarding level of detail and explanations.

But if anyone has any manuals or notes tucked away I will be interested. Crying shame to hear about some being thrown out over the years, but guess it's what was the best move at the time.

I will PM Tarnished as it sounded like there may be some info lurking in his loft!

Cheers, Scott.

[ScottBouch]

I have some questions regarding navigation... can anyone provide any dialogue about using the HDG selector knob and pointer on the Navigation display unit?

With AP (auto pilot) selected, could the HDG knob be used to set the heading flown by the FCS? Likewise if FD was selected, would the Flight Director bead position indicate deviation from the heading set?

See info found so far: https://www.scottbouch.com/mcfs/lightningt5t55/6td-3650-navigation-display-mk1-type-c.htm
(Note, one image contains an error - when I photographed the TACAN display I didn't align the heading pointer with the TACAN heading. Need to re-photograph.)

Also regarding navigation in the Lightning:

- generally, would any in-flight map reading be carried out?
- would navigation generally be done by a series of planned TACAN offsets (waypoints) written on the knee board?
- how much direction would be taken from ground radar or GCI?

Regarding the FCS (Flight Control System), does anyone have information on the modes of the flight control system, and how it was to be used in conjunction with TACAN, ILS/VP, and the little stick?

Cheers, Scott

[nipva]

Hi Scott,
Having just seen this thread I checked my 'archives' and have found, to my surprise, my hand-written ground school notes from my time at the OCU (68/69). They cover the electrical & fuel systems together with some guides on intercept techniques/profiles Do PM me if interested.

[ScottBouch]

Hi Scott,
Having just seen this thread I checked my 'archives' and have found, to my surprise, my hand-written ground school notes from my time at the OCU (68/69). They cover the electrical & fuel systems together with some guides on intercept techniques/profiles Do PM me if interested.

PM sent, many thanks!!