Laker Airways IT and charter

[WHBM]

We've had discussions about various onetime holiday airlines, but anything Laker seems to only discuss Skytrain. However they were much more than that, being a pioneer One-Eleven IT operator, plus 707s and, later DC-10s, used on Mediterranean flights, transatlantic ABCs before Skytrain, and such like. They bought up tour operators, and I think had a half-share in Gatwick Handling. Right at the beginning they had a couple of Bristol Britannia 100s, which seem to have been hardly used, and even bought the prototype VC-10, which I don't think was ever painted or operated under their own name, seemingly always leased out (but was it with Laker crews ?).

Any recollections ? Anyone ever get a flight on the A300 ?

[ATNotts]

rog747 is really your encyclopedia for this but in the interim I recall that Laker ITs were mainly flown for their associated tour operators Arrowsmith from MAN and possibly LPL, and Lord Bros from LGW.

The Britannias were before my time I am afraid.

[dixi188]

I was at BCAL when Laker went bust. It cost me a promotion to Inspector/Supervisor as the company took on quite a few well qualified ex Laker licensed engineers who filled the vacancies.
We (BCAL engineers) did care and maintenance on the grounded Laker fleet. The DC-10-30s and A300s went very quickly, but the DC10-10s and BAC1-11s hung around for about 6 months before becoming the new BCAL Charter fleet.
The A300s came back to BCAL to be re-furbished for Air Jamaica. I did a little work in the cabin of one.
The 2 Boeing 707s were flown to Lasham and scrapped.
Gatwick Handling was started by Dan-Air and Laker, 50/50 ownership.

[Mr Mac]

WHBM
As a teenager I got an extended cockpit visit in a Dan Air 727 operating from Tenerife to Manchester. We had a Laker 1-11 in front of us out of Gran Canaria heading for Gatwick that night. I queried with the crew about using a 1-11 over that distance without a stop. They said it was very marginal but “typical Laker” or words to that effect, though Flight Eng was more base in his comments.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[WHBM]

I believe the Laker One-Eleven services to the Canaries were indeed on the edge of performance, but they used a range of techniques to be inside the regulations, starting with only allowing an even less baggage allowance than the normal IT 15 kg. Did they do refiling of flight plan destination at the halfway point, as they passed Oporto ?

Laker had been a first user of the more capable One Eleven 300, which had more power and lifted more fuel, but broke the US weight limit for two-crew operation there, which the original 200 series aircraft had been sized to fit, The series 400 then had all these new features, but a lesser "paper" MTOW to suit the USA, commonly by not having full tanks, which the US operators did not need, and did not have the maximum passengers IT cabin layout. Their One-Eleven operations would have been the first nonstops to the Canaries by an aircraft without an FE - doubtless hence the comments !

[Mooncrest]

I can't contribute much but a family member flew on a Laker DC10 from Luton to Turin in early 1980 on a school ski trip.

[treadigraph]

Apropos of not much, sometime around Easter or Summer 1973 I was at a place called Street Courte School near Godstone (between the M25 and the A25 and just east of the A22 - now a golf course) with a friend whose mother was the school secretary. It was school holidays, she was working and we had the run of the grounds (but not the Tuck Shop). I distinctly recall this vast aeroplane hurtling overhead very low indeed - even at the age of nine and before I took up spotting I knew it was the first DC-10 I had seen (I had a book or two, still have somewhere!) and it must have been one of Freddie's, perhaps doing crew training circuits. It was approximately on the downwind for 26 and turning south, probably less than 1500'.

(It was about a year later that collecting numbers became a hobby and I first visited Gatters: Laker, Dan-Air, BCal, BIA, Tradewinds, IAS... sigh.)

[spekesoftly]

The comments about Laker 1-11 long range operations in posts #4 and #5 caught my attention. Back in the winter of 74/75 I was due to return on a Laker B707 to Cyprus, after a short spell of Christmas leave in the UK. At Gatwick we were told that our departure would be delayed as the aircraft had gone tech. Eventually we were split into two groups, and flown back to Akrotiri in two BAC 1-11s. Shortly after departure the Captain spoke on the PA, apologised for the delay, and explained that we may have to make a tech stop to refuel. In the event, we picked up a favourable tail wind and landed at Akrotiri without refuelling en route.

[TCU]

I seem to recall from a previous thread..."Holiday Jets" possibly?...that Laker developed some unique take-off (reduced thrust) and climb techniques for its 1-11's that gave them just enough margin to make the 1-11 viable on these long legs. I'm sure the learned rog747 and others will fill the gaps

I am rather jealous of Mooncrest's Laker DC-10 recollection. My school ski-trips were always on Dan Air or Monarch 1-11's, save one glorious year where our ride both ways was on Monarch 720's

[Musket90]

I remember in the early 70's during winter seeing a Laker 1-11 do non-stop Tenerife-Glasgow. Must have been a good tailwind day.

[lederhosen]

I spoke with some crew who remembered the technique on canary flights of filing Jersey with Gatwick as the alternate. This allowed a much lower contingency fuel with most flights then continuing on perfectly legally to Gatwick. I am told they did have to tech stop quite often in the channel Islands though.

[WHBM]

A Laker DC-10-10 was my first DC-10 flight, 1974, Manchester to Toronto ABC. That must have been up near the performance limits for the type as well (first DC-10 ever seen, to take up Treadders point, was September 1971, American at San Francisco, just a few days, I later found out, after the type's inaugural flight, which was JFK-SFO).

Those Laker One-Eleven -300s must have been good performers, because when Laker went under they were sold to British Caledonian, who simultaneously sold their same sized -200 fleet.

I believe they had five of them, commonly based for summer three at Gatwick, one at Manchester, and one at Liverpool, operating for the two Laker tour operators mentioned above. The northern Arrowsmith company was actually headquartered in Liverpool. I seem to recall that some years they used a Laker aircraft at Liverpool, and other years a Cambrian One-Eleven on the same sort of routings.

The 707s were an early purchase, the first two were actually ex-British Eagle, when they shut down in 1968, doing transatlantic charters in summer and a few of the longer holiday flights. Am I correct that they used to do charters to Hong Kong in the off season ? They also got together with a Barbados operator, and did winter flights there from not only Gatwick but various continental Europe points.

I believe those first Laker DC-10-10s were a confident speculation by McDonnell Douglas salesmen that All Nippon would buy them, but they decided on the Tristar instead, and were offered as a quick delivery bargain. This introduced Laker to the Japanese Mitsui finance house, who later bankrolled the excessive DC-10-30 fleet which led to the end for the airline.

[Jhieminga]

... and even bought the prototype VC10, which I don't think was ever painted or operated under their own name, seemingly always leased out (but was it with Laker crews ?).
Sir Freddie had been interested in purchasing the prototype VC10 for a while. He bought it in 1967 and immediately leased it to MEA who were already operating the second Ghana Airways airframe. The prototype spent a year with MEA and once the lease ended (MEA had enough 707s by now) Laker sold the VC10 to BUA. I don't think any Laker crews ever flew it.

[Mooncrest]

I seem to recall from a previous thread..."Holiday Jets" possibly?...that Laker developed some unique take-off (reduced thrust) and climb techniques for its 1-11's that gave them just enough margin to make the 1-11 viable on these long legs. I'm sure the learned rog747 and others will fill the gaps

I am rather jealous of Mooncrest's Laker DC-10 recollection. My school ski-trips were always on Dan Air or Monarch 1-11's, save one glorious year where our ride both ways was on Monarch 720's
This flight was less than a year after AA lost a DC-10 at Chicago. Apparently there were a lot of gasps and expletives when the Luton airport bus pulled up outside the Laker aircraft, having already passed a few Monarch aircraft.

[treadigraph]

Laker 1-11s were G-ATPK, G-AVBW, X and Y, G-AVYZ.
B707s, G-AVZZ and AWDG ex Eagle/Qantas 138s, G-BFBS and Z ex NW/Cathay 351s.
DC-10 10s, G-AZZC and D, BBSZ, BELO, GFAL and GSKY.
DC-10 30s, G-BGXE - I.
A300s G-BIMA - C, which I think were the only three delivered from 10 ordered.
Britannias G-ANBM/N

I recall one of one 707 always had International Caribbean titles, certainly when I first spent time atop the Gatwick spectators' balcony...

Currently wading through Part 1 of the Biography recommended on the other thread as my bedtime reading... :ok:

[chaps1954]

I can remember a trip to Rhodes from Manchester with a call at Zagreb in both direction on a 1-11 in 1976, very enjoyable. Next trip was to be on DC10-30 Manchester to Miami and return which was to my last in 1982

[rog747]

Laker 1-11s were G-ATPK, G-AVBW, X and Y, G-AVYZ plus a leased one from Bahamas Airways, G-AXMU summer 1969

4 B707s, G-AVZZ and WDG ex Eagle/Qantas -138Bs, these were passed to Laker in early 1969 by a deal via Kleinwort, Eagles administrators.
G-BFBS and Z ex NW/Cathay 351s. These were the unique SCD models for NW - very early build 320B's non-adv to replace the -138B's.

6 DC-10 10s, G-AZZC and D, BBSZ, BELO, GFAL and GSKY - several came from the cancelled ANA and Mitsui Japan order - as did THY's trio,
and one of Laker's G-BELO was an early prototype #2 destined for AA but NTU - built in 1970 but not to GK until 1977.
2 of the youngest DC10-10's went to BCAL Charter/ BCA Charter (+ G-BELO added to Calair/Novair) -- op'd to 380 pax from 345 with GK.

5 DC-10 30s, G-BGXE - I

3 A300s G-BIMA - C, which were only the three delivered from 10 ordered.


One 707-138B usually had the gold International Caribbean titles, G-AVZZ, as did the DC-10 G-BBSZ
Both the 707-351B's carried Caribbean Airways titles, one was named "Bridgetown".
The airline had been renamed Caribbean Airways.
A long standing venture with Laker and locals from 1970 - ICA was the national airline of Barbados.

All of the fleet were used on IT holiday charters -
The short haul places saw all of the types being used flying mainly from LGW and MAN, including the ICA painted aircraft.
DC-10 30's would go to Reus and to Ibiza for instance.

Laker had bought Lord Bros Holidays and later on bought Arrowsmith Holidays (flying from MAN and LPL)
Both firms later became Laker Holidays. Wings Tours was a big charterer of Laker too.
Laker did a huge amount of cruise ship flights and School Trips, including the school educational cruises.
I think Laker picked up Channel Airways Berlin based IT charters.

The longest IT's back then were LPA and TCI, Istanbul, Izmir, Heraklion, Nicosia and Rhodes

Never had an accident, nor even a serious incident AFAIK....EDIT see below lol
The DC-10 bulk hold cargo door modifications had already been embodied in the Laker Airways aircraft prior to delivery, and before the THY Paris crash.

I think the 1-11 range enhancements and fuel management ideas pioneered I gather, by Laker has been covered above already (Thanks)
Passengers were restricted to 15kgs /33lbs for luggage on many IT flights.

As a young spotter in the late 60's and early 70's the Laker Hangar was a ''must visit'' as the very nice guys there usually let you wander and/or be shown around the planes.
(so did BUA and Donaldson Hangar guys too)

GK Holiday flights were operated principally on behalf of Lords, Arrowsmith (from Manchester), Blue Sky (a division of Laker's competitor - British Caledonian) and small-to-medium sized operators, such as Club 18-30 in its early days.
Later on, Laker Holidays also sold seats on their charter flights direct to the public. To comply with the new regulations for flight only bookings were accepted on the understanding that Laker provided the accommodation.
A nominal £1 fee was charged for arranging the accommodation. It was supposedly available, but I do not think anyone actually expected any accommodation to be provided.

In-flight meals or snacks were served on all package holiday flights. The "meals" were often cold and normally consisted of Ham and mini salad, or similar, dessert and tea/coffee, served on disposable trays. Hot meals were provided on longer flights or if the Tour Op paid for them.
Breakfast was rolls, butter, preserves and fruit cup.
The snack served on a Laker night flight from LGW to Palma was two bridge rolls - one ham and one cheese - and a small Kit Kat.
Drinks were always served and charged for.
Big Duty Free Sales of course.

There was no IFE on any Laker IT flights.
Neither the BAC 111s nor B707s had the equipment.
DC10s did have the IFE but on the package tour flights this was perhaps used for the safety demonstrations, although they did sometimes put on a film.
Interestingly, Laker got high utilisation of their aircraft. The DC10s would fly their Skytrain service to JFK and back and then do quick hop over to Palma or similar before repeating the JFK service.

I flew on the very last DC-10 30 in to LAX from LGW in FEB 1982 - Turned on the Hotel room TV the next morning and GK had just gone bust.

[bar none]

Laker 1-11's operating between TFN and MAN often had to make a last minute call at CWL for fuel if the winds were unfavourable.

My overriding memory of Laker was when I was one of the 389 passengers who exited from a DC-10 via the chutes on a runway at Lax after an emergency return on a LAX to LGW flight. The view from my window seat of the fuel being jettisoned from the wing tips to bring us down to something approaching landing weight was very impressive.

I was especially keen to see the In Flight Director exit the aircraft along with the rest of the crew as she was (is) my wife!

[pax britanica]

IWife and I flew on a package holiday to Athens with Laker- not sure why as both had BA staff travel options me dependent her employee. Going out was fine although I though LGW-Athens a bit of a stretch for a 1-11 . Coming back a different story , we ahd already had to have an overnight stop due toa starter shaft breaking the previous day ( very audible in the cabin) . . I no longer recall how high we were flying but the captain commented that we were climbing higher than initial crise. Part of the charter was Saga so lots of pensioners and just after the second climb a substantial number of older pax suffered breathing difficulties and the cabin crew were running around with portable O2 bottles. All seemed very odd to me being almost entirely BA or Euro flag carriers experience and it was only in recent years I read on hear about 'inventive range extensions' on Laker. I know they had a bit of a reputation for sailing close to the wind but I would have to say they sorted out our unplanned extra night very quickly and efficiently at an airport hotel but in hundreds of thousands of miles since then I have never again come across multiple pax starting to pass out or gasping desperately like that trip. Our next door neighbour had the misfortune of being with both Eagle and Laker when they went broke , but ended up with Dan Dare for remainder of his career.

PB

[treadigraph]

Never had an accident, nor even a serious incident AFAIK....EDIT see below lol


I remember seeing somebody's 1-11 being steered off the right hand side of 08 onto the grass at Gatwick after landing with no flaps/brakes, maybe 1978 or 79. Memory thinks not BCal or Dan-Air so possibly Laker or even BIA? I can clearly see it on the grass with attendant fire appliances approximately by the 26 numbers but can't see the scheme or remember whether the pax evacuated via the slides or deplaned more normally using the airstairs! Runway (well before 08L/26R) was closed of course for an hour or so until it was towed away.

[WHBM]

I vaguely recall a Lord Brothers summer brochure, around 1970, which had a holiday series to Albania, with a Laker One-Eleven, flying just once a fortnight from Gatwick to Tirana. This was at a time when Albania was generally considered completely isolated and off limits to any travel, which the brochure page made euphemistic reference to, and Tirana certainly had no scheduled services from the West. Given the long lead times for printing the brochures, I've sometimes wondered if the series in fact ever got started. It would have been a novel Laker destination.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I can't contribute much but a family member flew on a Laker DC10 from Luton to Turin in early 1980 on a school ski trip.


Yep, that truly isn't worth a lot. There are 10 000 other threads that you might wish to contribute worthlessness to as well.

[WHBM]

Yep, that truly isn't worth a lot. There are 10 000 other threads that you might wish to contribute worthlessness to as well.
Without fanning any flames, I think it's a bit notable, as I have never encountered Laker operating out of Luton before, let alone with a DC-10.

[Mooncrest]

Yep, that truly isn't worth a lot. There are 10 000 other threads that you might wish to contribute worthlessness to as well.
Thankyou Tartiflette. You are a wonderful warm individual. You might even be a human being.

[Mooncrest]

Without fanning any flames, I think it's a bit notable, as I have never encountered Laker operating out of Luton before, let alone with a DC-10.
WHBM. I do appreciate in turn your appreciations. Not sure how a DC-10 coped with the relatively short runway at Luton but I guess the Court TriStars managed all right.

[SWBKCB]

Without fanning any flames, I think it's a bit notable, as I have never encountered Laker operating out of Luton before, let alone with a DC-10.

Might have been this one?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Laker-Airways-Skytrain/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-10-10/1288724/L


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x690/11034ccc_68a9_429a_811b_9184cfbab2d9_989814e0fcdc72cf213a9a4 3eeb1712adf82f010.jpeg

[rog747]

Might have been this one?
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Laker-Airways-Skytrain/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-10-10/1288724/L

What a fabulous photo - thanks for posting (BCAL Charter and Calar/Novair would then be seen at LTN after GK went under)


Other DC-10's seen at LTN were Finnair's (flying as Kar Air) SAS (flying for Scanair) then visits from JAT Martinair and a World AW/MAS colours 1985 flying for Spantax or Monarch>?
Airtours were regulars.
The Monarch Airlines DC-10 30 was seen now and again until the late 90's. (maybe the last DC-10 ever at LTN>?)

[rog747]

WHBM Not sure how a DC-10 coped with the relatively short runway at Luton but I guess the Court TriStars managed all right.

The OU Tri-Star's seemed to of course, 1973 and 1974,
I think they even did St Lucia/Antigua out of Luton, tech stop was Azores or Bangor/Gander iirc?
It's amazing that the Tristar and DC-10 were seen very early on at tiny places like RHO-Maritsa, Gerona, Corfu, Reus and Ibiza amongst others...
There was even a Nightclub under the final approach path at Ibiza called The DC-10. (I know - I went a few times lol)

Also re WHBM's post - I vaguely recall a Lord Brothers summer brochure, around 1970, which had a holiday series to Albania, with a Laker One-Eleven, flying just once a fortnight from Gatwick to Tirana. This was at a time when Albania was generally considered completely isolated and off limits to any travel, which the brochure page made euphemistic reference to, and Tirana certainly had no scheduled services from the West. Given the long lead times for printing the brochures, I've sometimes wondered if the series in fact ever got started. It would have been a novel Laker destination.

I don't recall it ever started but it may have done -
Tour Operators from the 1960's were always looking at more 'exotic and cheaper' places to fly to for package holidays, Bulgaria (Varna and Bourgas flights) and Romania (Constanta flights) to name a couple, plus Thomsons put Algiers in a 1970's main summer brochure (Using BY 737's) Algiers of course, was once stunning, but it's instability began and I'm not sure if the series ever started. Likewise they tried also Dakar in the early 1990's - that too was doomed to start.

Laker and Lord Bros seemed to stay 'safe' and stick to the main hot spots.
I do not think that Laker (unlike Clarksons and Thomsons) entered into the building of any Holiday Hotels abroad.

I do recall that in the mid 1960's both Tunis and Djerba flights appeared - very exotic and British Eagle had scheduled flights there to both with the BAC 1-11.
Other 1-11 airlines also went there BUA Autair and BMA.

Not until Faro Airport had opened, so the Estoril coast (flying to Lisbon) was very popular and also rather upmarket and thus the package holidays were expensive, same as the Canaries, Rhodes and Cyprus.
Tourism in the Algarve area really began to take off and The Travel Club Upminster was pivotal in pioneering UK charter flights to the new airport at Faro.
The airport virtually became an overnight success and was conveniently placed to the many resorts and beaches, such as Vilamoura, Albufeira, Vale del Lobo and Praia da Luz.
The town of Lagos is also known for its charming beach and historical appeal.

Menorca also got a new airport for summer 1969 when all passenger services were transferred from the old neighbouring San Luis Airport.
Previously I gather both the Bristol Britannia and Vanguards operated in to the old airport but not jets.
The beginnings of Menorca aerodrome were marked by the Spanish Civil War and the need for a military airfield on the island. In the summer of 1936, work began on levelling the airfield. At the end of the conflict in 1939, the usable area of the runway was 850 metres.
The airfield was used sporadically by aeroplanes diverting from the Son San Juan airfield in Mallorca when the Ministry of Aviation agreed to open from 1949 the San Luis Airport to civil air traffic, full domestic traffic and international tourist traffic.
The inaugural flight, by Aviaco flying from Barcelona, took place in August of the same year, establishing the Barcelona-Mahon route and using Bristol 170 aircraft during the first few years. In 1959 and 1961 the runway was extended twice.
The entry into service of Aviaco DC-4s made further extension works necessary.
In September 1965 the name of the airport was officially changed from San Luis to Mahon Airport.
With the increase in tourist traffic and charter flights, as well as the fact that the new jet aircraft required longer runways, the need to build a new airport for the island was soon taken into consideration and in 1967 construction of a new airport was underway built to serve mid-size jet aircraft.
1970 saw Minorca holidays included in many of the big Tour Companies Summer Brochures with new build hotels shown as the infamous ''Artists impressions''

[chevvron]

Don't forget Freddie was one of the pioneers who started his operations during the Berlin Airlift operating out of Bovingdon.
The above mentioned San Luis airport on Mahon was notorious for is very low LCN; more than once the visiting BEA Vanguard sank into the tarmac and had to be pulled out and that was ons of the reason a new airport was built.

[Brookmans Park]

The Court Line long haul operated from LGW couldn't get fuel in the Azores so we operated via Gander with a crew change

[Airbanda]

WHBM. I do appreciate in turn your appreciations. Not sure how a DC-10 coped with the relatively short runway at Luton but I guess the Court TriStars managed all right.

AFAIR the DC-10 and TriStar we're lead by an American Airlines requirement for a widebody optimised for US transcontinental routes including operating from La Guardia's 7,000 foot runways.

[JW411]

From my logbook:

07.03.80 DC10-10 G-BBSZ Gatwick - Turin - Luton

We had to be very careful not to put a truck over the edge of the runway when turning around since the minimum turning circle of a DC-10 was 147 feet. The answer was to send the F/E back to Door 1L, open it and then tell us on the interphone exactly how close we were to the edge before making the turn. The opposition would have loved it if we had put a wheel over the edge and blocked the runway!

[Brookmans Park]

At Luton Court Line had aiming markers at 45° in the turning pan, we then had an arc of pegs about 20 feet beyond the concrete. The technique was to taxy until the arc of pegs was directly below the pilots seat. This put the noosewheel on the edge of the concrete and then apply thrust, brakes and steering and haul it round,it worked!

[WHBM]

From my logbook:

07.03.80 DC10-10 B-BBSZ Gatwick - Turin - Luton


I guess this was a W, ending up with another crew back at Gatwick. Ski operators seemed to prefer Luton, whereas for holiday operators the focus was much more on Gatwick - even Clarksons and Thomson slowly added Gatwick operations to their Luton ones.

[nina wang]

Ah nostalgia!
1981 or 2 or 3, we had a wonderful Californian holiday courtesy of Laker staff travel
Must have been a -30 I guess to get from LGW to LAX.
The tickets were £5.00 each return! The cabin crew looked after us very well, we consumed way more than that in catering!
Also kindly offered the jumpseat for the arrival.
Happy Daze

[simoncorbett]

I flew on a Laker 1-11 LGW to TFN around 1969 ?? On the return flight we stopped at LPA for more fuel, I also used Skytrain DC-10 to LAX a couple of times, I do remember people bringing whole picnics on board to eat …very different to todays holiday flights !

[rog747]

I flew on a Laker 1-11 LGW to TFN around 1969 ?? On the return flight we stopped at LPA for more fuel, I also used Skytrain DC-10 to LAX a couple of times, I do remember people bringing whole picnics on board to eat …very different to today's holiday flights !

On the Laker Skytrain flights they were eventually to offer a meal included in all fares IIRC.
The last winter of operation saw the inception of a Regency Class Business seat upgraded product in the front cabin of the DC-10's.
I think MIA JFK and LAX were all to have this for summer 1982.
Besides the Skytrain flights there was a separate Transatlantic Charter program - YYZ was one popular route.

[BSD]

Laker Airways Regency Class. I remember reading a review (can't remember where, most likely Sunday Times) suggesting it was like Harrods opening a boutique in Tesco.

Alas, it was probably doomed from the start.

[SWBKCB]

On the Laker Skytrain flights they were eventually to offer a meal included in all fares IIRC.
The last winter of operation saw the inception of a Regency Class Business seat upgraded product in the front cabin of the DC-10's.
I think MIA JFK and LAX were all to have this for summer 1982.
Besides the Skytrain flights there was a separate Transatlantic Charter program - YYZ was one popular route.

By that last summer of 81, the transatlantic flights were getting somewhat erratic, lots of schedule changes and combining flights - we had one pax who was so upset that his 'direct' flight from Gatwick to New York was stopping at MAN, he ended up being escorted from the airport by the police. Sounds like Regency Class was another finger in the dyke

[WHBM]

On the Laker Skytrain flights they were eventually to offer a meal included in all fares IIRC.
The last winter of operation saw the inception of a Regency Class Business seat upgraded product in the front cabin of the DC-10's.
I think MIA JFK and LAX were all to have this for summer 1982.
Besides the Skytrain flights there was a separate Transatlantic Charter program - YYZ was one popular route.
I believe the Regency Class seat vendor was left with a large unpaid debt at the bankruptcy of the airline.

I don't know if Laker were around long enough to do charters to Orlando. Their other Skytrain destinations were in fact just rollups of longstanding charter destinations, originally affinity group (going right back to the 1969 programme and 707s inherited from British Eagle at the latter's failure) and later ABCs. People I was at university with in 1977 from Los Angeles had come over on a Laker DC-10-10 ABC, which routed LAX-Bangor-Prestwick-Gatwick (tiring). They then came on by train to Edinburgh the next day, not having realised where Prestwick was !

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

If a good book is your thing, I devoured (not literally) "The Glory Years of Sir Freddie Laker" on a LHR-SFO flight back in 2019 and have just bought the sequel, "The Second Coming of Sir Freddie Laker" for an upcoming US trip. It goes into detail on a lot of the wonderful posts above, highly recommended if you like that sort of read. Hope that's OK with mods, am not advertising as I have no skin in the game. Lots of detail on keeping all those DC-10s busy in the years before 1977 and Skytrain actually happening.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I believe the Regency Class seat vendor was left with a large unpaid debt at the bankruptcy of the airline.
I don't know if Laker were around long enough to do charters to Orlando. Their other Skytrain destinations were in fact just rollups of longstanding charter destinations, originally affinity group (going right back to the 1969 programme and 707s inherited from British Eagle at the latter's failure) and later ABCs. People I was at university with in 1977 from Los Angeles had come over on a Laker DC-10-10 ABC, which routed LAX-Bangor-Prestwick-Gatwick (tiring). They then came on by train to Edinburgh the next day, not having realised where Prestwick was !
Orlando only became a destination served from the UK from the mid to late 80s, Laker served Miami. The US Laker Airways from 1995 flew UK-Orlando with elderly DC10s up against newer A340s and B767s.

[John Ty Isaf]

I flew Laker Airways three times in the 1970s. The first was a routine Manchester - Palma IT flight in 1974. Memorable only for the smoky atmosphere at the back of the cabin where the smokers were busy burning their way through the duty free ciggies.
Summer '77 saw me on Laker DC-10-10, G-AZZC, which was operating an ABC charter from Gatwick to New York. It departed four hours late and we were given refreshment vouchers by Gatwick Handling which were redeemed in the bar. Once onboard I found myself sitting next to an American gran heading home and a Jamaican pastor. When the flight attendants brought the bar trolley round the lady and I were reluctant to order anything vaguely alcoholic due to the cleric sat by the window. We relaxed when he ordered 'Scotch on the rocks but hold the rocks'.
IFE was basic, a film was shown on the screen at the front of the cabin. Food was OK Return flight was a few days before Skytrain started in earnest in September '77. This was similar to the outbound but operated by G-BBSZ in International Caribbean colours and delayed by about 20 hours. Arrival at Gatwick was about 3am and the aircraft was quickly turned round to fly to somewhere in the Med.
The following summer I decided to take the Skytrain and arrived at Victoria Station, London about 8pm without a ticket on the 'first come, first served' service. There were about 60 people ahead of me in the queue and with two flights I knew I would be heading to JFK next day. Tickets went on sale at 4am and I chose to take the later flight which was operated by Boeing 707 (G-BFBS). I had breakfast at a greasy spoon near the station before travelling to the airport. I declined the offer of a meal and I shared the ham and tomato sandwiches my mother had made with another lad who had brought a whole chicken. I noted that there was a holiday atmosphere on board the plane. Few days later I saw a newspaper article about huge queues at Victoria for the Skytrain flights. Due to entry requirements by the US authorities I had already bought the return ticket. This was on a Pan Am 747.
A plan to fly Laker to Greece on the A300 in 1982 came to nothing due to their bankruptcy. Shame! We went on a Britannia 737 instead.

[Jhieminga]

If a good book is your thing, I devoured (not literally) "The Glory Years of Sir Freddie Laker" on a LHR-SFO flight back in 2019 and have just bought the sequel, "The Second Coming of Sir Freddie Laker" for an upcoming US trip. It goes into detail on a lot of the wonderful posts above, highly recommended if you like that sort of read. Hope that's OK with mods, am not advertising as I have no skin in the game. Lots of detail on keeping all those DC-10s busy in the years before 1977 and Skytrain actually happening.
We've discussed this same set of books in another thread recently, I can only second your recommendation. The story of Freddie Laker is also covered in the 1980 book 'Fly me, I'm Freddie' which is available secondhand at prices at which you can't go wrong. It only covers his early years though. If you want the full story, part 1 'Laker' (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0995648603/ref=ase_alittlevc10de-21/) covers everything up to the 1982 bankrupcy and part 2 'Freddie' (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0995648638/ref=ase_alittlevc10de-21/) is the convoluted story of the court cases that followed and Freddie's further ventures into airline and other businesses.

I don't own stock in the publishing business, I'm just enthusiastic about these two titles and the enormous amount of work that Ania Grzesik and the late Greg Dix put into them.

[WHBM]

A plan to fly Laker to Greece on the A300 in 1982 came to nothing due to their bankruptcy.
The first three A300s were delivered for the 1981 season. Freddie wanted to do Skytrain across Europe, from London to Amsterdam, Madrid, Rome etc with them (10 were ordered), but as ever the aircraft came before the licences, and they were deployed for the last year on holiday ITs instead. Two at Gatwick and one at Manchester. I think they were the only widebodies on holiday flight work that year.

[treadigraph]

We've discussed this same set of books in another thread recently, I can only second your recommendation. The story of Freddie Laker is also covered in the 1980 book 'Fly me, I'm Freddie (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0708820360/ref=ase_alittlevc10de-21/)' which is available secondhand at prices at which you can't go wrong. It only covers his early years though. If you want the full story, part 1 'Laker' (https://amzn.to/3zXzf7J)(https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0995648603/ref=ase_alittlevc10de-21/) covers everything up to the 1982 bankrupcy and part 2 'Freddie' (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0995648638/ref=ase_alittlevc10de-21/) is the convoluted story of the court cases that followed and Freddie's further ventures into airline and other businesses.

I don't own stock in the publishing business, I'm just enthusiastic about these two titles and the enormous amount of work that Ania Grzesik and the late Greg Dix put into them.

I'm reading volume 1 at bedtime at the moment, fair whacks me out holding it up... vol 2 is no lightweight either...

[SWBKCB]

The first three A300s were delivered for the 1981 season. Freddie wanted to do Skytrain across Europe, from London to Amsterdam, Madrid, Rome etc with them (10 were ordered), but as ever the aircraft came before the licences, and they were deployed for the last year on holiday ITs instead. Two at Gatwick and one at Manchester. I think they were the only widebodies on holiday flight work that year.

Don't remember there being one full time at MAN? The fancy underfloor system made loading the cargo containers a b*gger compared to the more robust system on the DC-10 - mishappen baggage containers never stood a chance....

[rog747]

I believe the Regency Class seat vendor was left with a large unpaid debt at the bankruptcy of the airline.

I don't know if Laker were around long enough to do charters to Orlando. Their other Skytrain destinations were in fact just roll ups of long standing charter destinations, originally affinity group going right back to the 1969 programme and 707s inherited from British Eagle at the latter's failure and later ABCs!

Laker went to MIA and also TPA from LGW MAN and PIK.

The UK-MCO Orlando boom really came about later on around 1988 >

Virgin 747's on charter flights at first, 2 a week for Virgin Holidays and Thomson Holidays sharing, plus the 757 ETOPS started with AMM AE and MON.
BY's 757 and then 767 ETOPS came a couple of years later.
Caledonian with the Tristars and BCAL Charter/Novair with the DC-10's.

Clapped out old ex PAA 747-100's were op by Lion Air/Orion Air/Tower Air flying for AIH and AE.
Lionair was created by Cargolux in 1988 and obtained several Pan American Boeing 747-121 aircraft, and flew them with high density seating of 492 -505 passengers.
Lionair won a major contract tour company Airtours, operating long haul Caribbean and Florida routes.
This was the start of an unusual arrangement with the use of various operating licences which the company needed to operate legally from the UK.
Both of the Boeing 747s were deployed in the UK for the Airtours flying programme. The main base of Lionair was Manchester International Airport but the company also operated long-haul flights out of London Stansted Airport. The company employed multinational flight deck crews and predominantly British and Irish cabin crew, some of whom came from the recently collapsed Highland Express Airways. Both aircraft had liveries of red, white and blue with the "winged Lionhead" logo on the tail fin.
When operating the Caribbean routes to Puerto Plata, Santo Domingo, Barbados and Antigua, the company adopted the name Caribbean Airways The National Airline of Barbados for one of its aircraft for licensing reasons. For similar reasons, when operating the Orlando, Florida route, the sister 747 used name of the US airline Orionair. This caused much confusion as some passengers thought they were flying with the British Charter airline Orion Airways of East Midlands.
Lionair began to experience a string of long delays due to aircraft technical issues, sometimes its Airtours holiday passengers stranded for days. In 1989, Airtours decided to terminate its long-haul flying programme with the company.
AE leased N751PA from Orion to fly to Bangkok, Acapulco, Orlando and Barbados from LGW and MAN, IIRC around 1988/89.
Then N602FF was leased from Tower Air.

I think ATA Tristars and some other US charter airlines with DC-8's etc also began Orlando flights around then.

[Null Orifice]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/620x415/boeing_707_138_internationalcaribbean_g_avzz_lgw1976_320x214 _99cff97879bccbd173f9a84e30eba8a9a07f5a0c.jpg
G-AVZZ (I believe) of International Caribbean
Flew in this on a Laker charter Akrotiri-LGW and return at Christmas 1974. Not my picture - no idea who owns copyright, sorry.

[Old and Horrified]

I would have to check my log book to confirm dates, but one of my over-riding memories as a DC-10 first officer near the end was one of the last flights I did was when I checked in to go to JFK and found that someone had combined it with a MAN-JFK flight so we had to go to MAN first. We then found that we could not get direct to JFK from MAN with the load we had (DC-10-10) so had to fuelstop in Goose Bay. It was a very long day. I also remember that we had Griff Rhys Jones on the flight so if you're reading this, Griff - I am very sorry! I suspect that there was a plane full of people that swore they would never fly Laker again.


I also remember that we did a lot of charter work on the DC-10 - There and backs Tenerife, Alicante, Malaga, Tunisia (Monastir maybe?- can't remember) and others.

[Jhieminga]

I'm reading volume 1 at bedtime at the moment, fair whacks me out holding it up... vol 2 is no lightweight either...
A story worth telling is a story worth telling well... in this case it took them 1200 pages! ;) IIRC Ania explains how this came about in the preface to part 2. I remember having finished part 1 and wondering 'what happened next?'. Fortunately part 2 emerged in due course.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/bc1d16f4_c562_409c_b487_646a74e4f663_1_105_c_2467337164e3f6f 09a9aae91ff9dde94918874d2.jpeg

[treadigraph]

Vol 1 is reawakening upper body muscles that at my age should probably remain dormant!

[SWBKCB]

I did was when I checked in to go to JFK and found that someone had combined it with a MAN-JFK flight so we had to go to MAN first.

One of those days when we'd get a call from the check-in supervisor saying do we know anything about a Laker JFK as they had pax turning up wanting to check in, but there was nothing in the system.

Cue a quick call to GK ops...

[GBYAJ]

I was only 6 in June 1981 when my family flew on a Laker DC10 from LGW to Gerona and back on a charter flight.

Can’t remember much about the service but do vividly remember the outbound flight. My mum was prone to travel sickness as well as migraines which often were at the extreme end and appeared like stokes. The reason for mentioning this was that the story went that we left LGW runway almost vertically which triggered both of the above. She spent the whole 2 hours throwing up in what appeared to be a near death experience! the crew were great looking after her. She spent the first few days of the holiday in bed which was always attributed to our Laker Skytrain experience.

The DC10 was pretty empty hence why I think we must have gone up so steeply. The return was also on a DC10 so having had 40 years to think about it and read forums like this the flights must have been just to keep the planes busy unless a more suitable sized 1-11 wasn’t available on either day (although as a standard 14 day holiday at the time this may be unlikely ie it was planned to be a DC10).

We had a massive stash of Laker sick bags as a result which lived in a kitchen draw until about a week before the airline went bust and my mum wishing she’d kept them as collectors Items!

[WHBM]

I was only 6 in June 1981 when my family flew on a Laker DC10 from LGW to Gerona and back on a charter flight.
By 1981 Laker had more widebodies than they had work for; a DC-10 on Gatwick to Gerona is a pretty profitless run at typical charter seat rates. Sure, if it could be fitted in, a transatlantic run to New York and back comes in at under 24 hours, and a morning hop to Gerona could give additional work, but this was when they also had the A300 newly in service as well, which likewise now had to be paid for. The services these had been ordered for had once again not been licenced, and they too fell back onto IT work which Laker already had the aircraft for.

Mitsui their lessors of the DC-10s were pretty hard on lease payments to the day, which by all accounts were somewhat high anyway, and one gets the impression that by 1981 the operation was wholly concentrated on a financial juggling act, with aviation practicalities coming second.

[Jhieminga]

In my view, Freddie Laker often purchased airframes before figuring out what to do with them. A lot of times it worked, but by 1981 he had staked his hopes on several long-range route applications (Globetrain) and an ambitious plan for several European Skytrain routes. As we now know, it didn't work out.

[WHBM]

I think Freddie had certainly worked out in his own mind what to do with the aircraft. The trouble was, nobody else was yet in agreement.

[paulc]

We've had discussions about various onetime holiday airlines, but anything Laker seems to only discuss Skytrain. However they were much more than that, being a pioneer One-Eleven IT operator, plus 707s and, later DC-10s, used on Mediterranean flights, transatlantic ABCs before Skytrain, and such like. They bought up tour operators, and I think had a half-share in Gatwick Handling. Right at the beginning they had a couple of Bristol Britannia 100s, which seem to have been hardly used, and even bought the prototype VC-10, which I don't think was ever painted or operated under their own name, seemingly always leased out (but was it with Laker crews ?).

Any recollections ? Anyone ever get a flight on the A300 ?
yes flew on G-BIMC from LGW to Palma a few months before they folded. Was allowed to stay on the flight deck for landing too. Return trip was on DC10 G- AZZC.
Also had a day trip to Alicante on G-AVBW, November 1979 (was only 13) jump seat both ways too

[treadigraph]

Progressing steadily through Vol II of the book... couple of familiar names, Malcolm Fillmore who I recognise from my Air Britain membership days, didn't know he was an accountant and part of the liquidation (?) team dealing with Laker's insolvency. The other is Judge Michael Mustill who seemed to have put Laker supporter's backs up in favour of the opposition during one of the many court hearings - the name rings a bell as I seem to recall he also erred towards the British & Commonwealth Shipping side during some of their litigation with the Tiger Club over their Redhill Aerodrome lease. Makes you wonder...

Mentioned the books to my aunt while visiting yesterday and she told me that she and my uncle were caught by Laker's collapse while they were on a Spanish island, much to my aunt's great distress - she worries about not having anything to worry about. My uncle was utterly sanguine, he had a credit card, they'd simply buy tickets on another airline - in the event they were flown home under the usual ATOL protection...

[Jhieminga]

Found something that might amuse you... http://www.vc10.net/Files/Laker_A300.pdf
Page 1 and 3 are slightly wider than A4 but if you print the third page on A4, preferably sturdy paper, you can start building your own Laker A300.

[Gordomac]

Ohmigosh, you bods are getting in the way of my Sunday tasks. What a nighty read and I am, like WHBM going to change all the foregoing to a night-time read. But, hey, look ;

I left BA as a T1E jock having being swept in during the merger.Joined Laker as 1-11 FO and joined the first full group of Civil pilots (Fred was VERY pro ex-mill) for 1-11 conversion course with BA at Heston.

A big attraction was being Based at Gatters (ex Brighton boy) but hardly ever saw the Base. We did one week at Manch, two days off, one week in Berlin, two days off ete etc

My first operational flight was Manch to TFS. Ex BA, vey correct, I checked in at least one hour early and had everything ready for my Captain, Bird Peacock. It was impossible to get to TFS in one go so I planned and filed Manch-Faro-TFs. Of course, 4 leg day was unlawful (couldn't get back in one hop either) and I was ready to offer Faro night-stop !

Bird nearly fainted when I tried to explain all, warned me to stop calling him "Sir" or he would call me "Mary", bundled up all the paperwork & told me ; " Let's show you how we get a short-haul "bust-stop_ jet designed for Manch-Bristol, all the way to canaries without stopping. He did,even giving me the leg out and we larfed and larfed and larfed in the Excelsiotr Hotel bar after landing. So started a fabulous journey..

[WHBM]

Bird nearly fainted when I tried to explain all, warned me to stop calling him "Sir" or he would call me "Mary", bundled up all the paperwork & told me ; " Let's show you how we get a short-haul "bus-stop" jet designed for Manch-Bristol, all the way to Canaries without stopping. He did, even giving me the leg out and we larfed and larfed and larfed in the Excelsior Hotel bar after landing. So started a fabulous journey..
OK, so how did you do it ? :)

[dixi188]

IIRC a 300/400/475 series 1-11 could get up to 35000ft ok and you could get the fuel flow back to around 2000lb/hr per engine at Mach .72, so with 24800lbs in the tanks at start and using en-route re-filing a 4.5 hr flight would be possible.

[Gordomac]

Sorry WH. Still under a NDO (Mon Disclosure Order) issued by Fleet Office).. Dixi gives a clue to legit thinking and combined with very wide interpretation of rules & regs, we did it.

[WHBM]

It seems the -300 model of the One-Eleven was somehow a little more capable than the -400, or the rest. There weren't many built, but they included Laker's fleet of five. Notably when Laker went under these were bought by British Caledonian, who concurrently disposed of their pioneer, same-sized -200 series aircraft to buyers in the USA; there must have been some advantage in them doing the changeover.

[Liffy 1M]

There is a useful summary of weights, published performance etc. of the different 1-11 variants here: SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.bac1-11jet.co.uk/bac1-11jet.co.uk%20Specifications.htm)

[dixi188]

Tha BAC1-11 series 300 & 400 were the same aircraft except the 400 was certified to a lower max gross weight for US certification for two crew aircraft.

[WHBM]

Tha BAC1-11 series 300 & 400 were the same aircraft except the 400 was certified to a lower max gross weight for US certification for two crew aircraft.
This actually arose in an odd way. The US restriction on maximum weight (I forget which one) for two crew aircraft in the mid-1960s was actually nothing to do with prejudice against the One-Eleven, as I have occasionally seen written, but was done to stop a practice which seemed to be developing with the Douglas DC-6B, a complex 1950s 4-engined piston aircraft, which secondary operators buying older ones were starting to reconfigure without a flight engineer. It seemed there was nothing previously to stop this, so the FAA put in this restriction on weight, actually before the One-Eleven came along.

The first US operators of the One-Eleven took the -200 series, which was within the limit. American Airlines wanted the better capability of the -300 series, which had just breached the limit, so BAC further developed this as the -400 series, which reduced weight by eliminating some items (I think the centre fuel tank was one), restricting range, but American didn't mind that, as they really didn't want to use it on sectors over 1,000 nm. Once the US restriction was relaxed the two types' specification did converge, but remained as separate variants for their remaining lives.

[rog747]

This actually arose in an odd way. The US restriction on maximum weight (I forget which one) for two crew aircraft in the mid-1960s was actually nothing to do with prejudice against the One-Eleven, as I have occasionally seen written, but was done to stop a practice which seemed to be developing with the Douglas DC-6B, a complex 1950s 4-engined piston aircraft, which secondary operators buying older ones were starting to reconfigure without a flight engineer. It seemed there was nothing previously to stop this, so the FAA put in this restriction on weight, actually before the One-Eleven came along.

The first US operators of the One-Eleven took the -200 series, which was within the limit. American Airlines wanted the better capability of the -300 series, which had just breached the limit, so BAC further developed this as the -400 series, which reduced weight by eliminating some items (I think the centre fuel tank was one), restricting range, but American didn't mind that, as they really didn't want to use it on sectors over 1,000 nm. Once the US restriction was relaxed the two types' specification did converge, but remained as separate variants for their remaining lives.

Hi there WH,

Puzzling that Autair, Bavaria Flug, Channel Airways, and even TAE (all IT Charter airlines flying from Northern Europe down to the Med and beyond, you would think be operating at Max weights with high-density 84-89-99 seats) would all go for the -400 series>?

British Eagle and Laker went for the -300 series, that you say has higher weights and more fuel.

[bean]

Hi there WH,

Puzzling that Autair, Bavaria Flug, Channel Airways, and even TAE (all IT Charter airlines flying from Northern Europe down to the Med and beyond, you would think be operating at Max weights with high-density 84-89-99 seats) would all go for the -400 series>?

British Eagle and Laker went for the -300 series, that you say has higher weights and more fuel.
The FAA agreed extra weights later so the 400 became a 300 in sheeps clothing. 300 designatipn was dropped
This was about the time that they agreed to the much heavier 737 being operated by 2 pilots

[bisonrav]

Slight hijacking of a fascinating thread in the hope of finding some information on my Laker flights, since a few experts and crew seem to have responded upthread.

I flew with Laker in 1972, 1-11 G-AVBW to Corfu from Manchester 27th May, and then the return in the same aircraft on 10th June, a package tour. I have a photo of the wing over the Alps, the Alps were always a big deal on board in those days, as they emerged slowly from cloud.

The part of this trip that's a bit of a puzzle is the return. The Manchester records, which are excellent, has the flight GK304 coming in at 1814 against scheduled 1640 (fine, not actually a very long delay as it goes). But it is recorded as coming in via Brindisi. Why would we have hopped to Brindisi? Refuelling? Picking up passengers? It seems way too short to be a tech delay. Any ideas welcome, as well as any information on the outbound anyone might have in a log somewhere. I spent most of this flight on my back across three seats at the back - this was the period where everyone dressed up to travel, and because it was a travel day I decided to get ready early in the day, despite having basically a whole day on the beach. So I was dressed up in cardigan and tie, getting massively dehydrated, and ending up with a massive headache and being sick on the flight. My poor parents dealing with it basically, and I think the cabin crew were stellar.

Next flight was to Malta in 1977 on another 1-11, G-AVYZ from Manchester 11th August, return again on G-AVBW 25th July. Again any information about this would be fascinating. The return was supposed to be via Gatwick but arrived early and the sequence was reversed according to the tower logs, so Gatwick after Manchester.

And then finally a Skytrain return to Miami also from Manchester, G-BGXF, June 26th returning G-BGXH July 10th. I remember watching the Coalminer's Daughter on the outbound, and on the inbound the crew were messing about, with one of the flight attendants announcing herself as "Amanda Goodbody" at which about half the cabin laughed, and the other half tutted, always remember that.

[John Ty Isaf]

This doesn't directly explain your query but in July 1987 I flew Corfu to Manchester via Brindisi on a Britannia 737 (actually a 737-200 hired from Aer Lingus). During a cockpit visit with my sons - remember those? - the captain told me the high temperature at Corfu allied with the shortish runway and a heavy payload of pax, baggage and fuel necessitate something to give so he had some fuel taken off at CFU and made the short hop to BDS for a splash and dash. My recollection is of a very hot 45 minutes on the tarmac at BDS

[WHBM]

It was not uncommon in the 1970s/80s for return Greek islands flights to need to make a fuel stop on the return, the usual combination of runway length/temperature/etc putting a nonstop out of range - though Med resorts by definition don't get hit with altitude. I think even 707s could get hit from the shorter runways.

Brindisi was a favourite, they must have had cheap fuel, and/or landing fees, and/or a handling agent who got it all done in short order. It was not a IT flight destination but must have picked up quite a bit from tech stops. It seems only 110 nm from Corfu to Brindisi so there's the efficiency in not going all the way up to altitude and back down again. I wonder if from the mountains of one you can see the mountains of the other.

Here on Youtube is someone's video of a Laker One-Eleven arriving at Corfu in those times. Don't look at it taxying if you work in Health & Safety !

8mm 1978 Corfu Airport - YouTube

[Wodgit]

Mouse Island (specifically the trees on Mouse Island) were the problem at Corfu - especially as information on the height of the trees was never forthcoming. Laker was not the only UK 1-11 operator who would use Brindisi on hot days.

[bisonrav]

Thanks for the replies, very interesting indeed.

[md83FGHEC]

I would have to check my log book to confirm dates, but one of my over-riding memories as a DC-10 first officer near the end was one of the last flights I did was when I checked in to go to JFK and found that someone had combined it with a MAN-JFK flight so we had to go to MAN first. We then found that we could not get direct to JFK from MAN with the load we had (DC-10-10) so had to fuelstop in Goose Bay. It was a very long day. I also remember that we had Griff Rhys Jones on the flight so if you're reading this, Griff - I am very sorry! I suspect that there was a plane full of people that swore they would never fly Laker again.


I also remember that we did a lot of charter work on the DC-10 - There and backs Tenerife, Alicante, Malaga, Tunisia (Monastir maybe?- can't remember) and others.

What year(s)? Monastir Laker DC-10 zero memory of this. The only Laker I am sure about are TUN with BAC1-11

[rog747]

What year(s)? Monastir Laker DC-10 zero memory of this.
The only Laker I am sure about are TUN with BAC1-11

The Tunisian airports for Package Holiday flights from the later 1960's until the Noughties were Tunis TUN, Djerba DJE,
Both TUN and DJE were first served by British Eagle, BUA, Channel, Laker, and Autair with BAC 1-11's.
Court Line Tristars flew to Tunis in 1973/74, so I would assume Laker DC-10's could have too.

A few holiday charters also went to Sfax SFA (Dan Air def flew there)

MIR Monastir Tourist Airport did not get developed later to serve the growing main beach resorts of Sousse and Hammamet.
MIR was first seen in the Tunisair timetable in 1978.
No UK charters serve MIR anymore as a brand new airport opened in 2011, at Enfidha (IATA: NBE) to gradually replace the Monastir airport.

During World War II, the airport was known as Sfax Airfield and was used by the United States Army Air Forces Ninth Air Force during the North African Campaign.
Monastir Airfield was also used by the United States Army Air Forces Twelfth Air Force 81st Fighter Group.

[JW411]

From my logbook: I took Laker DC-10-10 G-GFAL from Gatwick to Monastir and back on 07/07/80.

[WHBM]

Holiday flights to Tunisia were always dominated at the various destination airports by French ones, from every significant airport across France. In the Laker era these were a lot of 727s, but it was also an early destination for the A300.

[Gordomac]

Cripes. Three sector day, one hour check-in, 30 minutes postflight. How did we get away with it ?
ps. I know the answer.

[LGS6753]

My first transatlantic trip was LGW-JFK on a GK DC-10-10 in March 1978, a bit before Skytrain started, although the aircraft was painted in Skytrain colours. It was an ABC (Advanced Booking Charter), and we received with our tickets a voucher to allow us to stay in the (then) Statler Hilton Hotel in NYC for $30/night. Bargain! The flight was via Manchester both ways - unexpected by us and not very welcome.

[WHBM]

My first transatlantic trip was LGW-JFK on a GK DC-10-10 in March 1978, a bit before Skytrain started, although the aircraft was painted in Skytrain colours. It was an ABC (Advanced Booking Charter), .
The aircraft were painted as Skytrain from delivery, for the DC-10s in the early 1970s; it took that long to get the Skytrain licences. The DC-10 Skytrain title was done in a backing of half a USA flag and half a Union Flag. The A300s that came at the end, intended for the same concept across Europe, had the same livery except that the title backing was now an elongated full Union Flag.

Older One-Elevens and 707 were similar colours but had no main fuselage titles at all, a slightly unusual Laker feature, having it only on the tailfin. The red and black colours were those of the jockeys at Freddie's longstanding personal horse racing stable.

[Sotonsean]

My first transatlantic trip was LGW-JFK on a GK DC-10-10 in March 1978, a bit before Skytrain started, although the aircraft was painted in Skytrain colours. It was an ABC (Advanced Booking Charter), and we received with our tickets a voucher to allow us to stay in the (then) Statler Hilton Hotel in NYC for $30/night. Bargain! The flight was via Manchester both ways - unexpected by us and not very welcome.

The first official Laker Skytrain flight took of from London Gatwick to New York JFK on Monday 26 September 1977 with a departure time of 16.28. Douglas DC-10-10 G-AWWC "Eastern Belle" operated the inaugural flight.

A good few months before you took your Laker Airways ABC flight from LGW via MAN to New York JFK in March 1978.

Laker had finally obtained permission from all the relevant authorities for his long awaited low cost transatlantic Skytrain service in May 1977.

[bean]

The first official Laker Skytrain flight took of from London Gatwick to New York JFK on Monday 26 September 1977 with a departure time of 16.28. Douglas DC-10-10 G-AWWC "Eastern Belle" operated the inaugural flight.

A good few months before you took your Laker Airways ABC flight from LGW via MAN to New York JFK in March 1978.

Laker had finally obtained permission from all the relevant authorities for his long awaited low cost transatlantic Skytrain service in May 1977.
G-AZZC

[Sotonsean]

G-AZZC

I really don't know how I totally messed up with the registration. Obviously I typed the incorrect registration.

[astralclouds]

Yep, that truly isn't worth a lot. There are 10 000 other threads that you might wish to contribute worthlessness to as well.
I can confirm this.
In February 1980, I flew on G-GFAL Laker DC-10 from Luton to Milan Malpensa as part of a combine Buckinghamshire schools ski trip (kids from about 4 different comps). We flew out on Thursday 16 Feb, just before half-term, returning 7 days later. I noted the aircraft details in my diary of the trip. We were heading to Passo del Tonale high up at 2000m on the Lombardy/South Tyrol border.