Article claiming new non financial perks for Alliance crews

[Fluke]

Australian Aviation reporting that Alliance are losing pilots overseas and finding it difficult to attract new recruits. Non financial perks are mentioned in the article as part of a remedy!
Any suggestions ? 😁

[Australopithecus]

Let me ask my bank if I can trade some non-financial perks for a house. I will get back to you.

[aussieflyboy]

Access to QF Staff travel

[Qanchor]

Access to QF Staff travel

Perfect! Let me guess, NDOJ | UP-F13 | OP-20

[Wizofoz]

Isn't capitolism great- supply and demand, right up until we're the ones in demand!!

[neville_nobody]

Isn't capitolism great- supply and demand, right up until we're the ones in demand!!

Yep the market is completely broken because the airline management have way to much influence. Just to add salt to the wounds Alan Joyce was out in the media only recently claiming that office pay needs to increase because they need to retain staff. That's for dime a dozen office workers who you can shake a tree and plenty fall out who are qualified and he was talking about people who haven't even resigned yet.:ugh:

Yet here we are with a bona fide pilot shortage and all they can do is offer non monetary incentives. Meanwhile what percentage has the cost of licensing gone up in the last 2 years?

[stillcallozhome]

Yep the market is completely broken because the airline management have way to much influence. Just to add salt to the wounds Alan Joyce was out in the media only recently claiming that office pay needs to increase because they need to retain staff. That's for dime a dozen office workers who you can shake a tree and plenty fall out who are qualified and he was talking about people who haven't even resigned yet.:ugh:

Yet here we are with a bona fide pilot shortage and all they can do is offer non monetary incentives. Meanwhile what percentage has the cost of licensing gone up in the last 2 years?

The difference is pilots are in a seniority based job/industry. A pilot cannot move to another airline for the same or better pay like almost every other job. Starting at the bottom again means a cut in pay, conditions, and possible career progression. I’m not saying to abolish the seniority system (though it does have its pros and cons) but whilst pilots operate under one, management know the majority of pilots won’t walk because of the risks and consequences.

Without the threat of pilots moving from airline to airline, management know the pilot group have little to no leverage. The only pilots that can influence are the newbies on where they pick but shiny jet syndrome virtually nullifies that.

[ThunderstormFactory]

Pizza parties every Friday.

[neville_nobody]

The difference is pilots are in a seniority based job/industry. A pilot cannot move to another airline for the same or better pay like almost every other job. Starting at the bottom again means a cut in pay, conditions, and possible career progression. I’m not saying to abolish the seniority system (though it does have its pros and cons) but whilst pilots operate under one, management know the majority of pilots won’t walk because of the risks and consequences.

Without the threat of pilots moving from airline to airline, management know the pilot group have little to no leverage. The only pilots that can influence are the newbies on where they pick but shiny jet syndrome virtually nullifies that.

I didn't think Alliance had strict seniority as every different base is a different EBA?

[Stilllearning1234]

I applied for F100 position at the beginning of this year on Seek. I do have some jet experience.

I received no message to the effect of “thank you but no thanks” or even a rejection email, but nothing!!!

However, when I applied in States. I got few interview appointments and CJO within 1 week.

[DeltaT]

However, when I applied in States. I got few interview appointments and CJO within 1 week.

Can you tell us which ones, now that you have interviewed, so we can all join up too?! ;-)

[KAPAC]

I applied for F100 position at the beginning of this year on Seek. I do have some jet experience.

I received no message to the effect of “thank you but no thanks” or even a rejection email, but nothing!!!

However, when I applied in States. I got few interview appointments and CJO within 1 week.

Maybe the universe is trying to tell you something ?

[stillcallozhome]

I didn't think Alliance had strict seniority as every different base is a different EBA?

Was more a reference to the airline industry for pilots in Australia as a whole. The change we all want to align an increase in pay and conditions with the increased demand for pilots, can’t happen whilst under a seniority system. Until one can move from one airline to another and maintain or increase their pay, rank, conditions etc like other jobs, not a lot will change unfortunately.

[Stilllearning1234]

Maybe the universe is trying to tell you something ?

True!! Very Bery !! True.. 😎

[Jack D. Ripper]

Was more a reference to the airline industry for pilots in Australia as a whole. The change we all want to align an increase in pay and conditions with the increased demand for pilots, can’t happen whilst under a seniority system. Until one can move from one airline to another and maintain or increase their pay, rank, conditions etc like other jobs, not a lot will change unfortunately.

Too true. The very system pilots desperately cling on to, is the one holding them back. It is also the one which continually undermines them.

When an ex. A380 or B777 Captain want to come home to Australia, they are faced with 2 choices:

1. Take a pay cut AND step backwards to back seat or RHS; or
2. Take a pay cut BUT maintain LHS and continue to use skills and experience.

Most opt for option 2, and in doing so they seed the next start - up carrier, which undermines existing Pilot pay……..

All so we can protect QF and VA pilots career progression.

Meanwhile, nobody leaves those airlines any way, so why wouldn’t management continue to put pressure on pilot wages?

Great system eh!

[blubak]

Pizza parties every Friday.
Dont laugh,it may not be far from the truth,they may even supply a doggie bag so u can take some home to feed the family too.
I bet the genius who thought this up will be in line for a financially structured bonus.

[Xeptu]

The Industry isn't what it used to be, most pilots are only in it because they have come too far and can't afford not to be. It's not until you get out that you know it. Covid has imposed it upon them. No-one is falling over themselves to go back like they once did. We all love flying aeroplanes, but there isn't too many that love the job.

[twentyelevens]

Nailed it Xeptu.

[IAW]

My money is on Work From Home.

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[Angle of Attack]

I’ve been thinking about the Seniority system and agree it’s a noose around Pilots necks, it almost eliminates mobility and it extremely bad for bargaining power. It’s a Catch 22 though as to remove the seniority system there would be cries of anger from the senior pilots. I’m in a seniority system, but me and the missus have agreed I’m Gonski at 60 which is just over 10 years away, I’m going to leave QF at 55 and go the contracting jobs F them, and if it doesn’t work out so be it I have a UTE, tinny and a house, that will do me!

[Lapon]

I’ve been thinking about the Seniority system and agree it’s a noose around Pilots necks, it almost eliminates mobility and it extremely bad for bargaining power. It’s a Catch 22 though as to remove the seniority system there would be cries of anger from the senior pilots. I’m in a seniority system, but me and the missus have agreed I’m Gonski at 60 which is just over 10 years away, I’m going to leave QF at 55 and go the contracting jobs F them, and if it doesn’t work out so be it I have a UTE, tinny and a house, that will do me!

Except its actaully the junior pilots that miss out as the 'mates and mercenary brigade' take all of the senior/command positions.

Imagine a 'merit based' promotion system being transparent and limited in its ability to be abused. Ah huh....now back to reality.

[Xeptu]

Except its actaully the junior pilots that miss out as the 'mates and mercenary brigade' take all of the senior/command positions.

Imagine a 'merit based' promotion system being transparent and limited in its ability to be abused. Ah huh....now back to reality.

How do you measure merit when you're all the same, except years of service and hours in the logbook. In a commercial airliner you all operate the same, that's the whole purpose of sops. If you are different you won't be there very long whether or not that happens to be a better different. For those that think offer more than just doing your job, then that becomes expected, that is the cause of the problem and you created it.

[kiwi grey]

I have a UTE, tinny and a house, that will do me!
This side of the ditch, that's known as "The Three Bs (Beach house, BMW & Boat)" and also as the The Death of Entrepreneurship.
Very many small business owners think and act like "I've got the 3 Bs, why work hard any more?"

[Lapon]

How do you measure merit when you're all the same, except years of service and hours in the logbook. In a commercial airliner you all operate the same, that's the whole purpose of sops. If you are different you won't be there very long whether or not that happens to be a better different. For those that think offer more than just doing your job, then that becomes expected, that is the cause of the problem and you created it.

You might have misunderstood my sacrastic tone. Im all for seniorty for the reason that it provides transparency.

[krismiler]

Alliance were never great payers going back to the Flight West days. Not a bad job if you want to move off turbo props and get some jet time, or you'd already got cashed up overseas and wanted to come home, but it wasn't a great long term career option.

[Gligg]

Has the crewing problem got anything to do with pilot not being advertised on their careers page or seek? I'm no HR whizz, but advertising is usually a solid start point.

[ThunderstormFactory]

Has the crewing problem got anything to do with pilot not being advertised on their careers page or seek? I'm no HR whizz, but advertising is usually a solid start point.

I was just thinking the same thing the other day. They don’t seem in much of a rush to get guys interested in joining. There’s also dozens of pilots who live in Darwin, half of which are already EJET rated, the other half multi crew experienced who have been blocked from even applying.

[Gligg]

I'm guessing it might have something to do with a training backlog? Perhaps short of sim trainers, sims and sim slots? Just a guess.

Probably true, but every operator has that problem currently!

[Xeptu]

My money is on Work From Home.

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That's probably not as crazy as it sounds. My era of pilots would have rolled the eyeballs and chuckled 20 years ago, I'm not doing that today.