WIZZ AIR Skiathos vid

[Jwscud]

IMO a 3D approach based on Baro-VNAV would be of limited use as at the high ISA deviations experienced during the operational season, it would provide a steeper path than the PAPIs so would still require correction and visual flying.

[DaveReidUK]

I don't think this would help. In my view, this approach and landing went pear-shaped at 200ft. I see a discernable duck-under about then, and then a pronouced level-off (or at least significant flattening) of the last stages to get to the runway and a smooth, little-flare landing.

I may have missed it, but I don't recall actually having seen a profile of the approach.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/901x455/wzz870_553829649ac87df00a0c3e64e9ff1fab35dcd706.jpg

Usual ADS-B caveats apply.

[FlightDetent]

Bloggs and JW, thank you for chewing through my post.

You are both correct with the observations. In the part quoted above, I was aiming at a different phase but did not explain, apologies.

What happens BEFORE arriving at 1000' on the centreline. Anyone can do that, but it can be bit of a workload, processing the trajectory unknowns. Introducing a published track / profile for the lineup might help crews who are not everyday proficient in eyeballing a visual arrival from a random 4D position. Even if it is not directly linked to the shallow landing profile.

Am I saying the coalface A32x pilots of the EU LoCos can't fly a random visual pattern while picking their noses? To my opinion the answer is no, they cannot and most definitely they were not shown how to orient themselves in one. Definitely not in the Short and Narrow SIM qualification session.

Dave

This can well be an artefact as the recoding rate drops 50% down low, probably due to receiver signal shielding. But timing matches the voiced opinions the sneaky pass was a result of not keeping the descent profile where needed. It is well visible on the video at the moment of the wing pickup.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/932x567/snip_2022_08_26_083219_36c6d99f49ad0858e30d856bc3965bdc075a4 11a.png


And in case it paints a correct picture, the profile is somewhat familiar to me :E. Find yourself high, compensate with a steeper angle but misjudge when that is enough and end below the desired profile. They arrested the descent and just went for the numbers, a
natural reaction.

Probably not many naval aviators here, but is this not the reason why carrier decks have a signaller to wave the planes off? Because the pilot brain focuses on getting it right to such an extent the decision-making capability is pretty much gone in the last moments.,

[Coachcpt]

Not sure whether the same flight and an alternate view and some
editing or the captain went back to
really show how a pilot forum to disrupt the industry.

In any case - that is low!

https://youtu.be/2hQ9hFZ-KyA

Matt

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Same airframe. Same idiot.

[Coachcpt]

Same airframe. Same idiot.

same event?

That looks even lower and the chap in the green sports replica top looks even more blown away than the spotter freeze framed several posts above.

I wonder if the audible “Too low. Cameras” annunciation might need to be uploaded into the call-out system in due course! 😂

Matt

[enzino]

Same airframe. Same idiot.

You must be a joy to fly with.

[Confusious]

Not sure whether the same flight and an alternate view and some
editing or the captain went back to
really show how a pilot forum to disrupt the industry.

In any case - that is low!

https://youtu.be/2hQ9hFZ-KyA

Matt
Difficult to tell for certain, but it does seem lower and possibly different spotters.
You must be a joy to fly with.
He probably is, but don't judge that by him stating facts.

[enzino]

Too low and unacceptable? Yes. Is the skipper an idiot? No, I don't think so. He did not get out of bed on that day with the intention to screw it up.

It can happen to any of us.

[DIBO]

same event?yes (luckily), same airframe, same crowd, same....
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1169x747/wizzzz_639016304512f457c0916825a5cb1754e92deae9.jpg

[Coachcpt]

Too low and unacceptable? Yes. Is the skipper an idiot? No, I don't think so. He did not get out of bed on that day with the intention to screw it up.

It can happen to any of us.

oh god here we ago again lol - anyway - whether it’s a different perspective or not - I reckon with a ceiling wall roller or 5 I could of painted a fashionable rainbow on this A21N’s tummy for free.

Not sure how well that would go down back in Hungary though….

Matt

[Confusious]

Too low and unacceptable? Yes. Is the skipper an idiot? No, I don't think so. He did not get out of bed on that day with the intention to screw it up.

It can happen to any of us.
That has been discussed here to the point of endless circles being flown around.

[Confusious]

yes (luckily), same airframe, same crowd, same....
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1169x747/wizzzz_639016304512f457c0916825a5cb1754e92deae9.jpg
Thank you DIBO, good work. Now this thread can rest peacefully for a while.

[ManaAdaSystem]

I’ve flown into JSI several times this summer (and previous summers as well). A320. Call me crazy, but I kind of like flying into JSI. The PAPI is clearly visible, unlike a lot of other Greek islands. You can do pure visual approaches, or use the NDB appraches in Final App or VNAV on the 737. Low on final? Sure, but not as low as the Wizz bus.
From the north it is vital to land before the downhill part starts. Last landing with 180 pax, brake LO and full reverse. No problems at all.
From the south, a slight increase in sink rate on short final to make sure I land where I want. Yes, lower than usual. Avoid floating at all cost.
It’s a dry runway, so what is all the fuzz about? Wind is normally calm, visibility good.
Why are you talking about dispatch requirements? If you can meet them, use two alternates. Problem solved. In flight requirements applicable.
Never used brakes MED into JSI.

[RVF750]

As someone who was trained to fly into JSI this year and have been several times, I wouldn't dream of "dipping in" like shown in the videos. The performance calculations are always factored anyway, and even a sensible touchdown and flare will have you passing the Northerly apron exit at almost turn off speed, that's just over 1/3 into that runway. It's very tempting I must admit!

But, using Autobake Max on a 737-800 puts loads of heat into them, and as your choice is to turn off on that exit or continue to the end to turn, is it really mechanically sympathetic to go for it? I kick off the autobrake and feather it to the end, saves time and enables me to not put anywhere near as much heat into the tyres. I also have a good 3 minute cool down for the engines before arriving on the ramp.

If that time saving and slamming it on and standing on the brakes is your way of looking after your aircraft and passengers then crack on. I'll keep on making it a bit smoother and comfortable for mine.

[Barcli]

Sorry, am going to take issue with this one.

You have no idea how they were trained or what’s set out in their procedures.

I will shed a little light on the subject.

They were very probably (although I can’t be 100% sure) sent into the sim to train for a narrow runway.

To start that sim would be an A320, not the A321 they were flying. Then the sim would be VERY unlikely to have dedicated Skiathos visuals. It would have been a generic airport, just with a 30m wide runway. They may not even have trained on one so short.

Then if they were very lucky, the captain may have sat on the jump seat to Skiathos before operating in there. If he/she did jumpseat, they would have seen a training captain do pretty much what they did. Why? Because that’s what happens in Skiathos. Maybe the trainer might have been 15-20 ft higher, but that’s about it.

If we go right back to basics at this place, the touch down markings (the bit you actually aim for) are 150m from the threshold. The PAPIs are at the same position. As FD has already pointed out, if you aim for these points (as you have been trained) your wheels over the threshold are 8ft. Probably about 30 over the road.

So their “willingness to press on” is because that’s how they were trained. It’s how we have ALL been trained. And it’s why EVERY approach into Skiathos looks like a minor variation of this one.

What I will end with (and it’s my last post on the matter, because I’m obviously not some Sky God, just an ordinary line guy) is if you think you could do better fill your boots. I feel for these Wizz guys, everything is stacked against them. And then some Cuck Yeager wanna be’s come on here and tell them how badly they have flown.


Spot on - well said - It is the road that is too close to the threshold - that is all ( island = short of land , maybe) - if the road was 800 mtrs from the threshold like most other airports no-one would bat an eyelid

[Confusious]

Spot on - well said - It is the road that is too close to the threshold - that is all ( island = short of land , maybe) - if the road was 800 mtrs from the threshold like most other airports no-one would bat an eyelid
Just wondering, did you actually read the two preceeding posts?

[Barcli]

Yep Confusious - just summing up........:ugh: