Drone nails Al Zawahiri in Kabul

[skridlov]

Some very welcome good news. Took a while.
Once more Taliban assurances prove utterly worthless - does anyone believe anything that these slugs promise?
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/01/sources-u-s-kills-al-qaeda-leader-ayman-al-zawahri-in-drone-strike-00049089

[GlobalNav]

Some very welcome good news. Took a while.
Once more Taliban assurances prove utterly worthless - does anyone believe anything that these slugs promise?
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/01/sources-u-s-kills-al-qaeda-leader-ayman-al-zawahri-in-drone-strike-00049089

I don’t support the Taliban at all. But “these slugs” are true Afghani natives, and like them or not they are being Afghani’s.

Good that we put this Al Queda down.

[Lonewolf_50]

It's about damned time. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Just saw the speech, the messaging in it of "we will find you and we will take you out" was well delivered.
What disturbs me is that it was told (by someone) to the media that it was a CIA Drone that launched the Hellfires. That was commentary that was all a bubble after the president finished his speech. From the link, the info is: It was carried out by an Air Force drone, a U.S. official said separately. One of the people noted that it took “a few days” to confirm the killing because the U.S. doesn’t “have many assets on the ground.”

Why was that necessary? It wasn't. All they needed to know was "it's one of our drones, we shot him, he's dead"




[etudiant]

I don’t support the Taliban at all. But “these slugs” are true Afghani natives, and like them or not they are being Afghani’s.

Good that we put this Al Queda down.

Would have preferred to see the guy treated for some age related ailment at some US sponsored hospital. Making him a martyr is just dumb, imho.

[Lonewolf_50]

Would have preferred to see the guy treated for some age related ailment at some US sponsored hospital. Making him a martyr is just dumb, imho. Nope. This killing sends a message, and if you listen to the speech you'll understand the larger message.
Same with killing Osama. The message President Biden sent today was "we won't forget" and "we will find you and we will take you out" which is the kind of message thugs like that understand.

[etudiant]

Nope. This killing sends a message, and if you listen to the speech you'll understand the larger message.
Same with killing Osama. The message President Biden sent today was "we won't forget" and "we will find you and we will take you out" which is the kind of message thugs like that understand.

Based on the results to date, that strategy is an abject failure.
Really think that we need a different approach, because the current one is not working.

[punkalouver]

Based on the results to date, that strategy is an abject failure.
Really think that we need a different approach, because the current one is not working.

How do you define success or failure.

That is the problem. People like Etudiant will change the goal posts on you. Which is why I ask him now to give is his definition od success or failure. Of course, he will make sure to come up with something that fits the failure narrative.

But lets look at a repeat of 9/11. There hasn't been one. That could be considered a success. On the other hand, there will likely be an islamic militant attack somewhere in the next few months. Etudient will call it an example of how the policy is a failure.

Personally, I am happy with the drone strikes. They keep the enemy hunkered down. Bin Laden was apparently forced to use hand-written notes. Not exactly efficient. Sometimes, that is the best you can expect for a while. Martyr? Perhaps worshipped whether dead or alive.

Either way, those who would consider him a martyr are at the stage of being determined to attack, so keep 'em hunkered down. And don't be fooled by those who who have ulterior motives. As the blind, elderly Egyptian cleric responsible for the first World Trade Center attack proved.....those who state that they should be treated for an age related ailment are either fools or have an ulterior motive.

[Navaleye]

One weapon with a proper warhead would have done the job better and eliminated any other A-Q supporters nearby. Anyhow, looking forward to seeing the vid

[Toadstool]

One weapon with a proper warhead would have done the job better and eliminated any other A-Q supporters nearby. Anyhow, looking forward to seeing the vid

Latest media reports indicate that careful planning was done regarding how to carry out the strike so as to reduce collateral. The job was done perfectly.

[MechEngr]

Converting this guy to hamburger means no one can take hostages to try for an exchange and the hamburger isn't going to be issuing any coded messages to his followers. His human rights can no longer be violated - no worries about religious or dietary accommodations. And the use of a non-explosive device limiting the chance of anyone claiming to be completely innocent and having no idea what he did for a living also dying was apparently successful.

If his followers believe there is an afterlife, they should be happy he got there, maybe not in one piece, but still .There's no details on the conversion process to post-mort existence so just assume he's surrounded by other similar spirits.

Think of the engineers of that system - the aerodynamicists and the controls engineers and the EEs - all creating a collision, likely managed from half the planet away, launched from tens of miles away, onto a target the size of an a-hole. When I compare this to the alternative of sending 500,000 troops to go door to door asking if that guy was home? This was a far better choice.

[OldLurker]

What did the Air Force hit him with? Report says "two hellfire missiles". That'd be two big bangs. But photos of the house seem to show it more or less intact. Unarmed Hellfire? Surely not.

[MechEngr]

What did the Air Force hit him with? Report says "two hellfire missiles". That'd be two big bangs. But photos of the house seem to show it more or less intact. Unarmed Hellfire? Surely not.
Hellfire Ninja - it has a 100 pound (or so) block of metal and a bunch of actuated blades that pop out just before reaching the target to Ginsu knife whoever is standing in the immediate vicinity that the block of metal manages to miss.

Reports indicate the development was started under Obama, who was looking for a device that would not cause massive collateral damage to those even a short distance away from the target. The previous experiences of obliterating dozens of people surrounding a target had spoiled the political view - basically even though the person being targeted had slaughtered innocents by the dozens to thousands, it was considered poor form to do the same to immediate friends and family of the terrorist.

So this was created to be far more specific.

Years ago I saw footage of the FOG-M system. Even with a completely inert demonstrator one could chose which passenger in a car would get the brunt of the damage. I expect this is similarly fine tuned.

[Dave Gittins]

I heard it was some sort of UAV with spinning knife blades.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiO34P_naj5AhWUi1wKHbP8ARUQvOMEKAB6BAgCEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndtv.com%2Fworld-news%2Fhellfire-r9x-all-you-need-to-know-about-secret-weapon-used-by-us-to-kill-zawahiri-3216619&usg=AOvVaw1w6bX0FIpAVd4QE86NfALb

[jolihokistix]

Thought bubble: “If the Taliban were using him as a tool to counter-act the encroachment of IS in Afghanistan…”

[SASless]

The 9X is the modern version of "dying by the Sword".

[Lonewolf_50]

Latest media reports indicate that careful planning was done regarding how to carry out the strike so as to reduce collateral. The job was done perfectly. Yeah, and some of us know how bloody hard that is to pull off. Props to the professional who were able to put it all together.

[Una Due Tfc]

These new less explosive drone weapons certainly sound like an improvement. The collateral damage of older weapons always made me wonder if they were doing more harm than good overall. I mean there was the example of the wedding being hit in Yemen IIRC, and another were over 100 rural villagers were killed in a botched attempt to attack Isis in Syria. How many people did the killing off all these civilians radicalise over the years? Even the myriad of times the target was successfully neutralised but a neighbour or innocent bystanders were also killed is huge,

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/18/us/airstrikes-pentagon-records-civilian-deaths.html

It’s always been a weird thing about drones, if a special forces team shot dead 10 innocent civilians in a marketplace whilst targeting a terrorist, there would be uproar, but we don’t react the same way to drones taking out non combatants.

[Lonewolf_50]

It’s always been a weird thing about drones, if a special forces team shot dead 10 innocent civilians in a marketplace whilst targeting a terrorist, there would be uproar, but we don’t react the same way to drones taking out non combatants. I think that is part of why politicians fell in love with using them.

[MPN11]

I think that is part of why politicians fell in love with using them.
But largely to avoid casualties in the Home Team, surely? A coffin arriving at Andrews AFB is Bad Media.

[Lonewolf_50]

But largely to avoid casualties in the Home Team, surely? A coffin arriving at Andrews AFB is Bad Media. It's not that simple (largely?) but I am sure that's also a part of their attraction.
Depending upon how they are used, and which ones we are talking about, and what the environment is (permissive or non permissive)
a) they aren't very loud, b) don't have a big visual signature, c) can be micro managed by higher echelons of the chain of command (personal experience) and d) all of a sudden, with little-to-no warning "Boom" happens more or less from out of the blue. That can have a certain psychological impact.

[MPN11]

Agree entirely. I should have added a smiley … aplogies!

[The Oberon]

Here you go,


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/836x600/e861d900_7a33_41bf_87fd_792f1a003724_49bee1f4e6a777f00596d6e e53ce4d28e6a95980.jpeg

[Lonewolf_50]

Agree entirely. I should have added a smiley … aplogies! TBH, I am glad that this option now exists. If we'd has this version of Hellfire back when I was working with drones, there are a lot of engagement that could have been given 'weapons free' due to the low collateral damage aspect that could not be done with the basic warheads. (As a bit of perspective: a Hellfire was considered more appealing, in that respect, than a GBU-12).

[sandiego89]

The 9X is the modern version of "dying by the Sword".

No kidding, very much "cutting edge".

From the link by Dave Gittins, "...agency AFP that Zawahiri was on the balcony of a house in Kabul....The missile is fired from a Predator drone. It has no warhead, but deploys six blades which fly in at high speed, crush and slice the targeted person.."

[SASless]

Gutfeld's show last night had its opening segment about the Drone Strike.

It is worth watching....full of humor but some very interesting comments by a couple of the guests.

George Murdoch aka (Tyrus) had the last say and raised some very good points that questioned if the killing of Zawakiri was a wise move or not.

The reaction to the removal of Zawakiri, the affront to the Taliban leadership, and the open southern border and the report of fifty or more known terrorists known to be inside the United States being unknown already.....suggests the potential for payback is a clear and present danger as it could be described.

The Risk/Benefit analysis should have fully considered the reaction we could expect from the killing of the Leader Al Qaeda.....one who we have not heard much about or from in a decade or so.

Also raised was an observation that if this attack was politically motivated....as an effort to deflect from all of the current Administration's problems....that would be a very poor justification even if made at the very highleest level but without it being presented in any manner to those who conducted the intelligence operation and drone strike.

The real concern is if our adversaries have formed a view that we have a weak leadership and split government and a divided People ....would that convince them they could strike back without an overwhelming response from us.

All were agreed that removing the leadership of terrorist organizations was a justifiable and acceptable thing to do....but most mentioned the need to do so with serious due diligence.

[slacktide]

These new less explosive drone weapons certainly sound like an improvement.

Calling it a drone weapon is inaccurate. It’s a standard missile that can be carried by many platforms, and in this case it happens to have been fired from a drone. It could just as easily have been fired from numerous manned rotary or fixed-wing platforms, or even a ground-bound Stryker armored vehicle.

[Asturias56]

To be fair we chased and still chase nazis involved in the Holocaust 75+ years after the event. This strike just shows that there is no statue of limitations on mass murder or mass murderers

[Doors Off]

Bloke is gone and deserved it. The Groan aspect of delivery is silly to discuss here. Said tool can be delivered from numerous platforms. Hopefully it was delivered from project XXIII, the kid in the pram under the blanket controlling the robot dog and Mum was sipping her tea.

[Less Hair]

Would this kinetic kill by "sword" instead of a warhead have any psychological effect at all? Isn't this more about avoiding collateral damage?

[Lonewolf_50]

Would this kinetic kill by "sword" instead of a warhead have any psychological effect at all? Isn't this more about avoiding collateral damage? At the risk of being somewhat morbid: while he was badly chopped up, his family (or their delegated representatives) should be able to pick up most of the pieces for a burial, whereas with an explosive warhead that would probably not be impossible.
There's still the psychological effect 'death from above' (on those who remain) that comes with either method.
I think that they explicitly chose that munition to reduce / avoid collateral damage. As I understand the reports, it took out the man and the balcony he was standing on.
This is a major difference from the cruise missiles launched at Afghanistan (TLAM) to try and take out some of the Al Qaeda training camps (and it unfortunately did not take out Bin Laden): that was not the kind of precision that this flying, whirling knife represents.

[B2N2]

From last year, some good information here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvbz1HlqFa0&feature=emb_title

https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/how-tos/2021/08/26/the-telltale-traces-of-the-us-militarys-new-bladed-missile-r9x/

[megan]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/780x438/220802101940_02_drone_strike_aftermath_ayman_al_zawahiri_exl arge_169_012a692fe7bbf0e6522bea3a3997a5cd57f71c06.jpg

[etudiant]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/780x438/220802101940_02_drone_strike_aftermath_ayman_al_zawahiri_exl arge_169_012a692fe7bbf0e6522bea3a3997a5cd57f71c06.jpg

Thank you, megan. That photo makes it much more understandable.
Talk about 'out of the clear blue sky'....

[SASless]

It proves the weapon is certainly a precision device....but all that is fine but the really interesting factor in all of this is tracking the Dude down to a particular balcony at a particular time and identifying him to be he....before mashing the button that would render him into a far smaller version of himself.

This is playing Hide and Seek at a whole new level.

I hope the 2-I-C is the one that had the task to pick up the pieces (literally) after the Big Guy's sudden leaving Office.