Frozen ATPL question

[IHateTheSR71]

Hey everyone, I've been looking at ways I can become a pilot. Either via Private flight training (which I have had lots of trouble choosing a flight school) or MPL/Cadet Route.

However, one thing that continues to confuse me is whether once you have graduated from flight school with say around 200-300 flight hours and a Frozen ATPL. Is it possible to apply to an airline? Some say you need 1500 hours, 1000 PIC and 500 with type rating (I believe) in order to apply to get the job. And to achieve those hours, become a Flight Instructor. Moreover, some say you can directly apply and join as a second or first officer, and this has left me greatly confused.

I would really appreciate if someone could advise.

[iggy]

Airline jobs are like the stock market, terms and conditions depend purely on supply and demand. Is it possible to get a job with just basic training experience and a f-ATPL? Well, if airlines don't find anyone else to fill in the seat they would have to take you and train you. So, your question needs to have a time frame specified. Is it - will it be - possible to get a job as a fresh graduate in two years time, when I finish my basic training? That is the actual question.

I remember back in 2013, the market was awful, imploding. Nothing was moving and just a handful of airlines were expanding. Those who got into basic training were facing a hard time after getting their license, and were advised by experienced pilots not to get into the profession because the conditions were not ripe. The thing is that, after these guys got out of basic training, in 2015/2016, they found a market that was exploding at that time, and they were able to choose their first job. Even Ryanair was offering the 737 type rating for 5k EUR instead of the 36k they traditionally asked. These pilots took the risk, and it payed off big time.

This encouraged many others to get their initial licenses, in 2016/2017. When they got out of training in 2018/2019 the market had already settled and spots were mostly filled in, so they were looking to a much prolongued waiting time, with harsher condtions to join. And then, at the end of 2019... Covid came. Many of those 2018/2019 graduates are still waiting for their first job, many of them have changed careers and starting other ventures, just to survive, and many of them are already assuming that perhaps they will never fly.

So, investing into a flying career is stepping into the unknown. You should be ready for literally anything, including a global pandemic followed by war in Europe with a dramatic increase in energy prices. Only those who can sustain long waiting times, shifting of terms and conditions, and geographic mobilitiy, will be able to finlally land their first job and start their career.

Anyone who says that it will be possible/not possible to get a job as a fresh graduate in two years time is either BS'ing you, or trying to sell you an integrate program.

[rudestuff]

A modular fATPL requires 200 hours, so that's what you should be graduating with - if you need 300 hours you're probably chasing the wrong job.
the fATPL, plus an MCC course and probably a few other things are what you need to get an airline job. The airline may provide the type rating training or you might try your luck and pay for your own.
1500 hours/500 multi crew is the figure needed to upgrade an fATPL to an ATPL. You won't need one of those until you're ready for a command with at least 3000 hours realistically.
Don't confuse that with the US system, where you need an ATP certificate to fly in airline operations, even as an FO - commonly known as the 1500 hour rule.

[Aviator172s]

A modular fATPL requires 200 hours, so that's what you should be graduating with - if you need 300 hours you're probably chasing the wrong job.
the fATPL, plus an MCC course and probably a few other things are what you need to get an airline job. The airline may provide the type rating training or you might try your luck and pay for your own.
1500 hours/500 multi crew is the figure needed to upgrade an fATPL to an ATPL. You won't need one of those until you're ready for a command with at least 3000 hours realistically.
Don't confuse that with the US system, where you need an ATP certificate to fly in airline operations, even as an FO - commonly known as the 1500 hour rule.

Is there any real advantage to have, let's say 230-250h instead of 200h when applying for a FO job? I have heard different opinions...
Thanks

[rudestuff]

It's unlikely to make any difference. Airlines fly big jets multi crew, not small pistons single pilot - so there's zero value to them in any extra hours over that required for CPL issue. Having said that I know Wizz used to ask for 300, I assume just to have something to help sift the CVs. I've heard anecdotally that some airlines actively avoid pilots with too many piston hours. Younger and newer are easier to train. Plus of course, most of us could barely scrape together the money for 200 hours, let alone think about hour building beyond that.

Getting a CPL/IR is the easy bit. Finding a job afterwards is often harder. It's all down to your timing. If no one is taking cadets then you need to think about the apprentice route. Official or unofficial, it doesn't matter. Get a non-flying job at an airline and you're on a DIY job interview. If they like you they'll use you.