PDA

View Full Version : Cold War Q and the Buccaneer


bobward
23rd Jul 2022, 09:09
As an avid modeller for many years I try to 'theme' my building of 1/72 kits. I'm currently working through what i call Cold war Q in RAF Germany.
The Tornado and Jaguar are done, and future plans include the Canberra and Buccaneer. My research to date shows that, of the four jets, only the
Buccaneer carried two special weapons. Why was this?

After 40+ years I would hope that any answers not cause men-in-black-vans to congregate close to my little corner of Naaarfoook.

Thanks and regards

Less Hair
23rd Jul 2022, 16:15
Some interesting site to start with:
https://sites.google.com/site/raflaarbruch/nuklearwaffen

EXDAC
23rd Jul 2022, 19:11
My research to date shows that, of the four jets, only the
Buccaneer carried two special weapons.

Not a weapons guy but I worked on development of Tornado avionics, specifically the nav attack system. We all knew it was designed to deliver special weapons but I never knew what or how many. Left the program in 1979 and have forgotten most of what I knew about it. However, according to Wiki, it could carry 4 -

Up to 4 B61 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb) or WE.177 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177) tactical nuclear weapons

So maybe the answer as to why the Buccaneer was the only one that carried two was that it couldn't carry four?

bobward
23rd Jul 2022, 20:01
Thanks for the replies. It all helps!
As an ATC cadet I went on camp to RAF Wildenrath in summer 1968. We were taken around the hangers by a Canberra Pilot (Flt/Lt G**lyer I think). He said he wanted to show us something interesting and opened up a side store. Inside was a bomb dolly with a 'shape' on it. This was a training round that crews would use on one of the ranges to simulate a loft/toss manoeuvre. For someone of middle teens to see the kind of thing that might be used was sobering, to say the least.

We were also told in no uncertain terms not to go anywhere near two open ended hangers at one end of the airfield. Surprising how much one remembers after 50+ years.

BTW:
What is the difference between a loft and a toss attack?

exMudmover
27th Jul 2022, 14:50
Thanks for the replies. It all helps!
As an ATC cadet I went on camp to RAF Wildenrath in summer 1968. We were taken around the hangers by a Canberra Pilot (Flt/Lt G**lyer I think). He said he wanted to show us something interesting and opened up a side store. Inside was a bomb dolly with a 'shape' on it. This was a training round that crews would use on one of the ranges to simulate a loft/toss manoeuvre. For someone of middle teens to see the kind of thing that might be used was sobering, to say the least.

We were also told in no uncertain terms not to go anywhere near two open ended hangers at one end of the airfield. Surprising how much one remembers after 50+ years.

BTW:
What is the difference between a loft and a toss attack?
bobward

Difference between Loft and Toss:

AFAIR
In one type of attack the pilot continues the pull up, commits, and the bomb comes off (usually automatically) under g.

In the other type the pilot pulls to a pre-calculated climb angle, checks to hold that, and then releases. (Usually used for smart weapon release). Was used in the Falklands for Low Level PW2 attacks.

One is called Toss and the other Loft; I can't remember which is which but the weapons fraternity changed the terminology some years ago.

There are other more wacky techniques such as the Over the Shoulder (Pull thro' the vertical and chuck it back the way you came) . I believe they used to practice that in the old 6-engined B47. Rather them than me.

All of these attacks were initiated from Low Level.

All very exciting, especially on a dirty night in and out of cloud. Pilots used to earn their flying pay in those days.

chevvron
27th Jul 2022, 14:55
Bombs for the Bucc were carried internally which probably limits the size of bomb.

NutLoose
27th Jul 2022, 18:54
You got any pics of the Jag you built?

Timelord
28th Jul 2022, 21:41
Both the Buccaneer and the UK Tornado GR1 COULD carry 2 x WE177 , Bucc internally and GR1 on the under fuselage shoulder pylons, but not all planned missions required them to. Some GR 1 missions required 1 x WE177 and a fuel tank on the other shoulder pylon.

A Tornado loaded with 4 ( which By the way is not true) would barely have the range to reach the enemy .

bobward
29th Jul 2022, 13:52
Nutty,
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/canberra_b_i_8_xm278_14sqn_de3687bf886cb16a1ce47f9598efab199 7039dcb.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1235/jaguar_gr1_xz387_dn_31sqn_zulu_alert_jet_4acc696f3050bea26b8 0f1e72d4c44755fa33ee5.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/tornado_gr1_za602_az_no9_b_sqn_1999_80e103ea97018722350560c3 b79bf39c4722ad13.jpg

Many modellers have their own special 'theme' when building. Mine is to build stuff that I've seen over the years. Hence the three pictures attached. The Canberra was seen at RAF Coltishall's 'At home' in 1968, the Jaguar at the Royal Review in 1977 and Tornado at one of the IAT's at Boscombe Down. I've used a little poetic licence in each case to add a weapon fit that might not have been used with that special markings etc. For what they're worth here are the pictures

Haraka
30th Jul 2022, 12:29
Not a problem Bobward!
Some of the fits attached to aircraft in International Air Display static parks are often far more fanciful :)

Barnsbury
31st Jul 2022, 09:44
Buccaneers carried either one or two weapons internally in the rotating bomb bay. Two was a pretty tight fit.