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Parson
22nd Jul 2022, 20:10
Can the 6 hours PIC in the preceding 12 months before expiry date include P1/S time? Trying to find something on CAA website without much success. P1/S time was club checkouts. Thanks

Edward Hawkins
22nd Jul 2022, 20:21
How can club checkouts be logged as P1/S?

Parson
22nd Jul 2022, 20:28
How can club checkouts be logged as P1/S?

Fair question. I was sole manipulator of the controls and instructor countersigned my log book where I entered it as P1/s.

Whopity
22nd Jul 2022, 23:04
CAP 804 (Section 1 Part E Para 9 J
J Pilot undergoing any form of flight test with a EASA or CAA Authorised Examiner (other than case K. N/A PICUS for successful Test Enter time in ‘P1’ column and have it certified by aircraft commander.
P/UT for unsuccessfu test (including partial pass) Enter time in ‘Dual’ column

Parson
22nd Jul 2022, 23:44
CAP 804 (Section 1 Part E Para 9 J

Thanks Whopity. I’m still not clear on what a successful check out with an instructor should be booked as, even though instructors have signed it as P1/S. The closest I can find in FCL is 3.1 b) ref ‘holder of a pilot licence may log as pilot-in-command....flight time under supervision.....provided such flight time is countersigned by the instructor.’ Maybe I should have been booking as P1?

Whopity
23rd Jul 2022, 09:41
Put simply there is no official way to do it. It was quite common 25 years ago to do a club check and sign it as P1/S, nothing said that it had to be a licencing prof check, that came much later.
From Art 103 the Law says: (4) The information recorded in accordance with paragraph (3) must include—
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(e) information about any test or examination undertaken by the holder of the log whilst in
flight.

So long as you have fulfilled the requirements of Art 103 you are OK
It is a personal flying log book, you can put in it what you like, if its subsequently not acceptable for some purpose then sobeit.

Fl1ingfrog
23rd Jul 2022, 10:20
In plain English; the only occasion that P1/s is logged is for multi crew aircraft operations 'some limited use on 'integrated courses'). A club checkout is not a requirement of the CAA but is simply the owner reasonably protecting their own interest. So, log P1 as Whopity makes clear. The reason you cannot find an official explanation is because what your instructor is telling you does not exist.

Parson
23rd Jul 2022, 13:02
Thanks all - saves me from looking for something that doesn’t exist......

rarelyathome
23rd Jul 2022, 22:15
Are you acting as captain of the aircraft? Presumably not because the owner has required you to fly with an instructor before you can. In which case, you are PU/T. As has already been said, P1S can only be logged on successful completion of a test or AoC. I really don’t understand people’s reluctance to log PU/T.

Fl1ingfrog
23rd Jul 2022, 23:54
The purpose of a club check is to protect the owners interest, to ensure that the pilot will return the aircraft in one piece. P1 signifies that they have demonstrated their fitness satisfactorily albeit observed. No training will have taken place, Pu/t is not appropriate. P1s is not logged following a successful test for single crew, it should be logged P1.

Suffice it to say old habits die hard.

Parson
24th Jul 2022, 06:08
Are you acting as captain of the aircraft? Presumably not because the owner has required you to fly with an instructor before you can. In which case, you are PU/T. As has already been said, P1S can only be logged on successful completion of a test or AoC. I really don’t understand people’s reluctance to log PU/T.

Not reluctant to log P/UT. Have looked back through my logbooks and there is a consistent theme across the several schools/clubs I have flown with. Where I have been trained on a new type, it has been P/UT; where I have had a currency check with an instructor (because I am outside the time limit set by the schools) in a type I am familiar with, it has been P1/s. In all instances, what I have booked has been at the direction of the instructor.

MrAverage
24th Jul 2022, 09:29
"P1s is not logged following a successful test for single crew, it should be logged P1."

Not correct. The examiner is commander and his name has to go in the pilot's log book in the "Captain" column. The pilot's "operating capacity" is P1u/s. Examiner then signs the entry.

excrab
24th Jul 2022, 11:45
"P1s is not logged following a successful test for single crew, it should be logged P1."

Not correct. The examiner is commander and his name has to go in the pilot's log book in the "Captain" column. The pilot's "operating capacity" is P1u/s. Examiner then signs the entry.

Only if the test is for a licence or rating, which a “club check out” is not.

BEagle
24th Jul 2022, 18:01
Just use the flight as a refresher training flight for SEP Class Rating revalidation purposes, ask the instructor to sign it as such in your log book and enter your flight time as PU/T.

Rivet gun
24th Jul 2022, 19:19
P1s is not logged following a successful test for single crew, it should be logged P1.


In the UK a successful Skill Test, Licence Proficiency Check, or Assessment of Competence is logged PICUS. The examiner is pilot in command and signs the entry in the remarks column. This may not be the case in other countries?

Fl1ingfrog
24th Jul 2022, 19:38
In the UK a successful Skill Test, Licence Proficiency Check, or Assessment of Competence is logged PICUS. The examiner is pilot in command and signs the entry in the remarks column.

Whopity has already answered this point on the 23rd July contribution #4 (permalink)

shorehamite
30th Jul 2022, 19:30
Can anyone please tell me what form needs to be filled in for reval. by experience please, it seems 1119E is no more.

Fl1ingfrog
30th Jul 2022, 22:06
SRG3108: Application for the issue, renewal or revalidation of a ratingCompleted online. There is no fee to be paid if your licence has been revalidated by an examiner (or instructor if appropiate), so no action being required of the authority.

BigEndBob
4th Aug 2022, 22:32
But is a PPL SEP(Land) a rating?

John Boeman
5th Aug 2022, 08:38
Amazingly. I believe it is now form SRG1157

Search ‘ontrackaviation fcl945’ for excellent advice regarding how it’s filled in.

Fl1ingfrog
5th Aug 2022, 09:22
But is a PPL SEP(Land) a rating?

YES

Amazingly. I believe it is now form SRG1157

Nothing amazing at all. It is the examiner report that the Examiner alone completes and sends in seperately from the online declaration SRG3108 completed online by the pilot. Nothing new about it at all but it too also needs to go online..

MrAverage
5th Aug 2022, 11:49
I seem to remember reading that the 3108 is not mandatory, just an 1157 will suffice?

John Boeman
5th Aug 2022, 15:00
What is ‘amazing’ is that while it is an ‘Examiners Report’ form, it is now also for use by ‘mere’ FIs for the purposes of reporting Revalidation by Experience after they have done the required minimum one hour flight with an instructor.
It requires a little care filling it in because most of the form has nothing to do with said flight.
Not sure what was wrong with the form that they decided to stop using.

Whopity
5th Aug 2022, 20:52
after they have done the required minimum one hour flight with an instructor. The requirement is actuallyrefresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with a flight instructor (FI) or a class rating instructor (CRI). So it could be a 10 minute flight making up the 1 hour total!

SunnyDayInWiltshire
6th Aug 2022, 12:24
Amazingly. I believe it is now form SRG1157

Search ‘ontrackaviation fcl945’ for excellent advice regarding how it’s filled in.

This is indeed a very thorough and professional document, covering a lot of details.

The section on form filling clarifies the options:

the Instructor emails completed SRG1157 to [email protected]
OR
The pilot may choose to notify the CAA by completing the online form SRG3108 and uploading the completed SRG1157. No fee payable

Important: All 3 pages of the SRG1157 must be sent to the CAA

I would have thought that scanning and emailing form 1157 is the easier, although I have done both in the past.