RAF Fitness Test now IT not PT..

[ORAC]

https://news.sky.com/story/raf-recruits-shouldnt-worry-about-passing-fitness-tests-if-they-are-tech-fit-says-military-chief-12652062

RAF recruits shouldn't worry about passing fitness tests if they are tech fit, says military chief

Anyone thinking about a career in the Royal Air Force need no longer worry too much about passing a fitness test, provided they know how to work-out on a keyboard.

The head of the RAF signalled recruiting people with skills in data and digital technology - even if they cannot do a set number of timed push-ups and pre-dawn runs - is increasingly important in a world where having a technological edge is vital for militaries to succeed.

Individuals with autism and other forms of neurodiversity should also consider a career in the RAF Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston said.

Speaking at the RAF's annual air and space power conference, he stressed the need to hire from the widest pool of talent as the focus of his service expands from flying fast jets, transport planes and helicopters to also fighting remotely, with machines, codes and artificial intelligence.

Many of the people the air force is recruiting today "will still be in service in 2040 so that's the force we need to be recruiting to", he told the conference of fellow air chiefs and their staff, who have travelled to London from around the world. "It will be about data and digital and… we probably won't need people that must pass a physical fitness test," he said.

"We can have different standards. We can look at different parts of society that we haven't recruited from traditionally. But that is the nature of what a war fighter in the 2040s could be, so thinking, as part of agile thinking about the technology of 2040, thinking through the demographics of the work force that is going to be operating that technology and then you have to start recruiting them today."

[Timelord]

I had rather thought that the ongoing unpleasantness in Ukraine highlighted the continuing need for traditional military skills and attributes and how do we feel about “ Individuals with autism and other forms of neurodiversity” handling loaded firearms?

[Corporal Clott]

Are we sure that Wokeston isn’t a Russian infiltrator? :confused::}

[langleybaston]

Terrifying. It was/ is bad enough giving almost all Met. folk annual NBC, and a fair number a nine mil.

[Corporal Clott]

I wonder what Ben Wallace thinks? We certainly know what CGS thinks from Sanders’ very recent RUSI speech:

Standoff air, maritime or cyber fires are unlikely to dominate on their own – Land will still be the decisive domain. And though I bow to no one in my advocacy for the need for game changing digital transformation, to put it bluntly, you can’t cyber your way across a river

[ORAC]

I had rather thought that the ongoing unpleasantness in Ukraine highlighted the continuing need for traditional military skills and attributes and how do we feel about “ Individuals with autism and other forms of neurodiversity” handling loaded firearms?


Actually an awful lot of the effective warfare has been geeks designing a distributed targeting network working on mobile phones and Starlink terminals, others 3D printing tails and wings for mortars to be dropped by drones running on AI bombing algorithms and non-GPS navigation, and others running a supremely effective social media PR campaign.

Not everyone has to carry a gun.

[Evalu8ter]

Warfare is changing. We need to adapt, else we’d still be fretting about buying the right sabres for the cavalry or worrying about the armour belt thickness of a Battleship. Pointless having a battalion of muscle mechanics the wrong side of the apocryphal river if a pop tart eating cyber nerd with relationship issues and a heavy metal T-shirt can infiltrate your ever more networked systems and get your own FIRES to drop on you. Tip of the spear stuff will always need excellent physical conditioning, but, increasingly, the brain is as, if not more, important. Looking at the sort of person who is an expert on this sort of skill, marching up and down the square is unlikely to attract them.

[Evalu8ter]

ORAC, as we often are, in violent agreement….

[Timelord]

All true no doubt, but is all that not the job of other organisations? . Carrying a gun is surely the very definition of an armed service. So how many of our 30,000 AirForce will be “pop tart eating cyber nerds”?

[Saintsman]

All true no doubt, but is all that not the job of other organisations? . Carrying a gun is surely the very definition of an armed service.

correct, otherwise why put people through GDT training?

what next, troops working from home?

[Evalu8ter]

‘So how many of our 30,000 AirForce will be “pop tart eating cyber nerds”? You need enough, just like every other skill. Which means you need the attractive terms of service to recruit and retain them….

[charliegolf]

what next, troops working from home?

Like Ukrainians, you mean?

CG

[Toadstool]

correct, otherwise why put people through GDT training?

what next, troops working from home?

GDT, that went out with puttees, but I get your sentiment.

During Covid, the Armed Forces realised that sometimes working from home has been beneficial. Less getting bothered by rubbish on camp, fewer distractions and, I suppose, a lot of savings.

Don’t worry though, mission planning and flying is still a priority. There are still somethings you can’t do from home. MOD 1,2,3 (GDT) being an example.

I do worry though about the inequality of having some people in the RAF having to do mandatory fitness tests and being possibly discharged due to failing, whilst others in the RAF get a free pass.

For those of you in the old guard who have gone apoplectic with rage against any new (insert subject) this IT not PT is not a thing….yet.

[Lima Juliet]

But surely if you a have an unfit cyber geek that can’t carry a rifle as they are a bit of a liability in a temper tantrum, then you just let them join GCHQ? No need to dress them up in a uniform so that they look like a potato in a sock!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/656x584/beaed99c_509b_4935_8f5f_1c897760fc2a_85b528bb13310f3b85be830 64bacf90c1116c90f.jpeg

[Toadstool]

But surely if you a have an unfit cyber geek that can’t carry a rifle as they are a bit of a liability in a temper tantrum, then you just let them join GCHQ? No need to dress them up in a uniform so that they look like a potato in a sock!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/656x584/beaed99c_509b_4935_8f5f_1c897760fc2a_85b528bb13310f3b85be830 64bacf90c1116c90f.jpeg

LJ, there are still plenty of potato in a sock individuals around!

[Lima Juliet]

Toadstool :ok:

I also can’t help thinking about Cartman and Weightgain 4000… :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u171GcVX9wk

[The B Word]

Don’t be a fool LJ - they would never join up, the food isn’t good enough! :cool:

[Corporal Clott]

Serious mode on. Has anyone thought through the fact that physically unfit people have a higher mortality rate - ie. leading to more ‘death in service’ payments? They will likely cost more for Medical Services to sort out their high blood pressure, depression, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, higher likelihood of cancers, heart disease and generally higher occurrences of sickness. They will also have to procure and stock far wider ranges of uniform sizes. There will be a significant cost for not trying to keep people fairly fit and healthy - which the fitness test does…?

Serious mode off. Bloomin’ bonkers :ugh:

[ORAC]

Already had to be able to fit the 95% percentile. More hours/days/lives lost to exercise and sport injuries etc etc.

Frankly, all lost in the small change - and you don’t want to deliberately ignore a Mr Robot just because he can’t do press-ups.

The people you need in Space Command aren’t the guys from Starship Troopers…

[Diff Tail Shim]

Some of the cold war warriors I served with in the RAF in the 80s were the most unfit people one could work with. Fitness test brought in to deal with it. Fitter people tend to be better all round in all aspects of the mental game as well if under pressure. Fact not fiction.

[MG]

I should rejoin as I hated the fitness test with a passion. So much so that the stress of it came very close to preventing me from passing and I certainly tried to avoid doing it. When a colleague offered to pace the bleep test with me, I passed very easily so there was definitely a mental block. However, there was never any support available from the PTIs and both they and the gym bunnies who just told me it was easy can go and do one.

[Sue Vêtements]

Carrying a gun is surely the very definition of an armed service

respectfully - Maybe it is now, but they were probably frowned upon when everyone carried a spear or a sabre - and let's face it the first guns were probably more trouble than they were worth

And who was it who said something along the lines of "Aeroplanes are nice playthings but totally unsuited for war"? Or who called the submarine a "Damned unEnglish weapon"?

I'm not saying traditional skills don't have an important role, but there are plenty of other skills too and if we don't build a decent cyber defense, we'll be sitting ducks for whatever enemy takes the time to build a cyber attack force ... like Iran was when their centrifuges got destroyed

Maybe time to create a new service . . .


...and I just copied this link from ORAC on the Ukraine thread about the role software developers are playing in that conflict: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1547331386536755200.html

[Chronic Snoozer]

https://news.sky.com/story/raf-recruits-shouldnt-worry-about-passing-fitness-tests-if-they-are-tech-fit-says-military-chief-12652062

RAF recruits shouldn't worry about passing fitness tests if they are tech fit, says military chief

Anyone thinking about a career in the Royal Air Force need no longer worry too much about passing a fitness test, provided they know how to work-out on a keyboard.

The head of the RAF signalled recruiting people with skills in data and digital technology - even if they cannot do a set number of timed push-ups and pre-dawn runs - is increasingly important in a world where having a technological edge is vital for militaries to succeed.

Individuals with autism and other forms of neurodiversity should also consider a career in the RAF Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston said.

Speaking at the RAF's annual air and space power conference, he stressed the need to hire from the widest pool of talent as the focus of his service expands from flying fast jets, transport planes and helicopters to also fighting remotely, with machines, codes and artificial intelligence.

Many of the people the air force is recruiting today "will still be in service in 2040 so that's the force we need to be recruiting to", he told the conference of fellow air chiefs and their staff, who have travelled to London from around the world. "It will be about data and digital and… we probably won't need people that must pass a physical fitness test," he said.

"We can have different standards. We can look at different parts of society that we haven't recruited from traditionally. But that is the nature of what a war fighter in the 2040s could be, so thinking, as part of agile thinking about the technology of 2040, thinking through the demographics of the work force that is going to be operating that technology and then you have to start recruiting them today."

I'm not buying it. The armed forces still should ensure members welfare through physical activity. Healthy body, healthy mind. This almost sounds like it's acceptable to be unhealthy and unfit.

[Toadstool]

Already had to be able to fit the 95% percentile. More hours/days/lives lost to exercise and sport injuries etc etc.

Frankly, all lost in the small change - and you don’t want to deliberately ignore a Mr Robot just because he can’t do press-ups.

The people you need in Space Command aren’t the guys from Starship Troopers…

Have you got stats that more hours are lost due to exercise and sport injuries than obesity and it’s associated problems?

I’m yet to see any medical study that suggests exercise is anything other than beneficial.

Lets not forget those who can’t deploy because of their inability to pass a fitness test, leading to others having to take on their burden.

[Flyhighfirst]

All true no doubt, but is all that not the job of other organisations? . Carrying a gun is surely the very definition of an armed service. So how many of our 30,000 AirForce will be “pop tart eating cyber nerds”?

Using the wrong service to make a point. How many of that 30,000 RAF personal routinely carry a gun or get anywhere near the enemy?

You want the best people for the job. Different roles will have different physical and mental requirements. What is wrong with tailoring the requirements to the role?

[alf5071h]

The rule in architecture is that form (type and shape of building) follows function.
Fit for Function.

[CoodaShooda]

Today’s fifth generation fighter pilots need both the physical strength and the cyber dexterity.

[Flyhighfirst]

Today’s fifth generation fighter pilots need both the physical strength and the cyber dexterity.

Nonsense. I would like to see them try and write one line of code! They need the knowledge to interact with the technology. Not how to write it or subvert it.

[Just This Once...]

Wiggy - stop being silly. If there is no need for these people to serve in war roles then there is no need to add them to the uniform strength. We have civilian MoD staff for those roles. Use your efforts to campaign for additional funding for MoD specialists to be paid a representative rate, including dstl, DI & GCHQ personnel.

If you must change the RAF personnel structure, first have a look at the current trades who have almost zero war fighting roles - like the number of PTI staff that apparently we have little use for.

[Rigga]

So...are they bringing back the annual bike ride & wallet lift for older techies? If so, I'm in!

[CoodaShooda]

[QUOTE][/Nonsense. I would like to see them try and write one line of code! They need the knowledge to interact with the technology. Not how to write it or subvert it. /QUOTE]

I’ll bow to your greater knowledge.

My view is only formed through first hand discussion with F35 FCI’s.

[ORAC]

Wiggy - stop being silly. If there is no need for these people to serve in war roles then there is no need to add them to the uniform strength. We have civilian MoD staff for those roles.
You are talking about people who, particularly in targeting, drone control etc, will be in ordering, or actually executing, engagements - as such they have to be members of the military.

Unkess you want to go down the US path of the White House making target choices and engagements being made by civilians employed by the CIA and other non-accountable organisations.

[a_ross84]

The world is moving forwards. Can't be s uck in past like some people on here want to be.

[beardy]

I am really glad that those who were previously ineligible to defend our country will now be given the opportunity to serve. They will be able to contribute their skills and talents ALONGSIDE those who have previously been the unique focus of recruitment but who may lack some of the skills needed to prosecute war in the domains that didn't previously exist. There will always be the need for the infantryman and his skills on the ground, but the battle area is now somewhat wider, we must be able to win the wider war so as to be able to take and hold the ground.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Using the wrong service to make a point. How many of that 30,000 RAF personal routinely carry a gun or get anywhere near the enemy?



During my time in the RAF (NCO technician, 70's to 90's) I, and my colleagues, regularly carried a weapon; unloaded on exercise, loaded on operations.

It wasn't because any of us had any intention of getting near to the enemy (actual or simulated), but because the enemy had every intention of getting near to us.

[downsizer]

Small, niche cadre of cyber trained personnel to have a different fitness standard.

Slightly different but more accurate headline.

[minigundiplomat]

Someone seriously needs to guide Wiggy to the mess Webley and a glass of single malt and let him get on with it before he does any more damage.

[Timelord]

Still, I’m sure they will all look great in the new polo shirt, or won’t they have to wear uniform either?

[Just This Once...]

You are talking about people who, particularly in targeting, drone control etc, will be in ordering, or actually executing, engagements - as such they have to be members of the military.


As a former targeteer / weapons / EW / ISTAR / mud mover et al, I think you may be under the impression that qualified targeteers (or in similar roles) are somehow remote from warfare and only need the uniform for legal cover. In-truth it is a genuine joint domain with personnel drawn from FJ / Reaper / Apache / Royal Marines / Royal Artillery / RN submariners / SF et al.

The work is very much in the uniformed military domain because it can and does include some (very!) forward deployment in hostile situations with the full-spectrum of insertion and recovery methods. It is also a role that has seen me in front of industry, cabinet ministers, other nation's senior military leadership and (most painfully) judges. It is not a role for those who share the attributes selected by Wigston in this piece and there lies the rub.

There are many roles that have a significant behind-the-desk element but to undertake them they need the skills and attributes that can only be acquired by those who have extensive frontline experience and can, at no-notice, be tasked to forward areas to undertake certain duties. Even on the targeteer's qualification courses you are expected to climb towers, wriggle through bridges, electrical switching infrastructure and underground facilities. If you decide that these roles just need to be uniformed civilians then you get something rather worse than the RAF's commissioned telephone answering branch - ok for basic airfield tasking but zero idea of how to employ actual air power beyond a routine checklist.

I should probably add that working in the T&E world also gives you a bit of an eye-opener when working with the 'neurodiversity' that industry has come to depend on. Emotional intelligence, communication skills and flexibility are often absent and whilst cutting-edge industry prices these differences in I would be hard pressed to think of any desk-bound operational environment where this would not lead to tears.

The RAF has a very small uniformed strength supported by a vast and rather broad range of civilians. The uniformed core needs to be capable of military tasks and direct support of civil powers. I think Wigston's somewhat charmed, sponsored and rapid ascendancy has given him a rather limited view of the wider RAF, let alone the other 3 domains.

[Richard Dangle]

Fitter people tend to be better all round in all aspects of the mental game as well if under pressure. Fact not fiction.

It is not fact, it is merely your opinion. Anybody who has done any serious time in the military will know plenty of jocks and non-jocks who don't conform to your sweeping generalisation. People need to be medically fit to perform the role/roles that the armed forces require them to do. As has been repeatedly proven over many years, if you set the general physical fitness bar too high for non-physical roles, you lose a ton of talent in a hyper competitive market place. There is no more competitive jobs market anywhere on the planet, than the Information Technology Sector (I've worked in it for 20 years since leaving the RAF and I can still command a daily rate well in excess of anything the military can offer, even though my current tech skills are virtually obsolete. Salaries way in excess of anything the military (or any part of the Public Sector) can offer are easily obtainable by university leavers with strong tech skills. It is worth noting that more than half the workers in this industry are contractors. This is simply because job security is never an issue - walk out of one job tomorrow, take your pick from a dozen roles the next day.

Also, the ever-present mantra that everybody should be fit for infantry duties sounds great to the diehard jocks and empire/career building types, but it is, and always was, totally unrealistic.

Also, depending on your role (I was maritime aircrew) many experienced, professional military folk would dispute the idea that performance improves with physical fitness. I saw ZERO correlation with that idea in my six frontline tours.

PS

I'm a jock myself...still am. I've just never bought into the whole "physical fitness makes you a better person b******ks". Fitness is all relative. You need people to be medically fit to serve - we have trained people to assess and determine that. You need people to be physically fit enough to perform their jobs/roles to the required standards.

PPS

My final RAFFT was in Spring 2003 at the age of 47. It was a bike test administered by a PTI at Ice Station Kilo. He recorded it as a fail. Why? Because after xx minutes of pedalling at the required resistance and pace, my heart rate was off his scale chart............it was too low to be assessed !!!! :ugh:

[cheekychimp]

Small, niche cadre of cyber trained personnel to have a different fitness standard.

Slightly different but more accurate headline.
Exactly that. We in the RAF Regiment have our own fitness standards to be achieved, in a pass or fail test that replicates elements of our operational role, failure severely restricts employability. Why not ditch the common to all RAF fitness test and each sub division of the professions have its own physical employment standard/fitness test, if the test for the new cyber people is level 2 in the bleep test or successful turning on of a laptop so what?

[Timelord]

Different fitness standards for different specialities, eminently sensible as long as there is a basic minimum. Recruiting “autistic and neuro diverse” people who might not be safe with a weapon, not so sensible maybe.

[dctyke]

Repeated OTR’s in full NBC gear was far more demanding than the fitness test, yet some on the teams regularly failed at the beep test. Saying that I believe repeated generation exercises are a thing of the past nowadays.

[Sue Vêtements]

Anyone remember the original method where suitability for the role was determined by the size of the moustache?

[charliegolf]

We got shouted at whilst running around and faking pressups. Will the cyber-couch spuds be shouted at for crap keyboard speed, or what?

CG

[SASless]

Any of this sound familiar to the Life in the UK?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWN13pKVp9s

[EGDLaddict]

I recall that the fitness test was first brought in to get rid of some of the tubby SNCO's/WO's.
If they failed a couple of times they had to see a doc.
However, they moaned. So aircrew had to take yet another test each year - threatened with having to see a doc. DHO!

The former thing did work though. A lot of shiny-bummed individuals did disappear.
One found it strange though that the Wg Cdrs and above - our leaders = were exempt.

That sodding beep test did knacker a lot of knees during the 180 turn.

[EGDLaddict]

We got shouted at whilst running around and faking pressups. Will the cyber-couch spuds be shouted at for crap keyboard speed, or what?

CG
One might have to find them in their covert portacabins first. BTW, why do they wear flying suits?

[MFC_Fly]

...and how do we feel about “ Individuals with autism and other forms of neurodiversity” handling loaded firearms?
Nob!

I am on the autistic spectrum and flew in the RAF for nearly 30 years!

[Krystal n chips]

Nob!

I am on the autistic spectrum and flew in the RAF for nearly 30 years!

Your response to the quote is, well, definitive.

Autism is still very much misunderstood by people, and those who have the condition are routinely stigmatised as a result. I knew one young man who has the condition...he was working on safety critical rail maintenance and operations...a "manager " openly said "anybody with autism is a retard "....he's not a nice person at the best of times, but, when I submitted a witness statement and said I would testify, on oath, in a court when the young man took action against this particular employer, strangely, he suddenly became very quiet.

Another autistic friend of mine had his IT skills used by certain security organisations who specialise in such matters some years ago. He would be perfect for the proposed roles, albeit I wouldn't trust him to portion out a cheesecake dessert...ask me how I know.

The fact is, there are people out there would be delighted to join the RAF and be part of the Service. As others have stated, their "T's and C's " can be adapted to suit their niche area of employment and, with those small adaptations, the RAF can become a very attractive employer to those hitherto excluded and whose contribution thereafter could be invaluable given the developments and changes long evident in the" back room" as it were of the defence of the UK.

[Prangster]

Nob!

I am on the autistic spectrum and flew in the RAF for nearly 30 years!
Good on yer mate. It reminds me of Churchill's comment after his first visit to Bletchley Park, ' I know I ordered no stone unturned but really......he was referencing the oddity of some of the more effective practitioners of the black arts. thank god for the Josh Coopers, Alan Turing's and their ilk.. Brains win wars

[Mortmeister]

Someone seriously needs to guide Wiggy to the mess Webley and a glass of single malt and let him get on with it before he does any more damage.

MGD

I totally agree! I now work with the RN and am constantly embarrassed at the laughing stock he is turning the RAF into with some of his 'initiatives'.

The trouble is (and I speak as an engineer) we have always had varying degrees of attitude towards being military, dependant on what is your chosen aircraft. This varies from Support Helicopters (hole in the ground), Harrier Force (tent on the ground), Tornado Force (hotel near large runway) or Maritime (very nice hotel at some coastal resort). You will notice I am not picking on the Air Mobility people, as their lot has changed dramatically over the years (thinking about the conditions on Op PITTING). They just go where the work is!
Before everyone jumps on the 'outrage bus' I have done all of these with the exception of SH, so feel I am SQEP to comment. Most good engineers are probably somewhere on the neurodiversity spectrum anyway, it is what makes us good at what we do!
Having spent the best years of my career on Joint Force Harrier I enjoyed the whole 'green' thing and took personal fitness and military skills very seriously, as did the vast majority of my team. Why would you join a military organisation and not think it necessary to be fit enough and have the skills to able to look after yourself and your team? Let's face it, who wants to look shabby against the Army?
Or of course, you could put all the unfit 'nerds' in Space Command, give them a funky new uniform and separate them from the parts of the RAF that are actually military?

Just my thoughts
Mortmeister

[MPN11]

Mercifully I was spared all this stuff, due to timelines or rank. But I was still perfectly capable of doing my sedentary ATC/MoD tasks, and coped with 4 months of FI [7-day weeks] and GW1 [permanent nights in AFOps].

And as a life-long target shooter with both Rifle and Pistol at International level, I would be a hidden asset in Ground Defence if anyone would actually issue me with a weapon and ammunition. At Stanley I drew an SLR, as we were inappropriately scaled - I was Green Carded on same. But was I allowed to have a few rounds to check zero? No, not allowed, even if I could hit a man at 600m.

Horses for courses gets my vote.

[Krystal n chips]

As members of the current RAF are all healthy eaters, and, super fit without an ounce of excess flesh, the question is....where did they find the flying kit to fit Boris ?

Newspaper headlines: Sunak vows to 'ditch EU laws' and 'Europe burns' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62194671)

[charliegolf]

As members of the current RAF are all healthy eaters, and, super fit without an ounce of excess flesh, the question is....where did they find the flying kit to fit Boris ?



Brize?:E

CG

[muppetofthenorth]

Or of course, you could put all the unfit 'nerds' in Space Command, give them a funky new uniform and separate them from the parts of the RAF that are actually military?

Or, indeed, set up a Cyber Command so that they can actually do their work in a dedicated environment and, where and if necessary, work jointly across all the Forces.

[dctyke]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x432/e3730f0f_bc87_4c97_aa95_fba06cafb78d_eeca51aa8351323815f864a f5907563a1913f889.jpeg
talking of fitness should they go through this for tradition. Should be wearing lightweight cam gear!

[langleybaston]

There are some amusing anecdotes about Foot Guards clothing UNDER the Home Service and UNDER the greatcoat. Probably ARRSE territory, and the anecdotes include, of course, officers. Worth a Google.

[SASless]

Brains win wars

The American Army is doomed!

But Hey.....we can get our Pronouns straight and know all about CRT and stuff!

The right kind of "Brains" is what wins Wars.

[mymatetcm]

He can say all he wants, in regards the fitness of potential recruits. To do this the whole entry medical requirements would have to be re written.

[BEagle]

Some years ago, long before the RAF FT, a colleague who was ex-Lightnings, ex-UK Harriers was posted to an exchange tour with the US Marine Corps. It soon became apparent to him that our colonial chums had rather an obsession with fitness; however, he noted this with benign indifference. Until one day when he was invited to participate in one of those 'cadence runs' the USMC does...

"Run?? RUN?? Dear me no, old chap! British officers don't run - it would panic the troops!"

[BATCO]

talking of fitness should they go through this for tradition. Should be wearing lightweight cam gear!

Other countries manage to have a 'summer' parade uniform.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/453x356/oip_xpsjrihyiyv_seozbrwmfqhafk_6989d26d0099a4036680c90c29354 6bed0570ec5.jpeg

Batco

[charliegolf]

He can say all he wants, in regards the fitness of potential recruits. To do this the whole entry medical requirements would have to be re written.

There used to be a categorisation, the all-rounder being A1,G1,Z1. Just changing Z1 to P1 ought to do it, I'd have thought.

CG

[Willard Whyte]

That sodding beep test did knacker a lot of knees during the 180 turn.

3 operations, so far, for me. I was put on to the Rockport Walk earlier than my 55th and can still pass it comfortably. I'm not 'fit', indeed I could do with losing a few lbs, but I can pass the fitness test, even though I have no need in my job or in the real world to perform sit-ups or press-ups. I won't be sorry to leave all that sh*te behind when I retire in '26.

Still, I've outlasted a few enthusiastic cyclists and gym bunnies who died in their 40s from causes various.

[Ninthace]

When are we going to see an equivalent annual test for the bit that lies between the ears?

[Willard Whyte]

When are we going to see an equivalent annual test for the bit that lies between the ears?

Thankfully mental health is now taken very seriously by many people in chains of command, as well as the medics. Only problem is generally one has to seek help unless the people you work for have a degree of empathy.

[MPN11]

There used to be a categorisation, the all-rounder being A1,G1,Z1. Just changing Z1 to P1 ought to do it, I'd have thought. IIRC, it was A fit for aircrew (I was A4, eyesight), G fit for ground duties and Z fit for overseas. Still, my A4G1Z1 was good fun and paid well eventually.

[Toadstool]

When are we going to see an equivalent annual test for the bit that lies between the ears?

I have a check ride every year for professional competency, a physical fitness test every year (actually every two years) and at least two mental health DLE competencies. This is in addition to my annual PME.

[Toadstool]

Thankfully mental health is now taken very seriously by many people in chains of command, as well as the medics. Only problem is generally one has to seek help unless the people you work for have a degree of empathy.

With all the MH training that we get, thankfully people are more inclined to ask people if they are ok, as opposed to waiting for people to recognise it themselves.

[langleybaston]

Do the trick cyclists also look at something like Myers-Briggs?

I would not want several of the 16 types in my unit/ aircraft/ ship/ ditch.

[They wouldn't want me, of course]

[ExAscoteer2]

Do the trick cyclists also look at something like Myers-Briggs?

Myers-Briggs became part of the CRM Cse in the late '90s. IMHO it's utter horlicks.

[langleybaston]

Myers-Briggs became part of the CRM Cse in the late '90s. IMHO it's utter horlicks.

It may well be, it may very well be.

Fact is, when I was subjected to it and saw the result I most definitely identified with it. Perhaps everyone does ....... one size fits all.

[SASless]

Beags,

Had he been with a US Army Aviation Unit and stayed close to the Warrant Officer Pilots and played our Corps notorious Game known as "Where's Chief?"....he would have found himself in an aircraft overflying that bit of cadence called bit of silliness known as "running".

[MPN11]

I did that free on-line test without really concentrating. Is “Executive” a good answer for a Staff Officer (retd)? 😎

[SLXOwft]

My question is will DCNS have to issue a notice that members of the Naval Service must not refer to RAF IT personnel as 'fat crabs'?:} Sincere apologies to any currently or formerly in light blue who are offended, but I could resist the pun no longer.

Myers-Briggs: taken it four times been told four different types.

However, academic research would appear to support those of us who think being fit improves mental effectiveness and mental health.
PE (physical exercise) determines positive biological and psychological effects that affect the brain and the cognitive functioning and promote a condition of wellbeing.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00509/full#h7

[SASless]

Seems I must be an " outlier"....I made some of my stupid decisions and judgementt calls when I was the most physically fit during my Life.

[langleybaston]

I did that free on-line test without really concentrating. Is “Executive” a good answer for a Staff Officer (retd)? 😎

Not as bad as a cringeing nonentity discovering that, at heart, he was a mix of Napoleon and Genghis Khan.

Bugger!

[RAFEngO74to09]

Other countries manage to have a 'summer' parade uniform.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/453x356/oip_xpsjrihyiyv_seozbrwmfqhafk_6989d26d0099a4036680c90c29354 6bed0570ec5.jpeg

Batco

Indeed - here's another example - ridiculously fast marching for the use of - with the number of shirt buttons to be used left entirely to personal choice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfuzY78HGHI

[The Oberon]

Indeed - here's another example - ridiculously fast marching for the use of - with the number of shirt buttons to be used left entirely to personal choice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfuzY78HGHI
Ah yes, the strange Spanish Legion. This is how a proper legion marches.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKIh1D96Ymg

[Photoplanet]

what next, troops working from home?

UAV Pilots - Why not...?

[Toadstool]

UAV Pilots - Why not...?

For a multitude of reasons, but I get the sentiment.

[papa_sierra]

Before Fitness Test.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1406x1054/seletar_d673281167de903a4c0fad540b45825d4b691d1a.jpg

[Wrathmonk]

Before Fitness Test.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1406x1054/seletar_d673281167de903a4c0fad540b45825d4b691d1a.jpg

Was that also before rationing ended….?

[langleybaston]

When I left school in 1955 the lads regarded as beefers would now be seen as normal. In the UVIth we had one fatty, two beefers and about 30 who looked like the young men in the photo.

[ORAC]

🤔🤔🤔🤔

​​​​​​​https://x.com/militarybanter/status/1709836619904074140?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


The RAF are bringing in mobile gym kit on bikes for PTIs to travel round to try and make people do phys as the RAF won't walk to the gym....

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1036x683/image_efbddd6790b441410f7826399dd32fbfa1261832.png

[ZH875]

I take it the side panels double up as mirrors, PTI, for looking at self.?

[gamecock]

99 and a choc ice please

[Uplinker]

So when there is a direct or close hit to a hangar or aircraft carrier, RAF staff will not be expected to run, and/or carry wounded colleagues or kit to safety, and fight fires or floods etc?

Or "Right, listen up; there is no transport available but we need to move now and take our kit five miles across these fields........."

A person who cannot run or fit through small gaps or climb obstacles for example, would be a liability and a danger to their colleagues, and cause extra problems. (And there is no need for service personnel to be unfit or overweight. Discipline is a basic requirement in the forces, so self discipline would be a pre-requisit, I would have thought?).

Yes, autistic and Asperger's people are very good as engineers and tech crews - (Apple actively employ many of them) - but all military personnel need to be fit and healthy.

[ORAC]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1088x726/image_f4833152368510ec55318f0cdb4f27d9d20fff8e.png

[trim it out]

Or "Right, listen up; there is no transport available but we need to move now and take our kit five miles across these fields........."
Ah yes, the infamous five miler of death.

[Zipper1]

A lack of physical fitness sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Look at me; with a jump, feet together, place!

[OvertHawk]

We Dinosaurs don't, apparently, understand.

It doesn't matter whether you are physically fit and capable so long as you identify as being physically fit and capable.

See how much easier it is in the New World?

We really do need to get on board!

(To be fair - the Military has been doing much the same for decades - remember the signs up on windows during exercises that stated "Sandbagged" Or the chair in the middle of the road with "Tank" written on it? This is much the same! :E)

[Zipper1]

We Dinosaurs don't, apparently, understand.

It doesn't matter whether you are physically fit and capable so long as you identify as being physically fit and capable.Honestly, that would kind of be funny if there weren't people who probably aren't too far off.

Ultimately, a lot of this stuff came from post-modernism, and this infiltrated the college/university system. Ultimately, there were some academics: James Lindsay (Canada), Peter Boghossian (USA), and Helen Pluckrose (UK), who intentionally submitted flawed papers for peer review in certain humanities-fields. They were able to slip a rather large number through by effectively framing it in a way that appealed to the biases of the peer-reviewers, but should have been something that a reasonable person should have been able to realize was nonsense. While they planned to publish the end-result regardless of the outcome, a journalist stumbled onto the whole matter and it eventually became known as "The Grievance Studies Affair" or "Sokol Squared" (the former is probably better known).

[Lima Juliet]

🤔🤔🤔🤔



The RAF are bringing in mobile gym kit on bikes for PTIs to travel round to try and make people do phys as the RAF won't walk to the gym....

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1036x683/image_efbddd6790b441410f7826399dd32fbfa1261832.png

That picture dates back to 2015/16 at RAF Marham when Harv Smyth became a 1-star. You can see him peddling the bike in the other picture on X.

[57mm]

I think you mean pedalling, unless he as trying to sell it......

[OvertHawk]

I think you mean pedalling, unless he as trying to sell it......

I'm pretty sure "peddling" is about right in this context!!! :E

[Lima Juliet]

I think you mean pedalling, unless he as trying to sell it......

:ok: - goddam it. I knew it didn’t look quite right! :ugh:

in other news, I see an MDP Police Officer has successfully won their case…

Sacked MoD Police officer wins sexist fitness case https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66950240

[Jobza Guddun]

That picture dates back to 2015/16 at RAF Marham when Harv Smyth became a 1-star. You can see him peddling the bike in the other picture on X.

Mmm, think that's Coningsby gym....can't tell what the sign says.