Non-type rated FO meaning

[Josh Knight]

When applying to airlines like Ryanair or Easyjet and they have an option -"Non-Type rated FO", does this mean they pay for your type-rating or how does it work?

[ShamrockF]

Not necessarily, it means they'll accept your application without a type rating. You may or may not have to pay for it yourself.

[rudestuff]

Non-type rated generally means experienced on another type but not this one. If you've never held any type rating at all then you're generally considered a cadet.

[Aviator172s]

Hi all,
Do you think there will be real chances to get into these type of airlines (EZY, RYR) without a TR and with c200h in the short term? Guess is a frequent question many of us here think about.

[rudestuff]

Absolutely. RYR are famous for taking lots of 200h pilots...

[ShamrockF]

Ryanair take them, but easyJet tend to prefer low hour cadets from certain schools (i.e. CAE Oxford, FTE Jerez)

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Hi all,
Do you think there will be real chances to get into these type of airlines (EZY, RYR) without a TR and with c200h in the short term? Guess is a frequent question many of us here think about.

As long as you have a pulse and about 30000 Euros you should be good to go. It’s much more profitable than selling airline tickets.

[Aviator172s]

How can it be legal to still have the P2F choice as a current alternative? Life is not fair, but I think authorities should forbid that.
Does this mean there is no other way to get into these airlines without paying yourself for the TR?
Do you have a salary in your first year, and a job guranteed after the TR completion?

Cheers

[ShamrockF]

How can it be legal to still have the P2F choice as a current alternative? Life is not fair, but I think authorities should forbid that.
Does this mean there is no other way to get into these airlines without paying yourself for the TR?
Do you have a salary in your first year, and a job guranteed after the TR completion?

Cheers

Salary after base training, and although it's not guaranteed, there's pretty much a job for everyone after line training. The fee includes line training.

[Aviator172s]

Salary after base training, and although it's not guaranteed, there's pretty much a job for everyone after line training. The fee includes line training.
How long does the line training take?
Is there any real chance to get a job as a FO without P2F option? Maybe in different airlines in Europe as the ones previously stated.
Thanks

[rudestuff]

How long does the line training take?
Is there any real chance to get a job as a FO without P2F option? Maybe in different airlines in Europe as the ones previously stated.
Thanks
Almost everybody gets their first job without P2F. I certainly don't know anyone who did it. Timing is everything.

[A320LGW]

This whole discussion depends on what each person deems to be "P2F".

Paying for a rating? Paying for line training? Paying for any part of your training?

The term P2F was coined some years ago to refer to these so called line training programmes. Where people would pay for their first x00 hours on a jet.

[Aviator172s]

Almost everybody gets their first job without P2F. I certainly don't know anyone who did it. Timing is everything.

Glad to read that! Hope by summer 2024 picture gets better... so many uncertainties nowadays I guess it's impossible to know it well.

[VariablePitchP]

Almost everybody gets their first job without P2F. I certainly don't know anyone who did it. Timing is everything.

Very interesting to hear, everyone I know paid for their licences. Any idea who these people where getting their licences paid for by?

[ShamrockF]

How long does the line training take?

Three months for type rating and base check.
Roughly two months for line training.

[rudestuff]

This whole discussion depends on what each person deems to be "P2F".

Paying for a rating? Paying for line training? Paying for any part of your training?

The term P2F was coined some years ago to refer to these so called line training programmes. Where people would pay for their first x00 hours on a jet.
I think it's pretty well understood that P2F generally means paying for any flying post-CPL. That's certainly my interpretation.

[Aviator172s]

I think it's pretty well understood that P2F generally means paying for any flying post-CPL. That's certainly my interpretation.

Fully agree. To my surprise, some FI have told me that they see no chance to get a job as FO without P2F, which is pretty discouraging at least... Maybe they are right, maybe they don't want you to take the risk due to having an interest (FIs who own a flight club for time building or private rent, I mean)

Anyhow, it is a real challenge to go for it, but I am on my way to it :)

[Groundloop]

I think it's pretty well understood that P2F generally means paying for any flying post-CPL. That's certainly my interpretation.

I think most people would consider paying for a type rating as NOT P2F. P2F is a term normally used for those schemes were YOU pay to fly for 100hrs+ line experience as an unpaid FO.

[rudestuff]

I think most people would consider paying for a type rating as NOT P2F. P2F is a term normally used for those schemes were YOU pay to fly for 100hrs+ line experience as an unpaid FO.
Which is basically what I said. You don't fly anything on a type rating course.

[Groundloop]

Unless there is base training involved.

[A320LGW]

I think it's pretty well understood that P2F generally means paying for any flying post-CPL. That's certainly my interpretation.

I'm not sure it actually is most people's interpretation to be honest. Pay2Fly was a line training agreement where you paid to fly block hours post type rating. It was done by airlines like small planet and germania. Very few people I know view paying for the rating as pay2fly that's for sure. I do have a type rating and no I didn't pay for it so I'm not forming any opinion influenced by my own situation. I admit I paid to fly at every point until my CPL was issued. Hence why I don't get why suddenly everyone suddenly makes a big deal when it comes to the traiing that actually makes you employable.

I'm not saying anything for or against P2F. However I think almost all pilots have paid to fly at some point unless they had all training fully funded. To interpret anything post CPL issue as pay2fly and anything before it gets a free pass is setting an arbitrary line in the sand. I'd say it's placed there to make people feel good about themselves and that they aren't "P2F".

As an aside, to the OP, the vast majority of people I know paid for their type rating. Whether it was through RYR, EZY or various other operators. Even BA in 2019 asked for £25,000 for the A320 type rating for those without experience. If an airline doesn't ask for money up front, they'll usually sign you up to a bond that reduces the longer you stay.