French Lighthouse Ops incident, 6 July 2022

[Heinrich Dubel]

Good day everyone.

Since I did not find an entry regarding this incident in the forum, I had do post it.

And since I am too low on posts I can’t publish links.

So if you please google

Phare de la Vieille helicopter

you will find the video documenting an amazingly skillfull manoeuver.

(I have an image but the system doesn’t allow that either)

[Carbon Bootprint]

Here is the subject video: https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1545077389625008129

A number of the comments appear to offer explanations for what happened, which seems to have involved a sling load.

Mods may consider moving this to Rotorheads (I checked there earlier to see if there was any discussion of this video, but I did not see any).

[zambonidriver]

What is the smoke by the skids after the recovery? Did they activate some pyro to deploy floats?

[treadigraph]

https://youtu.be/p2qWrkQWafU

[DaveReidUK]

What is the smoke by the skids after the recovery? Did they activate some pyro to deploy floats?

k8Tq_V4PSKk

[OvertHawk]

Looks to me as if that smoke is coming out of the engine exhaust - possibly because the pilot has pulled the hell out of it trying to recover.

The floats are activated by a small pyrotechnic squib but it would not produce smoke like that. Sometimes the floats are packed with chalk powder to protect against chafing and that can make a cloud of dust when you pop the floats but it does not look like that either.

I think that the engine has been massively over-torqued / over-temped and the smoke is the result of that.

Lucky / skilful recovery.

Looks as though perhaps the underslung load or the longline became snagged?

[Heinrich Dubel]

What is the smoke by the skids after the recovery? Did they activate some pyro to deploy floats?

My non-expert guess is that engine and/or transmission experience sudden – uhm – stress surge, maybe oil is burning up?

[Mostly Harmless]

1. Must have taken a crowbar to get the seat cushion out of the ass of that pilot.

2. At least one, if not two changes of underwear. required.

3. Nice save.

[heli14]

A very close call for this pilot: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10995433/Shocking-moment-helicopter-bursts-flames-nosediving-rocks-French-lighthouse.html

The helicopter was flying towards the Vielle Lighthouse, which is undergoing renovations, half a mile off France's most westerly point of Pointe du Raz in the region of Finistère.

it suddenly lurches wildly into a heart stopping ninety degree angle before diving.

It loses altitude catastrophically as the rocks close in but the pilot manages to bring it back level and avert an immediate crash.


Apologies for the source and VERY over-the-top journalism; smoke from the engine, but hardly bursts into flames. However looks a very close call none the less, and would certainly have got the pilots attention!

h14

[ShyTorque]

That “wine shear” can be very tricky, as can having your “rear capable” break.

[Pilot DAR]

Awesome save! I would not be surprised if there was a main rotor blade(s) strike on the tailboom during that pull up!

[Robbiee]

Saw the video on reddit. There's a pop, the nose dives, he pops the floats, then recovers.

Definitely a trouser soiling moment!

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Don't know the layout of the cyclic on the Ecureil, but I suspect the load-pickle and float-deploy switches are pretty close together. Unexpected pitch-down? Push every button within reach, pronto...

[Devil 49]

Floats are packed with powder lubricant. Could be the puff of 'smoke'.

[meleagertoo]

There is a noticeable emission of somethibng (dark smoke/dust?) from the skid area immediately as the excursion occurs.
The helo then enters a violent pitch-down spiral from which it (just) recovers until the floats inflate and a large amout of white vapour comes from the engine exhaust.

I can't see that white vapour as anything but engine related, it seems clear where it's coming from.

To my view the float inflation is not connected with the white vapour, I think they are two seperate issues.

The white smoke? How about a flameout (the dark puff - FOD?) initiating a desperate pilot induced pitchdown for survival, blowing the floats commendably fast, and the relight system relighting an engine full of fuel and vapour with governor wide open as a result of a panicked "up to the armpit" pull on the lever?

Skilful recovery, or sphincter-based? I'd call it a reflex action supported by an astonishingly forgiving airframe.

There. That's my speculation for the week.

[mnttech]

In treadigraph (https://www.pprune.org/members/45458-treadigraph)'s post #4 above, it appears something falls of the top of the light house just before the rapid drop??? At about the 4 second mark of the video
And as noted, it might have been during a sling operation?

[Heinrich Dubel]

In post #4 above, it appears something falls of the top of the light house just before the rapid drop??? At about the 4 second mark of the video
And as noted, it might have been during a sling operation?

It is a person standing in an elevated position. After the initial mishap the person jumps in two steps down to the platform. This was already described in the original French article, before the close-up video appeared online. In the close-up there is also some activity at the lower left corner of the outer structure of the lighthouse platform, faintly visible, but if one looks closely it appears to be the line, or part of it.

[Ascend Charlie]

You can see a loop of something flop around the pillar thing on the top corner of the lighthouse - and later see a cable of some sort from the loop? Maybe it tripped the helo around the skids to cause the nose down?

[Cornish Jack]

What is the smoke by the skids after the recovery? Did they activate some pyro to deploy floats?

The source is the exhaust, so a 'lever round your ears' manoeuvre together with a 'half-crown/sixpence' moment, a rugged powerplant and an airframe/rotor system of 'brick-built outhouse' standard. "Have the new moleskin trews ready for arrival, Jeeves !"

[Heinrich Dubel]

'half-crown/sixpence' moment

Never heard that phrase. I guess I get the meaning in this context, but where does it come from? You care to elaborate?

[meleagertoo]

UK (and others?) military slang, originally rendered as "half crown, thruppenny-bit, dustbin-lid" as I heard it.

[Heinrich Dubel]

UK (and others?) military slang, originally rendered as "half crown, thruppenny-bit, dustbin-lid" as I heard it.
Generally signifying a messed-up situation, I assume.
Thanks for replying.

[[email protected]]

Heinrich - it refers to the size of your sphincter changing during a high- situation (half-crown is bigger than threepeny bit and dustbin lid speaks for itself) ie normal, pucker, full dilation!:)

As for the incident, the way the fuselage rotates is exactly what you would expect from a sling load still attached when you thought it was released and started to move away.

The cloud of dust is certainly the floats being fired and you can see the starboard skids ones inflated - the bright orange.

Lucky guys.

[Heinrich Dubel]

Heinrich - it refers to the size of your sphincter changing during a high- situation (half-crown is bigger than threepeny bit and dustbin lid speaks for itself) ie normal, pucker, full dilation!:)

Got it. It’s an eqivalent to the US military „pucker factor“, but with reference to the actual (size difference) factor.

Thanks

[albatross]

I respectfully disagree about the “ dust cloud “ being from float deployment. It would take a heck off a lot of baby powder to create that effect. Far, far more than the amount I have seen used to repack floats. Also it does appear to emanate from the engine exhaust area.
A truly close call. Glad he made it. A little lower and he would have face-planted onto the rocks or into the water or combination of the two. Time to purchase a lotto ticket..his lucky day.

Heinrich - it refers to the size of your sphincter changing during a high- situation (half-crown is bigger than threepeny bit and dustbin lid speaks for itself) ie normal, pucker, full dilation!:)

As for the incident, the way the fuselage rotates is exactly what you would expect from a sling load still attached when you thought it was released and started to move away.

The cloud of dust is certainly the floats being fired and you can see the starboard skids ones inflated - the bright orange.

Lucky guys.

[[email protected]]

And they do generally pack them with a lot of baby powder.

Have you ever seen an exhaust spit out a plume like that without being on fire?

Look at the Stbd skid towards the end - it is bright orange indicating that the flotation bag has started to inflate - not fully in this case so perhaps the nitrogen escaped enhancing the 'dust cloud'.

[A681001]

Was Lifting frames from lighthouse lantern
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/280069

[Hughes500]

White smoke from the engine without a doubt. looks like a longline caught on the lighthouse, only way i can think of such a rapid pitch down ! Good save though. I bet there is one scrap 350 now

[albatross]

Yes I have….oil blew out of the Turbine Labyrinth seal on a 250 C20B causing a massive smoke cloud out the exhaust that would have the turned the Snowbirds green with jealousy. It. was like landing in fog. Oil pressure was at the bottom of the green when I landed, I didn’t do the cool down before shutting down. When I looked out the back there was a smoke trail for a mile behind me. Luckily I was on approach to the pad when it happened. The engineer saw it all happen.
And they do generally pack them with a lot of baby powder.

Have you ever seen an exhaust spit out a plume like that without being on fire?

Look at the Stbd skid towards the end - it is bright orange indicating that the flotation bag has started to inflate - not fully in this case so perhaps the nitrogen escaped enhancing the 'dust cloud'.

[uxb99]

I love all the debate about the smoke cloud. Perhaps the smoke is coming out of the engine because the pilot is redlining that bitch in an attempt not to splat himself on the rocks below?
Reminds me of one North Weald fighter meet when a Harvard gave out a large gout of white smoke as it passed the crowd line the commentator quipped "There goes a cylinder and a couple of valves".

[[email protected]]

A turbine seal letting go would have caused the smoke to keep on going, even after he had avoided the ground.

I've seen engines overtorqued and overtemped but never seen a temporary smoke cloud like that from grabbing a handful of collective.

You know the flotation bags are packed in powder and inflated with nitrogen and you can clearly see the flotation bags have inflated during the dive towards the water.

Seems pretty clear cut to me - if its not the powder it is the excess nitrogen (cold gas under pressure) expanding and cooling the air.

It's a single-engined helicopter, if he has buggered the engine so badly it starts to smoke, how does he recover to the hover with no smoke evident?

[megan]

Did see smoke come out the exhaust of the type when a chap gave a rather enthusiastic display at an airshow, occurred during the pitch over at the top of a very steep climb following a low level high speed flyby ie low "g".

[Cornish Jack]

Apologies, Heinrich - the explanations given above are correct ... wrinkly reversion to non-metric currency !!
Re. the smoke from the exhaust, early Lynx at Boscombe doing pitch over for speed runs used to exhibit mini versions, and one of our Whirlwinds, coming in from Valley to TH with an uncoupled (accidental) throttle linkage produced a similar, but more flame containing example ! :eek:

[Nubian]

Was Lifting frames from lighthouse lantern
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/280069

Well, I take it that they where lifting those frames down to the platform on the ''pilot'' side of the tower from the lantern. WHY would a pilot with any sense do this in tailwind?? and with the structure on the opposite side of the helicopter... Looks seriously poorly planned and worse executed. If you'd do this exercise in the opposite direction, I bet there would not be a thread.

As for the smoke. Full screen the video, playback and stop between 0:10-0:12 and you see the smoke is coming from the top halv of the helicopter. There is no parts of the floats up in that area, nitrogen lines or baby powder. So clean cut?! Nope. I bet that during this display, the aircraft had more than one over limit, and no, even a single engine that is being seriously over torqued and over sped, don't just quit and fall out of the sky.
I would put my money on that the white smoke is engine oil which due to the unnatural abrupt motion and attitude has been pushed into the exhaust via the vent-pipe from the oil reservoir, and that creates a lot of white smoke, and it would be temporary.
It looks like this was an uncontrolled cyclic input for some reason, or more likely a gust of wind from below and behind while attached to the load...

Very lucky recovery and escape by the pilot, very lucky...!

[[email protected]]

There is no room for the nitrogen bottles on the skids so they have to be somewhere in the fuselage with the lines running down the skids to the bags.

It is definitely not an uncontrolled cyclic input - it is a reaction to being pulled by a load which is still attached.

I've flown pushovers in the 350 and it definitely does not do that white smoke thing.

[212man]

I would put my money on that the white smoke is engine oil which due to the unnatural abrupt motion and attitude has been pushed into the exhaust via the vent-pipe from the oil reservoir, and that creates a lot of white smoke, and it would be temporary.

That's where my money is too and I'm not sure what people are suggesting will happen if you pull more than the rated power - i.e. what the smoke will actually be caused by? Engine certification is pretty stringent, and 3 seconds pulling a bit more than the RFM allows is not going to result in any external visual effects (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-33).

White smoke from an exhaust is either oil or unburned fuel, and I very much doubt the latter.

[[email protected]]

This what the Aviation Safety Network says in its reportThe pilot recovered the aircraft a few meters from the surface of the sea, in a maneuver that caused the release of a large cloud of smoke that was visible when the emergency floating devices are activated.
Emergency buoyancy has been triggered.

[Nubian]

There is no room for the nitrogen bottles on the skids so they have to be somewhere in the fuselage with the lines running down the skids to the bags.

It is definitely not an uncontrolled cyclic input - it is a reaction to being pulled by a load which is still attached.

I've flown pushovers in the 350 and it definitely does not do that white smoke thing.

And I know where they are located….just as a hint.

I have done a bit of rollercoasting in the 350 as well without smoke, so don’t feel bad….

The abruptness of of the manoeuvre I think is they key. I said it could look like an uncontrolled input, not necessarily that it is so. Having had the pleasure of having my electric longline release failed on me after setting down load number ### being in a good flow on short rotations with ca 1 ton of bags of gravel, and pulling collective on instinct as I could “see” the straps fall of the remote hook, I can tell you how a snagged longline feels. I did not produce any smoke, nor was the machine reaching any over limit parameters, I didn’t pop the floats, didn’t end up almost hitting the ground, but we confirmed that the shoulder harness worked as advertised, so did the belly release and we had a brake to chat with the technicians on how to proceed.

Edit
Missed your reference to the Wikipedia of accident reporting. I read a lot of those listings, but as whoever can contribute their more or less accurate information, I take the info with a slight pinch of salt. In this case, a rather large one…..reading the rest on ASN. This info might come from this very thread in the first place, like the media has been collecting “facts” before…

[[email protected]]

So explain exactly how so much oil - that is a lot of smoke - gets from the reservoir to the exhaust, it is only a breather pipe after all.

[megan]

I've flown pushovers in the 350 and it definitely does not do that white smoke thingCrab, I can assure you on this occasion it did, a Squirrel some decades ago, not great plumes as in the video though, having viewed the event I made a point of examining the exhaust and noticed the breather and assumed that may have been the source, pilot was reputed to have trashed an airframe of another type from his vigorous displays.

[[email protected]]

Megan - I'm not saying some oil doesn't get to the exhaust, the vent is designed to push excess oil vapour out into it to be burnt off - but that amount of smoke would need a huge amount of oil (not just vapour) to be pushed out and the amount of negative g required to do that just doesn't seem evident from that video.

[212man]

Edit
Missed your reference to the Wikipedia of accident reporting. I read a lot of those listings, but as whoever can contribute their more or less accurate information, I take the info with a slight pinch of salt. In this case, a rather large one…..reading the rest on ASN. This info might come from this very thread in the first place, like the media has been collecting “facts” before…
Quite - not always recognised. I have contributed to one entry directly, and seen narrative in the same incident that came from a post I made on Pprune!

Revision history:
Date/time Contributor Updates 06-Jul-2022 22:13 Iceman 29
Added 06-Jul-2022 22:15 Iceman 29
Updated [Embed code] 06-Jul-2022 22:24 Iceman 29
Updated [Narrative] 07-Jul-2022 06:42 SMue Updated
[Narrative] 07-Jul-2022 06:55 harro
Updated [Category] 07-Jul-2022 07:49 RobertMB
Updated [Time, Damage, Narrative] 07-Jul-2022 14:43 Iceman 29
Updated [Source, Embed code, Narrative] 07-Jul-2022 21:00 Iceman 29
Updated [Source, Narrative] 07-Jul-2022 22:21 Aerossurance Updated [Nature]
Corrections or additions? ... Edit this accident description (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/web_db_edit.php?id=280069)


The video of the AS350 ditching into the East River in 2018, does not show the same evidence of 'chalk' after float deployment.

[meleagertoo]

It would take sackfulls of chalk to make a cloud as big as that, apart from which it is plain to see that it is streaming from the exhaust, not just appeared in one big puff from underneath the fuselage.
How much white smoke do you get in a flameout relit by the auto-igniter? Airflow into the intake must have been pretty chaotic at the start of that manoeuvre. I'd guess there would be some?

[Nescafe]

Do we have a new pope?

[pilotmike]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
+1 to the above (meleagertoo). And to all the others who realised it was engine related and emitted from the exhaust.

It couldn't possibly have originated at the floats then magically be jetted directly out of the exhaust!

[Nubian]

So explain exactly how so much oil - that is a lot of smoke - gets from the reservoir to the exhaust, it is only a breather pipe after all.

Just the typical reply from you when your bias is questioned.

As you ask this way, I’ll ask you to explain exactly how much powder needed for this cloud to form, or how much nitrogen would be needed? And more importantly how it can escape the system and yet fill the floats normally?

As to how much oil needed, I know that a very small amount of oil in/on the exhaust produce lots of smoke. I lost about 4 quarts of oil when a oil cooler blew in my early days in a R22. Only a few ml’s in the landing phase, but as it was dripping onto the exhaust pipe it produced quite an impressive amount of smoke, we are talking about drops.

But hey, you’re the expert…..!

[Nubian]

How much white smoke do you get in a flameout relit by the auto-igniter? Airflow into the intake must have been pretty chaotic at the start of that manoeuvre. I'd guess there would be some?

In order to have auto-relight in the B3, you need to recycle the startswitch and even the newest model require 1000ft Agl to do it safely, the old models 2000ft. And looking at the video, I’d like to shake the pilots hand, capable to recycle that switch during this manoeuvre….. let me know where I can find him, maybe in the UK?!🤔

[gipsymagpie]

Looks like a labyrinth seal failure - briefly - had one on another aircraft and it's produces a massive white cloud. I can imagine the abrupt change in power could reduce the engine internal pressure and defeat the labyrinth seal briefly allow pressurised oil straight into the exhaust.

[helispotter]

A lot of debate over the source of the smoke (or whatever), but I join the crowd who consider it to be from the exhaust (for whatever reason). The floats inflate a fair bit afterwards, first starboard side and then (still later) port side. I remember some footage on YouTube years back of a US media helicopter making an emergency landing in a carpark while being filmed by another helo. It also released a hell of a lot of smoke, but not just for such a short time, rather all the way to the ground and after safe touchdown. The motion of the helicopter as it descends in this case looks somewhat irregular almost as if it is being acted on by a sling line under tension at some stages?? I have seen RC helicopters 'thrown around" like this, but never realised a full sized helicopter could also react this swiftly.

[[email protected]]

But hey, you’re the expert…..! rather a snarky reply but if most think it is oil in the exhaust then I'll just agree to disagree until someone can explain how a lot of oil gets there and for only a short period before returning to 'normal' running..

I suggested the float gear and the nitrogen as a possible explanation without analysing the video frame by frame - it is also possible it was neither that nor the oil in the exhaust.

[albatross]

JOKE
“It should be obvious to all that what we are witnessing is the first known successful operational deployment of. the secret “Auto Smoke Crash Position Indicator” ASCPI. (TM protected, patent pending)
FROM the RFM ASCPI Supplement : “Anytime the system detects the following conditions : more than -1.5 G and a attitude of +75 Degree’s nose down and a VSI of -1000 FPM at less than 120 ft. Rad Alt, Engine oil is injected into the exhaust by the ASCPI system. This creates a large smoke cloud to indicate a Position Datum Point at which to initiate Recovery Operations.
If the float system is “Armed” for overwater operations activation of the ASCPI will also activate float deployment thus aiding in debris recovery.”
JOKE OVER.

I’m just glad nobody was killed or seriously injured during this event.

[Rotorbee]

I watched it a bit closer. The smoke starts while descending, the floats pop while climbing again. Quite a bit of time in between. The smoke stopped pretty quickly after regaining a normal attitude. The smoke looks like it is above the tail boom. If that much smoke would be produced by popping the floats, we would never have tested them inside the hangar. My bet is on the engine, not the floats. And one does not need a lot of oil to produce a lot of smoke.
In that situation I can see myself easily popping the floats, just in case.

[retoocs]

Here's the first frame when the smoke appears.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/335x233/smoke_efe1deb5857897a2b567ac90365889250825e5ad.jpg

The smoke ending, looks like coming from the exhaust.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/401x229/smoke2_54002fa69dee1697d2d3d4687c13bd79855de643.jpg

First frame of the floats inflating.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/496x306/smoke3_d4f7977bf06f4f81abc408f14864868100693a92.jpg

[Nubian]

rather a snarky reply but if most think it is oil in the exhaust then I'll just agree to disagree until someone can explain how a lot of oil gets there and for only a short period before returning to 'normal' running..

I suggested the float gear and the nitrogen as a possible explanation without analysing the video frame by frame - it is also possible it was neither that nor the oil in the exhaust.


Snarky or not, I'll try to explain.


There is always some pressure in the return oil to the tank, which is necessary to vent off from the reservoir to prevent pressure increase in the system which in turn would push the oil through the engine where it will be burned and empty your reservoir in a fairly short time (which a clogged breather line will do)

As you have air in the top part of the reservoir in normal conditions, only the vapours are being vented off. An abrupt uncontrolled manoeuvre like in the video (possible caused by a pull from the external load), the oil will end up in the top of the tank where the breather line is attached and the pressure in the return will push the oil out instead of the vapours.
As the manoeuvre is back to normal with positive G's, the oil stop being vented overboard and the smokes stops..... as I said earlier, it does not need to be a lot of oil to produce this amount of smoke.

[meleagertoo]

Solved!

The Chemtrails reservoir self-void function deployed as the computer only assessed a crash as 'likely'.
It's clear that it didn't assess the crash risk as 'imminent' or as we all know the pyro-charge would have fired to incinerate the agent which creates a spectacular fireball.

Phew! Got away with it agan!

[Bksmithca]

Solved!

The Chemtrails reservoir self-void function deployed as the computer only assessed a crash as 'likely'.
It's clear that it didn't assess the crash risk as 'imminent' or as we all know the pyro-charge would have fired to incinerate the agent which creates a spectacular fireball.

Phew! Got away with it agan!
So Meleagertoo, your basicly suggesting that the helicopter sh** itself

[[email protected]]

OK OK I give in..........

[bluesafari]

I think you will find that the 'puff of smoke' is talcum powder used in packing the floats, just blew away when the floats were 'popped'

[gipsymagpie]

I think you will find that the 'puff of smoke' is talcum powder used in packing the floats, just blew away when the floats were 'popped'
This has been discussed already, the smoke clearly comes from the exhaust

[pilotmike]

I think you will find that the 'puff of smoke' is talcum powder used in packing the floats, just blew away when the floats were 'popped'
"I think you will find that...." sounds very patronising. However, that said.....

I think you'll find, if you look more carefully at the video, and take into account all the wise information from others who apparently understand the issue better than you, that it was from the engine / exhaust, not talcum powder. I am unaware of any engines that run on talcum powder.

[[email protected]]

However, there is no definitive answer since we weren't there and don't have any evidence to prove or disprove any assertions - probability would suggest oil in the exhaust but that is only a slightly more educated guess than the floats/powder/nitrogen guess

[Rotorbee]

Crab, I am glad you are back to your old self. After the post were you gave in I almost wanted to write: Who are you and what have you done with the real crab. Thank god the world is normal again.
Anyway, have any of your talcum powder fans ever changed diapers on a real baby? That stuff does not act as a smoke cloud and you would need kilos of the stuff and something that blows it around to create some sort of cloud (think powder fire extinguisher). Believe me, I have tried to make clouds out of any powder available (my mother wasn't amused) through all my childhood. It never looked really like a cloud.
The nitrogen isn't an option to blow the talcum like in the video, because it flows INTO the floats. Outside it wouldn't help a lot.
Please watch the following video. It's of a A119 and you will see there is nowhere enough "smoke". And with the wind blowing and the airflow over it, the powder just blows away and disappears in no time, as you can see in the lighthouse video when the floats finally pop. Well you can't see anything and that's the whole point. BTW, the A119 floats pop way faster than the H125 one's.
Video A119

[[email protected]]

Rotorbee - thanks for your concern :ok:

However, your video clearly shows a cloud of powder as the floats inflate - discuss.

Equally there is always overpressure from the nitrogen bottles to ensure a rapid inflation - the excess is vented and cold nitrogen escaping and expanding into warm moist air will create a cloud.

Yes, it probably is still oil but I will bow to public opinion.

[megan]

Could be talcum powder out of the exhaust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHsjomQ2rvs

[Encyclo]

All explained here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51RQVjUVn7A

Fly Safe, Always :ok:

[Rotorbee]

Ok, we know now what happened, but the smoke was not mentioned. So, we can go on.
Yes crab, there is baby powder in this video, but it is way less than the smoke that came from that helicopter in the original video.
Common, don't give up to the public opinion. Often public opinion is way off from the truth. Incident analysis is not a democratic process.

[Agile]

As I reviewed this video below from a TV heli in LA
it really looks like oil smoke, dense and white
the talc power smoke was difuse and grey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwC_F3VMiFE

[krypton_john]

It was actually brown "smoke" coming out of the pilot's arse, that appears white because of the sun reflecting of droplets of moisture in said brown "smoke"

[[email protected]]

As I reviewed this video below from a TV heli in LA
it really looks like oil smoke, dense and white
the talc power smoke was difuse and grey But that smoke in the LA video isn't coming from the exhaust, even though it looks from some angles that it is. It is pouring out of the engine bay.

And it isn't there for a couple of seconds either - just sayin':)

[Nubian]

But that smoke in the LA video isn't coming from the exhaust, even though it looks from some angles that it is. It is pouring out of the engine bay.

And it isn't there for a couple of seconds either - just sayin':)

Flogging a dead horse Crab!
The video is for indication as to what an oil-leak on a hot engine looks like.
I’ve tried to explain to you how this can happen on a healthy machine without a leak, but you choose to ignore that.
The smoke in the video brings back memories as it is very similar to what I experienced with the R22, and I repeat, it was only drops onto the hot exhaust that produced my cloud.

You, on the other hand haven’t answered my questions.

By the way, ASN has been edited I can see. Wonder why?!

[[email protected]]

Rather an aggressive reply again Nubian, sadly all too common on social media nowadays.

I don't have my AS 350 notes to hand but ISTR there is a centrifugal filter in the scavenge side of the oil system that separates the returning oil and only passes excess vapour to the exhaust via a pipe which vents into the exhaust stream and not onto the exhaust itself - I find it unlikely that a glob of neat oil could find its way back through that system to the exhaust.

I'm quite content what an oil leak on a hot engine looks like - are you sure that LA video isn't a hyd leak or a fire?

As to your question - there is powder in the bags when packed - Rotorbees video clearly shows that. Is there enough to create such a big cloud? Maybe not but if excess was put in by error it might be possible.

As I mentioned above, there is always overpressure from the nitrogen bottles to ensure a rapid inflation - that overpressure has to go somewhere - you can hear it escaping from vents after inflation (the same happens on survival dinghies).

There may even have been a leak in the feed from the bottles to the bags.

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As to the ASN - I refer you to your previous comment Edit
Missed your reference to the Wikipedia of accident reporting. I read a lot of those listings, but as whoever can contribute their more or less accurate information, I take the info with a slight pinch of salt. In this case, a rather large one…..reading the rest on ASN. This info might come from this very thread in the first place, like the media has been collecting “facts” before…

[Rotorbee]

As I mentioned above, there is always overpressure from the nitrogen bottles to ensure a rapid inflation - that overpressure has to go somewhere - you can hear it escaping from vents after inflation (the same happens on survival dinghies).
The smoke came before inflation ... do I have to say more? And before any venting could happen. Do I have to say even more?
The nitrogen is stored under pressure in this case, not as a liquid. As a liquid you don't store it under pressure. You definitely don't want liquid nitrogen flowing into rubber bags and I am not even talking about valves and seals. That would not end well. Even if it vents out, you may see a bit of fog in the stream of nitrogen, because vapour in the air will condense around the now cooler nitrogen, but not like that. Liquid nitrogen boils at 77K. You will have a hard time to cool nitrogen to 77K only by expanding it. The pressure in the bottle would be way more than necessary, given the size of the bottles, and very very dangerous.

[Nubian]

Rather an aggressive reply again Nubian, sadly all too common on social media nowadays.

I find it unlikely that a glob of neat oil could find its way back through that system to the exhaust.

Pretty thin skinned then Crab, if you take my last post as aggressive. I’ll take that into considerations later.

The neat oil you’re finding unlikely to find its way back, will be coming from the reservoir as it circulates back. In a low G/negative G situation there is a couple og litres pushed to the top of the tank, and the vent line has no valve restricting flow out to the exhaust pipe.

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Not thin skinned, I just dislike rudeness.

I don't think you can assume there was negative g, he pushed forward sure, but the reduction in g would have been very little - note that the smoke comes during the recovery as he pulls power - no negative there

[Rotorbee]

Crab, he did not push forward, he was pulled by the line. In that case all bets are off, because that wasn't aerodynamics alone. That yank at the helicopter could have caused the oil flow into the exhaust. And give it a bit of time to evaporate. Fire would have been faster for sure, but a gush of oil might take a while.

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Crab, he did not push forward, he was pulled by the line. Agreed but he was moving very slowly and the aircraft almost pivots in space - is that enough to push oil around in such a manner as to get it to the exhaust? I don't know.

He then keeps the nose down to gain airspeed before pulling out hard which is where the smoke appears - co-incidentally or not with the inflation of the floats.

We are still speculating about the cause simply from the video which may or may not be definitive.

[Rotorbee]

Crab, how the helicopter moved in space was entirely defined by the line until it broke. Since we do not know when that happened, we can only speculate. From what I see, I suppose he was pushed forward and to the side by the gust and then the line got stretched and that what caused it to pitch over and roll. The turning point would be the belly hook (more or less). That would make the helicopter go nose down without loosing much of altitude. The engine would be quite far from the turning point, moving in an arc and therefore could get enough minus g's for the oil to flow to the vent. At that moment the line probably broke, when the load was pulled to the railing. Unfortunately injuring a person. All that time the pilot probably tried to stop the movement with aft and left cyclic - not much else he could do - which would explain the pretty quick recovery.
That's my theory.
But in a few short years, there will be a report.
And right now the French have a new hero. Best helicopter pilot ever. No other country makes them like that. And only a French helicopter could make it. According to the French video, the pilot was cold blooded. An alien lizard person probably. On an exchange tour.

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Rotorbee - I think your analysis and theory are viable :ok: As you say the report will come along at some stage.

And right now the French have a new hero. Best helicopter pilot ever. No other country makes them like that. And only a French helicopter could make it. According to the French video, the pilot was cold blooded. An alien lizard person probably. On an exchange tour. that did make me chuckle:):ok:

[Nubian]

That yank at the helicopter could have caused the oil flow into the exhaust. And give it a bit of time to evaporate. Fire would have been faster for sure, but a gush of oil might take a while.

My point all along…