Huey creating its own forest LZ in Vietnam. link to story?

[Reely340]

There was a Beautiful story about an unarmed Huey rescuing some 20 servicemen by creating an LZ via trimming adjacent trees, while under attack in 'nam.

anyone got a link?

[SASless]

That was not an uncommon event.

I am thinking the particular video you are seeking can be found at the History Channel.

[Reely340]

thx for the pointer! 👍
found it! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8fwkAuM1fI
Tom Baca Larry Liss were the Key Search terms

[MightyGem]

It comes up on the Smithsonian Channel now and then.

[ericferret]

There was a Beautiful story about an unarmed Huey rescuing some 20 servicemen by creating an LZ via trimming adjacent trees, while under attack in 'nam.

anyone got a link?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/helicopter-missions-vietnam-firefight-179939835/

[Reely340]

fine link, excellent read, too!

[Robbo Jock]

I'm UK based, those links seem to be broken for me.
But, vaguely related, I remember seeing a programme a number of years ago where a Vietnam Special Forces team was reunited with the Huey crew that extracted them from a very hairy situation, which involved trimming a large number of trees on the way out. Of particular note (to me) was the pilot commenting that he didn't feel that anyone was shooting at him. One of the SF guys said "yes, that's because they were aiming at you"

[NutLoose]

One of the Boeing instructors at Odi said Chinooks in Vietnam would carry an underslung bomb if the needed to form a clearing in trees to get into. One of the visiting US Chinooks demonstrated crunching the fuselage down into the trees so the rotors were just skimming the top.

[SASless]

The Annual Meeting of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association (VHPA) is an interesting time where a lot of us gather to renew old friendships, tell a few truths (no lies ever get told) but each telling of a story our flying skills get better....the danger gets worse...the hostile fire more accurate and our derring-do magnifies....along with our youthful handsomeness we never lost.

In past years we used to remind ourselves we could still drink too much....laugh too loud...and very much enjoy being Combat Helicopter Pilots with all that it means.

During the Convention in Nashville, Tennessee....I and some friends happened to be standing on the Mezzanine looking down on the Lobby Bar.....that was filled with lots of portly, balding, bespectacled ofd geezers....all hugging and laughing....arms around shoulders...and talking like deaf persons do after they have a skinful of beer.

I suggested to my friends....that a stranger not knowing what a group we were would probably think they had wandered into a Pride gathering for old guys by mistake.

What I thought looking at those wonderful Men....with their hands making aircraft like maneuvers ....was the amazing things they had done in their younger years that few fully outside the military understood.

We did those things as a matter of fact and show it merely as just doing our job.

Our training and doctrine taught us that the Soldiers on the ground were our reason for being.....if they called...we went and they knew we would come if called.

We paid a terrible price living up to that.

My greatest honor in life has been being allowed to serve. alongside the Soldiers I did....and it is rewarding to see our story being told.

Joe Galloway called us "Gods Own Lunatics"......and I suppose we were at some time to someone that was in a very bad way....and we showed up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJ7OGnOXHQ

[megan]

Amen SAS. My introduction was the death of WO1 Terry Mezera who was a slick driver. A US adviser to the ARVN had been wounded in a fire fight on one of the Seven Sister mountains on the Cambodian border and required a medevac, the professional medevac team turned down the mission for what ever reason so Terry and crew went. Came to the hover on the mountain side only to come under fire, lost the hydraulics and rolled down the mountain side, coming to rest inverted. Crew managed to exit but Terry was left hanging in his straps with a bullet wound to the chest, crew unable to extricate him due to being under heavy fire and Terry succumbed to his wound after 45 minutes. The US adviser then spent until mid night calling in arty and passed away at midnight. Painful to listen to on the ops radio, by dawn Charlie had slunk away. Vale Terry.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1320x2000/terry_193c3f6a99021369bcad4614a1b2e7d2797d01f3.png

[SASless]

https://www.vhpa.org/KIA/K11359.HTM

Stu Rawlinson was his Copilot that day.....who I later knew at Bristow Helicopters.

For those not familiar with the 135th Assault Helicopter Unit.....it was a US Army Huey unit made up of Australians and Americans.....and was amongst the best Units in Vietnam.

A close friend, and American pilot was shot in the shoulder and had to retire medically due to his wound's permanently limiting the use of that arm.

Mezera started his tour on 2 April 70.....I started my second Tour on 1 April 70....and I was medically evacuated after my own claim to flame in mid-June.

We never forget those guys.


Small World eh, Megan?

[megan]

Hi SAS, Stu was not his copilot, the VHPA has got that part of the story wrong, Stu was flying in the area on a hash & trash and provided support in some capacity.

[Accidental Pilot]

I know it's ubiquitous but in case anyone doesn't know, this (or a story very like it) story is told in Chickenhawk, which is what I suspect Reely340 is referring to.

[ericferret]

I googled for the link in the U.K. So it should work.

[SASless]

Megan,

If you will send me the details by PM.....I will pass that along to the VHPA for correction.

The VHPA has tried hard to build as accurate a database as they can....but there are errors to be found.

Some of the After Action Reports filed following events like this left a lot to be desired....and of course there was the usual problems involved in sorting out Military Records as some were lost, destroyed, or misplaced.

[skridlov]

I read and enjoyed "Chickenhawk" decades ago. I was always a bit suspicious that some of the escapades recounted may have been exaggerated to an extent. I'd be interested to have the opinion of those who are in a position to know.

[SASless]

A friend who did his first tour in Vietnam flying for the 48th Assault Helicopter Company and shared a cockpit with the author of "Chickenhawk" on occasions told me his reading of the book convinced him that a lot of the stories were borrowed from those who actually experienced them.

My friend did not care much for the Author as evidenced by his refusal to even acknowledge the Author's presence when they encountered one another.

I was not present during their time together in the Blue Stars so I cannot vouch for the accuracy or reasons for the bad blood between them.

My friend did retire as a CW4 Master Aviator and was always promoted ahead of his Peers so I know him to be an excellent Officer and Aviator.

The other guy....the only opinion I have of him is how his post Army life went for him as he encountered some problems with Law Enforcement on a couple of occasions.

Problems he reports in his book.

There was an old saying...."What is the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale? A War Story starts off with "Now this ain't no ****"....and a Fairy Tale starts off with "Once upon a time".

But to give him credit....he tells a good story and it is fairly accurate in the kinds of things he talks about and no matter if it was his own experiences or borrowed experiences.....they ring true.

[uxb99]

I read and enjoyed "Chickenhawk" decades ago. I was always a bit suspicious that some of the escapades recounted may have been exaggerated to an extent. I'd be interested to have the opinion of those who are in a position to know.
Mike Durant's bookIn The Company Of Heroesdetails his experience in Somalia (Black Hawk Down) is a good read.

[wrench1]

I was not present during their time together in the Blue Stars so I cannot vouch for the accuracy or reasons for the bad blood between them..
I worked with several pilots that flew with or were in the same unit as the author that said the same about the his stories. Embellishment was not the word used when discussing the author's recollections.

[jimf671]

thx for the pointer! 👍
found it! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8fwkAuM1fI
Tom Baca Larry Liss were the Key Search terms

UK viewers use American VPN location!

[Bravo73]

UK viewers use American VPN location!

The irony being that is a UK programme!

[NutLoose]

Mike Durant's bookIn The Company Of Heroesdetails his experience in Somalia (Black Hawk Down) is a good read.

as is

https://www.popasmoke.com/stories/ (https://www.popasmoke.com)

[megan]

If you will send me the details by PM.....I will pass that along to the VHPA for correction.

The VHPA has tried hard to build as accurate a database as they can....but there are errors to be found.I don't think the VHPA is much interested in accuracy SAS, had a chap erroneously stating he served with our unit on the VHPA site, I sent VHPA a message correcting, but no reply. Even posted a question regarding him here.

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/642990-air-logistics-clive-clive-o-h-collins.html?highlight=collins

Have sent Stu a message asking him to elaborate.

Re "Chikenhawk": Thought it an accurate account of typical events that took place, though not all to one chap, extremely good well written book I thought.

[212man]

I don't think the VHPA is much interested in accuracy SAS, had a chap erroneously stating he served with our unit on the VHPA site, I sent VHPA a message correcting, but no reply. Even posted a question regarding him here.

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/642990-air-logistics-clive-clive-o-h-collins.html?highlight=collins

Have sent Stu a message asking him to elaborate.

Re "Chikenhawk": Thought it an accurate account of typical events that took place, though not all to one chap, extremely good well written book I thought.

yes - remember it well. Had Walt written all over it.

[SASless]

Megan,

I rummaged around in the VHPA website....found the information you provided.

When I went to the Class Photos for 20-21 and 70-25....I did not see Collins mentioned in the class photos that are on file.

That does not confirm or deny he was a member of those Classes as there might not be a Photo for his Platoon on file.

I did find his Bio to be very interesting.

I will reach out to a friend who spent his entire civilian career with Air Log and was a very senior Training Captain.....and see if he can help in this.

After I make contact with him I shall post the results of our conversation.

The Obit contents was submitted by someone upon his death.

If he was a long time member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post....my suspicion is if he was not authentic he would have been rumbled by the members of that Post.

In order to be a member of the VFW....one must provide a copy of DOD Form DD-214 which is your Discharge Document that contains entries that depict your service in the Military and that one document alone confirms the details of your service to include Unit Assignment, Duties, Ranks, type of Discharge, dates of service.....and lots more.

His Class numbers are those of Warrant Officer Classes....and in those days you graduated from Flight School as a WO-1 and one year later you moved up a notch to Chief Warrant Officer 2 (CW2).

I could not find a web page for the 135th that has any list of Unit Members.

I did find this while doing a search....and it just confirms the VHPA Died After Tour (DAT) entry as they are identical.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/226261216/clive-herbert-collins

[212man]

I did find his Bio to be very interesting
Some observations.......

"London University", does not really exist. It's a complex history, but basically there are a number of different institutions that award 'University of London degrees', and typically, if asked, an alumnus would say they went to one of those institutions by name. e.g. Kings College (London), Imperial College, Queen Mary's College etc.

"He joined the British Army from 1955 to 1957, where he served his country honorably earning the British General Service Medal and Suez Medal." There is no official 'Suez Medal'. The GSM for service in the Suez (or clasp for existing GSM holders) was awarded retrospectively in the early 2000s, following active lobbying by campaigners and Members of Parliament. It is only awarded to those who served in the Canal Zone from 1951-1954, so the dates do not work either.

"Clive, a true patriot, volunteered for the United States Army in 1969 and served for 11 years, including a tour in Vietnam as a Helicopter Pilot ". A non-US National can only join the US Military as an enlisted serviceman - not as a Warrant or Commissioned officer.

[SASless]

Generally, one enlisted in the US Army as a Private (pay grade E-1). attended Basic Infantry Training (BCT) at Fort Polk, Louisiana (nearest BCT site to Fort Wolters, Texas), perhaps got promoted to the knightly rank of Prvate E-2, then proceeded to Preflight and Primary Flight Training at Fort Wolters, Texas. Upon beginning the Warrant Officer Flight Training one was promoted to Specialist E-5 (Temporary) for the duration of Flight training.

One member of my Class was Irish.. and another was a Canadian.

Upon completion of flight training we were issued a Warrant by the Secretary of the Army and the Rank of Warrant Officer One (W-1). One year later....we were promoted to Chief Warrant Officer (CW-2).

We had to be Officers to be Pilots....so we got promoted to W-1 one day...and the next day we received our Wings and Orders designating us as Army Aviators.

The Warrant Officer concept was used as the Army was limited by Congress to a certain fixed number of Officers and to meet the manning requirements of Army Aviation for Pilots....there was no way to do that had we been Commissioned Officers.

Warrant Officers In the US Military are Officers....not Enlisted Troops and fall between the Senior NCO ranks and the lowest Commissioned Officer Rank.

Woe be it if a brand new 2nd Lieutenant tries to pull rank on a CW4 (or now CW-5).

[212man]

Maybe they were dual nationals - quite possible with those nationalities and potential US ties? Or, maybe the rules were different then. Certainly for quite some time (not the first time I checked) a non-national cannot be promoted above the enlisted ranks.

[SASless]

Ever hear of Rick Rescorla?

He enlisted in the US Army then attended Officer Candidate School and became a Commissioned Officer, fought at the Ia Drang with the Seventh Nav under Colonel Hal Moore....and did not receive his US Citizenship until AFTER his Combat Tour in Vietnam....retired as a Colonel and died on 9-11 getting his fellow Morgan Stanley employees out of the World Trade Center.

https://militaryhallofhonor.com/honoree-record.php?id=2032

[m39462]

Certainly for quite some time (not the first time I checked) a non-national cannot be promoted above the enlisted ranks.
According to the enlistment site goarmy.com the current rule is that permanent US residents (Green Card holders) are eligible to be enlisted soldiers or officers.

[megan]

A non-US National can only join the US Military as an enlisted serviceman - not as a Warrant or Commissioned officer.The guy in question was a member of the US Army, have a copy of the 1972 US Army Register, he joined up 29 Apr 69, made WO1 24 Aug 70, made temp CW2 20 Aug 71, just don't know where he served, it certainly wasn't with my unit as he states.