View Full Version : UH1-B Fatal West Virginia 6/22
havoc
23rd Jun 2022, 00:55
6 dead in southern W.Va. helicopter crash (wsaz.com) (https://www.wsaz.com/2022/06/22/crews-scene-helicopter-crash-southern-wva/)
6 dead in southern W.Va. helicopter crash
LOGAN COUNTY, W.Va. (WSAZ) - Ray Bryant, the Chief of Operations for the Logan Emergency Management Authority, confirms six people have died in a helicopter crash Wednesday evening.
The identities of the victims haven’t been confirmed, but Bryant says the passengers were not local.
He says the helicopter was a Vietnam-era Huey based out of the Logan airport and was used for tourism flights.
Bryant says at this time it’s not confirmed exactly what went wrong during the flight. The helicopter crashed onto state Route 17 along Blair Mountain. Bryant says it was on fire when crews arrived at the scene, and firefighters put the fire out.
FAA officials report the Bell UH-1B model went down near state Route 17. That’s in the Kelly Mountain area.
The Logan County Sheriff’s Department had confirmed a crash earlier. According to the Logan County Office of Emergency Management, state Route 17 is closed in that area. There is no word on when it will reopen.
The FAA reports that the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will be in charge of the crash investigation. Online resources show that the Bell UH-1B helicopter is nicknamed the “Huey” and was extensively used during military operations, including in the Vietnam War.
Additional details are unavailable, but we have crews at the scene.
The road is expected to remain closed for at least 24 hours.
Bryant says one of the owners of the helicopter showed up at the scene after the crash.
The National Highway Safety and Transportation Board and FAA are scene.
SASless
23rd Jun 2022, 13:48
Another news article which references a Witness statement in addition to the information posted by Havoc.
Very sad day!
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/22/us/helicopter-crash-west-virginia-route-17/index.html
old-timer
23rd Jun 2022, 23:16
That is very sad news, kindest thoughts with family & loved ones
megan
25th Jun 2022, 00:52
From AvwebAn ex-military Bell UH-1B “Huey” helicopter crashed yesterday evening (June 22) by a rural roadside near its home base at Logan County Airport (code 6L4) in West Virginia. All six on board were killed. Few details are available, but local law enforcement reported that the cockpit and cabin were consumed by post-crash fire.According to FAA records, the helicopter, N98F, is registered to a local cardiologist. It was operated by maintenance provider Marpat Aviation based at Logan County Airport. The veteran helicopter was participating in this week’s 7th Annual Huey Reunion, and the Marpat website offered 30-minute rides, including the chance to operate the controls, for fuel donations. Mike Holbrook, owner of Marpat, declined to comment to AVweb, referring questions to the NTSB. A woman who witnessed the crash told television reporters she saw what she presumed to be fuel streaming from the cabin and tried to approach the burning helicopter to help, but the intense heat forced her to retreat.
According to the Marpat website description, the UH-1B was likely the oldest Huey still flying, the 488th of more than 10,000 built. It was manufactured in 1962, even before the original military designation changed from HU-1 (thus, the “Huey” nickname) to UH-1 when the 932nd was delivered from the factory.
N89F, then bearing the military serial number 62-01968, served in Vinh Long, Vietnam, with the 114th Assault Helicopter Company, the “Knights of the Sky,” and bore the nose-art “Miss Fit.” Its wartime duties included gunship, troop carrier and medevac service. After being returned to the U.S. in 1971, it subsequently served in the National Guard before working as an agricultural aircraft, firefighter and before the cameras of several feature films, including “Die Hard,” “The Rock” and “Broken Arrow.”
Carbon Bootprint
25th Jun 2022, 17:44
Thanks for that, Megan. Such a tragic end for such a distinguished vintage warbird. Best condolences to all.
SASless
27th Jun 2022, 00:26
Names of the Victims.....
https://wvmetronews.com/2022/06/25/names-of-helicopter-crash-victims-released-2-of-6-victims-from-west-virginia/?fbclid=IwAR1OIGdSAnvh2k3B8-81sAcRrCx6VLKHB_kpXMxCsBXv_yaZ3J2TzbJU-mU
Local TV segment about Sandhoff.
https://www.wral.com/durham-man-killed-in-helicopter-crash/20348521/
Fargo Boyle
3rd Jul 2022, 15:30
Don't know how credible this link is but an interesting if depressing view of the accident and operator
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QD-FgIsuhiE
212man
3rd Jul 2022, 15:56
Don't know how credible this link is but an interesting if depressing view of the accident and operator
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QD-FgIsuhiE
No big surprises there! Cause or MO
Just missing the Stetsons and spurs..........I think the cardiologist owner is about to get his ass sued off.
roscoe1
3rd Jul 2022, 18:01
So many red flags on this one. It will undoubtedly keep the lawyers busy for years and perhaps rightfully so for a change. I wonder if you walked up and said I'd like a ride but really can't make a "donation" if you would have gotten off the ground. That the FAA says they had no idea these perople were doing this for 7 years or so is a little hard to take. I wonder if that statement would stand up in court under oath. They may as well have said " well, I guess we weren't doing our job of promoting safe civil aviation for some time now".
Sometimes 'light-touch' regulation really doesn't work.
Big Pistons Forever
3rd Jul 2022, 18:44
FAA has been under resourced for many years. I am sure there were lots of people at the airport who knew what was going on, anyone of whom could have phoned the FSDO. The aviation community has to take responsibility for reporting something so obviously haywire. Sadly rogue operators like this are putting the entire historic aircraft operating policy framework under intense scrutiny. The easy thing for the FAA to do is just shut everyone down. If that happens don't just blame the regulator, everyone who kept silent when they knew things were going off the rail owns a piece of it too....
SASless
3rd Jul 2022, 19:21
So....I am supposed to believe the FAA FSDO in Charleston WV.....about 60 miles from Logan WV where this helicopter was based...had no idea that Helicopter Operation existed, that the FAA did not know they were giving rides, and that the operation did not have ANY authorization to conduct the operations it was doing.....did I get that right?
Information guides for Logan Airport show it is owned and operated by the County Government and has six airplanes and two helicopters based there.
Somehow I have my doubts as to the comments being offered by the Feds as to their complete lack of knowledge of that operation.....but I suppose throwing out an excuse of we are understaffed is something bureaucrats would offer as an excuse for gross negligence and dereliction of duty.
MarPat was not carrying out its operation in secret or behind closed doors....and had been in operation for up to Seven Years and had for sure conducted the same kind of "Veterans Reunion" on four previous years with reports of that on local news and in local newspapers.
Yet....the FAA never heard of them.....really?
Did the County's Airport Manager have no clue they were in violation of FAA Regulations?
I have little trust in government as it is....but sometimes you really must take a step back and ask yourself just how incompetent can government be?
Does the FSDO get aircraft registration data from FAA HQ for their area of responsibility?
Does the Airworthiness Inspector for the FSDO get a list of Air Worthiness Certificates?
Do the FAA Airport Certification Inspectors document what aircraft are based at the airports they inspect...what operations are present?
Who tracks Airport Operational Data...flights to and from the Airport?
Did the County Airport Authority require Insurance Information for the MarPat Operation?
There is far more to this story than what is in that video and news reports so far.
As to the comment about "closing them all down" that is not a very wise suggestion as most are well run, have excellent maintenance, are use only highly qualified pilots and mechanics (engineers for you who use that term for knuckle skinners).
What is being reported is very troubling for sure....and does not appear to be the kind of warbird operation we wish to see operating.
But....let's focus upon this one and not paint everyone else with the same brush.
Big Pistons Forever
3rd Jul 2022, 19:54
SASless
A typical flight operations inspector will probably have 30 + commercial operator certificates he is responsible for many may not even be in the same state. For example the South Carolina FSDO looks after many Alaska 135 operators. They spend their time pushing paper related to those certificates and travel away form the office to for example ramp aircraft, takes away them for that and so is discouraged. They are also caught in a bind where when they do show up at airports they are the big bad feds picking on people not to mention the shi*t storm they would receive if they routinely tracked "flights to and from the airport".
There is a problem with But....let's focus upon this one and not paint everyone else with the same brush.
If the warbird community does not police itself than the FAA is going to do it for them and they are not going to like it. A few more of these operators that are colouring way outside the lines and then kill paying passengers and the program will be shut down. This needs to be a wake up call for everyone. 20 years ago there was a spate of civil formation flying accidents . The FAA told the warbird type clubs to sort it out or they were going to step in. In response FAST a non profit was set up to provide standardization, document training and experience requirements, provide check rides and encourage safe formation flying. The result was a dramatic drop in incidents and accidents and no FAA direct involvement. More government is not the solution, the warbird community is where the solution should come from. It is time for them to step up and stamp out operators like MARPAT
SASless
3rd Jul 2022, 20:11
More government is not the solution, the warbird community is where the solution should come from. It is time for them to step up and stamp out operators like MARPAT
That we can fully agree upon.
Years back we saw a similar problem with Huey's in the Helicopter Logging Industry and the weak enforcement effort re bogus parts and other deadly sins.....sadly....far too many wrote themselves off along with the helicopters.
But then too....there is the sad history of the US EMS Helicopter Industry.
Not to over look the Sight Seeing segment of the Industry.
What we see are the poisoned football getting passed along to another league of teams.....who shall be next after the Helicopter Warbird bunch?
So self policing clearly does not work - people want to make money and unless there is sufficient 'Fed' policing to make sure rules are followed, it seems clear that the wild west will continue to operate in such areas of aviation.
You can't have it both ways - if you want light touch federal control then someone, somewhere needs to keep things safe and legal - who is going to step up to the mark?
Two's in
4th Jul 2022, 17:17
All the rules in the world count for nothing if pilots and operators have a no sense of integrity or ethical conduct. The military beat it into to you from day one, but when you "pay to play" there's no easy way to assess whether someone has the moral fiber to be a responsible aviator. Thankfully, the majority of pilots seem to understand what is required, it's cases like this that remind you there are some terrible exceptions.
Cyclic Hotline
5th Jul 2022, 01:52
I find it quite incredible for the FAA to claim they have no knowledge of Marpat and their operations, following their previous acrimonious engagements. https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/284857-alouette-helicopters-declared-illegal-immigrants-faa.html
The FAA is understaffed right now, I have been waiting 3 years for my local office to approve some amendments to manuals. I had a visit from our FAA maintenance inspector about 3 months ago...he has been with the FAA for less than a year and had never even touched a helicopter in his life....
BTW, he is the FAA maintenance inspector for all helicopter companies in our area and provides the FAA oversight for about 8 companies that I know of flying between 50 to 70 helicopters....
The Operations inspector for the same helicopter companies is a former Delta Airlines pilot who has never flown a helicopter.
Therefore I can see how this can happen....
I find it quite incredible for the FAA to claim they have no knowledge of Marpat and their operations,
Private pilots do this a lot. Not everyone, but a lot. You hear stories of someone taking aerial pictures of their home and the guy flew them over it for a cost of…, or something like that.
This HUEY flight is a similar situation to the illegal use of private pilots moving very expensive football players around - only highlighted by a crash off the island of Jersey, UK.
I’m quite sure this situation isn’t a rarity and also that authorities, world-wide, know it’s being done but can’t dig the operations out or have proof of payment - especially if the money goes through the owner’s v.large accounts and not through the operation itself. Controversially, I believe the authorities have no real ‘drive’ to finding illegal activities as long as the revenue is pouring in…a ‘don’t ask’ policy.
R.I.P. to the victims.
SASless
5th Jul 2022, 12:57
Gordy,
Are you saying your FAA POI is not helicopter rated but has a 121 background with Delta?
Who does your Check Airman Rides? The POI with no helicopter experience?
Gordy,
Are you saying your FAA POI is not helicopter rated but has a 121 background with Delta?
Yes. There are no helicopter POI's in the Sacramento FAA Office
Who does your Check Airman Rides? The POI with no helicopter experience?
The last one was done by an inspector from the Alaska Office who came down and spent a few weeks travelling the West coast and getting everyone current again. I am due in November, so we will see who gets it this year.
SASless
5th Jul 2022, 17:02
Sounds like the FW centric FAA needs to re-organize and split Rotorcraft issues and oversight into a separate and new Directorate with a large Office in Oklahoma City.
That. has been the Achilles Heel of the FAA since helicopters first appeared....all of the Regs and Rules were based upon Airplanes and they never quite caught up as the Fixed Wing Mafia garnered the promotions and choice assignments and the Rotorcraft only guys missed those opportunities.
Just one man's opinion.....prove me wrong.
neveraneng
5th Jul 2022, 18:52
I am an ex-knuckle dragger of both rotary & fixed wing, not that that has any relevance to this tragic accident. I have the utmost respect to all those aviators who returned me home safe after a few thousand hours.
It is reported that this operation has been running for more than 7 years. My question is: At what point does something appear to be/become normal and no-one questions it? Until tragedy happens and then it is too late.
Do people actually ask whether an operator is legal, especially after all that time? And if you do, do you take the ‘yes’ answer at face value? (7 years!)
As to the fare paying passenger question, if you are asked to chip in (donate) for fuel, at what point does that invalidate any licence/insurance?
My own take on the video; it is an ill timed distraction.
My sincerest condolences to all of those who have been affected by this.
malabo
6th Jul 2022, 21:04
So they flew low, clipped a wire, and died. Not exclusively the turf of the unwashed, judging from the number of similar incidents happening to well-trained militaries, and regulated and AOC wall-papered civil operators.
Is there an RFM limitation to fly the Huey only from the right seat? We regularly fly the similar 212 single pilot from the left. There's a whole tolerated industry to fly passengers in warbirds, for some sanctioned compensation. Flying NOE (corrected per LRP below) is inviting disaster and to me has no place in joyrides, especially with a passenger's hands on the controls and the pilot turned around
to entertain the back seat passengers. Did the tragic flight deviate from the previously defined route, then loose or non-existent ops control.
Maybe at the end of the investigation it will end up like the Irish SAR 92, nobody at fault, just an accident.
So they flew low, clipped a wire, and died. Not exclusively the turf of the unwashed, judging from the number of similar incidents happening to well-trained militaries, and regulated and AOC wall-papered civil operators.
Is there an RFM limitation to fly the Huey only from the right seat? We regularly fly the similar 212 single pilot from the left. There's a whole tolerated industry to fly passengers in warbirds, for some sanctioned compensation. Flying NAP is inviting disaster and to me has no place in joyrides, especially with a passenger's hands on the controls and the pilot turned around
to entertain the back seat passengers. Did the tragic flight deviate from the previously defined route, then loose or non-existent ops control.
Maybe at the end of the investigation it will end up like the Irish SAR 92, nobody at fault, just an accident.
The UH-1 series Operator Manuals (-10) require a minimum crew of one pilot in the right seat. I don't know if there is a left seat conversion for the UH-1B but from the video it appears that it is an unmodified military UH-1B.
In 34 years as an Army Aviator I have never heard the term NAP used to indicate NOE flight. I think the internet investigator who made the youtube video created it. The cockpit video appears to be low level/contour flight. I didn't see anything close to NOE (NAP?).
SASless
7th Jul 2022, 02:07
Malabo,
In the scheme of things....which seat the PIC was sitting in is small potatoes to the list of other problems about the operation is going to see identified in the investigation.
A long time ago in my wild youth I was offered a Copilot job flying DC-4's from way down south into remote airstrips in the States hauling agriculture products.....well just one product.
The money was excellent an all tax free paid cash on the barrel head at the destination at the northern end.
When I opined that I was interested but did not have a DC-4 Type Rating.....and was given a very odd look by the guy offering the job.
He reminded me that if we ever got Ramp Checked....the very least of my worries would be not having a Type Rating.
That is an analogy for the situation extant for MarPat Aviation today.....the PIC could have been in the back seat with the passengers and it would not make much difference than what was going on.
For the record.....I passed on that DC-4 job....as the prospects of living in a very secure government owned housing facility was not very appealing.
MarPat better sound the Collision Alarm and Issue a Standby for Collision Warning to all Hands. What is coming is not going to be pleasant at all.
Was there some regulatory problems with their Alouette's some years ago
ALOUETTE HELICOPTERS DECLARED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BY THE FAA
Nap-of-the-earth (abbreviated NOE) is a type of very low-altitude flight course used by military aircraft to avoid enemy detection and attack in a high-threat environment. During NOE flight, geographical features are used as cover, exploiting valleys and folds in the terrain by flying in, rather than over, them.
just to clarify the gentleman did not make the term up, Been around for awhile.
JimEli
8th Jul 2022, 02:18
In the scheme of things....which seat the PIC was sitting in is small potatoes to the list of other problems about the operation is going to see identified in the investigation.
...
The list of other problems leads to a PIC in the wrong seat. If the FAA can't enforce the other things, sitting in the wrong seat becomes accepted. The system is broken and is overlooking issues that lead to easily preventable tragic accidents like this and K. Bryant. We're at a turning point, and the curve doesn't look good.
FH1100 Pilot
8th Jul 2022, 02:21
N98F was certified in the Experimental-Exhibition category. The FAA rules are very clear about carrying passengers in aircraft that are in other than Standard Category. For Experimental-Exhibition? No passengers. Let's look in the FARs!
91.319
(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate -
(1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate was issued; or
(2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.
Notice that it doesn't say, "No passengers," but rather no persons for compensation or hire. So maaayyyyybe...could we stretch that a little and say that people who make a (ahem) "donation" become members of the organization and thus ersatz "crewmembers" and would then be allowed? You know, a little (wink-wink) "workaround," perhaps?
Nope! Because of that first part of 91.319 - that bit about the "purpose" for which n98F's certificate was issued. For that, we go to FAR 21. We find that there are eight different sub-categories of the "Experimental" certificate.
21.191
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:
(blah blah blah)
(d) Exhibition. Exhibiting the aircraft's flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, motion picture, television, and similar productions, and the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency, including (for persons exhibiting aircraft) flying to and from such air shows and productions.
Uh-oh. We don't see an allowance for paying-passengers-who-aren't-really-but-they-made-a-"donation"-and-so-we'll-call-them-crewmembers. Oops!
To carry passengers in a "warbird" - and it is permissible - the operator would have to have one of those Living History Flight Experience (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.568_FAA_Web.pdf) exemptions. And Marpat did not. Double-oops!
So we don't know what's going to happen here. The FAA may do nothing, as usual, other than going after the certificates of the guys that owned and operated that UH-1B. Or they may search and come down really hard on others that are giving "warbird" rides for money...err...I mean "donations." As always, the families of those who perished in the Huey are left to pursue civil claims.
Nap-of-the-earth (abbreviated NOE) is a type of very low-altitude flight course used by military aircraft to avoid enemy detection and attack in a high-threat environment. During NOE flight, geographical features are used as cover, exploiting valleys and folds in the terrain by flying in, rather than over, them.
just to clarify the gentleman did not make the term up, Been around for awhile.
You are correct, NOE has been around since the mid-70's. Calling it NAP has not.
SASless
8th Jul 2022, 12:31
Jim,
I am thinking we are saying the same thing but using different wording.
The danger that is coming is that the baby might get thrown out with the bath water if the FAA does not take a very careful and thoughtful approach to how Warbirds Groups operate.
Most are very well done and should not be tarred with a broad brush as a result of this tragedy.
Likewise....other groups need to consider how they are doing business and ensure they are not at risk of running afoul of the FAR's.
212man
8th Jul 2022, 15:44
The Collings Foundation B17 and Thunder City Lightning accident reports give an insight into some of the horrendous practices out there.
SASless
8th Jul 2022, 15:53
Let he who be without Sin cast the first stone.....might apply here.
Cyclic Hotline
13th Jul 2022, 13:19
NTSB Preliminary Report released. Looks like a wirestrike.
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/105306/pdf
National Transportation Safety Board
Aviation Accident Preliminary Report
Location: Amherstdale, WV Accident Number: ERA22FA279
Date & Time: June 22, 2022, 16:45 Local Registration: N98F
Aircraft: Bell UH-1B Injuries: 6 Fatal
Flight Conducted
Under: Part 91: General aviation - Other work use
On June 22, 2022, about 1645 eastern daylight time, a Bell UH-1B helicopter, N98F, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident in Amherstdale, West Virginia. The private pilot, two pilot rated passengers and three additional passengers were fatally injured. The helicopter was operated by MARPAT Aviation, LLC, as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 flight.
The flight was associated with the “7th Annual Huey Reunion” during which the operator gave passengers the opportunity to “fly” the former military helicopter with a “safety pilot” seated in the left front seat for a “required donation” or “ride” for a suggested donation. The accident flight was the last flight of the day, and the accident occurred about 15 minutes after departure from Logan County Airport (6L4), Logan, West Virginia. There were no known witnesses to the accident.
The helicopter impacted a rock face about 3.5 nautical miles east of 6L4 and came to rest partially inverted on its right side on an asphalt road. The wreckage spanned the 26-ft road and continued into a ditch at the base of a rock face. The main wreckage was 542 ft past a utility cable that crossed about 180 ft above the road. Two utility cables were fractured consistent with tensile overload and were displaced toward the main wreckage near the roadside at 220 ft and 397 ft from the remaining utility cable. All major components of the helicopter were located in the vicinity of the accident site. Examination of the wreckage revealed that the cockpit and cabin had impacted the road and a guardrail, and both were consumed by a postimpact fire. The empennage, composed of the tailboom, vertical fin, and horizontal stabilizer, remained attached to the aft fuselage. The right horizontal stabilizer was impact-deformed at its tip and the left horizontal stabilizer was intact. The vertical stabilizer and tail boom were wrinkled. The right landing skid was located adjacent to the aft fuselage; however, first responders stated that it was moved to facilitate rescue efforts. The left landing skid was located in the ditch. Additional wreckage including pieces of Plexiglas, the aft cap of the left skid, a section of a tail rotor blade and a rock with green paint transfer were observed about 40 ft above the wreckage on a ledge of the steep rock face.
Both main rotor blades remained attached to their respective grips and drag braces, which remained attached to the hub. The hub remained attached to the main rotor mast. The main gearbox was present in its normally installed area separated from the airframe. The input driveshaft was separated from both the main gearbox and the engine and was observed under the main gearbox. The leading edge spar of the white main rotor blade was continuous through the blade span with sections of afterbody that had separated from the blade located adjacent to it in the main wreckage. The leading edge spar of the red main rotor blade was continuous to the tip with a chordwise upward bend near the inboard side of the blade. The outboard half of the red main rotor blade exhibited leading edge deformation in the direction opposite of normal rotation and the afterbody in this section was fragmented into multiple pieces that were observed near the main wreckage. The main rotor controls were impact separated in multiple locations from the pitch change links to the swashplate and collective lever control tubes. The main rotor controls forward of the swashplate and collective lever control tubes were consumed by the postimpact fire.
The tail rotor drive train was continuous through the intermediate gearbox and impactseparated between the intermediate and tail rotor gearboxes; however, portions of the forward end were consumed by fire. The tail rotor gearbox input housing remained attached to the vertical fin and the tail rotor gearbox and tail rotor were located intact in the vicinity. Both tail rotor blades exhibited chordwise fractures near their doublers and the outboard portions of the blades were found in the vicinity of the main wreckage. One of the two tail rotor pitch change links was separated from its pitch horn and its hardware was not located. The tail rotor controls were impact separated in multiple locations from the tail rotor to the forward section of the tail boom. The tail rotor controls were consumed by the postimpact fire forward of the tail boom.
The engine remained attached to the engine mounts which were separated from the airframe. The engine gearbox was mostly consumed by the postimpact fire. The engine throttle was near the 100% setting; however, the engine throttle linkage was fractured near the left engine mount connection. Visual examination of the power turbine blades through the engine exhaust revealed that two non-consecutive blades were fractured near their roots and not present. A single power turbine blade of full length was present between the two missing blade locations. There was evidence of tip rubbing between the power turbine blades and the engine case. The wreckage was retained. The engine and the tail rotor controls were removed for further examination.