Leaving Ryr

[Des.Vaisselles]

Got offered a job, starts in one month. My notice is 3 months with FR.
I asked for a shortened notice which they refused. I do not want to miss an opportinity for those people.
My question is, what do you risk if you would plain and simply break your contract?
if anyone has been in the same situation and can tell me about their expérience it would be greatly appreciated.
Nb, I am on a british contract

[Alrosa]

Under English law, which is what I imagine your Ryanair U.K. contract would be subject to, Ryanair could take legal action against you to recover any financial or other losses they may have incurred by your leaving before your contractual notice period.

It’s a shame your potential employer can’t or won’t appreciate you have certain contractual obligations at your current employer.

[Potatos_69]

While it is definitely a risk that FR could chase you in court, that would become rather expensive for them to do, and especially if you are only an FO the gain they could get wouldn't really be worth the effort.

Who knows however, do what is best for you, if this new job will give you a longer more stable career, take the risk! Can't afford to lose the good stuff and get stuck with FR

[TheAirMission]

I and others left lauda within the 3 months notice, I know of countless others who have done so with no follow up after. obviously you burn the bridge so you'll never go back. but who would want to.

[Just a spotter]

You could ask for a cost to buy yourself out of the contract early and then pay your employer the agreed amount. There may be some haggling.

If both parties agree to such an arrangement then it's all legal and above board.

JAS

[RavenOne]

Just from personal experience. I wouldnt burn the bridge to FR. Yes, they are the cancer of aviation but they might end up the strongest competitor to all legacies.
I kept it all formal and just. They were quite "nice" letting me go with 5 days notice, after I honestly explained my situation. Worth a shot IMHO.
Edit: Depends on your Base Manager for sure. Declan was quite helpful to my surprise.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I would do what just a spotter said. I know RYR struggling a bit at the moment crewing flights TRE flying more now I heard but money talks. Compromise on your days off? Look at your hours and if you can, offer to work extra if they need help? Not ideal but you never know. RYR will always be around. Some OCC courses have a few returning RYR pilots.

[BoeingLudo737]

Just from personal experience. I wouldnt burn the bridge to FR. Yes, they are the cancer of aviation but they might end up the strongest competitor to all legacies.
I kept it all formal and just. They were quite "nice" letting me go with 5 days notice, after I honestly explained my situation. Worth a shot IMHO.
Edit: Depends on your Base Manager for sure. Declan was quite helpful to my surprise.

Cancer of aviation? There are thousands of people happily working for RYR. You should be ashamed of making comments like this. Moderator should be banning these!

[macdo]

Cancer of aviation? There are thousands of people happily working for RYR. You should be ashamed of making comments like this. Moderator should be banning these!

I'm only commenting on this because you used the B word. I don't like whats been said, so lets get it banned, so 21st century. For anyone that worked in aviation prior to the invention of low cost airlines, as far as pilot t&c's are concerned, they have had a cancerous effect, slowing gnawing away until little is left. That said, there are also many happy loco pilots, so both sides have a point, but neither should be banned.
AFA the OP's question is concerned, I left a job without working my full notice years ago and the DFO jumped up and down about it, but it never went further and they still wrote me a decent reference. In the end litigation is a mugs game, but if u can negotiate a clean break, its better for you as you never ever know with aviation, one day RYR might be your only option to pay the bills.

[RavenOne]

Cancer of aviation? There are thousands of people happily working for RYR. You should be ashamed of making comments like this. Moderator should be banning these!

Sorry to hurt your feelings. You really believe FR is promoting the T&C's and improving employee's lifestyle? Delusional.

[Des.Vaisselles]

Thanks for your replies,
To be honest I have grown such resentment towards this company that I will change careers before returning to work for them.
I know some people have it good over there (you have your base, you are home everyday) and I am tiered of this argument between pro's and con's. If you want to love it, so be it. For me it has been nothing but hardship and I received the salary they advertised when joining, perhaps once in three years. There is no way I will let go of a serious opportunity and sacrifice more for these people.

[common toad]

I'm only commenting on this because you used the B word. I don't like whats been said, so lets get it banned, so 21st century. For anyone that worked in aviation prior to the invention of low cost airlines, as far as pilot t&c's are concerned, they have had a cancerous effect, slowing gnawing away until little is left. That said, there are also many happy loco pilots, so both sides have a point, but neither should be banned.
AFA the OP's question is concerned, I left a job without working my full notice years ago and the DFO jumped up and down about it, but it never went further and they still wrote me a decent reference. In the end litigation is a mugs game, but if u can negotiate a clean break, its better for you as you never ever know with aviation, one day RYR might be your only option to pay the bills.

I imagine then that if your employer gave you less than the minimum notice and recompense you would be happy with that? Works both ways.

[BoeingLudo737]

Sorry to hurt your feelings. You really believe FR is promoting the T&C's and improving employee's lifestyle? Delusional.

Feelings are not hurt. You are delusional and a sad individual. Won't be spending more time talking to people like you. Total waste of space

[RavenOne]

Feelings are not hurt. You are delusional and a sad individual. Won't be spending more time talking to people like you. Total waste of space
Whatever makes you happy. :ok:

[SaulGoodman]

I have always (twice) respected my notice period but for the crooks of Ryanair, who let you pay for your own uniform FFS, I wouldn’t think 2 seconds about it. It’s not your problem that they are short of crew. Just take your new job and never look back.

[WHBM]

It's not only the current employer's view. For all you know the relevant director there may themselves take a new position in future years elsewhere in the industry, above you, and remember the situation.

At least let your new employer know the situation, otherwise they may ask for a reference, this is refused, the new employer's HR policy is not to take people on without an adequate reference, and then you are stuffed.

[TheAirMission]

It's not only the current employer's view. For all you know the relevant director there may themselves take a new position in future years elsewhere in the industry, above you, and remember the situation.

At least let your new employer know the situation, otherwise they may ask for a reference, this is refused, the new employer's HR policy is not to take people on without an adequate reference, and then you are stuffed.

Ryanair never give references anyway so

[Des.Vaisselles]

It's not only the current employer's view. For all you know the relevant director there may themselves take a new position in future years elsewhere in the industry, above you, and remember the situation.


Valid point although I am pretty confident that I would not accept ever again a job in a company ran by FR's managers.

[Biffsticksuperhero]

I gave 3 weeks notice to FR and I was glad I did. They chased me for this £5k for a few weeks, even asked me to write an email to say I would pay it, Because they know they can’t enforce it. I never paid. They can’t prove loss of earnings on you. The also can’t charge you a penalty for leaving either. It’s funny how their contracts are there to restrict you working as a “contractor”. If they treated your right you wouldn’t leave in the first place.

A few weeks into the new company, the HR manager called me to ask how I got round it as they were offering to pay this penalty fee to FR and they wanted a way of getting out of it.

[three eighty]

Your new employee should respect your notice period from your current employee. Should they not, then it puts them in question. Just saying.

[Biffsticksuperhero]

I wasn’t EMPLOYED by FR. I was contracted with terms that benefitted them greatly over myself.

basically, they’re asking for people to treat them with the same loyalty they show them. Absolute 0

[limahotel]

Just from personal experience. I wouldnt burn the bridge to FR. Yes, they are the cancer of aviation but they might end up the strongest competitor to all legacies.
I kept it all formal and just. They were quite "nice" letting me go with 5 days notice, after I honestly explained my situation. Worth a shot IMHO.
Edit: Depends on your Base Manager for sure. Declan was quite helpful to my surprise.
I was in a similar situation (explained everything to them, told them I could only do month and a half, I even paid the 5k "breach of contract" penalty). They were nice and understanding until five years later when my company went bust and I tried to get back to FR. I was blacklisted.

[Confusious]

Cancer of aviation? There are thousands of people happily working for RYR. You should be ashamed of making comments like this. Moderator should be banning these!
Why should he/she be ashamed and be banned for speaking their mind? From my rotten experience with FR 'cancer' well describes the poison that exists within them. Glad you're happy, but I can assure you when it's bad it's unbearably bad.

[Confusious]

Got offered a job, starts in one month. My notice is 3 months with FR.
I asked for a shortened notice which they refused. I do not want to miss an opportinity for those people.
My question is, what do you risk if you would plain and simply break your contract?
if anyone has been in the same situation and can tell me about their expérience it would be greatly appreciated.
Nb, I am on a british contract
I am not a lawyer nor do I know what the terms of your contract are, so my thoughts are just an opinion.

If you are on a 'Self Employed Contract' then their position is severely weakened as according to HMRC website to qualify as self employed you must have more than one customer together with a lot of other criteria which FR's contractors do not meet. I would pay for an hour with an appropriately qualified lawyer and show them your contract for a view of your position. I'm pretty sure that FR wouldn't want HMRC sniffing around their employment methods. IMHO well worth the cost of an hour with a lawyer.

Best of luck for the future with your new employer.

[RedDragonFlyer]

I think a general rule in life should be not to burn bridges. That's true in every industry, but especially ones with such a small pool of people.
I have to agree with what someone said above. Most companies should realise and respect that you have a three month notice period. The fact they don't would make me question this new employer.

[Confusious]

I think a general rule in life should be not to burn bridges. That's true in every industry, but especially ones with such a small pool of people.
I have to agree with what someone said above. Most companies should realise and respect that you have a three month notice period. The fact they don't would make me question this new employer.
True, but if you read the post above yours, that person complied with everything and paid them £5K, but was blacklisted from returning to FR. They are an irrational and unpredictable company.

[Boeingdriver999]

Why don't you call in sick and file a safety report with the UK CAA saying that RYR are putting you under mental duress over this situation that affects your ability to go to work?

[A320LGW]

I second the above. An employer I know of offering excellent terms and conditions and known to be a "good" company once asked a candidate at interview about his current notice period. The candidate enthusiastically answered it didn't matter and he could start whenever this prospective employer wanted. He did not get the job. Their view was if he'd do it to his old employer he'd to it to his new one and they couldn't trust this person.

Love them or hate them, Ryanair is not the company you want blacklisting your name. Covid taught us all one thing, you never ever know what is around the corner. You say all this now that you'd never go back, but after say 3 yrs of unemployment and bills banging on the door, you may view things very differently at some point. Best of luck

[A320LGW]

Why don't you call in sick and file a safety report with the UK CAA saying that RYR are putting you under mental duress over this situation that affects your ability to go to work?
I wouldn't recommend this. You'd suck yourself into a lengthy CAA process where youd regularly be asked to give statements.

On top of that the final result is the same, Ryanair absolutely will blacklist you.

[SaulGoodman]

I second the above. An employer I know of offering excellent terms and conditions and known to be a "good" company once asked a candidate at interview about his current notice period. The candidate enthusiastically answered it didn't matter and he could start whenever this prospective employer wanted. He did not get the job. Their view was if he'd do it to his old employer he'd to it to his new one and they couldn't trust this person.

Love them or hate them, Ryanair is not the company you want blacklisting your name.

unless you are Irish or somewhat connected you never can return to RYR if you leave.

Sometimes a spot opens unexpectedly in a Typerating course and they need someone on short notice. If a candidate already passed the hiring process even good companies don’t really care if that person still has a notice period with RYR. Make sure you have an insurance for legal counsel and let them take you to court if they insist you paying back this 5K. In addition ask them for a cost specification for your type rating course - especially if you joined rated on type. They are risking opening Pandora’s box. I have never burned bridges so far but I would not think one second about it wrt Ryanair.

[Confusious]

Why don't you call in sick and file a safety report with the UK CAA saying that RYR are putting you under mental duress over this situation that affects your ability to go to work?
Surely if they inform the CAA that they are unable to go to work then how could they possibly start the new job? Also, would there be a high chance of medical suspension?

[Whitemonk Returns]

I think a general rule in life should be not to burn bridges. That's true in every industry, but especially ones with such a small pool of people.
I have to agree with what someone said above. Most companies should realise and respect that you have a three month notice period. The fact they don't would make me question this new employer.

Unless that bridge is painted in blue and white with a yellow harp on it. Aren't RYR pilots still getting Covid paycuts? Tell them you will carry out your notice period if you are immediately restored to 100% pay as per your contract. When they refuse give them 1 months notice and cease all further communication with them until your last day. I had this advice leaving an airline many moons ago and despite their angry emails it is simply empty threats on their part. Enjoy your new job

[limahotel]

unless you are Irish or somewhat connected you never can return to RYR if you leave.

Sometimes a spot opens unexpectedly in a Typerating course and they need someone on short notice. If a candidate already passed the hiring process even good companies don’t really care if that person still has a notice period with RYR. Make sure you have an insurance for legal counsel and let them take you to court if they insist you paying back this 5K. In addition ask them for a cost specification for your type rating course - especially if you joined rated on type. They are risking opening Pandora’s box. I have never burned bridges so far but I would not think one second about it wrt Ryanair.
Not true. I know of at least two people who have returned. Even I (eventually) got a second chance but then covid hit and everything came to a standstill. What I wanted to say is, if you don't pay the penalty, I am almost certain you will never play the blue and yellow harp again. On the other hand, if you try and explain your situation to them (and pay the penalty), there is still no guarantee they will take you back.

[Boeingdriver999]

"Hi CAA,

My current airline is harassing me and bullying me to go along with what they want. They are well known for such appalling behaviour and jeopardising flight safety - see the Ciampino flight for evidence of such behaviour. I've decided to stay home from work and not fly because I don't think it's wise to fly in that sort of environment. I am specifically unfit to fly because of the hostile workplace environment that they choose to create. Otherwise my physical and mental health are in good condition. What do you think CAA?"

[FlightDetent]

There are thousands of people happily working for RYR. You should be ashamed of making comments like this. Moderator should be banning these!Thought police, where did I hear that one. The only thing to fear are people willing to punish others for not sharing their (present) righteous worldview.

​​​​​Aviaton context - it's a meteorological term. Rhyme with cornflake.
​​​​​

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

They would drop you with no notice no problem. Why so loyal? Maybe you will have to pay the cost of your type rating back!! Jokes 😂

[RudderTrimZero]

Controversial post. When you know you have a huge notice period to serve and a new employer who can't wait, make sure you have a good excuse for getting out early before you even write that resignation notice. This excuse should not give your current employer the opportunity to even contemplate.

Do what needs to be done. Lookafter yourself. Thats my moto and it has worked for me. Loyalty in aviation is a one way street. Those of you who haven't seen more than 3 of your past employers go bust of course will never understand.

[A320LGW]

Do what needs to be done. Lookafter yourself. Thats my moto and it has worked for me. Loyalty in aviation is a one way street. Those of you who haven't seen more than 3 of your past employers go bust of course will never understand.

This.

I have learned this the hard way. No one, absolutely no one cares about you in this industry. The only time someone will ever care about you is when your misfortune affects them.

[cessnapete]

Unless that bridge is painted in blue and white with a yellow harp on it. Aren't RYR pilots still getting Covid paycuts? Tell them you will carry out your notice period if you are immediately restored to 100% pay as per your contract. When they refuse give them 1 months notice and cease all further communication with them until your last day. I had this advice leaving an airline many moons ago and despite their angry emails it is simply empty threats on their part. Enjoy your new job

Its not just an RYR thing. BA too have not yet restored their pilots Covid pay cuts.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Didn’t know that about BA but don’t forget BA basic is way way better. RYR you don’t fly you earn nothing. What’s RYR basic FO pre COVID £40k? Then with flight pay you can earn up to £75k based on 800 hrs. COVID pay cut 20% on everything but really it was more like 60% odd pay cut for RYR.

[hobbit1983]

This.

I have learned this the hard way. No one, absolutely no one cares about you in this industry. The only time someone will ever care about you is when your misfortune affects them.

Yup, this!

[calypso]

Hi CAA,

My current airline is harassing me and bullying me to go along with what they want. They are well known for such appalling behaviour and jeopardising flight safety - see the Ciampino flight for evidence of such behaviour. I've decided to stay home from work and not fly because I don't think it's wise to fly in that sort of environment. I am specifically unfit to fly because of the hostile workplace environment that they choose to create. Otherwise my physical and mental health are in good condition. What do you think CAA

As others have said just think how R would handle the situation if the tables where turned and they could gain any advantage by getting rid of you. Would they hesitate? should you?

Having said that and in reference to the post above. Using safety to push a personal agenda is a big no no in my book.

[WhatShortage]

Feelings are not hurt. You are delusional and a sad individual. Won't be spending more time talking to people like you. Total waste of space
Seems like a youngster just paid a wonderful 35k for a type rating with a post on LinkedIn just like: I HAVE HAD THE BEST OPPORTUNITY I COULD EVER IMAGINED OF WITH RYANAIR, THEY OFFERED ME...
They offered you sh*t, you paid for the interview, you paid an astronomical price for the type and you pay to work. Cancer is just a scratch to what i would say.

BTW, as someone else said, I had a friend which left in a month due to being friends with "someone" within management at his base.... So maybe you have friends?
​

[Mrmorreti]

Leave but work your notice - you may get to rejoin (no doubt on worse conditions) if you need to in the future.

Leave and don't work your notice - you'll be on black list, nothing more.

Sometimes closing the door firmly behind you is not a bad thing.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Go on sick leave and get double salary.

[SaulGoodman]

Go on sick leave and get double salary.

that is the stupidest thing to do. If you pretend to be sick while it is easy to trace for RYR that you are actually doing a TQ then you are a fraud. You are doing illegal things.

Just leave. If they want to sue you let them. I am very certain they don’t as they are afraid to open pandora’s box. Also ask them for a cost specification for your rating.

[Confusious]

that is the stupidest thing to do. If you pretend to be sick while it is easy to trace for RYR that you are actually doing a TQ then you are a fraud. You are doing illegal things.

Just leave. If they want to sue you let them. I am very certain they don’t as they are afraid to open pandora’s box. Also ask them for a cost specification for your rating.

Couldn't agree more with you Saul, and for those who haven't been in the aviation world for decades, you'll soon realise just how very small our world is. Don't be surprised if there is someone you've flown with or in the past or even a training/management pilot on your new type rating course with the new company. Innocent gossip will then make its way back over the Irish Sea.

[Say Mach Number]

The way I see it is;

If the new airline you are going to are asking you to bust your notice period then maybe they are not quite the 'great opportunity' not to miss. Not a great an attitude for a new employer.

Even Ryanair, yes shock horror, doesn't ask people to not work their full notice.

Lets face it most established airlines know its 3 months notice for the vast majority of pilots and has been for a long time.

Yes if you have months of unused leave etc but work your notice as the grass is not always greener regardless of the Ryanair debate.

[enzino]

Even Ryanair, yes shock horror, doesn't ask people to not work their full notice.


They do. And trying to please them has been my biggest mistake because I never ended up working there. But maybe they did me a favour.

To the OP: just leave. Look after yourself.

[Say Mach Number]

Not worth falling out over as they say, but in my first hand experience FR do not encourage anyone not to work full notice unless of course their Company is happy to let them go. If their Company says do full notice then so be it.

[Enigma01]

F..k them. Don't get intimitated with the blacklist of RYR. I was unemployed a few years ago, was invited by them but i chose to do something else rather than working for those crooks. And it paid of. You have to ask yourself after this many years of experience you have, if you still want to work for them, even if you are unemployed. For a newbie the situation is different ofcourse. But you....you know the drill already.
So, go for that other job before someone else gets and you being stuck with that crook company, simply because you were honest to play by the book.

Good luck.