Wizzair CEO telling crews to fly fatigued

[tubby linton]

https://twitter.com/eu_cockpit/status/1534557629229449216?s=21&t=ZIzWYFJ_nBWLeV6ZlZC-dQ Here is the clip of the Wizzair CEO telling his crews to fly fatigued.

[SaulGoodman]

Absolute tosser! But nothing unexpected from that clown unfortunately.

[733driver]

Hope it costs him his job.. He seems to be one of the worst out there.

[FUMR]

I fear that it may take an accident, and that will be too late!

[Busbuoy]

I fear that it may take an accident, and that will be too late!
And then it will be the crew's fault because they failed to report unfit for duty due fatigue, you watch!

[A321drvr]

There will be no consequences as long crews continue to report fit for their 6th consecutive early and/or late, they are willing to extend to fit those mid-east roundtrips within FTL-s as well as to turn a blind eye for OCC's creative "bookkeeping" on changing previous stby-s to off-s. No one can help them but themselves. Time to grow a pair and stand up against these bullies, at least for yourselves if you couldn't for your colleagues 2 years ago.

[SOPS]

I do believe it… but I don’t believe I just saw that!!

[RudderTrimZero]

Wizz pilots need to display some strength. They should strike over this. The CEOs fate would be secured overnight if they did it. Eastern European culture used to be one of standing your ground but the current generation? Meh. How did we get to the position where it was acceptable to fly 4 sectors even 4 times a week let alone 6? Honestly. This job has become a world class joke.

[Sqwak7700]

Well done Wizz pilots, 1 out of 5. Other airlines could learn from your professionalism. Instead of just whining, you are taking the hard road and pulling the pin. Keep it up. 👍

[Less Hair]

How can a CEO end up with a request like this on tape? Is he asking to violate aviation rules?

[SWBKCB]

How can a CEO end up with a request like this on tape? Is he asking to violate aviation rules?

Maybe his judgement was impaired due to fatigue....

[AOB9]

I often regret that I didn't push myself hard enough to become an airline pilot. However, when I see something like this I feel I may have chosen the right path after all.

[Lookleft]

Because working in an office when you are tired is just the same as flying an aircraft when you are fatigued. If the business model requires pilots to fly fatigued to meet the schedule then the business model is a failure. When will the regulators actually regulate and make these airline executives understand that aviation is not the same as driving Uber.

[biddedout]

He is listed as a director of UK AoC holder - Wizzair UK , Maybe its time for the UK CAA to pay a visit.

[Jane Austen]

Many CEO's should be in the court soon. And some arrogant sociopaths of them should be paid a very high price for how they treated people.

[CVividasku]

I fear that it may take an accident, and that will be too late!
"Unfortunately", it seems that fatigue is not so much of a factor in air safety.
It should be, but apparently airlines which make their crew fly very fatigued have track records that are no worse than airlines with better conditions.

[a5in_the_sim]

Because working in an office when you are tired is just the same as flying an aircraft when you are fatigued. If the business model requires pilots to fly fatigued to meet the schedule then the business model is a failure. When will the regulators actually regulate and make these airline executives understand that aviation is not the same as driving Uber.


What regulators?

[OutsideCAS]

What regulators?

I think the poster might be thinking of the organisation that relieves AOC Operators and flight crews of exorbitant amounts of cash and seemingly does f@ck all by way of return.

[Superpilot]

Now I understand the NASA like assessment process for experienced pilots....

[EpsilonVaz]

"Unfortunately", it seems that fatigue is not so much of a factor in air safety.
It should be, but apparently airlines which make their crew fly very fatigued have track records that are no worse than airlines with better conditions.
Until they don't

[SaulGoodman]

As CEO he has the final responsibility. He should be reported to the Hungarian CAA or even the UKCAA as they have a British AOC. Wizz pilots, do your duty!

[fdr]

Hmmm, EASA Subpart Q wasn't as restrictive as much around the world but that is untidy. Is the CEO in this case the accountable manager or just a senior person within the AOC?

[FUMR]

"Unfortunately", it seems that fatigue is not so much of a factor in air safety.
It should be, but apparently airlines which make their crew fly very fatigued have track records that are no worse than airlines with better conditions.

Nevertheless, fatigue was found to be a contributing factor in 16 commercial accidents between 1993 and 2016.

Source: [url]https://predictivesafety.com/16-plane-crashes-caused-by-fatigued-aircrew/

[fireflybob]

Rather than striking I suggest the pilots go sick at the end of sector one or three when the aircraft is away from base - let this pip squeak of a CEO sort it out then.

[Akrapovic]

I would bet a large percentage of airline CEO's have said similar.

[limahotel]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/475x356/youre_an_idiot_case_closed_c28bcd604e8e5683c31454ddabf4e78ff b940de8.jpg

[olster]

A lot of airline managers are thick as mince half wits but this bloke seems of Olympic standard. Time to draw that line fellow pilots.

[fireflybob]

I would bet a large percentage of airline CEO's have said similar.

But publicly, on camera?

[squarecrow]

I just read this in the BALPA news letter,

The comments about fatigue made by Wizz Air CEO József Váradi (http://balpa.newsweaver.com/OntheRadar/14h315wfxy7gvts0ahsac1/external?email=true&a=5&p=61748649&t=29896949) are unacceptable. An airline CEO's priority is to safely operate flights that make the airline money. If you forget your safety obligations, you can forget the rest.

Therefore, BALPA has called for Wizz Air (http://balpa.newsweaver.com/OntheRadar/5f0bej5ics6gvts0ahsac1/external?email=true&a=5&p=61748649&t=29896949) to clarify that it would fully support any pilot who does the right thing by not flying if they feel fatigued, for the safety of their passengers, crew and aircraft.


Safety is the number one priority for our members. Read our full,

[IcanCmyhousefromhere]

“6th consecutive early”. They do that? Unbelievable. How many days to recover from that? Working that sort of roster is clearly not viable for anyone. The management should fly with a crew for a few weeks to appreciate quite how tiring it is. Well done the pilots for declaring unfit. It takes courage.

[JumpJumpJump]

Rather than striking I suggest the pilots go sick at the end of sector one or three when the aircraft is away from base - let this pip squeak of a CEO sort it out then.

Yeah errrmm.... No. Much better to have the union behind you.

[Bksmithca]

Nevertheless, fatigue was found to be a contributing factor in 16 commercial accidents between 1993 and 2016.

Source: https://predictivesafety.com/16-plane-crashes-caused-by-fatigued-aircrew/ (https://predictivesafety.com/16-plane-crashes-caused-by-fatigued-aircrew/)
Not that I'm disagreeing with you as fatigue is a major issue but I sometimes question facts quoted by a company trying to sell a product. The report that they are quoting was a BBC article which I couldn't locate and the report doesn't say how many accidents occurred in that time period

[RichardJones]

Not that I'm disagreeing with you as fatigue is a major issue but I sometimes question facts quoted by a company trying to sell a product. The report that they are quoting was a BBC article which I couldn't locate and the report doesn't say how many accidents occurred in that time period

Corporate greed, nothing less. This sought of pressure has cost lives in the past. This guy comes across as a bully. You must stand up to a bully.

It has been discovered, in recent times, fatigue increases the chances of micro blackouts. This in addition to the other risks to flight safety.

[hobbit1983]

"Unfortunately", it seems that fatigue is not so much of a factor in air safety.
It should be, but apparently airlines which make their crew fly very fatigued have track records that are no worse than airlines with better conditions.

Bull. Very fatigued pilots will make mistakes. This will be a factor sooner or later.

[truckflyer]

A company that start you early, transitions to late, back to early, back to late in a 6 day block.

Threatening letters to crew regarding "being fit for duty"
These letters have being sent around for over 10 years.

The Hungarian CAA are just puppets in the Wizz play, their head office is in Switzerland.
As for the crews there is little or no culture standing up to authority in many of the countries their operate, don't forget the "bad apples" video.
This is who they are.

[back to Boeing]

Bull. Very fatigued pilots will make mistakes. This will be a factor sooner or later.
I remember this argument being made years ago around 250 hour pilots rapidly excelling in to the left hand seat. Accidents will happen. But as we have seen over the decades airlines have somehow been able to mitigate this and the risk hasn’t materialised (yet, don’t know if it will or won’t).

The problem with fatigue is the same issue hasn’t been able to be made tangible yet either. Colgan was a clear example of fatigue but the commuting habits were blamed and the 1500 hour rule was instigated which was clearly ridiculous as both pilots were well above the minimum requirements. But it’s had the unintended consequences of massively driving up t’s and c’s in the USA. As far as I understand it gone are the days of food stamps for regional pilots.

But fatigue is a horrific insidious nasty problem that I believe is covered up by the fact that there are 2 pilots on the flight deck. I remember reading an ASR stating “I woke up to find the FO asleep”.

So what do we do about it. There is no getting around that flying an early shorthaul means that most won’t get a decent night’s sleep because of fretting about waking up at 3am. A late is no better. A day longhaul is great, but you have the return to contend with. Augmented crew. Lovely, but you still only get 2-3 hours in a bunk with at best what a 90 minute doze and then the required longhaul pee.

in my humble opinion the only bullet proof safe way to fly is a 4-8 hour duty with the pilots reporting at about 8-9 am. But that’s impractical.

So we pilots make do we cope. I have learnt in my career that a) probably things won’t go wrong (knowing that they can at any point but probably won’t). b) I can land an aircraft adequately after having been awake for 24 hours and c) it will get worse, but having recently re read fate is the hunter it was even worse before. The only thing that has really changed is the acceptance of risk.

we’ve all muttered “well if only the ceo/head of crewing/ head of HR/ head of flight safety etc etc etc flew my roster……. But they won’t.

sorry this is a ramble that has no conclusions. I refer you to the seminal song everybody’s free by Baz Luhrman

[averow]

Who does this CEO think he is? A hospital CEO ? Woking fatigued is unfortunately the default for those of us in healthcare now. We allied ourselves with our colleagues in aviation b/c they showed the gumption to prove that excessive hours lead to crashes and deaths.

[Dannyboy39]

Clearly this forum is going to have a pilot bias and I certainly don’t disagree with the sentiments above, but a word for the rest of the industry.

The whole aviation sector globally is understaffed and/or running on empty. It is truly in a mess at the moment.

There are not enough engineers to go round - the race to reactivate and fix aircraft take a lot more effort, cost, time and stress than it did before. There isn’t enough hangarage to go round. People are doing more and more overtime, likely for no extra pay and at breaking point.

The OEMs can’t get airplanes up in the air right now as they struggle to meet demands.

The airport terminal workers that are seeing the wrath of passengers on a daily basis, probably earning a pittance at the expense of their managers, working silly hours to try and keep the operation moving. The Daily Hate Mail like to hate unions, but these people are typically not in a union and have no recourse against questionable business practices.

[Right20deg]

Look no further than Air France for an horrific safety record. Long distance commutes from the south of the country, paid for by AF prior to a long haul duty. This with their pilots attitude and behaviours that would not be tolerated in a UK airline, the ability to get things so very wrong, so many times. What a history.
All this.... and self inflicted.

[SWBKCB]

The Daily Star(!!) have it as the lead story on their front page - as they put it "Hmm! What could possibly go wrong?" and "Anybody else see the flaw in his cunning plan?"

[Nick 1]

He could be fatigued sitting in his office , the others are in front of 180 souls . This man is a disgrace ( among many ) for commercial aviation.

[RichardJones]

Look no further than Air France for an horrific safety record. Long distance commutes from the south of the country, paid for by AF prior to a long haul duty. This with their pilots attitude and behaviours that would not be tolerated in a UK airline, the ability to get things so very wrong, so many times. What a history.
All this.... and self inflicted.

Couldn't agree more. Well said. Oh hang on, we are allowed to think it as it's common knowledge. But we can't say it. This is the new master race of Europes airline. It's where national pride takes presidence, over safety. The ICAO official language is English. Except for the above.

[Jane Austen]

CEO's should pay attention that pilots, especially the very professional ones, will not forget the last two years. Things are rapidly changing sometimes. Like I mentioned before, some CEO's are arrogant sociopaths. Hope they will learned that people are important for any each industry, by hard way.

[Vokes55]

The problem with fatigue is that it’s almost impossible to prove beyond doubt. We all know that fatigue was the main cause of the Flydubai crash in Rostov, but the data recordings show a pretty significant pilot error, so that goes down as the official cause.

As for that rat Varadi, he’s spent the last month blaming everyone but himself for the state his airline is in. At first denying his airline was even affected by the delays going on in the U.K. and around Europe, and now seeking to blame anyone from “ATC shortages”, “supply chain issues”, airports “not guaranteeing commercial agreements” and now pilots and cabin crew going fatigued.

The fact is that nobody wants to work for him. After booking the entire conference hall at the Crowne Plaza in Crawley for a cabin crew recruitment event, three people turned up. One was rejected, the other two turned it down.

The other fact is that everything he has done since leaving the Eastern European market has been a catastrophic failure. Dumping capacity into Gatwick with over 200 seats per flight in the lowest fare brackets and then having to pay €300 to each because they can’t crew the flights is just another failure he can add to his CV. The share price has tanked significantly more than any other airline in the past year, how long until the magic money tree runs dry?

[OutsideCAS]

The man talks of "reputational damage" - I think he has managed to damage this all by himself.

There are many suspect practices being actioned under a post pandemic umbrella. I heard from a colleague in his UK airline is that min. rest of 10 hours is becoming common at home basing (with a 12:46 previous duty) by use of hotel instead of sleeping at home base location - legal?. Many airlines I think are looking to use the EASA FTL directive as a bottom line to meet and not as a guidance as I think EASA intended?.

[Akrapovic]

But publicly, on camera?

No . . . that's the difference!

[Lake1952]

I know a pilot, long since retired, who flew for Delta for many years. I was always amazed at the true length of his work day. He started his airline career with Northeast Airlines flying FH-227s across New England... Keene, Lebanon, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Worcester etc. Northeast merged into Delta circa 1972, and he progressed through several types with Delta. When Delta eventually closed its BOS pilot base, he remained in his suburban Boston home.

He eventually flew B763s out of JFK, most commonly to SVO. He'd leave his home to catch a "shuttle " flight from BOS to LGA, shooting for the 11AM or noon flight. A taxi from LGA to JFK to prepare for his international departure to SVO, about a 5PM departure. There were commonly hour long taxi times to take off. An 8-9 hour flight and a landing at SVO at was about 3AM for his body clock. There was a crew rest seat in the rear of the business class cabin and a third pilot, but the defacto length of his day was scary.

My larger point is how often a pilot's commute adds a considerable number of hours to his day.

[TheAirMission]

I know a pilot, long since retired, who flew for Delta for many years. I was always amazed at the true length of his work day. He started his airline career with Northeast Airlines flying FH-227s across New England... Keene, Lebanon, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Worcester etc. Northeast merged into Delta circa 1972, and he progressed through several types with Delta. When Delta eventually closed its BOS pilot base, he remained in his suburban Boston home.

He eventually flew B763s out of JFK, most commonly to SVO. He'd leave his home to catch a "shuttle " flight from BOS to LGA, shooting for the 11AM or noon flight. A taxi from LGA to JFK to prepare for his international departure to SVO, about a 5PM departure. There were commonly hour long taxi times to take off. An 8-9 hour flight and a landing at SVO at was about 3AM for his body clock. There was a crew rest seat in the rear of the business class cabin and a third pilot, but the defacto length of his day was scary.

My larger point is how often a pilot's commute adds a considerable number of hours to his day.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But over in Europe we simply do not have such commutes as the norm. Most airlines require their crew to be within 60-90 minutes standby at their assigned hub. This sort of commuting is impossible at low cost carriers in Europe during the working week.

[felixthecat]

Just wait for the damage to the airline when something happens and fatigue is cited as a cause. Not to mention the charges of corporate manslaughter !

[RichardJones]

The CEO can't help it. Considering where he comes from, as they have been under the Jack boot of the Soviets for far too long, to think otherwise. When the inhabitants of a country are bullied, a lot become bullies themselves. Not their fault.
Nuf said.

[wiggy]

I understand the point you are trying to make. But over in Europe we simply do not have such commutes as the norm. Most airlines require their crew to be within 60-90 minutes standby at their assigned hub. This sort of commuting is impossible at low cost carriers in Europe during the working week.

FWIW the sort of commutes lakes1952 describes still potentially exist in europe/UK, especially with some of the legacy Long Haul operators which may not have a strict live within x minutes rule.

I do know that at least one outfit a handful of years back management started to look hard at what some of the commuting by air cohort were doing and as a result guidance :bored: was issued, in some cases warnings were given and in at least one extreme case sanctions were applied.

[TheAirMission]

FWIW the sort of commutes lakes1952 describes still potentially exist in europe/UK, especially with some of the legacy Long Haul operators which may not have a strict live within x minutes rule.

I do know that at least one outfit a handful of years back management started to look hard at what some of the commuting by air cohort were doing and as a result guidance :bored: was issued, in some cases warnings were given and in at least one extreme case sanctions were applied.

Yes sure the LH guys at your airline has commuters from France etc and apparently Sydney, but its a very small number of pilots compared to the general population. Whereas in the States it is much more common. The point I was trying to make was that Lake's scenario was based on a LH pilot, whereas the fatigue in question was on SH rosters.

[Confusious]

Release date: 21/09/2017

Michael O’Leary, the Chief Executive of Ryanair, today said that pilot fatigue as a result of flying in short-haul operations does not exist, and that pilots fly a maximum of 18 hours a week. On both points we believe he is wrong.

Brian Strutton, BALPA General Secretary, said: “Fatigue is endemic in all kinds of commercial flying. To suggest that pilot fatigue in short-haul operations can only occur because of the pilot’s activities outside of work is, in our view, wrong.

“BALPA is worried about what message this is giving to pilots, and what effect this management attitude has on safety culture.

“Pilots are legally-bound to report their fatigue as it can have dangerous effects on pilot performance. Ryanair appears to be telling its pilots that if they report, their attitude will be that it’s the pilot’s own fault. This is not a good way to engender an open reporting culture.

“Additionally, the 18-hour figure that Mr O’Leary has come up with does not seem to have any basis in reality. Pilots’ flying and duty hours are rightly regulated in order to avoid fatigue. Current EU-level regulations limit pilots’ duty hours to 60 per week, and flying hours to 100 in 28 days.

“If Ryanair cared to share their pilots’ rosters with us we’d be happy to analyse them for fatigue.

“It is the responsibility of the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) to regulate Ryanair. I think they should look carefully at these comments by Mr O’Leary and decide whether they could give rise to concerns about the safety culture in that airline.”

[happyjack]

Not an airline but I cannot help but to remember the discussion I had with a Private Jet Management company that thought I was being unreasonable to refuse 36 hours between rests! Their arguement being that I had not flown for 3 days so I have aquired so much rest I could just go and go and go?

On a serious point these managers simply have no understanding of these issues. They see the FTL's as a hinderence, nothing more.

As I write this I am reminded of another situation... Moscow to Far East to Sydney, one crew! When I asked the idiot that accepted it he said "I need a job."

We are our own worst emenies?

[am111]

900 hours divided by 52 weeks=17.3 hours. He’s quite generous rounding up to 18!

I may have misread your tone, but in case it wasn’t sarcastic, your maths might be a little too simple there. It is in the busy summer months when you are working close to your max rolling duty limits and going into discretion because of delays beyond your control that you will easily exceed 17.3 flying hours. The past 3 days alone my roster has me flying 33 hours. That’s not including the scheduled or delayed time on the ground. Granted, we may get a respite in a few months in winter but that’s hardly very safety conscious.

[felixthecat]

I may have misread your tone, but in case it wasn’t sarcastic, your maths might be a little too simple there. It is in the busy summer months when you are working close to your max rolling duty limits and going into discretion because of delays beyond your control that you will easily exceed 17.3 flying hours. The past 3 days alone my roster has me flying 33 hours. That’s not including the scheduled or delayed time on the ground. Granted, we may get a respite in a few months in winter but that’s hardly very safety conscious.

You are far to generous. You are just quoting block time. Not including pre-flight post flight and the periods on the ground that can be quite long. Don’t also forget in the yearly 900 doesn’t include anything except block hours, no recurrency, no simulator, no training modules etc etc.

[RavenOne]

I understand the point you are trying to make. But over in Europe we simply do not have such commutes as the norm. Most airlines require their crew to be within 60-90 minutes standby at their assigned hub. This sort of commuting is impossible at low cost carriers in Europe during the working week.

WTF???
Seriously, we have commuters all over the place. Ryanair, EasyJet, LH Regional..... barely a fraction of these guys live where they work.
Edited: Yea, in the working week ya'll need a dump, otherwise it won't work. But then again who is seriously relocating?

[Clop_Clop]

Yeah bases for some locos also are bargaining chips as well, if a better deal comes along it's good bye. Better to stay put and commute in many cases i think the reasoning goes...

[kghjfg]

Move along, nothing to see here…
All companies have their own SOPs.

Usually the acronym is

IM SAFE

at Wizzair it’s

IM SAE

SLF aren’t interested, as long as it’s cheap.

[wiggy]

Just an observation - strangely enough almost every time there's talk of fatigue somebody pops up with "ah but the commuters"....somebody has even managed to hit double tops upthread by getting Air France and commuters in the same message...

That particular discussion has been had multiple times but often lacks specific detail but there's often just enough said to provide ammunition to help those who seem to like to think the job can't be that hard or that long days aren't a problem..............

Being an ex- Long Hauler (and commuter by air, so shoot me now) and not really understanding the concept of earlies and lates 'cos it's always early or late somewhere I'd be interested to see what sort of rosters Wizz crews were expected to work on a normal day.

[Jeez]

Roster pattern 14/7

More or less like this:
Day - Check in time - flights - Block time - Duty time

6:45 4 9:10 14:00
13:20 4 7:40 11:00
E-training
18:05 2 6:00 8:30
OFF
OFF
6:20 2 5:00 7:25
3:45 2 4:25 6:40
3:50 2 2:30 4:45
3:45 2 7:25 9:45
RSVD
11:20 2 4:30 6:50
OFF
OFF
7:00 2 3:30 5:30
5:20 2 5:50 8:50
4:55 2 7:00 9:10
5:00 2 6:45 9:05
7:00 4 8:05 11:30
12:30 2 6:00 9:15
OFF
OFF
5:00 2 4:10 6:05
5:05 2 6:00 8:15
8:30 2 5:35 9:45
SBY
4:45 2 4:10 6:20
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF
5:00 2 5:50 8:10
5:00 2 6:00 8:30
5:10 2 5:25 9:00 followed by E training
10:50 2 3:25 6:50
OFF
OFF
6:00 4 7:10 11:00
11:00 2 4:00 6:30
12:30 2 5:45 7:50
11:00 2 4:30 9:30
12:00 2 4:40 8:20
11:00 2 4:20 6:50
OFF
OFF
5:00 2 2:30 4:50
6:00 2 5:15 8:45
5:15 2 4:15 6:40
5:20 2 5:00 7:20
6:00 2 4:25 6:10 followed by E training
OFF
OFF
5:25 2 6:10 8:40
12:00 2 6:00 8:10
E training
SBY
11:10 2 4:30 9:00
E training

During this time I think I've been called four times from OFF, I accepted once.
There were more SBYs, which got replaced by duty.
There were some duties which got removed due to the 100 hr in 28 days limit.

In case you missed it, I'm on 14/7.

[Contact Approach]

IM SAFE from ever receiving a pension.

[JanetFlight]

Wowww...Jeez, if i may ask, and regarding salary, is it worth or not at all.? ..for example as a F/O with all that naughty roster you showed us, how much could be received by month?

[Jeez]

For those flights, you can expect 3k-5k € net depending in which country you are and whether you are senior or junior, married with kids or not.

Is it worth it?
Ask me that again on the second OFF when I realize it's time to force me to go to sleep for the next morning marathon, while I'm wondering if I had enough rest.

[Twiglet1]

Couldn't agree more. Well said. Oh hang on, we are allowed to think it as it's common knowledge. But we can't say it. This is the new master race of Europes airline. It's where national pride takes presidence, over safety. The ICAO official language is English. Except for the above.
Don't think its just the French that commute long distances before flying. Despite Colgan still happens in the US

[booze]

I remember my time in wizz was not too bad, rosters were 6/4 and getting vacation wasn't too difficult., changing bases were solely up to the individual's date of submission.

Things changed however around 2016/17 (that's why i left) with a new mob taking over BUD. Some smaller base closures followed with crews getting reassigned with short or no notice, random rosters on most bases became the new norm. Also base changing policy became somewhat less transparent favouring those closer to the inner circle, not answering your phone on your day off started to have repercussions like getting your vacation requests denied or reassigned by those very base captains and managers who were the go to guys on deciding the fate of 1000 employees back in April 2020.

Could it get any worse? It did as it seems.

Will the downward spiral stop? It's only up to you guys and gals in wizz at the moment.

[Theholdingpoint]

Couldn't agree more. Well said. Oh hang on, we are allowed to think it as it's common knowledge. But we can't say it. This is the new master race of Europes airline. It's where national pride takes presidence, over safety. The ICAO official language is English. Except for the above.

Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian, Spanish.

[wiggy]

Jeez

Many thanks for the roster info.......and :bored:


ATB

[common toad]

The CEO should be spoken to by the appropriate authority.

All Ops manuals will have a line that runs, “a pilot must not operate when fatigued’.

Easy to say when sat in my armchair, but until crew have the guts to call Ops and tell them they are fatigued then nothing will change.

And yes, I have done it myself, and I know of the pressure that follows. I also speak as someone who kept fit and avoided the parties down-route. So I also know why some complain of ‘fatigue’.

[sr71bbc]

Hello everyone I wish you all well,

anyone help me with advise or tips for wizz interview in Budapest this month,especially the test
applied as experienced A320 fo

thankyou everyone

[hobbit1983]

Hello everyone I wish you all well,

anyone help me with advise or tips for wizz interview in Budapest this month,especially the test
applied as experienced A320 fo

thankyou everyone

Have you actually read this thread...?

[Michael S]

When I saw this statement for the first time I couldn't believe in the blantant arogance of this CEO.
We all know these things are happening all the time, but it was all behind the curtain.
Going with it so openly is a whole new chapter.
I think it's a right time to make it a criminal offence coercing people to work shen fatigued.

[Nil by mouth]

Hello everyone I wish you all well,

anyone help me with advise or tips for wizz interview in Budapest this month,especially the test
applied as experienced A320 fo

thankyou everyone

Fail springs to mind!

[SOPS]

Hello everyone I wish you all well,

anyone help me with advise or tips for wizz interview in Budapest this month,especially the test
applied as experienced A320 fo

thankyou everyone

This has to be a wind up!!!

[Rwy in Sight]

If sr71bbc is helped to pass the interview maybe on less FO will be forced to work longer hours

[truckflyer]

“6th consecutive early”. They do that? Unbelievable. How many days to recover from that? Working that sort of roster is clearly not viable for anyone. The management should fly with a crew for a few weeks to appreciate quite how tiring it is. Well done the pilots for declaring unfit. It takes courage.
They used offer 6 days On and 4 days Off, and the other option was 6 On, 1 Off, 6 On and 7 days Off.
They rostered you with early start on Day 1, and late finish on Day 6, and would always have a transition from early to late duty, and very often have a double transition in one block.

Wizz crew do not have the balls to stand up against their CEO or management, it's a culture of fear.
Upper management are the bad apples, but this is the way they want it.

[Vokes55]

If sr71bbc is helped to pass the interview maybe on less FO will be forced to work longer hours

Nobody is forced to do anything. The aircraft doesn’t fly without the pilot, people need to grow a back bone. The company are in no position to be bullying the few pilots they have.

These clowns only speak in dollar signs. Things will only change when it hits the bottom line, and it gives me great pleasure to see that for Wizz it is significantly doing that.

[FUMR]

This has to be a wind up!!!

In any industry there will always be a percentage who will do whatever it takes to put food on the table. It's a fact of life.

[blind pew]

80s in the days of hand tuning aids and maps..4 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off and 6 on 3 off.
Early start first day..late finish last day.
Average 4 sector days but occasionally 5.
5 hour commute if lucky and often on the jump seat. 13 years to command (although had the hours before I started).
Impeccable short haul safety stats.
Physically fatigued but had that when I worked on building sites.

[hobbit1983]

80s in the days of hand tuning aids and maps..4 on 2 off, 5 on 3 off and 6 on 3 off.
Early start first day..late finish last day.
Average 4 sector days but occasionally 5.
5 hour commute if lucky and often on the jump seat. 13 years to command (although had the hours before I started).
Impeccable short haul safety stats.
Physically fatigued but had that when I worked on building sites.

Well, that's alright then!

(It is not the 80s any more.)

[Uplinker]

I don't know what the union situation is at Wizzair and others, but it is high time the union stepped in, grew some teeth and started taking positive action. Not just at Wizzair either.

Pleading that they hope the management will not penalise any pilots who report fatigued is just pathetic. It also puts the onus on individuals to take the very brave step of reporting fatigued. Following those comments by this CEO, all pilots should have been balloted on a series of 24 hour strikes.

Look at the railway union in the UK. They stand up for their members, and the members stand up for each other. (Train drivers training is paid for by the train operating companies, by the way). The pilots union has always been very weak, and they go along with most of what is thrown at them. Ditto the UK CAA.

The fact that we even have a fatigue reporting process is utterly ridiculous and bonkers. Pilots, of all people, should never be rostered anywhere near fatigue in the first place - they quite literally have the lives of 100 - 400 people in their hands.

I have often wondered whether the union management and airline pilot management and Company Council members have been secretly given lots of free benefits, e.g. free longhaul flights and holidays for their families by airlines to go along with whatever efficiencies the CEO wants to achieve.

In 2004 ish, I challenged the boss of Flybe about the number of 6 on 2 off duties we were doing but he just brushed it aside. Most were 4 sector days, we finished the 6 on lates, and started the next 6 on earlies, so our 2 days off was actually just over 1 day off, by the time we had recovered from the previous 6 days and had to go to sleep at about 1900 before the next 6 day duty. I stuck it out for 5 years then left, but too late - my marriage did not survive.

Come on union !! You are supposed to be protecting and standing up for your members, not helping the CEOs run their airlines. Get a grip and take some positive action. Our profession is halfway down the tubes already, you/we need to act now.

[Superpilot]

What the CEO says in an internally published video to his employees is probably a restrained version of the thoughts he has already shared with his senior leadership team. And what he has said to his senior leadership team is probably a very restrained version of what he is actually thinking.

[ATC Watcher]

Interesting discussion . This CEO is not afraid to bully its staff openly on video,disregarding legal consequemnces, But it is Hungary and its President Orban is doing exactly the same , and as he is geting away with it so others think they can do the same ..
That said as Hungary is in the EU they are protected by th 900 hours no ?
In ATC in some high density ACCs the number of hours this Sumer will be double that ( around 30/week actually on the position ), and most of those are constant full concentration busy traffic hours , including night nowadays with a booming cargo industry. A Euroepan centre has even introduced rosters 10 days on 1 off .... :*
Fatigue is not easily measurable and vary greatly from person to person but it is a safety issue, and bullying staff not to report it is crazy.

In his Video he says cancelling flights cost money and are bad for the brand name. He should read a bit hsitory and see what an accident does to an airline brand name and insurance premiums. .

[blind pew]

In the 70s he did a study and a report on fatigue and flight time limitations whose recommendations were watered down by the CAA or Board of Trade so very little changed. This wasn't helped by management fiddling them. We had a night Nicosia return which could not be operated legally if rostered but could if from airport reserve. The word went around and the captain on the one I was due to operate went sick.
Unfortunately we voted in a union rep who sold us down the river then resigned and went straight into management.
Used to do a Zurich Atlanta but in winter with the stronger winds on the Nat Tracks it required a double crew so the published schedule was changed.. we went with a normal crew and arrived an hour late...worse was pick up for the return flight when they pretended it was on time so we had a couple of hours sitting in departures waiting for the aircraft to arrive and be serviced.

[Alpine Flyer]

I don't know what the union situation is at Wizzair and others, but it is high time the union stepped in, grew some teeth and started taking positive action. Not just at Wizzair either.

Unfortunately a lot of pilots believe themselves to be too clever and/or are too cheap to join a union. We're even worse in the European theatre where ECA is fighting valiantly but with a lot less money than our employers spend on lobbying Brussels. Some things like policies against self-employment need to be lobbied / fought for in a kind of "coordinated dance" between Brussels and individual member states, some of which lack a functional pilot union.

Given the right resolve and coordination we could enjoy significantly better working conditions a lot less downward pressure but as a group we're just too stupid. The last time I looked at the figures less than half of European commercial pilots were in a union.

[Herod]

Alpine Flyer: that's a sobering figure for membership. I was a member of BALPA while working (still a retired member), and they twice did things that paid my membership fees many times over.

[Confusious]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news/veteran-wizz-air-pilots-speak-27250465

[MLKNWL]

What a bummer...Not too surprising from them though

[WB627]

If he thinks cancelling a flight is expensive, he should try having an accident :mad:

[Confusious]

If he thinks cancelling a flight is expensive, he should try having an accident :mad:
He's on the same level as O'Leary. There's one in Easy too, but fortunately he doesn't have the same power.

[Less Hair]

MOL is certainly well aware of safety and external brand image.

[Confusious]

MOL is certainly well aware of safety and external brand image.
Is the brand image good?

[calypso]

If the ONLY thing you care about is price, yes.

[Confusious]

If the ONLY thing you care about is price, yes.
Agreed.
Purely out of interest do you think that there is widespread unhappiness within the workforce?

[WideScreen]

Is the brand image good?
I think, the Ryanair brand image is top-notch:
- Low price
- You get what you pay for
- Fly everywhere
- Pretty reliable for the passengers (IE little excuses to "not" fly, cancel)
- A significant company drive to adhere to the flying schedule
- In general, "new aircraft".
- Safe

And, despite all the complaining at PP, this biggest EU airline never lost a hull/passenger due to an avoidable aspect (birds aren't controllable and airport responsibility anyway ....), which is a respectable situation, given the huge scale of SH-only operations, the secondary airfields they fly and adherence to the schedule.

For complaints about the flight hour limitations, one needs to be at EASA, not at the airlines.....

[Confusious]

I think, the Ryanair brand image is top-notch:
- Low price
- You get what you pay for
- Fly everywhere
- Pretty reliable for the passengers (IE little excuses to "not" fly, cancel)
- A significant company drive to adhere to the flying schedule
- In general, "new aircraft".
- Safe

And, despite all the complaining at PP, this biggest EU airline never lost a hull/passenger due to an avoidable aspect (birds aren't controllable and airport responsibility anyway ....), which is a respectable situation, given the huge scale of SH-only operations, the secondary airfields they fly and adherence to the schedule.

For complaints about the flight hour limitations, one needs to be at EASA, not at the airlines.....
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/airlines/article/airlines/best-and-worst-airlines-a5EhC8N851et

[slast]

Front page headline of today's Financial Times....
"Ryanair chief warns fares will rise for 5 years because flying is ‘too cheap’

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary, the pioneer of low-cost travel in Europe, has warned fares will rise for the next five years because flying has become “too cheap” to make profits as industry costs spiral. His warning comes as ticket prices have risen in Europe and the US this summer as passengers return and some airlines cut capacity because of staff shortages.
“It’s got too cheap for what it is. I find it absurd every time that I fly to Stansted, the train journey into central London is more expensive than the air fare,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times. He said he expected a combination of high oil prices and environmental charges to push the average Ryanair fare up from €40 to between €50 to €60 over the medium term.
O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”

[WideScreen]

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/airlines/article/airlines/best-and-worst-airlines-a5EhC8N851et
Yep, a low score, though that does not imply, the airline isn't popular. Ryanair does have strict "rules", try to cheat on these, and it is going to cost you a fortune. Just follow their rules and you know what you get. Don't agree with the rules: Pay more for a legacy carrier and complain to.

Front page headline of today's Financial Times....
"Ryanair chief warns fares will rise for 5 years because flying is ‘too cheap’

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary, the pioneer of low-cost travel in Europe, has warned fares will rise for the next five years because flying has become “too cheap” to make profits as industry costs spiral. His warning comes as ticket prices have risen in Europe and the US this summer as passengers return and some airlines cut capacity because of staff shortages.
“It’s got too cheap for what it is. I find it absurd every time that I fly to Stansted, the train journey into central London is more expensive than the air fare,” he said in an interview with the Financial Times. He said he expected a combination of high oil prices and environmental charges to push the average Ryanair fare up from €40 to between €50 to €60 over the medium term.
O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”
Yep, Brexit disaster, Covid-19, Russian invasion into Ukraine and you have the main reasons why ticket pricing goes up. Across the board, for all airlines (tried to book J class long-distance ? Costs a fortune now). When Putin gets assassinated, the energy price landscape will change dramatically.

And, yep, land-based transport does cost a fortune, simply because that area is only 2-dimensional and being used in competition with a huge amount of other activities.

[SamYeager]

O’Leary also fired a broadside at the British government and what he called “the disaster” of Brexit that had stopped airlines easily recruiting European
workers, which the industry says has worsened staff shortages this summer. “This is without doubt one of the inevitable consequences of the disaster that
has been Brexit,” he said. “Withdrawing from the single market, just so that they can say ‘We got Brexit done’ was the height of idiocy. But then they are idiots.”
Presumably this explains why there's no staff shortages at EU & US airports and airlines then? Perish the thought!

[WideScreen]

Presumably this explains why there's no staff shortages at EU & US airports and airlines then? Perish the thought!
The Brexit disaster did organize this whole mess, did start earlier in the UK and seems to be a much deeper economic effect than the ROW.

[Confusious]

Peter Bellew bailed out of Easyjet today. Probably couldn't use the bully behaviour that he did in Ryanair due to the resolve of the unions. Let's all hope that he isn't heading over to Wizzair or any other airline for that matter.

[Splat]

Bellend was a toxic individual who should not be in aviation.

[Alsacienne]

PB's departure will be of benefit to EZY though it may be some time before the light shines in the darkness ...