DOHA ATCO 2022 [Archive]

ATC alert

31st May 2022, 19:23

Well 10 years later since I was last there and Doha unfortunately is still doing it wrong. The QCAA is on a recruitment hunt but they've contracted an absolutely amuteur organization ENAV or Fusion as they advertise to do the hiring. Complete morons the interview was rediculous then the invite to an assessment 3 days after weeks of wondering how the interview went. Then all candidates passed the assessment but only 2 of 5 were hired by Doha. I believe there is now a conflict between the QCAA and "Fusion". No I wasn't a part of this assessment I just had the information passed to me from someone who was.

Don't waste your valuable time unless your desperate... steer clear of Doha. They've been doing it wrong for a long time and judging from their latest partnership have no hope of getting it right in the near future.Just read the Qatar posts about ATC for the last 15 years on here and decide for yourself. I can tell you I've worked here as well as other ME locations and Doha is the bottom of the barrel as an employer.

Yes if you have no other choice, come from a horrible place or are a third world controller you might consider this but all of the experienced, desired and professional controllers stay away from Qatar.

The Middle East in general is still not paying enough with any of the ANS providers to compensate for the high cost of living there and the geographic armpit of the world to live. Life is more valuable then a few tax free dollars they grab back anyways in accommodation and living expenses. .

lethalindu

1st Jun 2022, 09:11

Do you know what kind of package they were offered? Were they hired for TWR/APP or the "soon" to be opened ACC?

ATC alert

3rd Jun 2022, 02:11

Wow I list the many reasons why you should never consider Doha and the history of this employer and yet there are always those ready to be slaves!

Yes I know the package and its better then most in the region and they have to offer that why??? Because their reputation is catching up with them and most intelligent experienced controllers just won't go near them until the money gets absurd. It's not there yet!!!

Don't worry about the package or what they are hiring for....STAY AWAY!

Plazbot

4th Jun 2022, 08:50

What exactly is the package?

Bitter n Twisted

5th Jun 2022, 14:30

Don't be too quick to listen to the bitter rantings of the OP. Yes there is a lot that still needs improved in Doha ATC. Nowhere is perfect and this place is certainly no exception. OP is almost certainly "misspeaking" about not being part of the recent assessment. I hear there were 5 assessed, not all passed the practical and of those that did, some were rejected due to other factors. Its no good being a great controller if nobody wants to work with you eh? He is ranting like a lunatic about how terrible this place is but was desperate to come back? I smell a rotten rat in there somewhere.
Anyone for sour grapes? I'm sure it sucks to be basically unemployable due to your reputation even though you are a perfectly capable controller.
Anyway the bottom line is there are a lot worse places to work in the world and all of them are worse paid than here.
Is it everyone's ideal destination? Definitely not. Are the QCAA the worst employer in the region? 100% no!
Do your own research. I think the money is probably the best in the world right now. A lot of that is because there is some **** to put up with. Don't listen to Doha's least favorite black sheep.

Equivocal

5th Jun 2022, 22:56

Wow I list the many reasons why you should never consider Doha and the history of this employer and yet there are always those ready to be slaves!Whilst one controller may be relatively established in their career and happy with where they are, there will be others who are still climbing the ladder - getting more substantial experience and something potentially useful on their CVs - who may, quite reasonably consider a position that others would not even think about. Is it fair to disparage those who are not in such as fortunate a place as we may be? I write as someone who took some pretty dire jobs early in my career which I consider paid off in the long run (others, of course, may not agree).

FlyingSaucepan

10th Jun 2022, 06:10

Has anyone who's applied heard anything back yet?

Would appreciate any Doha controllers sending me a PM to discuss the unit/package too

Thanks

FlyingOctopus

11th Jun 2022, 07:40

Has anyone who's applied heard anything back yet?

Would appreciate any Doha controllers sending me a PM to discuss the unit/package too

Thanks
Would also appreciate to get info on the package! Thanks

MynameisInigoMontoya

12th Jun 2022, 17:33

What’s the latest on QCAA grabbing a sizeable chunk of the Bahrain FIR? I guess they will be hiring for area controllers in preparation for the airspace grab.
will it happen before the World Cup?

CPT4B

14th Jun 2022, 20:28

Would any current Doha ATCO mind messaging me on here? I’m trying to find out some more details about the current state of things.
Thanks!

Nimmer

15th Jun 2022, 16:13

Any news or possibility of short term contracts for the World Cup?

Farrell

23rd Jun 2022, 13:48

I've heard that the DOH package is 60,000 QAR a month plus accommodation.

BAH is around 4500 BHD I think, with school fees for two kids but no accommodation.

MCT (3500 OMR) has lost several expat staff to BAH with more heading there soon, if salaries don't change.

Sad to see good friends leaving, but salaries have been reduced and business being business, folks are voting with their feet.

That being said, lifestyle-wise, I'd still choose MCT any day.

lethalindu

23rd Jun 2022, 15:33

I've heard that the DOH package is 6,000 QAR a month plus accommodation.

BAH is around 4500 BHD I think, with school fees for two kids but no accommodation.

MCT (3500 OMR) has lost several expat staff to BAH with more heading there soon, if salaries don't change.

Sad to see good friends leaving, but salaries have been reduced and business being business, folks are voting with their feet.

That being said, lifestyle-wise, I'd still choose MCT any day.

I hope u missed a zero, otherwise this is modern day slavery :)

Farrell

23rd Jun 2022, 16:21

I hope u missed a zero, otherwise this is modern day slavery :)

Ah yes! 🤣 now corrected!

davys747

23rd Jun 2022, 20:44

I sent an email to Bahrain and was advised that they weren't hiring right now?

Is MCT Muscat? I'd be interested in working there but I heard they were hiring either?

MynameisInigoMontoya

24th Jun 2022, 07:20

I sent an email to Bahrain and was advised that they weren't hiring right now?

Is MCT Muscat? I'd be interested in working there but I heard they were hiring either?

BAH just hired 4, very short staffed, no predictability in the roster, no notice changes.
However, once Doha take over a sizeable chunk of the Bahrain FIR job security becomes a real issue. Last contract included 5% salary reduction post covid. Current contract expires 2023.

lethalindu

2nd Jul 2022, 08:20

Any news from Qatar? Did anyone get a reply on latest job ad from Fusion Technology?

Oakley 22

2nd Jul 2022, 10:41

Well chaps and chappettes,
Interesting reading and a few interesting facts…….but isn’t there always 2 sides to every story??
I wouldn’t normally take an interest in politics and gossip, and I’d also like to point out I have NEVER posted on here before! however as this seems to have gotten personal and unprofessional I feel I should interject .

FACT…….I have worked in Doha, with some genuinely nice , capable people both local and expat , it was and I’m sure still is an exciting and challenging place to work.

FACT……like everywhere it’s not perfect, but had and still does have the potential to be great , if personal opinions, gossip and unfounded speculation were put aside for the sake of protecting people and the countries reputation…….and a robust recruitment strategy…..based on FACT….put in place…..are you qualified, YES have you passed the assessment, YES , can you do the job YES ……..it’s highly unprofessional for someone to suggest that a person is unemployable due to hearsay, gossip and conjecture……there will ALWAYS be differences of opinion within organisations and individuals.
Unlike the present , where false promises, inaccurate timeframes, and most astonishing of all ……(although Fusion and ENAV have been subcontracted to recruit) and by the posters own admission , ‘ people are NOT recruited on ability first’ the ultimate decision still seems to rest with 1 or 2 individuals , with little or NO radar experience, who have been entrusted to deem suitability on behalf of the QCAA……based on hearsay, gossip and unfounded conjecture…..rather than safety ,ability and FACT!

FACT……it is tipped to be the one of the busiest airports in the world for the the World Cup period, with traffic projections like nothing seen before……quote from a representative at the selection process
“ the current staffing situation is at crisis point….we need YOU yesterday…..without you and others like you the system and colleagues are F****D …..and it’s not IF….but WHEN safety will be compromised!! “. ..unfortunately the recruiting process to date seems to be fundamentally flawed, putting not only work colleagues at great risk but also the reputation and public face of QATAR…….the eyes of the world WILL be on you!

Maybe I’m wrong, but surely the common sense and SAFE approach would be to put aside personal opinions/ differences ……and trust the FACTS
1… Are you Qualified…..YES
2….Have you passed the assessment. YES
3….Can you do the job. YES

Get these people in on a temporary contract……call it a probation/ suitability period….and make up your own opinions based on personal experience NOT gossip or hearsay!
After all……this is NO Joke…..it’s not a game! It’s the personal welfare of the current staff, the safety of the operation and THE REPUTATION of QATAR that are at stake…..

So put any personal opinions , gossip and hearsay…..back in the box for a while, do the decent , right and safe thing for QATAR and your colleagues and recruit on FACTS !

THE EYES of THE WORLD WILL be watching!!

atcpino

2nd Jul 2022, 13:53

Well chaps and chappettes,
Interesting reading and a few interesting facts…….but isn’t there always 2 sides to every story….
!

YES! FACTS! Wholeheartedly agree with you!

Although I think people will show up here again, to defend the couple incapable people who make decisions based on…yeah based on what?

Why ask people to apply if you are not going to take them anyway. (Mind you I was ASKED!!! to apply)
And then basically end up hearing nothing from
Fusion (although all 5 who came in for the
assessment were told they passed the
assessment) for over a month now.
Meanwhile the rumors are only two out of the five are hired.

Who hired those amateur recruiters? In what
world is this professional behavior?

ATC alert

4th Jul 2022, 00:42

As the person who originated the thread I want to acknowledge many good, ACCURATE, and valids points by ATCPino and Oakley.

Yes controllers will head there again, money and employment have that effect.

Personal opinions when accompanied with a high degree of accuracy is what this platform is all about. So asking to remove opinions really isn't practical. I started this thread with historical accuracy as well as experience as they relate to Doha and the QCAA. Again I encourage searches of Doha threads over the past 10-15 years.

What is also so absolutely accurate is Doha has always had a poster child or two whom is grateful the QCAA gave them a chance and opportunity at employment as they were not employable at most other ANS providers. It seems Bitter n Twisted has picked up where Curtis and a couple of others left off after years of defending the QCAA. You won't find them so proud of Doha any longer and Twisted will find themselves in the same position at some point.

This new recruiter is very disorganized and unprofessional. In the first couple of weeks they replaced their administrator of the Doha project with another incompetent lead (many of us know him from other locations). While I agree Fusion is in a no-win situation dealing with a couple of complete morons in Doha Fusion needs to assert themselves or walk away. While Serco has some faults they would never continue a recruitment agreement with a non-professional organization like Doha hence their departure from Doha in 2014.

Facts for "Twisted post"
5 ATCO's attended the assessment, all 5 passed. Confirmed by Fusion. Then Doha morons got involved and said they only wanted 2 of 5 ATCO's that passed and also disqualified a few other qualified, experienced ATCO's slated for next rounds of assessments. Now they are forced to offer ATCO's who have no Approach experience assessment rides, ATCO's with little high density experience.. They are calling around to foreign agencies asking about any controllers recently retired, close to retiring etc.. YES they are desperate, their actions continue to reinforce this.

Yes Doha has the potential to be great. I too have worked here and I had hoped the new contact would prove to be encouraging that Doha had indeed changed. I really wanted to believe I might join an improved and wonderful place. We have all made great friends at ME locations and Doha was no exception but nearly all of us are always pushed away for a number of reasons no matter how much we appreciate the friendships.

Oakley's comments that highlight the important aspect of flight safety is spot on mate. While opinions and personal experiences are enlightening the most serious consequence of this condition in Doha is being led or influenced by some unqualified morons which has always kept Doha dangerously close to a tragic consequence. The replacement of Curtis by a fella (ATCO) from Portugal and another sidekick who have absolutely zero ability to do the job and even less ability to determine whom are the better ATCO solutions for new hires at Doha.

If the QCAA wants to be a responsible provider of Air Navigation Services it should remove itself and its minions and underlings from all hiring and employment at Doha. Let an experienced and reputable (not Fusion) organization come in and staff this operation and run it like a professional provider should. In other words Doha and QCAA get out of the ANS business.

Boneidle

30th Jul 2022, 10:53

Just seen this thread and thought I’d add a few more facts to highlight the sheer desperation ENAV and QCAA have reached …..
The debacle continues……Seats have now been potentially filled …. I say potentially, as most new recruits are either from a retirement pool , or Eastern Europe ( Hmmmm…..isn’t the new Fusion recruiter Eastern European……coincidence??….or jobs for friends/ desperation to fill slots with candidates the QCAA NON RADAR qualified ??? gatekeeper’s approve off?? ( I mean REALLY??? How can they make recruitment decisions on radar positions without radar experience?)

Now I have nothing personal against anyone from anywhere , however with very little experience of Heavy and complex traffic, no APS rating or any experience of approach/ director , licences NOT been verified and still NOT prior to employment…. allegedly…….This is NOT just reckless, its almost tantamount to what could be classed as pre meditated manslaughter…….putting people in positions that they are not qualified for or have experience of……just to fill a contract quota…
.Public SAFETY is CLEARLY a Low priority!……I wonder what the worlds press will make of it all ?? Remember QCAA gatekeeper ….the WORLD is watching!!

Now it’s not the new employee’s fault they have probably been fed the same fabrication that was fed to the initial ENAV/ Fusion trawl ……..however they along with the older hats will be on the front line and under the microscope……and NOT if……But WHEN it all goes wrong……..the investigation will highlight these reckless actions and the buck will stop with the ATCO in the seat!! ( after a stint in a local government establishment)

COME on Qatar, for the sake of PUBLIC SAFETY , the COUNTRY’s reputation , and protecting the workforce………
GET the Recruitment sorted!! Experience and Qualifications will ALWAYS support safety ……..the lack of…will NOT!

AusControl

31st Jul 2022, 09:44

Good evening all,

Could any current Doha controllers PM me about the package and living conditions over there?

Cheers

Somwhere out there

2nd Aug 2022, 11:27

Very interesting reading people.

A few years ago there was a post on here asking about the package and conditions for working in Doha. I was following it at the time as I was interested myself and there was a very honest and frank reply from whom I believe was a current radar controller listing the pros and cons. Sadly that post disappeared very quickly, not sure why, but if I remember correctly it painted a damning picture of unprofessional management and job instability.

Undeterred I sought a second, and third, opinion from forwarded contacts which resulted in similar confidential replies.

On top of that it appeared that the recruitment process was nothing short of farcical with nothing more than a quick practical assessment determining whether you got the job or not. No personal or professional interviews with HR or any other department for that matter and it largely coming down to whether the one individual recruiter considered you compatible. I was actually told in a more recent follow up that certain previous controllers had been rejected because the recruiter wasn’t friendly with them irrespective of their ability to perform their duties which also adds credibility to some of the comments above.

I can’t comment as to whether that particular recruiter is still in position, I would hope not, but reading this thread it would appear that the process hasn't developed since then and it comes as no surprise to learn those making the decisions remain either unqualified or lacking experience in such matters.

For the record I didn’t apply back then and this isn’t a bitter and twisted follow up, I merely wanted to add my own experience and research to what has already been stated.

It’s disappointing that a unit of this stature doesn’t operate in a more professional manner as this would likely result in a more competitive selection pool considering the attractive package but it’s not difficult to see why people are reluctant to gamble on a move to Qatar when all of the past threads on this site are so negative.

I’m still at the stage where a move could appeal so if anybody, apart from the probable QCAA manager in this thread, has anything reassuring to add could they please do so or DM me privately.

gravenberg3000

3rd Aug 2022, 09:13

Good afternoon;
Hamad ANSP is, was and will always be understaffed. In particular the Approach Radar staffing. Right now we may have the numbers (some have questioned the recruiting, but that is misplaced), but all signs point to many of those hastily employed will be terminated after the World Cup next year. This is to return to a budget that does not drain the QCAA. A 2019 budget. With the looming Acc sector that seems almost idiotic, welcome to HAMAD Internationals (QCAA AND) approach to business management. Everything but everything is knee jerk, there is no progressive thinking. Change is forced.

Lot of people here are blaming ENAV/Fusion and IBG for certain recruiting methods resulting in incorrect individuals. You’re painting the wrong kangaroo mate. Blame QCAA. Since December 2010 they have been aware that they will host the World Cup in 2022. 12 years. 144 months. 4380 days. When did they begin planning for the World Cup?? In late 2021, and even then it was reluctant. Infrastructure around the rest of the country was on track. Accommodation, transport , common areas, entertainment etc etc. Everyone watched terrified as there was simply nothing done year after year after year. COVID cannot be blamed for this. Incidentally, there is quite a significant number of staff that want out. The obvious choice is the slicker and far superior managed ANSP’s to Hamad’s east. Many have successfully completed APC’s, but have yet to be employed by them as there was begging by their superiors (superiors at HAMAD) not to employ them just yet with the World Cup so close. Whether this holds remains to be seen but it’s safe to say the relationship now with those individuals that want to leave is tenuous at best. This is not the first time that begging took place not to take individuals from HAMAD, and it will not be the last. There is no learning curve here. It’s actually a very trusted method by the AND that’s stood the test of time. That methodology is simple yet very effective, Do everything the same way over and over again and expect different results each time. What could possibly go wrong? Works every-time.

There is lovely new equipment (hard and software. Software receiving regular updates), new airport, new procedures, yet the actual day to day operations are no different to that of the 80’s / 90’s. Ask any of the controllers if they know the full functional capability of the equipment they are using? It’s all hit & miss. None have been trained on the equipment. Training of course was available but staffing was too critical to release for training. Current understanding is self taught which we all know translates to trial and tribulation. Not the best approach to an ANSP that is home base to the fastest growing airline globally. The safety department and ATFM department exist in name and documentation only. This is to satisfy regulation and auditors. They even have a department fully staffed to address ATFM, but in actual practise, it has not been allowed to be implemented. Do you honestly for one moment believe that QTR AWY’s will allow themselves to be dictated to at home base ?? Never gonna happen. Everything here is based on expedition. If you dare think of placing a ‘hold for release’ on any aircraft, you’re questioned. Seen as a weak or incompetent controller. Never cancel the automated release. That thinking resulted in the most terrifying near collision I’ve ever seen here, in Dec 2020.

Revolved around the annual National Day celebrations and a B787 (QTR AWY’s) and a SuperMushshak (PAC MFI-17) trainer from the QEAF. Came within feet of each other. All the result of the unreasonable focus on expedition. There have been others, but to show just how expedition overrides safety here, that is the absolute worst I’ve seen. Losses of separation here are a weekly affair. The aeroficial tool cannot lie. Wake loss on dep/arr and sep loss in the TMA. Simply run roughshod over. A scapegoat will always be found (never a local of course) and you will either be thrown in jail or fired.

You cannot blame the controllers applying here, many of them believe that operations world wide are similar. Come to Hamad if you’re really looking for a challenge, you will absolutely find it here. However, know that the only thing standing between you and being fired is your individual ability. If your experience background is one of strict regulation, maybe this is not the unit for you.

Mary Of Scots

4th Aug 2022, 07:52

This sort of ‘party line’ orientated forum does little for me. This is a little removed from the intent of this thread, however a colleague brought something to my attention and I thought it worthwhile that I add my penny’s worth. Having controlled in Qatar (first OTBD then OTHH Aerodrome) for a while I have seen numerous controllers come and go. Comes with being a contract worker. Fun bucket full or money bucket full ?, then bye bye. A few people mentioned the name Curtis in earlier posts. Biggest loss to Air Traffic Control in QCAA. There is much speculation as to why he was made redundant during COVID, most notably age and years of service. I call bull****!! However, as to the person, he was the full package. Very easy on the eye, charming, very intelligent, well read and treated everyone with the same respect. He was kind hearted but did not suffer fools easily. However, what he was best respected for was his controlling. He was in a league of his own. It’s hard to describe really, but to say he was good was ridiculous. He was at a level waaaay above everyone else. Yes there are many good controllers here, you have to be, you’re forced out of your comfort zone. However, he was unique. It could be absolutely suicidal crazy and Curtis was monotone in his controlling. Cool, calm, focussed. He was even able to joke and put other people at ease while he was handing ridiculous high levels of traffic. I never even heard of such a high quality of controlling before I came to Doha. To see him in action was a once in a lifetime experience. Everyone liked and respected him. Yes there were and are those jealous of him, but I don’t think he even noticed. He probably will never read this, but Doha will never see that high level of controlling ever again and they are all the poorer for it. It shows today, the working environment here has taken a distinct nasty downward turn since his departure. As to this being a Middle East option for controllers looking for adventure, I wish I was able to, but cannot answer the many questions that linger about this place. I’ve adapted somehow. However know that by coming here you are on your own. Even being extremely good at your job is absolutely no security at all. Good luck to all who apply.

Vlad the Impaler

5th Aug 2022, 09:55

I have managed to keep out of this thread so far. There is a sad grain of truth running through a lot of what has been posted but it is deeply buried in huge piles of bull**** such that I don't have the time or energy to address every point, suffice to say that a lot of what has been written is heavily tainted with bitterness and a large majority of it is factually incorrect or totally fabricated. Either way it is not a happy ship at the moment.
So what has dragged me from my soporific silence? Post #26!
I laughed at the earlier references to the turning point being when Curtis was sacked. The position of Fornicater in Chief has never been truly filled since his departure although a few are certainly doing their best. What else he brought to the table I'm not sure. I am certain the only person who could hold Curtis in such high regard as the author of post 26 is the man himself. Easy on the eye? 🤣 He might have been 20 years ago in a dimly lit room. As for the description of his godlike ATC ability I recall a very similarly worded tribute popping up after he was fired. Most people I know who worked closely with him have a very different view. I wasn't sure then but now I'm positive it was written by Curtis himself. The creation of a new account for the posting of this sycophantic fan fiction does little to dissuade me of my view.
Anyway, back to the shadows for me.

Rwy1234

5th Aug 2022, 18:49

A few people mentioned the name Curtis in earlier posts. Biggest loss to Air Traffic Control in QCAA. There is much speculation as to why he was made redundant during COVID, most notably age and years of service. I call bull****!! However, as to the person, he was the full package. Very easy on the eye, charming, very intelligent, well read and treated everyone with the same respect. He was kind hearted but did not suffer fools easily. However, what he was best respected for was his controlling. He was in a league of his own. It’s hard to describe really, but to say he was good was ridiculous. He was at a level waaaay above everyone else. Yes there are many good controllers here, you have to be, you’re forced out of your comfort zone. However, he was unique. It could be absolutely suicidal crazy and Curtis was monotone in his controlling. Cool, calm, focussed. He was even able to joke and put other people at ease while he was handing ridiculous high levels of traffic. I never even heard of such a high quality of controlling before I came to Doha. To see him in action was a once in a lifetime experience. Everyone liked and respected him. Yes there were and are those jealous of him, but I don’t think he even noticed. He probably will never read this, but Doha will never see that high level of controlling ever again and they are all the poorer for it. It shows today, the working environment here has taken a distinct nasty downward turn since his departure. As to this being a Middle East option for controllers looking for adventure, I wish I was able to, but cannot answer the many questions that linger about this place. I’ve adapted somehow. However know that by coming here you are on your own. Even being extremely good at your job is absolutely no security at all. Good luck to all who apply.

Is that the same Curtis that murdered 15 cats when he departed?

Oakley 22

10th Aug 2022, 20:27

Hi again chaps and chappettes,

Didn’t think I’d be back on here again so quick……but it seems QCAA have outdone themselves this time,
ALL Leave Cancelled From 15th with less than 2 weeks notice….so any pending approved leave cancelled, no financial reimbursement , no leave carry over above the yearly carry over quota (22days) and no repayment of excess leave above the quota …….WOW a HUGE Financial hit for ALL , not such an attractive deal now !!
What a GENIUS move……just when you need all hands on deck and the full co-operation of the grass roots ladies and gents…….you pull the rug away, morale goes through the floor, co-operation and motivation disappears and I can’t begin to imagine what toll the resulting Guaranteed fatigue and almost certain staff reduction ( I would be very surprised if there isn’t a few jumping overboard prior to the ship sinking irrespective of any financial incentives that may have to be returned……and I don’t blame them!! ) WILL have on SAFETY….???

I have this on EXCEPTIONALLY good authority, First hand…..and the reason being, the training is that far behind…..it is BEYOND repair!! People are scrabbling around with NO idea what to do…..and panic measures are now being rolled out…..

GOOD LUCK Everyone……and let’s hope it’s someone else in the seat……when THE DISASTER happens!!

gravenberg3000

12th Aug 2022, 08:57

The entire Qatar ANS / AND is a joke at best, a massive risk at worse with zero mitigation.

Bahrain and the UAE are vehemently opposing the QFIR as they know QCAA is not qualified to manage an FIR. The veneer of the QCAA ANS being a well managed organisational system is wearing off very very quickly. Incompetence, mistruths and misdirection that used to seem to work in the past, is not working anymore.

There is now on average a 160 losses of wake turbulence on final approach a month between Heavy & Heavy and about 140 between Heavy & Medium. Roughly 20 % average of all acft on final into Hamad International Airport are vectored below wake sep with nothing being done. That is just HIA final. Doha International Airport and Al Udeid are a separate matter entirely and exponentially increase those numbers. In Feb / March 2022, at least a 145 sep losses on departure by Tower with less than 4nm between them which obviously translates to a Radar separation loss as well in most cases. Bare in mind, as I stated before, “Hold for release” is not allowed under any circumstances and if it happens, pretty much encourages an “investigation” !? Some as low as 2nm between H & H. IF, and that is a big IF, dependent on nationality, when the occasional investigation does happen, it’s cursory in the case of certain individuals and damning in the case of others. Yet, none of this info was / is shared either with the regulator or IBG.

There has been a direct threatening of certain staff members in the last 18 months with employment services termination if they dared to leak details of one or any of certain very severe incidents. It’s pretty much an open secret amongst all staff members.

In the TMA alone there are on average 10 technical losses of separation a week going un-investigated, often at times despite reports from airlines involved.

The Safety Dept is no doubt withholding info from the IBG safety manager as there seems to be zero rehabilitative or corrective training happening. The only way to gauge if in fact information IS being shared, is the result of that sharing. There seems to now be no doubt that intentional concealment of facts as they definitely did not want IBG to obtain access to this data for fear of the response they will receive in the form of recommendations . IBG I am certain has now for some time suspected a break down in information sharing, but thus far has been unable to confirm. Bare in mind, this type of concealment does NOT happen at low level management (safety / compliance) without approval / instigation or in some cases, insistence from more senior levels of management.

Many a time QCAA ANS has somehow in the past been able to “wing” it and survive. That survival almost always was played as a “huge success”. Of course, that was never the case.

The category of this media page / site is rarely paid attention to. Often it’s one of two things that govern that, one being to ignore and just hope to hell that nothing goes wrong and two, most commentary is viewed as that of an aggrieved party. This is not entirely unexpected. There does seem to however be a difference this time as I’m lead to believe that numerous communications have out of desperation been sent to international organisation’s that govern ATM safety and practices, including those of the Middle East. All from individuals within the employ of QCAA. The interesting part is that it was NOT the World Cup that drove those communications, but base levels of concern for safety practices and continued intentional comprising of safety standards, ineptitude of management and incorrect employment methodology. A major incident (aside from the potential monumental tragedy) can and will prove hugely embarrassing to all concerned as pretty much everything raised as concerns in this thread has now for well over 30 odd months been communicated to these organisations.

Vlad the Impaler

12th Aug 2022, 16:25

"There is now on average a 160 losses of wake turbulence on final approach a month between Heavy & Heavy and about 140 between Heavy & Medium. Roughly 20 % average of all acft on final into Hamad International Airport are vectored below wake sep with nothing being done. That is just HIA final. Doha International Airport and Al Udeid are a separate matter entirely and exponentially increase those numbers. In Feb / March 2022, at least a 145 sep losses on departure by Tower with less than 4nm between them which obviously translates to a Radar separation loss as well in most cases. Bare in mind, as I stated before, “Hold for release” is not allowed under any circumstances and if it happens, pretty much encourages an “investigation” !? Some as low as 2nm between H & H. IF, and that is a big IF, dependent on nationality, when the occasional investigation does happen, it’s cursory in the case of certain individuals and damning in the case of others. Yet, none of this info was / is shared either with the regulator or IBG"

Somebody is on hallucinogens and needs to hand back their medical ASAP.
This is such a huge load of bollocks. I have just been through the figures and can assure anyone who cares that the figures quoted above are beyond ridiculous. As for all this IBG safety manager stuff? What the **** does IBG have to do with our operation? They don't have a safety manager and if they do he/she certainly has nothing to do with QCAA ops. So many posts on this thread stink to high heaven but this one has a particularly bad stench. All I can say is be very careful what you believe on the interweb.I'm not sure what data we should be obliged to share with IBG who we pay as a contractor. I am certain that all mandatory occurrence reports and investigations thereof are shared with the regulator automatically. Whoever wrote this post is either incredibly badly informed, a total idiot or very probably both.
There is a lot of anti QCAA stuff on this thread as is natural. It is a time of high stress and given the nature of the region everything is not what it should be. Pprune is an unregulated forum where morons can and do vent their spleens whilst spewing "facts" which are subject to no verification, checking or any other kind of sanity checking. Nonetheless you would be well advised to take the large majority of the contents of this thread with a pinch of salt.
Even the post about Curtis murdering 15 cats before he left is fiction. It was actually 37. Bastard.

Bitter n Twisted

12th Aug 2022, 18:48

Be an air traffic controller they said. Great job, travel the world, work with intelligent people who have their heads screwed on. Two out of three is not a "technical loss" I suppose. What a bunch of c#£ts. I'm ashamed.

Holyhead

15th Aug 2022, 09:25

It would appear the majority of the posters here are correct. Doha seems to be a very toxic place to work. Goodbye team work. No thanks !!

CancelStartup

20th Aug 2022, 08:46

Wow, quite the read. Fragile egos and broken noses at Doha aside, it still sounds like a challenge, so do they have any final cheque or end of service benefit scheme? This seems to be the one point not covered here then. Serco, GAL and most direct hires in the Middle East, except Oman, seem to have one that is unlimited. I would appreciate any info, maybe a pm would be a good way of dealing with this one.

FLEX SRS

27th Aug 2022, 10:11

More threats from management regarding freedom of speech and general working procedures. Watch changes in the radar unit with no warning is the latest. Now radar controllers will be working new airspace, on new equipment, with new and inexperienced staff, with procedures that aren’t finished, now with unfamiliar staff practices and all before a huge traffic influx for the World Cup. Sheer panic and desperation with poor and corrupt management have decimated the unit and morale is through the floor.

Luckily NATS are open for recruitment if you haven't seen...

davidgkovacs

27th Aug 2022, 17:39

You mean NATS is open for experienced controllers with ACS rating?

terrain safe

27th Aug 2022, 19:23

You mean NATS is open for experienced controllers with ACS rating?

If you want to go to Aberdeeen...

Phillybound

27th Aug 2022, 20:47

There is no need to threaten the staff with anything like non disclosure, just watch FR24 during any inbound / outbound push. in spite of FRs time lapse delayed feed, you will find yourself wincing once too often. Our north westerly neighbour are filing weekly, often daily against us/Qatar for coordination failures & unsafe handoffs. MIDANPIRG / RASG meetings must surely be quite entertaining when Qatar Air Navigation Services are discussed.

davidgkovacs

28th Aug 2022, 05:50

If you want to go to Aberdeeen...

Scotland is fine… there’s no position though

bettercallsaul

5th Sep 2022, 09:02

Is there usually an age limit to apply to Doha?

ATC alert

11th Sep 2022, 04:39

Thank you most everyone for your continued contributions to the post I began not so long ago. Even those who are slinging the insults defending Qatar your comments are most welcome.

The purpose of this thread is entirely to warn, save, inform those experienced and qualified controllers of the current and past state of the QCAA. Those who need a break, a bone thrown,, are somewhat in a difficult position and just need a job so no amount of information will save them.

Those 1-2 individuals defending Qatar throwing insults will unfortunately one day regret their defence with the exception of a boy from Portugal, but 200 displeased ATCO's who are no longer there since 2001 can't be as wrong as the few currently satisfied staff. Bitter and twisted, I don't think that's accurate. In my case yes I'm very disappointed with the QCAA but I have a better job, in a better country with much better management so I am not twisted just on a mission to save those from that bad experience.

I'm sure everyone hopes these lack of standards, professionalism, real management and real recruiting won't end in some tragic event, thankfully that most likely won't happen. However I knew of a few controllers in Doha who left after experiencing some very close calls that they chose they couldn't be a part of and it probably haunts them to this day how close an accident came. The thing is that in great places to work or at least professional and average places, generally speaking these close calls, losses and scared shi...ss moments just don't happen or at a fraction of what they do in Doha.

I hope that one day they will cut the ties with all the local management (Ahmed and Company) there, get rid of the couple of senior controllers who just have an allegiance because they were desperate at some point and the QCAA gave them a break so they reinforce or influence the bad decisions being made there. If they can bring a qualified foreign ANS provider in to straighten this place up and run it like a professional branch it should be, then Doha would be a great place to go and experience for a couple of years.

Stay safe everyone

Phillybound

12th Sep 2022, 11:29

The inability to comply with ICAO Doc’s 7030 / 10151 & 9426 coupled with being viewed with hilarity at all PIRG meetings is what the Qatar CAAs Air Navigation Department has been reduced to. All these recent posed pics of document signing in relation to the approved FIR phased implementation is nothing short of a badly edited version of Attack of the Giant Killer Tomatoes. You really dont know whether to laugh, or be scared, although your kneejerk reaction is laughter through disbelief at just how successful ‘smoke & mirrors’ can actually be. Hardware, software & underwritten procedures is all it is. Half heartedly or never applied in practise.

With an AOC (Air Operations Centre), Air Defence in which the “fighter controllers” cannot read a basic radar tag, this new FIR phased approval is like throwing fuel on a fire. Fools and a state of confusion reign supreme. The UAE has reluctantly succumbed. I don’t blame my old colleagues for this as I’m certain they are sick to death of the unrelenting whinging and wining anyway. The UAE has a robust internal organic growth program that is light years ahead of its GCC counterparts and matches those of its ‘western’ counterparts. Qatar having its own FIR is of little consequence in their bigger picture. Bahrain however have put forward worthy and realistic operational and policy questions to Qatar about their ATM of an FIR. To date Qatar is still unable to answer those questions without misdirection & untruths. Bahrain however is closely monitoring them and not allowing Qatar to monopolise on any previous misdirection. So Qatar will continue to procrastinate and play the victim.

Controllers are actively jumping ship at any and every opportunity out of Qatar/QCAA. Some may say that is normal staff turnover. Maybe, however, in a time when jobs are scarce!?! Seems at odds with labour market trends.

The Air Navigation Department of Qatar has been allowed to sink into disrepute through years of gross mismanagement by its Director. His very own countrymen in the aviation profession think him the ultimate buffoon and cartoon sideshow. Yet given a title, even a buffoon backed by government money ends up being addressed with a smile and a handshake. The narcissism of this height challenged man is such that when any of his staff are accredited with praise his weaknesses shine through as that is when he actively and negatively targets his own employees behind their backs. In essence he detests hearing anything good said about any of his staff, expatriate or local, as he sees it as a personal affront. Poor poor little man.

The controllers here, in fact all the staffing in the Air Navigation Department not only deserve, but are worthy of far far better management and leadership. They all adapt and give it their best, under appallingly poor leadership/management. In fact referring to those with titles as ‘leaders’ or even managers is like putting a Lamborghini label on a toddlers walking ring. This place has proven conclusively to me that money can buy you whatever you want except what is really needed in any profession. That being ability, skill, integrity, honesty, quality training, education, vision, strength, insight, compassion, empathy, understanding, encouragement, growth, development etc etc etc. The shiniest of shiny is here, however at the same time, the absolute worst leadership/management possible, is also prevalent.

bettercallsaul

21st Sep 2022, 19:30

Bitter n Twisted

21st Sep 2022, 21:08

cannot PM you, your inbox is full😁
Looks empty to me....

ATC alert

12th Oct 2022, 16:29

Perhaps an entire management flush after World Cup will solve some of Doha's primary flaws.

Equivocal

12th Oct 2022, 22:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by bettercallsaul View Post (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/646990-doha-atco-2022-a-3.html#post11300372)
cannot PM you, your inbox is full😁
Looks empty to me....
I think until you have made 10 posts - or if you upset the mods - you're not allowed to send or receive PMs and it tells you that the inbox is full.

360BakTrak

13th Oct 2022, 07:31

I think until you have made 10 posts - or if you upset the mods - you're not allowed to send or receive PMs and it tells you that the inbox is full.

The curse of creating new accounts to try and remain even more anonymous while you slate your or someone else's employer.

Equivocal

13th Oct 2022, 18:00

Indeed!

davys747

13th Oct 2022, 18:54

Has anybody who applied for Doha had an interview?

bettercallsaul

14th Oct 2022, 05:37

The curse of creating new accounts to try and remain even more anonymous while you slate your or someone else's employer.

10posts might be true. I’m readonly in this thread (regarding the relevant issues), bothering nobody’s employer.

Phillybound

20th Oct 2022, 06:00

Perhaps an entire management flush after World Cup will solve some of Doha's primary flaws.Staff morale is beyond an all time low, most seem to be in near robotic mode. All focus now is simply to hopefully not get terminated until after the WC. Which based on the headless chicken approach to the QFIR seems almost inevitable. Nobody seems to have the slightest clue how to approach managing an FIR. Staff wise there are too many staff numbers currently to retain current staff and also hire en-route controllers. Drawing enroute controllers from the current numbers is also a bust as most are close to retirement age or have not practised their Acc rating in well over 5 years.

There is no money in the budget and increasing the budget long term is about as probable as flying pigs. Money just does not exist. Most are hoping after the SWC that Al Eshaq finally either retires or gets the boot for his pathetically substandard role as Director. However all of us have come to realise there are a hundred little Ahmed’s to replace him if that happens so pretty much status quo.

There is serious concern among the longer serving controllers here that training was not given enough focus and time to incoming staff. There seems to be among the majority of the newer arrivals the inability to understand speed control application as it would appear that even in medium to low traffic loadings final approach is regularly reaching the Saudi Arabia border. So much for reduced sep on final approach and the much talked about Independent Parallel Ops. Complaints from crew are weekly (sometimes daily) on freq.

As pointed out the money is well above average, however that goes only so far and when you realise that this joke of an operation is almost like the perfect storm for someone to lose their license in, you start to review certain values. Aside from the almost guaranteed salary/staff review after the World Cup, everyone is well aware operationally nothing will change irrespective of who is in charge and are looking elsewhere. Money is an attractant up to a point.