Pilot loads baggage

[ericferret]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/tui-pilot-praised-for-loading-bags-onto-plane-in-the-rain-after-30-hour-delay/ar-AAXUhnL?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAnZ9Ug

Had to say this makes me smile.
At Liverpool some time back I was walking back up the ramp with a colleague.
We came across a Ryan Air pilot loading his own aircraft.
"Need a hand there captain said my mate"

Cue the unusual sight of a Ryan Air 737 being loaded by the captain and two Easyjet engineers.
Of such things memories are made..

[scr1]

Have had EZY captain help load bags before back when they had 737's

[ShyTorque]

Back in the 1980s a 747 was chartered by MOD to carry troops to RAF Germany. On landing at Gutersloh it was fully disembarked and unloaded in less than 20 minutes because the pax helped.

[SWBKCB]

Back in the day the airport would have stopped for a union meeting and the baggage handlers would have been home within the hour if this sort of anarchy had broken out.

[jethro15]

There are numerous examples currently being recalled by individuals worldwide. Way before social media came along!

[ericferret]

There are numerous examples currently being recalled by individuals worldwide. Way before social media came along!

What used to be called getting the job done.

[macdo]

Did this myself with a Skipper who utterly hated nightstops. Baggage strike in ZTH, middle of the night, we unloaded and loaded an a320 with help from the local rep. Left about 1/2hr late, well within FTL to get him home to bed:D

[OMDB30R]

I wonder if he is even covered by the company, if he suffers injury from it, it would be interesting to see if the company supports him and doesn’t turn around and say you not covered

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

I wonder if he is even covered by the company, if he suffers injury from it, it would be interesting to see if the company supports him and doesn’t turn around and say you not covered

I think it's good to see someone using their initiative to solve a problem. Someone using their common sense rather than worrying about all the unlikely "what ifs". I've done the same in years gone by.

[Fris B. Fairing]

It used to be called a "demarcation dispute".

[Bravohotel]

Back in 1985 I was working for a NZ Airline planning to use a fleet of well worn Metroliners from a well known Queensland Airline and part of the deal was a spare parts package so off to Brisbane to pack up this stuff.When all the boxes were ready to take over to the Qantas freight shed nobody would move this stuff as around this time major union problems were going on in Queeensland so with the tug and trailer and all decals covered up I got the job to drive across Brisbane Airport and on arrival at Qantas was asked "who are you" and after giving the name of the Kiwi Airline they accepted the freight. I was told moving this stuff from one Airline to another could have shut down the Airport.

[Anilv]

LH Cargo back around 2003 or so.

Routing for the MD11F was FRA-SHJ-KUL-BKK (I was in KUL). There was one Captain Z who was always in a hurry to depart, to the extent that he would come back in to the main deck cargo hold and get the boys to hurry hurry hurry. Now the MD11F is a tricky aircraft to load as things need to happen in sequence and you can seriously screw things up if you lose track of what's going on. Apart from that, the aircraft sits a bit tail down and if you push the pallets too fast they will get away from you and slam into the locks. After this happened a few times I told him not to come to the maindeck, I also made a safety report.

This guy was an exception. All the other LCAG pilots were good guys, especially the MD11 guys as they were usually younger. The 747F were usually an older crowd and not as sociable but then they were not as fussed if we delayed the aircraft a bit.... One incident I remember we were loading in the rain and some pallets had water pooled in the plastic cover.. we tried to remove the water by raising one edge of the plastic but this was tedious. The Captain came back and saw what we were doing and left the maindeck... only to return with the coffee pot from the galley for us to bail out the water!.

Spent a lot of time on freighters as a loader/loadmaster and enjoyed it all.

Anilv

[Auxtank]

As long as its not added to the walk around on a permanent basis, what's the problem?

Getting the job done. Good man.

[JEM60]

1983. Houston Hobby Airport, Texas. Southwest Airlines. ALL crew loading baggage!!. All smiling and lovely people, looking as if they enjoyed what they were doing. Different times, eh.

[hoistop]

Does anyone know what was the original fu....up in this story, that caused passengers to disembark and had to come back next day for another try? If my holiday is shortened for two days for some organizational crap/money saving meaasure ... I would be VERY angry! And why the co-pilot had to go and help the handlers? Such crap service sheds bad impression not only to specific airline (guilty or not), but to entire aviation industry, as any reasonable man would consider it as totally unreliable means of transport. We all lose with such events.
Whenever I heard that my airline told passengers that flight was delayed due to "technical reasons" when airplane was technically OK (did happen with some dispatchers/crews) I went bezerk as I felt it is very unfair to offload it to maintenence (which I was part of) when true reason was much more intricate and truth was concealed from passengers. Any passenger would consider "technical reasons" as an aircraft maintenance issue. And "operational reasons" can mean almost anything. If I am in MAN on this flight, I would demand an honest explanation why and what really happened.

[beamer]

Certainly done it myself on numerous occasions on the 757 and 737 - sometimes you just need to get the job done. Amazing what can be achieved with a smile and a few bottles of water or soft drinks from the bar to keep up the spirits of the baggage handlers - lets be honest, who would want to do that job every day ?

Helping the cabin crew prep the aircraft, giving a hand to the engineers, manual loadsheets because the agents computer is broken, talking to the passengers face to face.....whats the problem as long as all your own duties are done and dusted ?

[cessnapete]

Back in the 1980s a 747 was chartered by MOD to carry troops to RAF Germany. On landing at Gutersloh it was fully disembarked and unloaded in less than 20 minutes because the pax helped.


I remember operating one of those MOD troop charters with BA from Glasgow to Gutersloh on the B747 -200. Certainly a fast turnaround with the troops helping.
First visit, and on studying the RAF App Chart noticed that the normal jet arrival was from Initials and a break into the circuit not below 500 ft.if I remember. So I did my best to comply, although at 1000ft and a slightly less enthusiastic Break. All worked well, although probably today with flight recorders, I’d be invited to a visit with the Flight Manager. Cap on and without the tea and biscuits.

[Cornish Jack]

Such things were, obviously, unremarkable in a Services environment. What was remarkable, wes the Wg Co Eng at Abingdon getting 'hands-on' with loading a Single Pin on the Bev - (very tight squeeze track). This involvement came to an unfortunate end later, when he fell from the door of a civilian charter while similarly involved. What would be the insurer's view of pilots off work due to back injuries sustained during such public-spirited action ?

[Sleeve Wing]

Tenerife. 2.am. Loaders shift change time. Passengers already boarded
Getting late to get back and F/O noticed 3 or 4 baggage trolleys at the aircraft but nothing happening.
Went down and found 3 loaders sleeping in the hold, laying on the rest of the baggage !
Kicked 'em off. Then, Including the cabin staff, loaded the rest ourselves and eventually got back home just inside FTL.
Sometimes, needs must ........but I wouldn't want to be a full-time loader !

[threep]

In the Russian far east nearly 20 years ago, plane landed and the baggage had been unloaded into wagons. But there was no-one to unload the wagons. Also the conveyor belt was broken. So the passengers formed a human chain to bring all the bags inside the baggage hall. It looked like it wasn't the first time they had to do that.

[pilot-737]

Tenerife. 2.am. Loaders shift change time. Passengers already boarded
Getting late to get back and F/O noticed 3 or 4 baggage trolleys at the aircraft but nothing happening.
Went down and found 3 loaders sleeping in the hold, laying on the rest of the baggage !
Kicked 'em off. Then, Including the cabin staff, loaded the rest ourselves and eventually got back home just inside FTL.
Sometimes, needs must ........but I wouldn't want to be a full-time loader !

So the passengers were onboard and the cabin crew was loading baggage.

Did you think about the regulation, requiring special training, in case of boarding with less than the required cabin crew members (1 crew member per 50 pax seats)?

I hope at least you that you and the F/O, were not out of the flight deck at the same time

Interesting to promote on-time performance instead of safety and more interesting to admit it in a professional forum.

[MaxReheat]

Location: Dublin
Event: 2 hour delay.
Problem: A passenger wanted to disembark because his trip was no longer worthwhile.
Attempted solution: call after call to ground handling asking for someone to attend the aircraft and escort the individual back to the gate.
Final solution: After no response from handling, cabin crew escorted the individual the 50 yds to the gate.
Outcome: one satisfied passenger; an airport authority that reacted as if war had just been declared on the Republic.
Long-term Outcome: never meddled with airport and handling jobsworths again.

[t-bag]

So the passengers were onboard and the cabin crew was loading baggage.

Did you think about the regulation, requiring special training, in case of boarding with less than the required cabin crew members (1 crew member per 50 pax seats)?

I hope at least you that you and the F/O, were not out of the flight deck at the same time

Interesting to promote on-time performance instead of safety and more interesting to admit it in a professional forum.

You must be fun to fly with!

[pilot-737]

You must be fun to fly with!

I don’t know if it is so much fun to fly with me, as I don’t offer gym activities to my crew, during flight duty, like other captains apparently do.

Even if I start one day, I think that I would chose aerobics instead of weight training.

[Right Hand Thread]

Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?

[BEagle]

Jobsworth airports weren't restricted to the world of civil aviation. Back in 1978, 7 of us had been at Goose Bay for 9 days with all the necessary cold weather clothing, flying clothing etc. etc. and were finally leaving the place in mid-Dec eager to get back to RAF Scampton. We were told that we had to be back by a certain time because Scampton would be closing then... That looked doable, but we were delayed on departure for some reason or other. We needed it to stay open for an additional 15 min, but despite the pleas over HF, they wouldn't agree and we were given a Grade One diversion to Waddington...and were told that transport would be waiting to take us to Scampton.

When we landed, all that was there to meet us was a Morris van (about the size of a Sherpa). After loading all our bags (7 crew plus all their kit) and squeezing on board, we were taken over to the Operations block and told that we had to get off and get on the 32 seat coach which had actually been sent from Scampton... Why couldn't it have met us at the aircraft, you may well ask? Because the driver didn't have an airfield driving permit for Waddington. Why couldn't a driver with such a permit have brought the bus to us? Because they were Waddington and it was a Scampton vehicle.....and never the twain shall meet, it seems.

The following day the Boss said he was glad that we were finally back - but where was our Vulcan? We told him, to which he replied "Go and get it...NOW!". As I was going on leave, another co-pilot was joe'd; off they went through the Lincoln traffic, generated the mighty steed, took off, left the wheels down, skirted Lincoln and landed 5 min later.

All because the air traffic jobsworths had refused to stay open for a mere 15 min. I wonder how much tax payers' money that wasted?

[rkenyon]

Does anyone know what was the original fu....up in this story, that caused passengers to disembark and had to come back next day for another try? If my holiday is shortened for two days for some organizational crap/money saving meaasure ... I would be VERY angry! And why the co-pilot had to go and help the handlers? Such crap service sheds bad impression not only to specific airline (guilty or not), but to entire aviation industry, as any reasonable man would consider it as totally unreliable means of transport. We all lose with such events.
Whenever I heard that my airline told passengers that flight was delayed due to "technical reasons" when airplane was technically OK (did happen with some dispatchers/crews) I went bezerk as I felt it is very unfair to offload it to maintenence (which I was part of) when true reason was much more intricate and truth was concealed from passengers. Any passenger would consider "technical reasons" as an aircraft maintenance issue. And "operational reasons" can mean almost anything. If I am in MAN on this flight, I would demand an honest explanation why and what really happened.

Original flight was on a leased B757 (some Spanish company). Passengers all boarded about 07:45 and due to go at 07:55. At 11:00 baggage hadn't been loaded so captain said they needed to be somewhere else, and asked everybody to get off. Chaos as nobody from TUI there to meet the passengers. Passengers eventually notified of cancellation by text, and told to collect bags. Bags didn't arrive for a further 3 hours.

Flight re-arranged for 13:15 the following day, this time on a B737-800. Fewer seats, so TUI just notified people that had bought "flight only" that their flights were cancelled again. Flight eventually left about 16:15, with at least 15 empty seats.

[wiggy]

Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?

I'm sure it does, OTOH at some airports the result where would be exactly as SWBKCB describe.

Even if you survived that hiccup some hi viz clad manager would be along asking questions about whether you had attended the appropriate weight lifting course and whether you were wearing safety boots........

[pilot-737]

Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?

Maybe if you are on biz jet you don’t realize the airline ops implications:

-Responsibilities of the cabin crew during an emergency(fire), with pax onboard, while they are out of the cabin loading baggage.

-Compensation of a cabin crew, should an injury occur during loading(back injury, fall from the loading belt, injury on the apron from a vehicle etc). Don’t forget, the ground staff is insured, as they have had initial and recurrent training regarding their specific duties and they are using special equipment(safety boots).

-Pax compensation, in case his baggage falls off the belt / cargo hold height.

Did you think about the implications on human performance?

It’s different to load 5 bags on a Biz Jet and completely different story to load a 737 or 320, especially when you are close to your FTL limits for your next landing.
What would be the result of additional fatigue to a crew already flying close to their max duty ?



If a captain asks from his crew to perform duties not included in their job description, by the same token, in the event of a ground staff strike, let us take responsibility for refueling the aircraft.

My advice: Just sign a good liability insurance before you try the last one.

[PAXboy]

I would like to see a few CEOs and Financial WhatSits loading baggage. THAT would be newsworthy.

[Hartington]

Arrived Glasgow in a Trident from Heathrow. Captain announced that the baggage handlers had started a lighning strike whilst we were en-route so would a few of us volunteer to unload the bags. Up into the hold I went and found 4 bags at one end of the hold and my tandem bicycle at the other end. The only problem was getting back into the terminal building!

[Jetset 88]

Beamer....... I agree.....
I recall unloading my 757 of Air Dos Mil in Lanzarote, at some time in the late 90s when there was a loaders go-slow there. We even roped in a few pax to help unload as I recall. However, the aircraft left for the UK leaving the homebound pax baggage still at ACE as that was the way agreed to not upset the local unions. The go-slow only lasted a day so the dirty-washing bags came home 24hrs later.

[CVividasku]

It's fun because my chief pilot specifically told me today we were strongly discouragef from doing this.
if we fall in the stairs, we will lack a pilot for 3 weeks to gain just 2-3 minutes

[Spunky Monkey]

Yes us Bizjets do it several times a day, but for up to 10 people, not over 100.
Real kudos to the Simon for doing this, it shows a great deal of compassion for the customers, crew and even the company.

I have been told that the CEO of Jet2 is regularly seen on the ramp in the early hours with his staff.
Some of you probably don't care, but for his staff that is a welcome boost and a lesser seen quality in aviation management of 'Leadership.'
I would work for them if that was my CEO, not the usual spiv we see in biz jets.

[vikingivesterled]

Back in 98 during the Ryanair baggage handler strike in Dublin all males where called out of the Heead office to do baggage handling, and I was on shift with amongst others O'Leary, Eddie Wilson and the Chief Pilot. The pilot of one of the planes being loaded came over to the Chief Pilot and said; Remember back in the days when we where both new in Ryanair, I am a captain now and you are still loading the bags. Before that all new Ryanair chiefs had to do a stint in ground ops to get a feel for the airline.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Bizjets aren't always as easy as they seem. During a porters strike I was amongst the salaried staff brought in to load baggage - and freight. I foolishly volunteered to load a Westwind which was heading north for a little island with a copper mine. How difficult could it be to load baggage for a handful of pax? Besides I knew the pilots and was eager to help them. Unfortunately no pax today - 'twas a freighter. For the better part of an hour I struggled alone to shoehorn all manner of freight, seemingly ranging from anvils to eiderdowns, into that tiny cabin. Mind you I did succeed in redefining the term "volumetrically availed", albeit while not exactly adhering to a precision timing schedule. Meanwhile the two sympathetic pilots stood by tapping their feet while frequently glancing nervously at their watches. They were itching to help but that would have started trench warfare with the unions. As I recall it was high summer too.

[WB627]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/528x567/unexpected_9abfff67917448d82cb6484021ac62c6b86b16a3.jpg

[BoeingDriver99]

I once witnessed a skipper carry an elderly & frail woman up the front steps of a 737 as there was no ambi-lift available. Cheers all around once she was seated and off we went.

If he had slipped and dropped her he could have killed/injured her/himself and the cheers would have turned to jeers and he'd be out of a job/career. Risk versus reward/Cost-benefit analysis anyone?

Plus for all the pilots saying 'good on
em; it's getting a job done' ; you would be equally happy if your union went on strike for a cause you believed in and the airline brought in qualified crew to replace you whilst you were on strike? That would be the same thing right?

[Ollie Onion]

I once went down and carried a wheelchair back up to the aircraft as the Groundstaff refused saying Health and Safety prevented them doing it. 2 disciplinary meetings later and I will never offer my support again, just off to the hotel for the night with me.

[stilton]

As a professional pilot why would you ever risk injury and the possibility of an extended period without pay to load passengers bags ?


That makes no sense at all

[Spunky Monkey]

because most of us aren't made of match sticks.

[Bergerie1]

stilton, When visiting Tripoli at the start of the Six Day War when the Algerian air force was ferrying fighter aircraft through there to help the Egyptians. The authorities refused us permission to unload and load the holds, and surrounded us with armed soldiers to stop us. Eventually we managed to persuade them to let us go and we threw everything from the holds of our VC10 out onto the tarmac, loaded the bags of the uncoming pax, started up and got the hell out of the place before they changed their minds. It was a case of all hands to the pumps!

[PoppaJo]

I have seen CEO's do this, as well as serving drinks/cart run etc. But ONLY if a camera is around.

[Asturias56]

"Before that all new Ryanair chiefs had to do a stint in ground ops to get a feel for the airline."

Years ago I shared an office with a guy who'd worked at Mars i Slough as a student.

he said Ol Mr Mars quite commonly turned up from the USA without warning and could be found operating some new or recalcitrant bit of machinery on the production line to "find out just how it's going"

And of course the guy who founded IKEA who used to book his own hotels as he could find the cheapest ones to stay in close to the office - Travlelodge or Premier Inn in the UK were his favourites

[Stabmotion]

In my opinion he should never do so.

Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.

There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.

Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.

EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.

Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.

Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.

I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.

[oxenos]

Many years ago I was co-pilot of a flt divertrd from Luton to Heathrow. The ramp agent informed us that with a lot of diversions it would be hours before the bags would be unloaded. Captain turned to me and said "We could make a start, are you game for it?" Before I could say anything, the rampie said "If you touch a bag, the baggage handler's union will black the aircraft, and it will be here for a week.". We headed for our taxi back to base.
Years later I was a captain with Ryanair during the handler's strike, and as Viking said, saw M O'L loading bags with half the office staff of Ryanair.

[KAPAC]

6 years in GA unloading and loading was the job , flying was the easy bit . Regionals and the loader was the life of the party so we helped him after last sector so we all got to the bar earlier . Airline level is full of politics but I’ll pickup up bag that’s fallen off a trolley or loader and hand it to someone . If I had to load the belly of a NB I’d do it and if I got injured it be twisting in a seat or retrieving my nav bag a few minutes after the last bag was loaded .

I’d never cross a line though .

[Brian Pern]

Maybe if you are on biz jet you don’t realize the airline ops implications:
........
It’s different to load 5 bags on a Biz Jet and completely different story to load a 737 or 320.......

I take it then you have never operated on a BBJ or ACJ? Such things are pretty common place. Although for 19 pax or so, but you would be surprised what some Oligarch or Saudi Prince/Princess can pack and expect to have in the hold/cabin .
Also cleaning the aircraft and stocking it as well, although that normally is the domain of the Cabin Crew.

Having said that, in an airline...maybe not, but good on him for doing it.

[Twiglet1]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/tui-pilot-praised-for-loading-bags-onto-plane-in-the-rain-after-30-hour-delay/ar-AAXUhnL?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAnZ9Ug

Had to say this makes me smile.
At Liverpool some time back I was walking back up the ramp with a colleague.
We came across a Ryan Air pilot loading his own aircraft.
"Need a hand there captain said my mate"

Cue the unusual sight of a Ryan Air 737 being loaded by the captain and two Easyjet engineers.
Of such things memories are made..

UK Charter Airline 1980 something. Handling strike at CFU. 4 of us got sent down to load Company 737. Had a little too much ouzo night before.
Got a call in the Hotel 'where are you' oops all 4 slept in. Now way we could go without bfast so even later. Day went well until some German outfit (LTU?) sent in a A310
and we got asked to offload, No chance as we couldn't even reach the doors

[ericferret]

In my opinion he should never do so.

Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.

There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.

Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.

EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.

Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.

Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.

I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.

I wish to be humiliated as well.
I would be truly offended to be in a job where there is poential to earn over £100k a year and retire on a plus £1million pension.
As one of our T.R.E's said recently.
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!

[Stabmotion]

I wish to be humiliated as well.
I would be truly offended to be in a job where there is poential to earn over £100k a year and retire on a plus £1million pension.
As one of our T.R.E's said recently.
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!

May be your TRE is earning a decent amount but everybody else is struggling to repay the high debt amount after training, buying a house it’s utopian and 100k gross only means you will be a high tax payer, nothing else.

I can talk about working 20 days on late reports including weekends for those with kids and about fatigue and night flying. I never though that becoming a pilot I would still feel like at the bottom of the rat race.

You can always compare yourself against Cuban pilots of course.

[pilot-737]

I wish to be humiliated as well……..
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!

Reading the above I conclude that:

Either you are not a professional pilot and you try to underestimate the profession, or you are one of those who do nothing during the flight (line training for new pilots, briefing for abnormals, wx for alternate airports, fuel checks etc). Then yes I agree, loading some baggage will help you to get out of your boredom especially on cloudy days.

I also feel so sorry for the Captains of the ships, who spend months looking out of the window and do not even have the opportunity to load some baggage for the salaries they are getting.

As I have worked in the cargo section of the airport before I started flying, I respect the right of my colleagues to strike, in order to avoid further degradation of their working conditions, and I also understand that if I do the work on their behalf (to avoid delays due to lack of personnel), the result will be a reduction in staff for the same number of flights.

[ericferret]

Reading the above I conclude that:

Either you are not a professional pilot and you try to underestimate the profession, or you are one of those who do nothing during the flight (line training for new pilots, briefing for abnormals, wx for alternate airports, fuel checks etc). Then yes I agree, loading some baggage will help you to get out of your boredom especially on cloudy days.

I also feel so sorry for the Captains of the ships, who spend months looking out of the window and do not even have the opportunity to load some baggage for the salaries they are getting.

As I have worked in the cargo section of the airport before I started flying, I respect the right of my colleagues to strike, in order to avoid further degradation of their working conditions, and I also understand that if I do the work on their behalf (to avoid delays due to lack of personnel), the result will be a reduction in staff for the same number of flights.

I f you had actually read my initial post you would know what I do for a living.
In English we have an expression called "tongue in cheek" My tongue was firmly in cheek for my last post.

[Sleeve Wing]

No sense of humour, ericferret.
Imagine having to spend the day with such a starchy skipper. He knows all the rules but doesn't apparently recognise the sheer joy of competently operating his aeroplane with a happy crew, no matter what..........

[FlightDetent]

So the people who opine against the reflex reaction of offering a hand freely at all times are not social enough to be given professional respect.

Glad that one is sorted and the thread can be put to rest.

[pilot-737]

ericferret

Indeed, I did not connect you with the initial post. I apologize if I misunderstood the sense of what you wrote.

Sleeve Wing

Is there any objective argument on our subject, other than assumptions about my person?

I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but my definition of a “happy crew” does not include loading luggage at 0200 am just before the last leg.

[Max Angle]

I suppose how far you are prepared to go to help out depends on much goodwill you have towards your employer. I have none whatsoever so I fly the aircraft safely from A to B and make sure that I and the crew have as nice a day as possible. Anything else, no thanks.

[CargoOne]

Few years ago SAS flight arrival ARN remote parking stand, no baggage loaders around due to whatever problems. The Cpt and FO went to offload it themselves along with a male FA, pretty remarkable for a heavily unionised carrier.

[Eutychus]

As SLF I have been reading this thread with interest.
I find a useful tool for looking at this kind of situation to be what I have heard called the "ethical square". It is a box with "people" in the centre; the four sides are "the law", "motivation"; "the situation at hand", and "consequences".
The idea is that good decisions are ones that focus on the intrinsic value of people and that take into account the four sides. The "law" can be company regs, a national law, a religious law, or any other form of written code. It is there, but it alone will not help to determine the best outcome. As someone once said, the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The sides I think are the hardest to factor in when considering a decision are "motivation" (it's hard to be really sure of one's own motivation) and "consequences" - we cannot foresee them all, and we must not overlook the consequences of *inaction* either.
A final thing about this square is that the outcome from one instance cannot be held up as a precedent or justification.

Tl;dr: it's impossible to generalise from the actions of this pilot, but it made for a fun social media post.

[hunterboy]

I think the issue is many of us that have been in the industry for a while recognise the danger of doing such things to help,out. It won’t be long before the pilots will be required to load and unload pax bags as part of their duties. I’m all for helping out here and there if I get the relevant pay for doing so. I’d also like the H&S training and top cover in case of injury.
I won’t hold my breath. I’ve no wish to “help out” in order to make O’Leary richer.

[anson harris]

I'd be happy to help load baggage on occasion if helps my passengers and the company asked me to do it. Just send me a quick ACARS saying I'm authorised and insured and it's no problem..... What's that you say? You've found some baggage handlers?

[listria]

I’d also like the H&S training .
Problem with this is that if you hurt yourself after you've had health and safety training your employer will say it's your own problem as you didn't follow the training rules.

[NutLoose]

Having watched Nigerians load their aircraft after having the aircraft in the U.K. for maintenance nothing would ever surprise me again.

Nappies and toilet roll were a favourite and we were forbidden to help them, one a/c was a Lear 35 and they filled the cabin virtually up to the ceiling, the pilot then slid into the cockpit over the top of his freight, it was so overloaded that the nose wheel steering packed up when he landed for fuel on route.
The other was a King Air, the crew got in then the cabin was filled with the usual including a TV etc, when they got to the door the other crew member got in and sat on the bog facing the door, his friends then packed the rest of the cargo in and tried to close the door to no avail, finally admitting defeat they took off just sufficient to close the door.

[Crromwellman]

Back in the 1980s a 747 was chartered by MOD to carry troops to RAF Germany. On landing at Gutersloh it was fully disembarked and unloaded in less than 20 minutes because the pax helped.
I remember a similar incident on Ex Lionheart when a BA 747 arrived at Gutersloh and the movements staff selected a chalk with the requisite numbers to be the baggage handling party. The only thing was that they were a specialist TA unit whose lowest rank was Lieutenant Colonel. Still they set to and did the job in double quick time.
And there was the occasion when a trooping flight arrived at an airport in the middle of a baggage handlers strike. The pax started to unload the baggage and the local shop stewards intervened. It was explained to them that the pax were all Royal Marines returning from a six month unaccompanied tour. Discretion being the better part of valour, the unloading continued

[Alpine Flyer]

I take it then you have never operated on a BBJ or ACJ? Such things are pretty common place. Although for 19 pax or so, but you would be surprised what some Oligarch or Saudi Prince/Princess can pack and expect to have in the hold/cabin.
Once had a MUC-INN charter transporting the most important baggage of a small group arriving on a private 747. We basically stuffed the whole cabin and hold of a 50-seater with stuff as ridiculous as chick peas and car rims. Whenever we said something wouldn‘t fit we got a „money doesn‘t matter“ reply and stuff we couldn’t fit was trucked.

As for OT I think it’s fine to very occasionally lend a hand if circumstances require, breaking a strike less so.

[condor17]

Once you are type rated on an a/c IMHO you are qualified to Operate it , that's all factors of operatng it .
Personal experience from '73 , adhoc loading/de-icing earned you a Capt's recommedation on your file .
In '82ish , striking ramp workers nearly brought down our virtually bankrupt airline . The whole airline came in to do ramp work after/before shifts and days off .
Loading B4 flt and unloading after was normal , some pilots were honey cart trained , and top of the totem were those few trained on pushback /tugs .
Strike over , and 70's thoughts on strikes toned down , we went back to normal .
Highland and Islands routes was normal ops for one pilot to load / unload , one to do loadsheet . 1 CC clean cabin , 1 to check in pax and walk then to and fro .
IMHO 'preciousness' on an a/c has no place. Get the job done .

rgds condor

[Romasik]

So the passengers were onboard and the cabin crew was loading baggage.

Did you think about the regulation, requiring special training, in case of boarding with less than the required cabin crew members (1 crew member per 50 pax seats)?

I hope at least you that you and the F/O, were not out of the flight deck at the same time

Interesting to promote on-time performance instead of safety and more interesting to admit it in a professional forum.
Talking about professional things on a professional forum. It would be professional to first find out how many crews and passengers were still on board, before jumping into conclusions.