Aircraft which brought Elizabeth ll back to London after her father's death.

[finalapproach]

Just watching the Queen's until now unseen footage of her life. The BOAC aircraft that brought her back from Africa following her father, the king's death in 1952. Looks like a DC 6. Would that be right?

[DaveReidUK]

BOAC Argonaut

[finalapproach]

Thanks! I stand corrected.

[Liffy 1M]

Pathé film here: https://youtu.be/t2gF-jaVuK4

[SkiFan]

BOAC Argonaut Courtesy of Wikipedia:

Canadair built 71 examples of what was officially called the Canadair Four under the designations: North Star, DC-4M, C-4 and C-5. With the exception of the single C-5 (which had Pratt and Whitney R2800 engines, as fitted to the Douglas DC6), these variants were all powered by Rolls-Royce Merlin engines and 51 of the production examples were pressurised.

BOAC ordered 22 DC-4M-4s and named them the "Argonaut class", each aircraft having a classical name beginning with "A". The Argonauts were delivered between March and November 1949; they flew to South America, Africa, the Middle East and the Far East from London Heathrow until 1960.

On 1 February 1952 the BOAC Argonaut Atalanta G-ALHK transported Princess Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh to Kenya to begin a Commonwealth tour.[9] Some days later, 6 February, it was again Atalanta G-ALHK which returned the newly acceded Queen Elizabeth II to England upon the death of her father, King George VI.

[Bergerie1]

And Ron Ballantine and R C Parker were the captains who flew her back:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1449525/Captain-Ronald-Ballantine.html

[Planemike]

Thanks! I stand corrected.
You are not completely wrong. The Canadair C-4 is a blend of DC 4 with some DC 6 features added, powered by RR Merlin engines.

It is worth adding that Her Majesty flew from Nanyuki to Entebbe, where she boarded the BOAC Argonaut to return to London, in East African Airways DC 3 Dakota "Sagana" VP-KHK. Thus EAA became the first airline to fly a reigning British Monarch... This Royal flight was commanded by Capt. Aubrey Francombe with Capt. Bob Watson as co-pilot, Ivan Morris as Radio Officer & George Mathews as Steward.

[Alan Baker]

A plaque was installed in the Argonaut which read:-
Their Royal Highnesses Princess Elizabeth & The Duke of Edinburgh flew from London Airport in this aircraft to East Africa between 31 January and 1 February 1952.
Her Majesty The Queen with The Duke of Edinburgh returned in it from East Africa between 6 and 7 February 1952.
Royal Mail Aircraft "Atalanta" G-ALHK

[DH106]

A plaque was installed in the Argonaut which read:-
Their Royal Highnesses Princess Elizabeth & The Duke of Edinburgh flew from London Airport in this aircraft to East Africa between 31 January and 1 February 1952.
Her Majesty The Queen with The Duke of Edinburgh returned in it from East Africa between 6 and 7 February 1952.
Royal Mail Aircraft "Atalanta" G-ALHK

It's a shame that Argonaut wasn't deemed worthy of preservation - broken up in 1965 apparently.
I wonder if the plaque survived - somebody surely would have saved it?

[bobward]

Isn't there a fuselage at Duxford, or am I confusing myself here?

[DH106]

Isn't there a fuselage at Duxford, or am I confusing myself here?

That's a H.P Hermes I believe, not an Argonaut.

[rog747]

And for those of you that were glued to the Box to watch the Crown on Netflix - The BOAC aircraft seen in the episode of HM succession marked as registration G-ALDP (which was a Handley Page HP.81 Hermes 4A)
In reality, a South African DC-4 with registration ZS-AUB, c/n 42984 built in 1946 used in the series to depict BOAC's Argonaut Atatlanta.

One of two flying DC-4s operated by South African Airways Historic Flight, painted in a BOAC livery for the TV series, shot on location in RSA.

The CG aircraft, the DC4, was a special case. A real vintage DC4 exists in South Africa, which the production was able to paint in contemporary BOAC colours and use for filming on location there. During this time the SFX/CG Company had a chance to gather a large amount of reference photography that they used in conjunction with photogrammetry software to build and texture their CG model for more scenes.
Then they added further detail on a shot by shot basis.

[Discorde]

IIRC one of the BOAC Argonauts sadly ended up as the fire service practice aircraft at LHR, parked just south of 28R about two thirds of the way along.

[treadigraph]

The Argonaut on the fire dump at Heathrow was G-ALHJ. My recollection of it circa 1975 was largely complete but a little bit singed...

[pax britanica]

Discorde, you are right. For many years the Fire Service practice airframe . I used to remeebr the registration but no more . It was scrapped when they built the 747/DC10 combo green giant that lived on the Engineering base area east of 23/05. This had gas fuelled fire areas and was needed by the time it was built 1990s?? since there was very little on an Argonaut that was in any way like a modern aircraft especially a widebody.

I grew up in Stanwell south west of LHR as a kid and my earliest spotting memories are of eastbounds departing from 09R in the days before it was fully extended to the present length and I can still remember the appalling racket Argonauts made on take off compared to the much smoother sounding US radials. The Merlin was a wonderful military engine but for civil use it must have deafened hundreds who flew in it . Presumably it was some sort of economy meaure to save $$$ on US proper civilian aircraft as most of our post war piston aircraft were pretty dreadful and pretty dangerous until the Viscount came along and the finally fixed Comet 4.. I never flew on a big piston but I think the difference between them and the Viscount for noise and vibration must have been the biggest step in pax comfort ever. I was lucky enough to fly on a Viscount a couple of times and it really was a nice ride pretty much the same as one gets on a A320 today. Scuse the thread drift

[Flyingmole]

You are not completely wrong. The Canadair C-4 is a blend of DC 4 with some DC 6 features added, powered by RR Merlin engines.

It is worth adding that Her Majesty flew from Nanyuki to Entebbe, where she boarded the BOAC Argonaut to return to London, in East African Airways DC 3 Dakota "Sagana" VP-KHK. Thus EAA became the first airline to fly a reigning British Monarch... This Royal flight was commanded by Capt. Aubrey Francombe with Capt. Bob Watson as co-pilot, Ivan Morris as Radio Officer & George Mathews as Steward.
Gad! I used to fly in EAA Daks back in the 50s and 60s! I wonder if I flew in that one? In those days you realised why places were called 'Airfields'. That's what many of the landing areas for the EAA Daks were: grass fields with a wooden shack in the corner. Them's were the days!

[WHBM]

The involved Argonaut, G-ALHK, had been sold to Danish holiday/charter carrier Flying Enterprise in 1961. When they went under in 1965 there was no further market for it, and it was broken up at Copenhagen I believe.

The Argonaut had been chartered from BOAC for an extended Royal trip to Australia etc over some weeks, the first leg of which was to East Africa. It was stood down at Entebbe when the news came through, and one can only imagine the efforts required to arrange the flight to London. I believe it had a single crew who were to accompany it throughout the leisurely trip.

The DC-3 VP-KHK which performed the initial link flight to Entebbe was sold a couple of years later to the French Air Force, for whom it performed long term. In 1969 it was sent to Scottish Aviation at Prestwick, one of the few remaining DC3 MROs in Europe by then, and while standing on the ramp it was overturned in a severe gale, and damaged beyond repair.

There was a more detailed discussion by several of us here a few months ago, on the actual anniversary of the accession, including a picture of the damaged Dakota at Prestwick :

Death of King George VI and accession of HM Queen Elizabeth II - PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/645032-death-king-george-vi-accession-hm-queen-elizabeth-ii.html#post11183846)

[NRU74]

Slight thread drift -
I went through El Adem many times in the sixties pre Gaddafi and on one occasion was with an old Navigator (probably 40 years younger than I am now) who said that he remembered that for the outbound trip of Princess Elizabeth and the D of E to Kenya the first flushing lavatory in El Adem had been installed in case it was required on the turnround.
Anyone know anything about the loo and where it was ?

[tubby linton]

Wasn’t there a story about an Argonaut on a royal tour that had a lot of armour plate fitted which was subsequently forgotten?

[ZFT]

The Argonaut on the fire dump at Heathrow was G-ALHJ. My recollection of it circa 1975 was largely complete but a little bit singed...

I participated in engine runs on that very aircraft in 1968 or 69. Still recall the significant effort to hand pressurise the hyds/brakes before the run

[Planemike]

The Argonaut on the fire dump at Heathrow was G-ALHJ. My recollection of it circa 1975 was largely complete but a little bit singed...
This Argonaut has East African connections: leased to EAAC in February 1958, registered as VP-KOT, then returned to BOAC. Went to Fire Section in 1970.

[aeromech3]

I participated in engine runs on that very aircraft in 1968 or 69. Still recall the significant effort to hand pressurise the hyds/brakes before the run
Was it used for Apprentice training at that time?

[ZFT]

Was it used for Apprentice training at that time?

Indeed it was. Replaced by the Mexicana Comet but whilst a wonderful aircraft, it lacked props!

[WHBM]

Indeed it was. Replaced by the Mexicana Comet but whilst a wonderful aircraft, it lacked props!
Both these aircraft had a common cause, that when BOAC was retiring their fleet they got leased out long term, the Argonaut to East African, the Comet to Mexicana, and for both BOAC somewhat unwelcomely got them back long after the fleet had gone and the secondhand market for their type had passed them by, so ended up being used for whatever training was still relevant on them.

The book "BOAC an Illustrated History" has a cleverly selected cover photo of a Comet, 707 and 747 together, all in BOAC livery. Theoretically impossible as the Comet was retired long before the 747 came along, it is staged with the Comet trainer, back in full BOAC livery, parked among these other types. The Argonaut was still around Heathrow then I believe, shame it couldn't have been cosmetically tarted up to join the others :

BOAC: An Illustrated History (Revealing History (Paperback)) : Woodley: Amazon.co.uk: Books

[Sue Vêtements]

Pathé film here

Top hats! now there's nostalgia

53 seconds into it, it looks like someone chucks something in from maybe the cockpit area and it sends papers all over the place which nobody picks up. That was odd

[WHBM]

Top hats! now there's nostalgia
The limousine shown is still around. I happened to drive alongside it one morning a few years ago all the way out from Buckingham Palace to the M4. It was Ascot races day and it was being driven out from its base at Buck House Mews. kept up with the rest of the traffic all the way along. No visible escort, just the driver.

[frieghtdog2000]

If I recall the Argonaught was replaced by a Comet and eventually by a Trident - I definitely remember a clearance from ATC to *Turn Left at Trident Corner^ Then the Trident went and the Jolly Green Giant was commissioned.

[treadigraph]

The green fire training thingy was built in the late 1990s, my civil engineering colleagues were involved in the project and a similar objet d'art at Stansted. If I recall correctly it was subsequently moved to make room for the Virgin hangar. The Trident was "owned" by a schoolfriend's BA management dad and was originally used for tug training I think. As was the Comet - or am I thinking of the ex-Dan-Air example at Gatwick?

[Jetset 88]

The BOAC senior ops planner for Royal Flights was Doug Newham who did the rapid planning for HMQ's return from Nanyuki, Kenya. He was subsequently awarded the Monarch's personal award of Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order (LVO). A splendid man who achieved his 100 years in November 2021 and then flew to Canada having been given VIP treatment by BA at LHR. Sadly he developed a rapid brain tumour after he returned home in the new year and died on 14 March 2022.
A dedeicated aviator WW2 Observer/Navigator who continued supporting the RAF as president of his local RAFA and other RAF organisations all his life. RIP Doug.

[possel]

Wasn’t there a story about an Argonaut on a royal tour that had a lot of armour plate fitted which was subsequently forgotten?
Possibly there was an Argonaut as well, but an armoured floor was fitted by the RAF to one of the Queen's Flight Vikings VL232 for a royal tour in South Africa. According to p.19 of "The Eagle Years" by David Hedges, Eagle Airways subsequently bought it as G-APAT and considered it "down on performance" until they found the reason!

[sandringham1]

. As was the Comet - or am I thinking of the ex-Dan-Air example at Gatwick?

The Ex Mexicana Comet at Heathrow was used for apprentice training, the only towing event I recall was when the tow bar weak link went one day when it was being repositioned and without brakes or steering it rolled and rolled until gently coming to a halt without hitting anything important.
The Trident 3B at LHR was G-AWZK and it was used for towing, its now at Manchester, its history is here Hawker Siddeley Trident G-AWZK (http://www.zulukilo.org.uk/)

[ZFT]

There was a Comet painted all white with cropped wings at Gatwick for a number of years at Gatwick in 80s or 90s I recall

[DH106]

There was a Comet painted all white with cropped wings at Gatwick for a number of years at Gatwick in 80s or 90s I recall

The most recent of those was G-APMB, Comet 4b which was only scrapped relatively recently, but I think prior to that there was another Comet 4, possibly G-APDM.

[oldpax]

I flew from Khormaksar to Mombasa for a holiday in june 1963 just 60 years ago!The Argonaut was in BOAC colours but think had Aden Airways not BOAC on the fuselage?
Came back ,same aircraft and encountered a lively thunderstorm,many passengers refused their meals so I got three!Having run out of money in Mombasa and lived on breakfasts!!

[WHBM]

I flew from Khormaksar to Mombasa for a holiday in june 1963 just 60 years ago!The Argonaut was in BOAC colours but think had Aden Airways not BOAC on the fuselage?
Came back ,same aircraft and encountered a lively thunderstorm,many passengers refused their meals so I got three!Having run out of money in Mombasa and lived on breakfasts!!
Yes, BOAC retired the Canadairs when their whole lot of types on order, the Comet 4, the first 707s, and the multiple marks of Britannia, all ended up getting delivered together. BOAC stuck the Argonauts on various of their partially-owned subsidiaries (possibly whether they wanted them or not), Aden Airways being one, the onetime East African Airways being another. They lasted just a few years with each, they were only really worth scrap value. Shortly after your trip they got replaced at Aden by Viscounts; contrary to some understanding BOAC actually had a large fleet of Viscount 700s bought new, they never operated on mainstream services from London, but were placed with their various "Associated Companies" around the world, and often shunted around between them. Standard BOAC livery but just the titles changed.

The licensing agreement from Douglas, who did the original design of the DC-4, to Canadair, who based the Argonaut on this, but with significant changes, stipulated the aircraft could only be sold new in Britain and Canada, so there was never any market for it beyond the 40-odd aircraft built for the main airlines of the two countries.

[Jhieminga]

There is an Aden Airways Argonaut in this photo: https://www.vc10.net/Airframes/Images/G-ARVA_Aden2.jpg (Photo J. Davey, from https://www.vc10.net/Airframes/cn_804__garva.html). You can see that they didn't change much in the livery, apart from the titles. Have a look at the other photos on that page as another one shows an East African Airways Comet 4 in a similar scheme.

[TCU]

Possibly there was an Argonaut as well, but an armoured floor was fitted by the RAF to one of the Queen's Flight Vikings VL232 for a royal tour in South Africa. According to p.19 of "The Eagle Years" by David Hedges, Eagle Airways subsequently bought it as G-APAT and considered it "down on performance" until they found the reason!
There is a picture, in Brian Trubshaws book "Test Pilot", of Royal Flight Viking VL247 at Cape Town in 1947 (probably at Ysterplaat or Wingfield). The Viking visible just behind is 246. Apparently four Vikings were taken on the tour.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x240/86ad4160_a3fe_4122_8238_25f60d13fc4e_4_5005_c_4ae2c317923771 90fca2f0cc2eb5a70d345c6218.jpeg

[Jhieminga]

IIRC two were used to transport the Royal passengers, one was a 'flying workshop' and the fourth one was spare/crew transport.... but I would have to look that up to be sure. Keith Wilson's 'Royal Flying: A Pictorial History (https://amzn.to/39Sk2ud)' includes some details about these Vikings but I don't have it nearby unfortunately.

[condor17]

There used to be , and may still be a restored painted cannon barrel mounted muzzle up in a grass patch outside the cabbie canteen in the cab waiting area , and across the road from the LHR cop shop .
Reliably , reputed to be where Princess Elizebeth ascended her throne , with her 1st step back onto UK soil , alighting there from the Argonaut .
Equally learned today that the fire dump Argo. was not her a/c.
My LHR years encompassed taxi clearance from the Outer to the Inner via [ in turn ] ' Argonaut Arc , Comet Corner , and Trident Turn ' . Never taxied by the JGG , or otherwise the Boelas / Douging 710/107 ... But could see the steel rusting far quicker than real a/c aged .

rgds condor .

[Hew Jampton]

The cannon marks/marked the datum point of the first survey of Britain and is nothing to do with the Queen. The police station moved off the Airport years ago.

[India Four Two]

condor17,

Nothing so romantic. The cannon marks one end of the baseline (27,404.01 ft) which was measured for the purpose of the triangulation of Great Britain.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/668x502/screen_shot_2022_07_09_at_03_57_06_993e08074ced4ec97d9947bc8 db8f832fde8dd7f.png


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/909x742/general_roys_baseline_6f58ea885b706ef4abaf14d740887e545449d9 88.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_Survey_(1784–1790)

[condor17]

Thanks guys , That's the cannon , never walked past it to read the plaque , mostly in a rush to sign in on time . Every day's a school day .
The cop shop , I knew had moved . Last in at 0300 ish one spring night in '84/'85 ......
I'd 'volunteered' off standby for an evening of hostage negotiator training . With said negotiators , Hijackers, Police Cadet pax. and rumoured 'Bois from the Welsh borders . Started with 2 F/Os, 3 C/C , cadets and hijackers on semi-defunct Trident 3. Got the APU fired up for elecs , a/con, galleys , out by Comet Corner , towards threshold of Rwy09L. Started at 1800 with cadets having rations and urns . Hijackers made themselves known , red button pressed . Various cop cars , tranny vans , and khaki coloured vehicles trailed after a yellow BAA follow me car . We were surrounded !
Various megafone chats , leading to a landline coming aboard . Just before dusk with the makings of a long night ahead , crew realised Cadets had catering but none for us ..
Onto Speedbird Co. freq. ordered 5 hot dinners [ no cheese tray ] . 20 mins later big scissor lift catering truck trundles down taxiway towards us , to find it blocked by khaki truck , slows to go onto grass and around .... 2 men in black , balaclavas and SLRs leap up , haul out the catering delivery guys . Spreadeagled on grass with an SLR in their ears , lots of gesticulations and blue air ... Eventually released to feed us by now cold meals , whose deliverers had huge grins and wide eyes when thy appeared at the catering door . They weren't checked on the way out , leading head hijacker to comment they should have got one of theirs out that way ...
It became clear that the negotiaters were not doing well , and hijackers had by Stockholm Syndrome become mates. Head Hijacker in the cockpit got involved on 'fone hands busy ... Says I , '' I'll hold your gun ''..... finished his chat and ''wheres my AK47'' ?
''Sorry mate it slipped out of the DV window '' ..
Eventually scenario moved on to geeting the all Trident occupants to disembark .... All were meant to be suspects and facedown frisked by Bois in black ..
Started well , quickly disintegrated to farce .
1st. Lovely lady purser not young but a game lady , who we knew well ... Searched ok , stood up to walk to police crew bus ... Fumbled in her uniform blouse , turned around to her searcher and standing by Officer .... '' Here Boys , Catch '' as she tossed them the 2 hand grenades from her bra ... she'd had a double masectomy a few years previous !
2nd. Still had 1/2 the a/c to go when 'Boi in black crouched by LH main wheel , called endex and fire trucks for real evac ... he had fuel dripping onto him .
''Nah '' , we said it's the normal Trident wing cracks , papered over by those plates .. '' we'd go flying in this if needed to , it's safe and legal ''.

All off to cop shop at 0300, for beer and butties , 'cept negotiators who were off for further training .

rgds condor .

[Liffy 1M]

The spot where Elizabeth II first set foot on British soil as monarch is apparently now subsumed by the Renaissance Hotel. https://rocketreach.co/renaissance-london-heathrow-profile_b5eaaae8f42e7ab6

[WHBM]

Quite possibly. The onetime northern taxiway was closed and dug up, the Northern Perimeter Road sort-of follows its alignment, and the large North Side ramp off the taxiway used by various operators is indeed just where that part of the hotel is now.

[DaveReidUK]

The spot where Elizabeth II first set foot on British soil as monarch is apparently now subsumed by the Renaissance Hotel. https://rocketreach.co/renaissance-london-heathrow-profile_b5eaaae8f42e7ab6

Nice try by the Renaissance, but I suspect that the Argonaut's location was actually what's now their car park.