ATC Stopwork

[Tacolote]

Just in,

A national stopwork of Air Traffic Controllers to occur on Friday, 30 August between 5pm and 10pm.

Tacolote

[Aussiebert]

bump

any more word on this?

like a few details of what sercives will be affected

[SM4 Pirate]

Hi OZYBERT,

The nations ATCs will walk off the job, I believe at 32 locations across the country.

Contingency plans by Airlines and Airservices likely to be implemented to allow some flights; but there will be significant delays.

Pretty much if you're not airborne by 3pm, don't expect to go without a long delay if your going to Sydney who knows, depends if they remove the curfew or not. May be travelling Saturday not Friday... :(

Bottle of Rum

[scran]

AsA ATC's at 32 locations across Australia?

Like the Footy Ad said:

"I'd like to see that!!!"


Gotta be more to this - is it all AsA staff (techs as well?) ?

Then you might get a few more locations.........


:p

[SM4 Pirate]

1. AD TWR 2. AD TCU 3. AY TWR 4. AS TWR 5. AF TWR
6. ATS Training College 7. AV TWR 8. BK TWR 9. BN Center
10. BN TWR 11. CS TWR 12. CS TCU 13. CN TWR 14. CB TWR
15. CH TWR 16. CG TWR 17. EN TWR 18. HM TWR 19. HB TWR
20. JT TWR 21. LT TWR 22. MK TWR 23. MC TWR 24. ML TWR
25. ML Centre 26. MB TWR 27. PF TWR 28. PH TWR 29. PH TCU
30. RK TWR 31. SY TCU 32. SY TWR 33. TW TWR.
34. Head Office - but that'd be shut by 5 on Friday so we'll call it 33 at the last count... :cool: :p Hope I didn't miss anyone, sorry if I did.

Bottle of Rum

[Aussiebert]

thanks!

and whats with this 15 character minimum to 'save' bandwidth :p

[scran]

Guys:

I suppose if you really need to make yourself look important - you can fluff the numbers like that -

How far apart are the ML TCU and ML TWR - a 100 metres?



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Anyway - from a Mil ATC, good luck with your actions - and don't let fudderly dudderly spin you out of it by blaiming only you guys - I'm sure the honches are being a pain in the arse as usual!!!!!

[375ml]

Scran, how far apart do you want the SY TCU and TWR to be? a few hundred metres or a thousand odd kilometres? (off topic I know but may be of interest soon). Also if you want to fluff numbers, you may as well say "Airspace over 11% of planet earth's surface closed for 5 hours" ;)

[scran]

Grow up Guys!!!


Saying staff at 32 locations will be off the job might be great, but will the staff at the ATS Training Centre, or Camden Tower, or Archerfield, Bankstown, Avalon and another bunch of places like that, not being there really effect the Joe-Blow travelling public?

Great for solidarity, but really little effect.

If SY/ML/BN/PH/AD etc (in both the TCU's and TWR) are not working, you create the effect you want - why not just say the major centres, or all ATC staff! The average joe would not have a clue how many staff work at Avalon, and seeing they don't service the RPT type traffic that Joe depends on, they don't care.


I don't have a problem with what your doing..(I'm not planning on travelling Friday!)....but I do get just a little concerned when you try and paint a picture using 256 colours when 2 would have done.

It's black and white - if you guys are at work - people fly (white) : if you ain't, they don't (black).

Simple as that.

[Icarus2001]

It's black and white - if you guys are at work - people fly (white) : if you ain't, they don't (black).

I'm sure there will be plenty of flying going on during the stop work Scran, including lots of hastily arranged charters.:)

[scran]

Yeah 2001 - I realise that - but the effect they want to acheive will be made by the staff at the major units not being there - the point I was making is that the effect of the however many ATC staff from Camden (for example) not being at work will be minimal on the travelling public.

[Warren Rabbit]

This seems a good place to post the opinion of one workface controller that I am not happy with this industrial action at all. No opinions were sought, at least where I am, so any suggestion that support for the action was unanimous is utter crap. Civil Air is losing the plot completely.

[Capcom]

Bunny

You were not asked yet, I assume because the process requires that the ENTIRE Membership nationally must decide what CA minimums are to be agreed now that the CA offer has been rejected, as negotiations will now recommence AGAIN soon.

That is the reason for the Stopwork!!

Perhaps you might be best served by thinking about those who are trying to represent the members (Who Voted NO) in what has been a bloody ridiculous 2 years of crap and lies rather that wrongly and frankly disgracefully accusing Civilair of loosing the plot.

Wake Up!!!.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Warren Rabbit]

Capcom, wiser heads than mine have decided that a public forum is a suitable place to air our dirty laundry. It is not a strategy I agree with, but that decision having been made, you must accept its consequences, one of which is that dissenting voices are going to make themselves heard. I simply took the opportunity to express an opinion that the other sectors of aviation may wish to be appraised of, namely that the decision to strike was far from unanimous. Nothing in your post changes that.

It's true that "Civil Air is losing the plot" is subjective, and not backed up by empirical data. If you can persuade me that the executive of Civil Air is not split on this whole matter, I will retract my statement.

And if you or anybody else can translate your first paragraph into something resembling commonsense rather than Real Politik speak, I'll re-assess that too.

Love,

BUNNY

[SM4 Pirate]

There is never been an assertion that there is 100% support for the action, which I have just read on the news.com.au website is cancelled.

What has been stated is that there was unanimous carriage of the resolution that the NE made on Monday, by the National Executive, without absentions. To suggest that the NE is not united is just politcal crap and a genuine 'Dudd'leyism.

If you want a straight answer ask your delegate. I have and he informs me that this so called 'facionalism' was first discovered in the Press release issued by BS on Tuesday night, the media love sh!t like that!

What is also abundantly clear from the divisional meeting I attended on Tuesday, there are far more issues that need to be sorted than the "Special Leave" clause. There was 100% endorsement, over 80 members, at that meeting that backed the NE's position on the action. There was also unanimous support to not vote Yes if this proposal was put again with the Special Leave fixed but nothing else.

Don't know why the action is off, but it appears to be the case. More will be revealed later today, I only hope that ASA genuinely negotiates now there is no gun at their head.

Most of all we want movement and for a reasonable offer to be made.


Bottle of Rum

[ferris]

Warren Rabbit-

All you have to do is GROW SOME FRIGGIN' SPINE.

The matter will end there.

[Wirraway]

AAP

Air traffic controllers' strike off
August 29 2002

Tomorrow's air traffic controllers' strike is off after late-night talks in the industrial commission.

The union representing air traffic controllers, Civil Air, called off the strike after the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) ordered that it not go ahead.

After a hearing that extended late into the night, the AIRC ordered Civil Air and its membership of 1,100 air traffic controllers to abandon plans for the national stop-work tomorrow between 5pm and 10pm.

Commissioner Michael Gay also encouraged the warring parties to return to the negotiating table to resolve their differences.

A spokesman for the union told AAP that Civil Air had called off the strike as a result of the order.

But he said the result was a cause for optimism because it offered fresh hope for talks to break the impasse with employers' body Airservices Australia.

The order found that the industrial action contemplated by the air traffic controllers would not be protected under the Workplace Relations Act and the union could be hit with severe penalties if it did not comply.

The union said the industrial dispute had been deadlocked since April last year and the prospect of fresh talks under the auspices of the AIRC was a source of hope.

AAP

[375ml]

Hi ho hi ho off to the IRC we go ...

Get out your wallets lads & lasses (and BS) -- this is going to get expensive.

[Baileys]

Here we go again. Another 6 months. Wonder if the ED/OT budget will get blown out a bit.

[blind freddy]

Warren,

Do you happen to have a subscription to Crikey.com??
Your posts sound very much like the post that was on the newsletter today.

The article bagged out Civil Air in a similar fashion as you are.

BTW, I believe you are entitled to express your opinion, and this is as good a forum as any!! I however don't agree.

I unfortunately don't have access to the article ( I saw a fax of it).

If anyone can get a copy of it and post it here it would be most appreciated.

[barking mad]

Congratulations to Asa for building team morale! Bring on arbitration. Do Asa really think they will get the best out of there staff this way? Have they got a lot to learn.(Or do they care?)

I love how these managers waltz in and out of corporate companies make there mark, and then waltz out again and we are left with the aftermath, time and time again.

It's time we stood up to these pack of penny pinchers.
Who honestly believes they put safety first!

What a joke the staff survey was!Why not spend more time on an eba, rather than that rubbish.

For people who thought Asa were never going to change the interpretation, surprise. Yes they are gems.

I think there is a really good lesson.

Never, ever, trust Asa.

[Warren Rabbit]

Freddy,

I had a look at the Crikey website but couldn't see anything there. However I've already suggested we shouldn't be airing our dirty laundry in a public forum designed for the aviation world. That goes double for a public site that has nothing to do with aviation, so whatever appeared in crikey, it didn't come from me. BTW thanks for your erudite post, Ferris. A major contribution to the debate.

[375ml]

Geeze bunny boy, how are you getting off on this talk about dirty laundry? OK there are some members that don't want to strike, and there are many more that do. There are a majority of members that want at least CPI pay increase, and there are some that are happy with jack shyte. That's not factional infighting or dirty laundry, that's simply just a difference of opinion in a large number of people. Who cares if it gets discussed in this forum? It doesn't get attached to the Minister's "Media Monitors" press clippings precis of the day. It barely has any influence on the daily papers or even talkback radio, so why get so concerned? Surely you'll agree that "erudite" discussion of the issues is a good thing? Perhaps you'd prefer a closed private forum on the Civil Air website, and maybe that's a good thing, but then some people like yourself won't have that cloak of anonymity, and the debate wouldn't get such positive stimulus without your presence.

[ferris]

Alright WARREN RABBIT, I'm a patient man, I'll put it another way.

You are in the unique position of holding skills that are in world-wide demand. There are current shortages of controllers world-wide, with projected MASSIVE shortages in the next 3 to 5 years. Remuneration is partly a function of supply and demand. On the supply side, managers, through their own short-sightedness, have created a lack of supply, which due to the long lead-in times for this job, cannot be solved for years.
Another aspect of remuneration is; how much money is made from your labour, by your employer? In these difficult times, is AsA profitable? No matter how much managers lie and spin, the fact remains that AsA is a profitable concern.

Now you have have a choice. You can continue to go cap-in-hand to Bernie, saying "please sir, can I have more?". And continue to receive the crumbs that fall from his table. Or you can take this opprtunity to stand up, take a deep breath, and DICTATE TERMS. AsA have played very hard, because they have to. THEY KNOW you hold the cards, all you have to do is call their bluff. You may very well be content with what you have now. But that situation doesn't exist for everyone (see the 5-year FPC people). Furthermore, whilst you are feeling all content about your situation, think about how it came about. At some stage along the line, people in the past DID STAND UP. Doing nothing now gives AsA the green light to continue the steady erosion that has been going on.

Hasn't all the lying, underhandedness, denigration of your profession etc. etc. meant anything to you?

STAND UP.

[375ml]

...we would hope Civil Air and its members appreciate that a new agreement including salary increases and changes to conditions must be paid for and not be out of step with the rest of the organisation’s workforce.
(BS)

Bernie, please confirm that principle applies equally to the board, executive, contract and middle management?

We would also hope you can appreciate that the majority of Civil Air members are in a unique career structure whereby you are virtually the monopoly employer in Australia. This is a significant difference to the rest of the organisation's workforce.

[blind freddy]

Thought you might be interested in this.
Ninemsn had an internet poll last night, and I must say I was pretty surprised at the result:

August 29: Should air traffic controllers be allowed to strike?
Yes 14,190 (58%)
No 10,013 (42%)

I would have thought the travelling public wouldn't support us at all. Not a bad result.


Also, I have heard a rumour that Qantas sent emails to all their passengers that were going to be inconvienienced by the stop work meeting. The email was rumoured to contain Bernies letter that had the "facts" statements on it.
Any one know more about this??

P.S. Lets stop picking on the funny bunny man, we may as well talk about "facts";)