Brisbane Airport

[Mr Approach]

It looks as though the Greens may pick up the three electorates affected by noise from the new 19R/01L. They were the only party that promised to do everything demanded by the noise lobby.
Assuming Labor ends up having to cooperate with the Greens to pass legislation, and the Greens price is a Brisbane Airport curfew and movement caps:
My question is:
Can Brisbane Airport Corporation sue the two Federal Government agencies, Airservices and CASA, responsible for flight paths and deleting the 10 Knot tailwind exemption that have caused the problems?
Note: Airservices has been slammed by an inquiry for lack of consultation and told by consultants they did not try very hard, and CASA could have allowed the 10 tailwind exemption to continue for 01R (properly authorised 30 years ago and still in use until Airservices asked the question) while not approving in excess of 5 kts for 01L.
Any aviation lawyers out there?

[IAW]

Just follow the money. If the threat of a curfew is real, all involved will suddenly find a way to staff more over the water movements.

The airlines will either absorb the higher fees or pass them on to the punters.

​​​BAC have themselves to blame as their mock community consultation and promised noise levels was baloney, and makes them look like they intentionally had something to hide.

[Australopithecus]

Interesting questions and big assumptions. The big issue is climate change, and realpolitik may diminish the urgency of any other election promises including airport noise.

[tossbag]

Given that the new communist leader of Australia's electorate is the one that overlays Sydney's airport, you can assume that the idiot will kowtow to the greens and Brisbane will get a shiny new curfew.

Albanese is a walkover, you only have to watch the childish way he behaves in press conferences and his ridiculous scolding of his supporters at his victory speech. He behaves like a clown. No one has any respect for him, check his body langauge, he is sh!tting himself at the thought of having to make decisions.

[Derfred]

Wasn't Albanese the architect of Sydney Airport's ridiculous legislation that still hampers airport efficiency to this day?

https://anthonyalbanese.com.au/private-members-bill-sydney-airport-regulation-of-movements-bill-1996-first

[dr dre]

I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

If opposition to more aircraft noise in congested areas drove voters to the Greens well that's democracy in action, but you'll also find the LNP members in Brisbane last month acknowledged (https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-s-flight-paths-will-be-redrawn-after-noise-complaints-soared-20220404-p5aanq.html) increased noise in the city is an issue and vowed to make changes to decrease noise.

The real problem is most Australian airports have an approach or departure track over a large proportion of that city's urban area. Brisbane 01, Sydney 16, Adelaide 23 stand out. Great view out the window but you're going to annoy a lot of people underneath. If we had long term foresight in this country we'd plan and build airports some distance from the urban area serviced by fast rail and road links, make greater use of RNP for curved approaches and get cracking on better insulation materials like graphene that'd take engine noise down by quite a few decibels.

[Australopithecus]

Hell, I am all for a curfew. Preferably one that ends at 0900. Aircraft noise affected areas in BNE have a legitimate complaint in my view. The ridiculous STARs with their low level nav exercises add to noise, as do early speed reduction targets which mean early flaps and more aero noise.

The larger agenda you guys are missing is the carbon one. A 60% reduction in carbon in 7.5 years is not going to leave any industry or transport mode unaffected. 60% is what some teal independents are talking about. The political dialogue is soon going to be all carbon, all the time.

Global carbon reduction targets are going to be missed by a wide margin, yet our industry's noise is still going to become our least troublesome emission.

[DHC4]

Given that the new communist leader of Australia's electorate is the one that overlays Sydney's airport, you can assume that the idiot will kowtow to the greens and Brisbane will get a shiny new curfew.

Albanese is a walkover, you only have to watch the childish way he behaves in press conferences and his ridiculous scolding of his supporters at his victory speech. He behaves like a clown. No one has any respect for him, check his body langauge, he is sh!tting himself at the thought of having to make decisions.

Communist leader, your pain really makes me happy.

[BravoSierraLima]

A compromise idea: if it comes to it, what about just putting a curfew on the new runway only and the older one can take all the overnight arrivals/departures? They could add in an exemption that the new runway is used when the old runway is closed for works overnight. The traffic between 2300-0600 can be handled by one runway and residents under the flight paths for 01R/19L are already used to the noise.

[Car RAMROD]

I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.


well they would be fairly hypocritical then... complaining about the noise they themselves are generating...

[tossbag]

I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

In the mid 90's I lived on the 7 ways at Rockdale, our rear balcony was on the flight path for Runway 07 at Sydney (before the parallel). A slab, pizza and deckchair and it was bloody great. the aircraft would be below 1000ft at that stage. A lot lower than the morons in Brisbane are complaining about.

Does it lower the real estate values? Bull**** it does, check any of the sale prices in the last year or so. You get used to the level of noise.

[tossbag]

Communist leader, your pain really makes me happy.

Dude, trust me, politicians don't pain me, they're all the same. Liars pain me, Albanese trying to hide his clear communist links is the pain.

[maggot]

Curfews are great5am reports are early enough
what's with boomers and commy panic

[Ozdork]

A compromise idea: if it comes to it, what about just putting a curfew on the new runway only and the older one can take all the overnight arrivals/departures? They could add in an exemption that the new runway is used when the old runway is closed for works overnight. The traffic between 2300-0600 (tel:2300-0600) can be handled by one runway and residents under the flight paths for 01R/19L are already used to the noise.

That doesn’t sound like a compromise, it sounds like shoving the problem somewhere else and letting them suffer, as long you’re ok

[By George]

In the early eighties I lived in Gover St North Adelaide right under the flight path, around the five mile point for RW23 (1500ft on the ILS). Never bothered me the slightest, in fact, when outside I enjoyed seeing who was going over. On dead still days with no wind the occasional vortex rotor would descend onto my washing line making a strange whooshing sound that would flip my undies about. A bit of rough justice I suppose, being an airline pilot and having ones underwear spun around by jet wash.
When Melbourne's Tullamarine opened it was in the middle of nowhere. Now look at all the houses under the 27 ILS. Not to mention, todays jets sound like anaemic lawn mowers compared to the old F28 and 727. Those beautiful aeroplanes would shake the earth.

[MickG0105]

I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

Suddenly popped up?! The parallel runway has been in the Brisbane Airport masterplan going back to at least 1988. Those flight paths didn't "suddenly pop up".

What evolved under those long planned flight paths was the gentrification of the formerly dockside, commercial and light industrial suburbs of New Farm and Teneriffe. And if anyone buying into that area had have been even vaguely interested in what the coming flight paths would deliver in terms of noise all they needed to do was drive to Morningside and listen to traffic from the original runway passing over.

[fokker1000]

People who have very expensive properties in West London complain about jet noise, yet they did knew about that little airport called Heathrow when they moved in...... And seem to like to fly to get their little break in the sun every few months...... There is a word I'm trying to think of here.... It begins with H.

Answers on a postcard please folks :8 Par Avion of course!!

[sagan]

On dead still days with no wind the occasional vortex rotor would descend onto my washing line making a strange whooshing sound that would flip my undies about. A bit of rough justice I suppose, being an airline pilot and having ones underwear spun around by jet wash.


Very funny :)

[Biggles_in_Oz]

In the mid 90's I lived on the 7 ways at Rockdale, our rear balcony was on the flight path for Runway 07 at Sydney (before the parallel). A slab, pizza and deckchair and it was bloody great. the aircraft would be below 1000ft at that stage. A lot lower than the morons in Brisbane are complaining about.

Does it lower the real estate values? Bull**** it does, check any of the sale prices in the last year or so. You get used to the level of noise.

It also helps that a lot of houses in that area got sound-insulation, paid for by a noise-levy on tickets.
I missed out, and now get awakened by the 9:45pm to 10:45pm and/or the 6:01am to 6:20am westward scramble out of SYD.

[Australopithecus]

It also helps that a lot of houses in that area got sound-insulation, paid for by a noise-levy on tickets.
I missed out, and now get awakened by the 9:45pm to 10:45pm and/or the 6:01am to 6:20am westward scramble out of SYD.

Are you contemplating spending your own money to value-add to your house?

[BravoSierraLima]

That doesn’t sound like a compromise, it sounds like shoving the problem somewhere else and letting them suffer, as long you’re ok


I don’t live in BNE, never have, don’t have an investment property or any financial interest there.

Hopefully your blood pressure has dropped since you commented.

[BO0M]

100% agree MickG0105 ........I lived in the area for the best part of 10 years. BAC actually did a resonable job of consulting the communtiy and were down at the markets with their interactive bus every weekend. People here just wernt interseted and thought it wouldn't be an issue. Hamilton is a great example of this where people paid well over the top for new appartments that are now directly under the flight path.

As I said to the noise groups (but got trolled off FoolBook for it), instead of pushing for curfews and complaining seek ideas to combat the noise. In the US they insulate houses, sound proofing and adjust flight paths (slightly) to accomodate the community. It's a cheaper and more effective way of dealing with the issue becasue all BAC, Airservices and Airlines see are dollar signs. The bonus with such improvements to the properties is they actually become more livable.

Lastly..........the noise isn't that bad. The d&^kheads partying to 3am on a Thursday night down the road create more issues for my school age children and our quality of life than a 73 going overhead.

[QldPilotGuy]

"Bo0m" Couldn't agree more. Am so sick and tired of people in these neighbourhoods complaining about this. The 2nd runway has been in the works for decades and there was plenty of consultation, I remember seeing the BNE bus for many months in many areas around Brisbane.

These people that are complaining live within 7km of a major airport and they are complaining about flights. It has done nothing to your house value and generally these are very wealthy areas, maybe invest in double glazing, insulation and other methods to mitigate the noise. Also if you are going to complain about the flights how about you also start complaining about people in their Ferrari's, porches and lambos that drive along kingsford smith drive and crosby road at a 100km/h.

There is barely 10 flights between 2200 and 0600, most of these departures as well are with modern quiet aircraft. What was the point of a second runway if you put in a curfew and limit movements. I also find it interesting with people suggesting everything just take off and depart over the bay. I wonder how eager they will be to be on a flight that has to accept a 10 knot tailwind to avoid taking off into the wind. You also have the Greens saying they are all about climate change, yet they are happy for aircraft to be flying alot more track miles, burning more fuel, all for the sake of not flying over a house at 2,000+ feet.

Stop complaining about progress, or if you don't want any noise then move to the country. And before anyone complains, I used to live in Newstead, had constant construction and pile driving from 6am, 6 days a week. I moved to somewhere closer to the airport and even with the aircraft, its a hell of alot quieter then construction.

[tossbag]

what's with boomers and commy panic

You'll find out soon enough ;)

[Shot Nancy]

Brizzy airport check in:
“Good morning Mr Jones, off to Phuket I see?”
”Yes. Love a bit of a flight away to an exotic destination to relax.”
”Oh dear, the system shows that you have made quite a few aircraft noise complaints.”
”Yes, well, umm.”
”I am terribly sorry Sir, you have been deemed a sook and are not permitted to fly to or from this airport.
Your booking is hereby canceled.”

[Thirsty]

With all those newly colored flags in the background of the newly minted PM presser, all you need to do is...
Find artefacts of distant indigenous relatives where the flight path is going to be.
Wouldn't want to disturb them, would we?

[601]

build airports some distance from the urban area serviced by fast rail and road links,

BNE was and is.

[angry ant]

All airports have noise. The main airport was approved in the very early 1970's. The second main runway was planned in the early 1980's and work was commenced on it, in 2013. So if you moved into
a suburb under the flight paths or noise area after these dates, your problem!

[Wingnuts]

We should get serious re new runway. It was not needed 10 years ago, it is not needed now and it will not be needed in 10 years time.
Shut it down!
Curfews, adjusted flight paths etc is mere tinkering.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Brizzy airport check in:
“Good morning Mr Jones, off to Phuket I see?”
”Yes. Love a bit of a flight away to an exotic destination to relax.”
”Oh dear, the system shows that you have made quite a few aircraft noise complaints.”
”Yes, well, umm.”
”I am terribly sorry Sir, you have been deemed a sook and are not permitted to fly to or from this airport.
Your booking is hereby canceled.”

That would be fantastic.

[morno]

We should get serious re new runway. It was not needed 10 years ago, it is not needed now and it will not be needed in 10 years time.
Shut it down!
Curfews, adjusted flight paths etc is mere tinkering.

I hope that’s satire

[Falling Leaf]

We should get serious re new runway. It was not needed 10 years ago, it is not needed now and it will not be needed in 10 years time.
Shut it down!
Curfews, adjusted flight paths etc is mere tinkering.

Not needed? Hmm, which airport was most plagued outside of Sydney for RTA's...

But maybe you are right. After all those years of being slowed down and vectored around for an RTA when they were building the new RWY, how many times was something similiar said in flight decks around Australia "Thankfully the new RWY will get rid of these delays".

[tossbag]

It also helps that a lot of houses in that area got sound-insulation, paid for by a noise-levy on tickets.

Pretty sure nothing under the 07 flight path got 'free' noise insulation. Wasn't it only underneath 16L/34R?

[Roller Merlin]

I’ve had a bit part in early consultation for the parallel runway in MEL. An overriding consideration is noise with a proposal for most approaches from south over the bay. 34L/R to have ILS approaches with airspace changes. Wait for complaints then!

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Pretty sure nothing under the 07 flight path got 'free' noise insulation. Wasn't it only underneath 16L/34R?

True (afaik), but then Mr Johnny Howard decided to 'share the noise'.
(the fact that his electorate was not far from the northern end of 34L i'm sure had nothing to do with that decision)

[Bleve]

Pretty sure nothing under the 07 flight path got 'free' noise insulation. Wasn't it only underneath 16L/34R?
Not true. I was in a shared rental under the 07 flight path. The house DID get free noise insulation, as did all the surrounding houses.

[sunnySA]

Was Barry Jones involved?
spaghetti policy. (https://australianpolitics.com/2001/10/23/liberals-attack-beazley-over-knowledge-nation.html)