VARA to operate -700, Dutch Oven out, MAX8 back.

[PoppaJo]

Must have got some cheap MAX8 slots. -10 looks like it’s never going to get off the ground.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-max-8-delivery-february-2023

[-41]

Must have got some cheap MAX8 slots. -10 looks like it’s never going to get off the ground.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-max-8-delivery-february-2023

​​​​​​ohh my VARA operating the inferior Boeing 73 🥳
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[Red69]

Seems like a very common sense move. New management are getting done what previous management failed to do (Tiger fleet transition). Nice, steady growth, VA is making all the right moves imo.

[Icarus2001]

"...continue on our journey to net zero"

A journey away from reality more like.

[non_state_actor]

How do two independent operations with two independent sets of EAs and work rules legally use 1 AOC?

[Lead Balloon]

Because the criteria for the issue of an AOC do not include that all employees of the AOC holder are employed under the same conditions, or that the operator operate only one aircraft type, or that the operator conduct only one classification of operations...

[Servo]

VARA A320 Captain is now getting paid more than B737 Captain at Virgin................... Unions couldn't see that happening................. They will now be used to lower conditions even further. F%^K I hate this industry.

[non_state_actor]

Because the criteria for the issue of an AOC do not include that all employees of the AOC holder are employed under the same conditions, or that the operator operate only one aircraft type, or that the operator conduct only one classification of operations...

So why has CASA so vehemently prevented this over the years? Renting out your AOC has never been allowed.

Why not then just have sub contract pilots like a trucking company?

[Icarus2001]

How do two independent operations with two independent sets of EAs and work rules legally use 1 AOC? So which company is doing that then?


https://australianaviation.com.au/2015/02/virgin-australia-to-relinquish-nz-air-operators-certificate/

[Lead Balloon]

So why has CASA so vehemently prevented this over the years? Renting out your AOC has never been allowed.

Why not then just have sub contract pilots like a trucking company?It depends what you mean by "this" and "renting out".

I'm not aware of any rule that prohibits an AOC holder from utilising pilots who are independent contractors or employees of someone other than the AOC holder. It's about control over and visibility of the pilot's qualifications and currency and flight and duty times and... all of which can be done through contracts.

I suspect that few 'big' AOC holders do it yet because the public's not yet programmed to accept the concept. Maintenance: Yes.

[PoppaJo]

Bonza are outsourcing all its Pilots and Cabin Crew to CAE. Remains to be seen however, doubtful it’s going to be rainbows and lollipops.

[Lead Balloon]

Bonza is continuing to provide entertainment, but in the real world....

Flying training organisations in Australia are AOC holders. Hands up those who say no flying training organisation has ever engaged instructors on an independent contractor basis, with the knowledge of CASA.

[Icarus2001]

The majors know that contracting out is a double edged sword. Pilots could move, would move with demand. $$$$$$

The seniority system has advantages for airlines as it stifles the free movement of labour. If pilots could walk across the road and start flying in a week, then keeping them happy would be more important to management.

[-41]

More great news for VAA 73 First Officer career progression.

[43Inches]

The seniority system has advantages for airlines as it stifles the free movement of labour. If pilots could walk across the road and start flying in a week, then keeping them happy would be more important to management.

Or the airline would just take captains that accept lower salaries over the existing staff who might be militant. That is Bob works for x airline as captain, but b airline pays 15% more, so he takes 10% less than the current pilots to get through the door but still gets 5% more than his current job. He shafts several FOs out of their natural progression and the company then only offers the staff that rate from then on. It's also much easier to dupe an outsider about how good your pay and conditions are, by the time they pass the rosy glasses phase its too late and they have accepted the remuneration package. Thats what the Libs wanted to enable with individual contracts, and is what happens in reality as most will take what they can and not take up the fight alone without a group behind them, aka unions. Seniority might suck for movement, but it does protect us from those that would 'work for less' for no other reason than to fly something else.

[Gnadenburg]

Concur! Well put.

I’m not sure I’ve ever met an airline pilot, whose bar mantra is that the dismantling of the seniority systems, serves a greater good, has ever done anything collectively for their profession. More likely they are envious opportunists.

[Icarus2001]

Seniority might suck for movement, but it does protect us from those that would 'work for less' for no other reason than to fly something else. I want to believe but the seniority system did not prevent VB starting up with low wages compared to the standard of the late 1990s and also brought in pay for type rating. So it has limits. “ Natural FO progression” mmmmm

In a booming market for pilots companies will not ( cannot) offer less to attract the bottom feeders, they will need to offer more to attract people to join them. Why do the ME3 pay so well? Because they like spending money?
Seniority works best when there are too many pilots for the jobs on offer.
Ask Network, Alliance and Jetstar how their pilot numbers are going.

[mates rates]

It may not be the best system,but it’s the best system available.For all the reasons above as well as protecting against brown nosing and crawling.You still see that for jobs in the office and checking department etc but ungrades and basings are, for the most part,protected.

[43Inches]

Another good point, airline startups, where there is no seniority does show all the worst cases where its jobs for mates and mates of mates. Even if thats not the case, if someone is knocked backed for another thats what rumors will spread, so having a line up system means everybody gets the same chance in line.

[Icarus2001]

So what is the timeline for the transition to 737 operations?

[airdualbleedfault]

So what is the timeline for the transition to 737 operations?
I think the vara crew start training with VA last quarter of this year. Grab the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show. Can anyone say "Ansett training Kendell" without having a good laugh :}