EK Salary Review Time Again

[Pixy]

It's that time of year again for the annual review of pilot remuneration at EK.

Expectations seem to vary from highly optimistic to nothing at all. What can pilots look forward to, if anything?

As I see it here are the potential elements for change:


An increase in the Salary Scale. Apart from a 0.5% increase, the basic Salary Scale has not changed since May 2011. An FO joining at Level 1 in 2022 is earning 0.5% more than one who joined after May 2011. (That’s about USD 50 increase in a decade)
A step of 3%. Originally this was a Step up the salary scale based on loyalty and experience. The Salary Scale has 35 steps in it. Each year a pilot would move up one step. In 2009 the company withheld the Step for 2 years during the GFC and then resumed the steps in 2011. Once again they stopped in 2019. There has been no Step since then.
Increase in Flying Pay. This has not increased since May 2018 when it was raised by 5%
Increase in Accommodation Allowance. This was reduced, for the first time ever, by 15% in 2020.
Increase in Productivity Pay. This was last increased in May 2018 when it was increased by 10%
Reimbursement of the 50% salary withheld for Company cash flow for 6 months in 2020. A four-week “Ex Gratia” payment was made earlier this year. No explanation was given leading to the assumption by many that this was the first of 3 payments to refund the 2020 deductions. A Fly Dubai payment approximately refunding salary lost seemed to reinforce this theory. However, no further payments followed and queries relating to it went unanswered. One would think that this would be refunded in due course before bonuses and profits were dished out as that would seem the decent thing to do, but hope for this is waning.
Profit Share. Highly unlikely as there are large losses to recuperate.
Bonus. These generally only apply to management above a certain level so not likely to be applicable to those who flew into the pandemic and all that risked and entailed.
Education Allowances. This is largely driven by the costs of schooling in Dubai.
Return of additional 3% Provident Fund contribution for long-term pilots. This is likely gone forever. It was a remanent from the days when long service was more valued and appreciated.

What will happen remains to be seen but should be announced in the next 2 weeks assuming the May review happens as in previous years.

Inflation is already biting hard in Dubai as it follows the rest of the world. Food prices are soaring leaving many reluctant to spend on travel. Interest rates will rise fast making loans harder to pay and making travel a nonessential expense. Fuel prices are high which is never good for aviation, particularly with a fleet of 4 engine jets. There is a strong chance of recession around the world. China seems to be intent on lockdown forever, disrupting supply chains thereby contributing to the inflationary effects. The fact that the Chinese cannot travel will also dent loads and yields. And of course, the devastating war in Ukraine will have many knock-on effects in relation to energy and food prices.

All in all a grim outlook and IMHO unlikely to foster generosity for a pay review.

While there is a steady stream of resignations, attrition remains below 5% with pilots and on the other side, there is a steady stream of new joiners and rejoiners. Most however have a very short horizon to stay as they look for jobs closer to home or seek to go back to a different life they discovered having been made redundant. Many pilots are simply jaded with the profession, as it offers little security, much fatigue, loss of family life, and ever-diminishing rewards.

In real terms a pilots take home in the Middle East has decreased by 60% in the last 2 decades and the trajectory is ever downwards. Perhaps something to consider before uprooting the family to come here. But then there are not a lot of choices as the trend has been industry-wide. In fact more and more seem to seek an exit from the profession completely.

I know one thing with almost absolute certainty: In a year’s time we will be 5-10% worse off in terms of purchasing power and saving potential than we are before the imminent Salary Review. Nonetheless, we can live in hope that the Review will offer some respite.

[Kennytheking]

Will be less than I hope for and more than I expect. For sure will be less than I am worth.

[Frankym]

Unfortunately, They can get plenty of qualified captain with 50% pay cut at the moment. Not to mention pay increase.

[lostinspace89]

I think you’ll find its the same situation in most countries in Europe also. Still many more benefits financially in EK than most EU “big” airlines post covid. Our company has had a pay freeze for 5 years and with the highest inflation rate in most Western Europe has no intent to offer any rise (not even 0.5%) . The grass is all brown.

[Frankym]

I think you’ll find its the same situation in most countries in Europe also. Still many more benefits financially in EK than most EU “big” airlines post covid. Our company has had a pay freeze for 5 years and with the highest inflation rate in most Western Europe has no intent to offer any rise (not even 0.5%) . The grass is all brown.

pretty sad.. I even think there's no such as excellent pay for expat (i.e. china) like before.
Except for U.S.A, crazy hiring and pilot shortage.

[Kennytheking]

Unfortunately, They can get plenty of qualified captain with 50% pay cut at the moment. Not to mention pay increase.
Whilst that is true, they are severely constrained by training limitations. As a result, it is in their interest to reduce the outflow. I suspect retention is going to become an issue. People are far more attuned to the "expat" risk of working in another country - I expect to be compensated for that risk. Jobs are becoming available elsewhere and opportunities will continue to grow - I will be looking at them with a vastly different perspective to pre-covid. My priorities have been sharply honed by recent events and whilst it's a good job, ALL that matters is whether it is bringing home the bread, or not.

[ProJoystick]

Hey guys im a CX FO looking to jump ship since CX massive paycut. Does anyone have a copy of Emirates or Qatar contract so I can compare the package? I am happy to share CX "toilet paper" contract for those who is crazy enough to move to hk. Thanks.

[allaru]

They don’t use toilet paper in the Middle East.

[paule737]

You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.

Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage.

If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously!

Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you…

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I don’t think so.

Europe is still quite a bit down on 2019 levels. Companies still not recruiting in droves. Legacy’s definitely not this year just taking back those made redundant and those that are in hold pools.
RYR and Wizz only companies flying more than 2019 but they have just filled gaps from carriers gone under. RYR crews still on the 20% pay cut and flying max hours again and have been for a year now.

Inflation rates going to bite and slow things down again. 7.8% average Euro zone. Netherlands at 11%!!! Others more.
Turkey inflations at what 60% currently!!!

I doubt salaries are going to go up anywhere outside of US.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.

Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage.

If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously!

Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you…

desperate to go back
yes and no
If you look into the names who are going back and can’t wait for, I assume most of them have a big time Problem to go somewhere else by the terms of their licenses
as UK lic holders you can only stay in UK or go back to ME
If you don’t have an EASA lic or FAA lic ( and if you have a FAA lic, you still don’t have a green card - which is a lengthy and costly thing to do) you are not going anywhere else then back to EK

[lostinspace89]

You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.

Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage.

If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously!

Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you…

Can you provide proof of the MASSIVE opportunities in Europe?

Theres an 8% inflation record in the UK and there are no airlines hiring even though flying had picked up. Many airlines still on covid contracts or pay freezes. Yes you’re right things are picking up but salaries or opportunities are down.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Mercifully, unions are banned in the UAE. Without threats and intimidation to unnaturally disguise an employee's value, what is revealed is the market value of any employee.

Whatever Emirates is offering, it is the current value of a widebody pilot based in Dubai.

You can't argue with market economics.

[Frankym]

Can you provide proof of the MASSIVE opportunities in Europe?

Theres an 8% inflation record in the UK and there are no airlines hiring even though flying had picked up. Many airlines still on covid contracts or pay freezes. Yes you’re right things are picking up but salaries or opportunities are down.

I think that's his fantasy.

[felixthecat]

I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.

[DentBuckle]

Same situation here in Indonesia, as i work in biggest LCC in the country. Massive pay cut ranging 70-90% starts in 2020 without any information about the payback. LOFT and OPC seems to be harder it's planned to be held once per 3 months. I think they're try to squeeze the pilots here, so we can break the contracts and pay the penalty. Clever enough 😬

[Frankym]

I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.
Numbers are not "Massive".

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I know people recently employed by DHL, Ryanair, Norse, Vistajet, OneAir ……. So not quite a fantasy.

I have heard of a few employed by those companies and also heard of a fair few who were at the interviews from EK and didn’t get positions. Not forgetting for UK licence holders there isn’t anything. Getting back an EASA will set you back ££££.
EASA Intial C1 £800-£1k, has to be done with a registered EU EASA medical place, in the UK that’s either Birmingham or London. EU it’s easier, outside of that good luck.
Skills test. Name your price. (£1-3k).
EASA English test (yes even if a native speaker) £200.
CAA fee £45.
EASA licence fee, varies £400-£600.

These fees are the basics so without travel etc etc.

Say £3k minimum. That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list.
Oh and some now asking for ability to reside in EU land. UK passport/licence holders are extremely limited now. I hold EASA and UK now which has opened many more doors. For UK peeps it’s very limited.

Flybe have started operations again (operating Q400) after going under March 2020. FO salary used to be £29k starting and could add around £10k to that with duty pay etc. Capt £71k with again £10k added.
Same aircraft I have heard they are now offering FO £25kish without all the extras. Captains around £50k.

Welcome to 2022 post COVID.

[felixthecat]

I have heard of a few employed by those companies and also heard of a fair few who were at the interviews from EK and didn’t get positions. Not forgetting for UK licence holders there isn’t anything. Getting back an EASA will set you back ££££.
EASA Intial C1 £800-£1k, has to be done with a registered EU EASA medical place, in the UK that’s either Birmingham or London. EU it’s easier, outside of that good luck.
Skills test. Name your price. (£1-3k).
EASA English test (yes even if a native speaker) £200.
CAA fee £45.
EASA licence fee, varies £400-£600.

These fees are the basics so without travel etc etc.

Say £3k minimum. That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list.
Oh and some now asking for ability to reside in EU land. UK passport/licence holders are extremely limited now. I hold EASA and UK now which has opened many more doors. For UK peeps it’s very limited.

Flybe have started operations again (operating Q400) after going under March 2020. FO salary used to be £29k starting and could add around £10k to that with duty pay etc. Capt £71k with again £10k added.
Same aircraft I have heard they are now offering FO £25kish without all the extras. Captains around £50k.

Welcome to 2022 post COVID.

That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list.

Ryanair are looking for Learjet pilots with UK FCL
DHL UK wanted UK FCL
Norse wanted UK FCL
OneAir wanted UK FCL

Vistjet is the only one in that list that needs EASA

[AIMINGHIGH123]

That’s just to be able to apply to most of the companies on your list.

Ryanair are looking for Learjet pilots with UK FCL
DHL UK wanted UK FCL
Norse wanted UK FCL
OneAir wanted UK FCL

Vistjet is the only one in that list that needs EASA

You never stated RYR Learjet.
Anyway let’s look into more detail.

For Norse you can have UK FCL but complete the transfer to EASA before starting your position.

Of those DHL the best.

OneAir my friend was offered a start date months ago but still hasn’t started. They keep delaying. I think Captain salty at OneAir was what £90k? 747 Captain £90k? Seriously?

The RYR Learjet position is horrible. You only have to go on to flight radar and look at the type of flights it does. Lots of sitting around at airports on standby and most of the crews want to leave.

And all of them hardly airlines with massive fleets taking 100s of pilots.

edit: To add the OneAir needed 747 TR to apply as well.

From all the pilots made redundant from flybe the ones with jobs I know either:
1. Have an EASA licence
2. Gone to Asia/ME.
3. Had connections within Private Jet sector.
4. Managed to get back into Flybe 2.0 but on a package far far worse than before.

Great airlines to choose from.

With EASA you have many many more options.

[felixthecat]

So to add yet more detail for you….

I stated FR, I didn’t state if it was for 737 or Learjet until I added more information. I didn’t state if it was captains or FOs either but the Learjet position is for captains.
OneAir have taken several EK pilots who have started already and the package is more than 90K. Even if that was it, its better than driving a supermarket van on minimum wage. They have also taken many pilots without 747 ratings.
Norse don’t require you to have an EASA licence if you are going to be UK based, only if European based.
And DHL is still on a UK FCL if you want it.

If you wish to split more hairs feel free….

No not the worlds best options but there are jobs out there, but it is indeed easier if you have the EASA licence, and all in all its much easier than last year.

[aviatorLeo]

You must be pretty desperate to return/apply to EK nowadays.

Europe’s massively picking up and U.S. running into a pilot shortage.

If you have not managed to get a decent job outside the Middle East yet, something went wrong, seriously!

Whatever, been there, done that, got that T-Shirt - good luck to all of you…
if that's the case we should see a massive exodus from EK considering how ****ty things are over there right?

[Pif Paf]

Thread drift again.
Thought this was supposed to be about EK salary review!
any other EK salary review rumours ?

[ThrustAssymComp]

Same situation here in Indonesia, as i work in biggest LCC in the country. Massive pay cut ranging 70-90% starts in 2020 without any information about the payback. LOFT and OPC seems to be harder it's planned to be held once per 3 months. I think they're try to squeeze the pilots here, so we can break the contracts and pay the penalty. Clever enough 😬

Which one? JT? 18/20 yrs contract?

[Shazeem]

if that's the case we should see a massive exodus from EK considering how ****ty things are over there right?

The golden cage can be opened. Then again, for a lot of people it is better than home. All relative. Halas. Would you leave EK without having another job?
Most expats seem to be miserable but try to focus on the good things (wine, Legoland, APC, karak, Expo) otherwise insanity will win.

​​​​

[Pif Paf]

So I guess no one has any good rumours about any pay rise / bonus?
just about sums EK up at present!

[BigGeordie]

I don't think anybody has any expectations to manage anymore.

[Shazeem]

I believe it is best to expect nothing. Then everything else is a bonus.
​​​​​​
To make this work, you do have to forget the halfpay and perks which were taken away the last few years. At least the laundry service is still for free. What to do.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

The lure of the Middle East will be stronger than ever is my guess.

Yes T+Cs have been eroded but back here in UK it’s hardly a bed of roses.

Ignoring way of life in Dubai and culture which is personal preference when you crunch numbers still some serious money can be saved or enjoyed.

Comparing Dubai to London. City to city I found prices are pretty even. When I was there last year a meal out with family was around 300-400AED. Same as in London at a local pub however the portions were more in Dubai. After every meal we would take food away with us.

When you start adding tax in Dubai becomes attractive.

Ok so FO EK Earns 30k AED a month
To earn that in UK you would need £130k a year at least.
That’s not even adding accommodation.

Start adding up all the extras and how much can you save?

Say you work at LHR for BA. Spend £300 1500 AED a month in fuel but you need to earn £600 before tax to pay that £300 fuel bill.

That’s just one example.

Not saying you shouldn’t be given a pay rise. Whole industry needs to bump up but compared to some salaries in EU/UK land ME carriers looking attractive.

[Kennytheking]

The lure of the Middle East will be stronger than ever is my guess.

You are not wrong about that but I would counter that there is going to be a retention problem rather than a recruiting problem.

I'm not a moaner and I often defend the company here against some of the rampant bs that people spread but i would be lying if I didn't say there were some realities to living here. It's a fine job, but after 16 years, I am desperately seeking the motivation to stay - it would just be nice to see some 'give' from management after all of the 'take'. Otherwise I'm gonna pull the pin on my covid escape plan and they can pay for 2 pilots' training to replace me.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

You are not wrong about that but I would counter that there is going to be a retention problem rather than a recruiting problem.

I'm not a moaner and I often defend the company here against some of the rampant bs that people spread but i would be lying if I didn't say there were some realities to living here. It's a fine job, but after 16 years, I am desperately seeking the motivation to stay - it would just be nice to see some 'give' from management after all of the 'take'. Otherwise I'm gonna pull the pin on my covid escape plan and they can pay for 2 pilots' training to replace me.

The old age trouble of where is the grass greener. I’m at that point of pushing 40.
Is a legacy worth it?
Is it better to go with a LCC smashing out 4 sectors day after day?
Is it better to go ME carrier be sensible and bank some ££€€$$?

Have to choose what feels best for me right.

I know a guy who did 15 years at EK and only stopped because he had to. Loved every minute of it and goes back to Dubai almost every other month.
Others last a year and can’t cope.
Run away never to return.

Back to salary/packages I can’t see anywhere bumping up much if at all. Jet2 crew have been given some sort of raise but that’s the only one I know of and still below inflation.

[1201alarm]

AIMINGHIGH123,

I can see your reasoning. Ever considered to invest a few 100 bucks and try the NIW-Visa-Route for the US? If I would have to start from scratch, that is what I would try.

And the US will have to open up at one point, they are simply running out of guys with the necessary 1500 hours, and it is easier to play with immigration bureaucracy than to change a law that has the public perception of having made aviation safer.

All the best.

[Whitemonk Returns]

I have been watching these threads for 10 years and still haven't figured out how much the provident fund actually is for each rank so if anyone could clarify how that works I would appreciate IT. How much every month and how long to qualify etc. I gather an FO salary of around £6k but what is a Captain getting?

I'm currently a Captain in the UK getting around £6k into my account and £3.3k into my pension every month. Could go into training in a year or so but their lifestyle isn't great in my company so weighing up a ME move for 5 or 10 years once this impending recession is over in a couple of years. All the best. W

[Visual Procedures]

EK pays an extra 12% of your base salary into the provident fund scheme. There's years of service required before you can leave and take it. It used to be 15% for those over 10 years, but don't mention the war..

Captain pay is 10 steps more than FO. A step is 3%. We used to get a pay step every year. There has only been 1 step increase since 2016.. There I go again.. mentioning the war..

[BANANASBANANAS]

I believe it is best to expect nothing. Then everything else is a bonus.
​​​​​​
To make this work, you do have to forget the halfpay and perks which were taken away the last few years. At least the laundry service is still for free. What to do.

I expected nothing from EK in my last year and they still managed to disappoint me!

[Whitemonk Returns]

Allaru and VP thank you for the excellent responses, in that case I'll hang on and watch my kids grow up and reassess in another 5 years.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Sorry those white monk figures don’t add up to me?

You getting around £130k a year plus £3300 into your pension from company?
That would mean your company is paying in 30% pension. Not in UK.

£130k based on 15% contribution which is the most I have heard of in UK is around £1700.

£130k gives £6400 take home plus £1700 say £8kish.

Unless you mean you are getting £6k but adding more of your salary into your pension to reduce tax hit on £100-£120k tax bracket?

Even still from my calculations you on slightly more that EK FO but less that EK Captain.

EK FO is 42k (£9k) AEDish with added housing allowance.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Sorry those white monk figures don’t add up to me?

You getting around £130k a year plus £3300 into your pension from company?
That would mean your company is paying in 30% pension. Not in UK.

£130k based on 15% contribution which is the most I have heard of in UK is around £1700.

£130k gives £6400 take home plus £1700 say £8kish.

Unless you mean you are getting £6k but adding more of your salary into your pension to reduce tax hit on £100-£120k tax bracket?

Even still from my calculations you on slightly more that EK FO but less that EK Captain.

EK FO is 42k (£9k) AEDish with added housing allowance.

It's the last example, company contribution is 10% and I contribute 20% to try and stay below 100k but I'm probably going to have to up that to 25% to keep it under
​​​​

[AIMINGHIGH123]

It's the last example, company contribution is 10% and I contribute 20% to try and stay below 100k but I'm probably going to have to up that to 25% to keep it under
​​​​

Ok wise move. Unless you need the disposable for something else it saves some of the hammering from HMRC.

From a financial point of you just looking at those sums staying put looks better.

[GA F15]

I’m in a very similar situation to you Whitemonk, and have been having the same thoughts for a few years.
The take home salary for a new EK FO is approx £6.5k pm, plus an accommodation allowance of £2.5k pm, so considerably more than we are currently receiving, but this is inflated by the current £/$ exchange rate.

[Emma Royds]

My two dirhams worth but I think (777 at least) that the disillusionment of a stagnant quality of life from a rostering perspective, will overtake any woes of no pay rise, should that be the case. Whilst the bidding system is far from perfect, getting days off when you wanted them prior to the pandemic wasn't the gargantuan task that it is now.

COVID forced us all to live on less cash for a period of time and isolated us from family back home for many months. As has been said already, it realigned what is important in life for many. Should the company fail to offer anything, I suspect it may turn some to evaluate their future with EK.

[My Rifle and I]

but this is inflated by the current £/$ exchange rate.

The Pound started to decline against the AED (pegged to the USD) on the 24th July 2014 and shows no sign of returning. It took another hit with Brexit, 20th June 2016, and again with C19, 15th March 2020.

It's basically a 25% pay rise for the Brits. Now would be the time to move, perhaps.

[BigGeordie]

It is only a 25% pay rise for the Brits who send all their money home. Most will still have significant expenses in AED. The company has come up with this line before, many years ago -"Although you haven't been given a pay rise this year, you have had one really because the dollar has strengthened." It was rubbish then and is rubbish now.

[Mango]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/emirates-start-paying-back-dubai-4b-lifeline-84617909

The above article should squash any excitement about any possible wage increase or bonus. The timing of the article is also poignant.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/emirates-start-paying-back-dubai-4b-lifeline-84617909

The above article should squash any excitement about any possible wage increase or bonus. The timing of the article is also poignant.

The article shows clearly the importance of things - employees are not on the list.
15bAED bailout and they did not have a single fill left to protect jobs.
The exit of a pilot plus rehiring one as replacement costed an average of 6 monthly basic salaries. With just a little effort to spare some of the 15b all pilot jobs would have been protected and today as travel get stronger 1000 pilots would be available ready to fly again. But no, STC and HH had only one concern - “how does it look on the paper”.
My question what are you expecting from these managers.
As usual HH went first to the press instead to the atrium, which always meant there will little to nothing for the employees. If you look back the last decade, when there was a big presentation in the atrium in HQ, than employees got a share of the success.


good luck with this outfit

[DuneMentat]

"Pay Review has been scheduled for July and a number of additional improvements will be introduced in the coming months for the majority of employees".

Wouldn't hold my breath for any significant improvements..

[Emma Royds]

An extra SRC? :E

[vennnz]

I was researching working conditions en EK and that is the only thing stopping me from submitting an application, i currently fly 77 en taiwan and was thinking about moving to dubai, it's al fancy and a great lifestyle there when your not flying, but i dont think even with a pay increase it would be worth it from the information i have rn. Great airline, but i will probably wait and see if they improve not the salary rest time and if the add a commuting or semi commuting contract like 20 on 10 off would make up for the conditions.

[3cy3D]

Any airbus guys who got joining date?

[Aussie380hottie]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.

[Going the Extra Mile]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.


I trust your above post is an attempt to garner a response regarding the way this company treats its employees, so for the benefit of those who might not understand your sarcasm, let me enlighten them. If, on the other hand, your post is genuine, then I am happy that you are back where you belong.

For those who came in with previous experience expecting a quick command, I’d say they’d be pretty naive to still be expecting that now. If anybody is still in doubt as to Emirates management’s ethics then I can only assume that they have been living in a cave since before COVID was first reported. The only position you hold with that company is the one you wake up with today. It might change tomorrow - you might get upgraded, you might even get downgraded if you are a skipper in the wrong place at the wrong time and there needs to be some face saving, or you might even be relieved of your services altogether. To “expect” anything beyond this - certainly the expectation of a to a quick command due to a promise - would be to demonstrate a lack of understanding of how this company manages and treats its employees.

Emirates have demonstrated time and time again by their actions that your level of experience does not require any recognition from them - you are but a bum on a seat to fly one of their aircraft . Indeed, one could surmise that how one is treated is inversely related to your years of experience. Many experienced men (and women) were let go by the airline, indeed some of the first to go during COVID were the over 60’s and those with 20+ years of experience. If anybody thinks or feels that they are owed anything by this company due to their experience (regardless of whether that experience was gained inside or outside of the company) then I respectfully suggest taking a reality check.

From my impressions of previous pay reviews, the company does not base this on your input to achieving their goals - it will simply be an amount (possibly zero, possibly not) that the company feels it can pay whilst retaining enough pilots to operate the aircraft. If one has thoughts about it recognising a delayed command upgrade then again, I respectfully suggest anybody with those thoughts to take a reality check. Indeed, you might even get a 3% step increase which is called a pay rise, along with a free ticket.

”Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house” … now, for anybody without the ability to grasp sarcasm, perhaps this should be expanded upon. Some of “the best” have been lucky enough (and smart enough) to not have had to return to Emirates. I’m not sure I’d be so arrogant to group myself with “the best” but I am one of many who have chosen not to return. There are those who have found alternative employment which has brought into contrast just how tired they felt at Emirates, just how little quality time they got to spend with their families, just how suffocating they felt the management culture was (think getting time off to attend weddings and funerals), just how difficult it was to get a day off they wanted, just how threatening they felt the company communications were, just how worrying it could be to not know if your family medical bills would be honoured by the “company insurance” - so again, for anybody who has difficulties grasping the nuances of sarcasm, let’s just say that “the best” might have returned, but some of the smartest haven’t.

The airline will, in my opinion, always be what it is, a company with a third world management culture trying to masquerade as a first rate company. After all, the company is very good at PR, so masquerading as something that it actually is not probably comes quite easily. Once one has the benefit of working elsewhere AFTER Emirates, then this becomes very clear (atleast I can say it has in my experience).

The “best” may we’ll have returned to Emirates - the above post is certainly a prescient demonstration that they are back where they belong. Some of the smartest have chosen not to.


Good luck to all - especially those still out of work!

[aviatorLeo]

I trust your above post is an attempt to garner a response regarding the way this company treats its employees, so for the benefit of those who might not understand your sarcasm, let me enlighten them. If, on the other hand, your post is genuine, then I am happy that you are back where you belong.

For those who came in with previous experience expecting a quick command, I’d say they’d be pretty naive to still be expecting that now. If anybody is still in doubt as to Emirates management’s ethics then I can only assume that they have been living in a cave since before COVID was first reported. The only position you hold with that company is the one you wake up with today. It might change tomorrow - you might get upgraded, you might even get downgraded if you are a skipper in the wrong place at the wrong time and there needs to be some face saving, or you might even be relieved of your services altogether. To “expect” anything beyond this - certainly the expectation of a to a quick command due to a promise - would be to demonstrate a lack of understanding of how this company manages and treats its employees.

Emirates have demonstrated time and time again by their actions that your level of experience does not require any recognition from them - you are but a bum on a seat to fly one of their aircraft . Indeed, one could surmise that how one is treated is inversely related to your years of experience. Many experienced men (and women) were let go by the airline, indeed some of the first to go during COVID were the over 60’s and those with 20+ years of experience. If anybody thinks or feels that they are owed anything by this company due to their experience (regardless of whether that experience was gained inside or outside of the company) then I respectfully suggest taking a reality check.

From my impressions of previous pay reviews, the company does not base this on your input to achieving their goals - it will simply be an amount (possibly zero, possibly not) that the company feels it can pay whilst retaining enough pilots to operate the aircraft. If one has thoughts about it recognising a delayed command upgrade then again, I respectfully suggest anybody with those thoughts to take a reality check. Indeed, you might even get a 3% step increase which is called a pay rise, along with a free ticket.

”Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house” … now, for anybody without the ability to grasp sarcasm, perhaps this should be expanded upon. Some of “the best” have been lucky enough (and smart enough) to not have had to return to Emirates. I’m not sure I’d be so arrogant to group myself with “the best” but I am one of many who have chosen not to return. There are those who have found alternative employment which has brought into contrast just how tired they felt at Emirates, just how little quality time they got to spend with their families, just how suffocating they felt the management culture was (think getting time off to attend weddings and funerals), just how difficult it was to get a day off they wanted, just how threatening they felt the company communications were, just how worrying it could be to not know if your family medical bills would be honoured by the “company insurance” - so again, for anybody who has difficulties grasping the nuances of sarcasm, let’s just say that “the best” might have returned, but some of the smartest haven’t.

The airline will, in my opinion, always be what it is, a company with a third world management culture trying to masquerade as a first rate company. After all, the company is very good at PR, so masquerading as something that it actually is not probably comes quite easily. Once one has the benefit of working elsewhere AFTER Emirates, then this becomes very clear (atleast I can say it has in my experience).

The “best” may we’ll have returned to Emirates - the above post is certainly a prescient demonstration that they are back where they belong. Some of the smartest have chosen not to.


Good luck to all - especially those still out of work!
That's true.. If the company is as ****ty as the disgruntled employees here claim it to be, then the best would have left for greener pastures already.

[Giuff]

I trust your above post is an attempt to garner a response regarding the way this company treats its employees, so for the benefit of those who might not understand your sarcasm, let me enlighten them. If, on the other hand, your post is genuine, then I am happy that you are back where you belong.

For those who came in with previous experience expecting a quick command, I’d say they’d be pretty naive to still be expecting that now. If anybody is still in doubt as to Emirates management’s ethics then I can only assume that they have been living in a cave since before COVID was first reported. The only position you hold with that company is the one you wake up with today. It might change tomorrow - you might get upgraded, you might even get downgraded if you are a skipper in the wrong place at the wrong time and there needs to be some face saving, or you might even be relieved of your services altogether. To “expect” anything beyond this - certainly the expectation of a to a quick command due to a promise - would be to demonstrate a lack of understanding of how this company manages and treats its employees.

Emirates have demonstrated time and time again by their actions that your level of experience does not require any recognition from them - you are but a bum on a seat to fly one of their aircraft . Indeed, one could surmise that how one is treated is inversely related to your years of experience. Many experienced men (and women) were let go by the airline, indeed some of the first to go during COVID were the over 60’s and those with 20+ years of experience. If anybody thinks or feels that they are owed anything by this company due to their experience (regardless of whether that experience was gained inside or outside of the company) then I respectfully suggest taking a reality check.

From my impressions of previous pay reviews, the company does not base this on your input to achieving their goals - it will simply be an amount (possibly zero, possibly not) that the company feels it can pay whilst retaining enough pilots to operate the aircraft. If one has thoughts about it recognising a delayed command upgrade then again, I respectfully suggest anybody with those thoughts to take a reality check. Indeed, you might even get a 3% step increase which is called a pay rise, along with a free ticket.

”Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house” … now, for anybody without the ability to grasp sarcasm, perhaps this should be expanded upon. Some of “the best” have been lucky enough (and smart enough) to not have had to return to Emirates. I’m not sure I’d be so arrogant to group myself with “the best” but I am one of many who have chosen not to return. There are those who have found alternative employment which has brought into contrast just how tired they felt at Emirates, just how little quality time they got to spend with their families, just how suffocating they felt the management culture was (think getting time off to attend weddings and funerals), just how difficult it was to get a day off they wanted, just how threatening they felt the company communications were, just how worrying it could be to not know if your family medical bills would be honoured by the “company insurance” - so again, for anybody who has difficulties grasping the nuances of sarcasm, let’s just say that “the best” might have returned, but some of the smartest haven’t.

The airline will, in my opinion, always be what it is, a company with a third world management culture trying to masquerade as a first rate company. After all, the company is very good at PR, so masquerading as something that it actually is not probably comes quite easily. Once one has the benefit of working elsewhere AFTER Emirates, then this becomes very clear (atleast I can say it has in my experience).

The “best” may we’ll have returned to Emirates - the above post is certainly a prescient demonstration that they are back where they belong. Some of the smartest have chosen not to.


Good luck to all - especially those still out of work!

Hands up mate 👍🏻

[SOPS]

I trust your above post is an attempt to garner a response regarding the way this company treats its employees, so for the benefit of those who might not understand your sarcasm, let me enlighten them. If, on the other hand, your post is genuine, then I am happy that you are back where you belong.

For those who came in with previous experience expecting a quick command, I’d say they’d be pretty naive to still be expecting that now. If anybody is still in doubt as to Emirates management’s ethics then I can only assume that they have been living in a cave since before COVID was first reported. The only position you hold with that company is the one you wake up with today. It might change tomorrow - you might get upgraded, you might even get downgraded if you are a skipper in the wrong place at the wrong time and there needs to be some face saving, or you might even be relieved of your services altogether. To “expect” anything beyond this - certainly the expectation of a to a quick command due to a promise - would be to demonstrate a lack of understanding of how this company manages and treats its employees.

Emirates have demonstrated time and time again by their actions that your level of experience does not require any recognition from them - you are but a bum on a seat to fly one of their aircraft . Indeed, one could surmise that how one is treated is inversely related to your years of experience. Many experienced men (and women) were let go by the airline, indeed some of the first to go during COVID were the over 60’s and those with 20+ years of experience. If anybody thinks or feels that they are owed anything by this company due to their experience (regardless of whether that experience was gained inside or outside of the company) then I respectfully suggest taking a reality check.

From my impressions of previous pay reviews, the company does not base this on your input to achieving their goals - it will simply be an amount (possibly zero, possibly not) that the company feels it can pay whilst retaining enough pilots to operate the aircraft. If one has thoughts about it recognising a delayed command upgrade then again, I respectfully suggest anybody with those thoughts to take a reality check. Indeed, you might even get a 3% step increase which is called a pay rise, along with a free ticket.

”Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house” … now, for anybody without the ability to grasp sarcasm, perhaps this should be expanded upon. Some of “the best” have been lucky enough (and smart enough) to not have had to return to Emirates. I’m not sure I’d be so arrogant to group myself with “the best” but I am one of many who have chosen not to return. There are those who have found alternative employment which has brought into contrast just how tired they felt at Emirates, just how little quality time they got to spend with their families, just how suffocating they felt the management culture was (think getting time off to attend weddings and funerals), just how difficult it was to get a day off they wanted, just how threatening they felt the company communications were, just how worrying it could be to not know if your family medical bills would be honoured by the “company insurance” - so again, for anybody who has difficulties grasping the nuances of sarcasm, let’s just say that “the best” might have returned, but some of the smartest haven’t.

The airline will, in my opinion, always be what it is, a company with a third world management culture trying to masquerade as a first rate company. After all, the company is very good at PR, so masquerading as something that it actually is not probably comes quite easily. Once one has the benefit of working elsewhere AFTER Emirates, then this becomes very clear (atleast I can say it has in my experience).

The “best” may we’ll have returned to Emirates - the above post is certainly a prescient demonstration that they are back where they belong. Some of the smartest have chosen not to.


Good luck to all - especially those still out of work!

Excellent post. For the record .. my new employer and my UNION.. just did a pay review.. which resulted in a $10000 AUD a year pay rise with a 8 month back date . This pay rise is on base pay.. with penalty rates.. it’s a lot more.

And I’m home every night.. with no jet lag.

[Fired600]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.


What a disgustingly naive, self centred, egotistical point of view.

GoingTheExtraMile. ….. spot on :)

[SOPS]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.

You need to learn to spell. And you need to learn how things work at EK. And never believe your are “the best”. You are as good as your last sector in EK… and that’s a fact.

[felixthecat]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.

But significantly less experienced than the Captains who were let go that you want to take the place of.

what an AHole….

[flyTheBigFatLady]

What about those of us who came in with experience and expecting quick command? the situation has changed four now Covid is over and everything has returned to normal while glad to be back feel we should have our previous command expectations met as promised. I’m significantly more experienced than some of the other FOs who remain ahead just because they returned earlier.
The pay review should acknowledge this. Emirates have brought back the best and cleaned out house. Now let’s see them value the ones they have brought back.


As much as you think you deserve more than other FOs, I can tell EK has also let a lot of FOs with more experience than you have, just because u had a short haul command, doesn’t make you any better.

beside of that EK should have simply respected the seniority list to bring people back to which position or in respect to your career. But they don’t, won’t just because they can and don’t care about the individual

thankfully that I don’t need this outfit of banana republic managers

[5star]

As much as you think you deserve more than other FOs, I can tell EK has also let a lot of FOs with more experience than you have, just because u had a short haul command, doesn’t make you any better.

beside of that EK should have simply respected the seniority list to bring people back to which position or in respect to your career. But they don’t, won’t just because they can and don’t care about the individual

thankfully that I don’t need this outfit of banana republic managers

+1.
I make more now than I ever made at EK, and I don't have to deal with some of those aholes in the company both in the flightdeck (as demonstrated by the previous post higher up) and in fleet.

Best of luck to the many good guys who are still looking for a new job...
​​​​​​
​​​​​​

[AIMINGHIGH123]

+1.
I make more now than I ever made at EK, and I don't have to deal with some of those aholes in the company both in the flightdeck (as demonstrated by the previous post higher up) and in fleet.

Best of luck to the many good guys who are still looking for a new job...
​​​​​​
​​​​​​

Really?

Definitely not EU land.

What company pays FO €150k? Captain €220k? Or in £ same amounts to even get close to EK salary?

[SOPS]

Really?

Definitely not EU land.

What company pays FO €150k? Captain €220k? Or in £ same amounts to even get close to EK salary?

Im sorry. 150000 euros is close to 600000 AED. EK are not paying FOs that much.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Im sorry. 150000 euros is close to 600000 AED. EK are not paying FOs that much.

Its 42k AED with housing allowancE.

Which is £9k after tax €10kish after tax depending what EU country.

To get £8k after tax you need £180k minimum.

If you going to compare salary you have to make it more realistic.

Yes with company accommodation means you get 30k AED. Unless you’re living in a tent and living off the land in UK/EU that’s not comparable.
Travel to and from work? That would be €300 minimum a month from a salary as an example.

Edit to add: if you get something say like the above provided by company you would have to add your cost plus tax rate you pay to get the true cost.
UK example: £300 in fuel means at 45% tax rate you have to earn £435 to cover that. Think that’s correct maths, you get what I mean though.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

@go the extra mile

to round up your sarcasm:

how many airlines featuring the best of the best and only kept the best has such a overwhelming record
Since 2016:

i burned air frame
near miss with a mountain
3 almost CFIT
1 one almost fatal runway incursion

and that’s only what it made to the public.

Just asking ?

[Murrenfan]

@the BigFatLady

You’re an unethical a$$h0le.

[5star]

Aiming. I know what i get in my bank account, ok! Working same amount as in the desert, but night and day difference as to how I’m treated…
Did I mention I did have housing in EK? Did I mention that I’m now subscribed to an official state pension system….
Nothing is perfect, but it works 100pct better (for me).
Schooling could have made a difference, but not in my case any more.

Left behind some great friends but would not return for a 1M dollars after my ‘fair’ treatment during covid.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Aiming. I know what i get in my bank account, ok! Working same amount as in the desert, but night and day difference as to how I’m treated…
Did I mention I did have housing in EK? Did I mention that I’m now subscribed to an official state pension system….
Nothing is perfect, but it works 100pct better (for me).
Schooling could have made a difference, but not in my case any more.

Left behind some great friends but would not return for a 1M dollars after my ‘fair’ treatment during covid.

Hey I was just being curious. I put it as a question but also info as that is how it has been explained to me by my accountant. When moving to a different country the financials have to be fully looked at fully. Obviously not the be all and end all.

The main thing is you being happy. When you are retired you look back and say ok gave it a go and didn’t work out rather than wonder what that would have been like?

I’m pretty chilled out but recently being from the UK I have had enough of the whole country. My cousin recently came back for a year from Australia to see family friends etc. She said her self everyone she has caught up with and the general vibe from everyone is we are all so stressed and depressed. Next 5 years are going to be brutal here financially. She can’t wait to get back.

Sorry slight thread drift.

[trimotor]

Going to a big ME airline is something that should only be done with a solid game plan in mind - set a target, be it, time, $$ or whatever. Reassess it from time to time, but stick to it.

Having been at one for 20+ years and taken what I could from it, it was clearly time to leave (within the last 6 months). It certainly wasn't the airline I joined in 2000, with less opportunity, much lower remuneration (in real terms) and a MUCH higher BS quotient. I could only recommend going to EK/QR/Etihad with a plan, and then only if it was a step up and left you with experience you could market...but a job for life they no longer are.

TM

[hans brinker]

Mercifully, unions are banned in the UAE. Without threats and intimidation to unnaturally disguise an employee's value, what is revealed is the market value of any employee.

Whatever Emirates is offering, it is the current value of a widebody pilot based in Dubai.

You can't argue with market economics.

Oh, that is funny. FO SWA 737 in the US (not me, but I have seen the W2). Work around 15 days a month, makes $300K + 15% direct contribution. Never a threat of getting fired for calling sick or not following SOP, not living in a sandbox, being able to have life. Yeah, unions are evil.

[BANANASBANANAS]

There are always at least two sides to every story.

Even pre Covid, Emirates had enough negative press to deter many people so it is a little disingenuous to accept the job offer and then complain when you find out that you really should have listened to all the warning signs. On the other hand, the accelerating manner in which terms and conditions appear to have continued to deteriorate is, perhaps, a genuine reason for complaint.

I joined as a DEC and under no illusions. It was exactly what I expected. I had previous wide body check/training/management experience but I never felt incentivised or motivated enough to apply for either a training or management position at Emirates and I don't regret that decision at all. I believe that I would always have been a very square peg in a very round hole. I enjoyed all my line flying (despite the fatigue) for 8 years, I flew with some great people, I had a decent social life whilst reminding myself that I was at EK primarily to save for retirement and I achieved all my objectives - financial, personal and professional with a bit to spare.

When I was made Covid-19 redundant I was, of course, disappointed but not surprised and ready for it. I have subsequently had offers to rejoin the industry but a combination of degraded health and decent financial security (I think) means that this is not likely to be possible. Nor is it, now, particularly attractive to me.

Did I enjoy working for Emirates? Not really, but I didn't expect to. I enjoyed life with the people I worked with, not so much with the people I worked for. It would be fair to say that Emirates just about 'met my expectations' - which were very low.

Am I bitter about being made redundant? No, not at all. That is all part and parcel of expat life.

Would I go back now if I was to be offered my old job back? No way. The entire industry has changed and HR departments around the world will be rubbing their hands with glee at how they feel that they can continue to exert ever increasing downward pressure on terms and conditions - in all countries without strong unions and strong labor laws.

Good luck to those still at, or who have recently joined, EK. Also to those who lost their jobs and who are still searching for employment. The world has changed and aviation (as a career choice) could well be adversely affected - permanently.

[Shazeem]

If you look at the package they offer on their careersite, it is not bad if you compare it with other airlines. This is mainly due to the taxfree salary (free laundry!). People tend to go to EK for the money, to fly a big shiny jet and become a skipper at age 33 or 35. Moreover you can put some nice pictures on Instagram, and live the "dream" as a single in Dubai. No responsibilities.

Then you start a family and their entire life depends on your job and moreover on some a**hole in training or fleet who can and will break you ik they feel like it. RRF or RRT and the pressure is on with high risks. Or some report from crew will get you a visit to HQ.
Can you take such risks with your family? I guess everyone does their own risk assessment. Manage the risks!
Have a backupplan, keep your head low, do your job by the books..rest well on your days off and on layovers. Try not to get caught up in the fear culture which is inevitable because you will see multiple examples around you of friends/ colleagues who will get fired. Have to say this is true for some other airlines as well. If you are local, EK is perfect because the above mentioned does not apply. You are a guest, an expat, a mercenary with a 24hr contract.

Protection of employees is a commodity unfortunately.
All the best!






​​​

[Pif Paf]

Distinct lack of anything extra in this months pay. In the past any bonus (or should
i say in this case “repayment” of money taken from us) has been paid at end of May.

Pay review unlikely to be outstanding!

As a student report might say “EK sets low standards and then struggles to attain them”

As long as people queue up to join nothing will change!

[Kennytheking]

As long as people queue up to join nothing will change!

As long as people sit and bitch on pprune instead of voting with their feet, nothing will change.

[Pif Paf]

As long as people sit and bitch on pprune instead of voting with their feet, nothing will change.
there is a steady stream of people leaving for pastures new.they still class it as below the percentage that’s concerning

[Emma Royds]

I suspect it will always be below the percentage point that would concern them. :E

[Pif Paf]

So we will get a pay rise! But, before we all get too excited, wait and take a deep breath. Its such a huge secret they also say they can’t tell us how much it will be!! We have to wait until July pay to see!!!!!!

I’m confused. Why tell us we will get a pay rise, but not how much?

So do they really not know themselves yet? Surely not!!!!
Are they still calculating the minimum they can get away with after gauging the reaction to the pay rise announcement? Possibly!!
Do they think 2 months waiting is going to improve morale? Definitely not!

Yes I’ll get replies told by those not at EK and probably from a few of those company indoctrinated staff telling me that I’m lucky to get a pay rise and I should be grateful.
Maybe, but at the same time I will point out that whatever increase we get will not be what we deserve! Whatever increase we get will not be what we expect and whatever increase we get will be a disappointment and rather underwhelming!

[Kennytheking]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/914x638/undefined_imgur_bd5bdc0006600c0b7b0f9a2453bdd93af44b2e7a.jpg

[Pixy]

A Realistic Look

The leading thread on the Middle East Forum is Emirates Application 2022. Many keen applicants seeking greener pastures looking for better salaries or career opportunities. Good luck to them all.

No doubt they have all availed themselves of information regarding salaries, allowances, hours, perks, etc. The debates are already running on which airlines pay what and the effects of taxes on take-home pay.

However, there are many aspects that are not covered by this clinical look and are not easily divined from number crunching. One has to look deeper into the systems at play and how they translate into reality. If planning on staying any length of time then trends become important to consider.

Emirates employees have twice this year been promised a salary review in July. We are now in July and apparently working for this new salary but nothing has been revealed as yet. We wait in anxious anticipation. There are various aspects that could be increased which would be welcome. What other changes may be in store are not yet revealed. Changes to how you actually earn the money can be easily revised and have been over the years, mostly resulting in an increase in work for the same pay. This is done primarily with adjustments to the credit and duty hours and manipulation of the Productivity Pay.

The most highly utilized system is to compress rosters in any month where there is leave taken. This effectively claws back the hours without the pilot exceeding the productivity threshold because it is not prorated when leave is taken. For example, in a 30-day month, the Productivity threshold is 85 hours. Anything over this earns good money. However, if a pilot takes, say, 7 days leave within that month, the system will try and maximize hours up to 85 within the 23 remaining days as, effectively, this is free productivity for the Company.

It is not hard to do in the remaining days. A combination of,say, a couple of ULR flights, and a couple of shorter European Flights will put the hours around 85. Bear in mind the pro-rated hours in the month would have been about 65 so the Company has gained 20 hours of Productivity for which it has not had to pay. You have effectively sacrificed those leave days for nothing gained. 20 productivity hours is worth AED 14000 for Captain and 9900 for an FO.

In an office environment, this would be analogous to an employee working over weekends because they took leave.

How effective this is, depends on the exact distribution of leave taken within the month but any pilot who has Leave will generally see a roster compressed to above the pro-rated amount. If the leave period rolls over 2 months then there are two consecutive opportunities for the company to make good. Most feel cheated. If the company actually assigns forced leave for a few days then this adds insult to injury.

This has roll-on effects within the Bidding and Leave systems. ULR flights will not be assigned to top bidders if they are used to maximize productivity by assigning these flights to lower bidders who took leave. The computer is not trying to satisfy bid requests. It is trying to maximise productivity at no cost.

The leave system is impacted because no sane person would take short periods of leave in a month several times a year. They would be likely to still work to the productivity threshold and the leave has effectively been sacrificed for no money. As a result, those who recognize this dynamic use the most optimum way to prevent this by taking the maximum allowable leave within the calendar month to avoid the rest of the month being compressed. If most are bidding for long periods in peak months, then the leave satisfaction is compromised as its harder to grant long periods of leave than short.

This is but a glimpse into the finer aspects that I would advise any prospective new joiner to consider. The reality of working hard on return from leave or before leave tends to dampen any benefit of the leave. Hence there is often underlying fatigue and resentment.

I have not touched on the number of tasks that are distributed that do not attract any credit or duty hours at all despite them being required for a host of reasons from the company. The internet has allowed much to be delegated to one's personal time. Perhaps someone else can list the many examples.

I mentioned trends with respect to remuneration. In a nutshell, the take-home pay has dropped in real terms for the past 2 decades. This is a feature with most airlines. It is well below inflationary increases.

World inflation often hits Dubai hard as so much is imported and transported. Arabian Business reports year-on-year inflation for April as 4.6% and it's only just starting to bite. Transport costs are up 28.8% and Food 8.6%. These costs have yet to filter through and are likely underestimates.

I have my doubts as to whether remuneration will increase much more than 5% though it is long overdue. Let’s see. Unless the package is raised around 10% you are likely worse off next year than now. After all, goods have to be transported all the way here from countries that are already approaching double-digit inflation.

The USD is riding high. But again this can change. I have seen the effect of a weak dollar in the UAE. If one has overseas commitments then consider this. There is Exchange Rate Protection but it's to a limit of 15% for 50% of salary only. There have been much bigger historical swings on the Dirham, almost to the point of debating unpegging from the USD.

There is a reasonable turnover of pilots here. Much experience has left despite the pandemic. Few have left because they simply wanted more money. Many left for lower salaries but sought what they perceived to be a more balanced and predictable treatment. Uncertainty on, leave, medical claims handling, loss of license surety, sickness policies, disciplinary in the event of honest errors, etc. made them seek pastures where they perceive better representation, transparency, and equitable treatment.

I asked a recently resigned TRE why he was taking a lower-paid job as an FO in the USA. The response: “It's how they make me feel”. One can’t argue that….

To all my friends leaving and all those joining, I wish you all the best.

[sluggums]

Wise words. The race to the bottom continues unabated. EK will never change unfortunately.

[nimrodjoe]

Wise words. The race to the bottom continues unabated. EK will never change unfortunately.

completely agree with this, can’t tell you how many clowns I fly with telling me “the grass isn’t always greener” I’m sure whatever they offer will be chicken feed.

[singularity2022]

Not long to wait, when do we get those payslips again?

[WB Driver]

Rumour has it that the education allowance and housing allowance will be returned to previous levels or maybe better, but in terms of basic salary increase it's anyone's guess....

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Rumour has it that the education allowance and housing allowance will be returned to previous levels or maybe better, but in terms of basic salary increase it's anyone's guess....
which properly will not cover the recent fuel price hike for daily transports to and from school

[Pixy]

Various email have been dispensed promising “a basic salary increase” and the potential of “allowance and benefit enhancements” at EK but we are well into July and we wait patiently to see what these increases may be. The importance of this particular salary review cannot be overstated.

The UAE Inflation rate in April was already 4.6% and climbing, with Transport up 28.8% and Food up 8.6%. The Government has already announced a social welfare program for Emiratis to apply for an “Inflation Allowance” from September. This, to my mind, indicates that they expect inflation to be high and remain so for some time. They are smart enough to prepare for this. Other countries are going to see the wrath of their populations and try to blame it on any convenient scapegoat, play the old game of media distraction, while political parties tout socialism to populations baying for communistic ideas.

Back here, I doubt any salary and benefit increases will aggregate to more than 5%. I hope I am wrong. However, much less than 10% will almost assure a continuing downward remuneration spiral, in real terms. Nothing new here, but I think the downward slope is going to be particularly steep and the reality of this has not really set in.

The majority of employees here were either not born or too young to remember the inflation of the late 70s and early 80s. It ran at over 10% for a few years. Right now the dawning inflation provokes exclamation indignation and frustration. However, what is coming is uncertainty, desperation, and finally despair. The reality just has not hit home yet as there have been 40 years of a relatively benign economic background and tame inflation for most, and they have not actually felt the effects of sustained rampant inflation with a rapidly lagging take-home packet.

Right now it is in the abstract. In two years it will be a painful reality. While the UAE, admirably, protects its citizens better than most Western Governments, there is no social security net here to dampen the effects for any ex-pat. Nor should there be. We can come and go as we please.

I look forward to any increase but, unless substantiative, it will bring no real relief. In a year’s time, we will all be peddling much harder to pay the bills while watching pensions and most asset classes depreciate rapidly in real terms. The future will look black and a career in aviation will seem a pointless endeavor for survival, let alone retirement.

Central Banks have had the printing presses running overtime for years and then with full afterburner for an overhyped pandemic. Most of this went to the already rich, through a myriad of mechanisms, mostly involving some form of corruption. Some got paid to the working class to do nothing while remaining “safe” at home. But now we are all about to pay for what is likely to prove the biggest economic blunder in history.

“By a continuing process of inflation, Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.” – John Maynard Keynes (Economist)

[White Knight]

Contract Adjustment Letters are out.

Looks like a piddly four percent rise! Looks like just a step up the ladder rather than an increase in Basic! That’s going to work well then🙄

[Pif Paf]

Step (3%) + 1%
increase housing allowance (which means nothing to all those forced back into company accommodation)

Totally underwhelmed!

[White Knight]

Step (3%) + 1%

That would be it…

A 1% rise when inflation is rampant in the UAE👎🏻

[nimrodjoe]

That would be it…

A 1% rise when inflation is rampant in the UAE👎🏻


Something you say a lot White Kite…. If you don’t like it leave !!!

[Pif Paf]

Makes sense now why they didn’t want to tell us in advance!!

So if pilots got 3% step +1% it will be Interesting to see if this is what everyone got or whether other grades / departments got anything different?

[5star]

To me, this is a clear sign they want people with seniority to leave and they want to attract new joiners by increasing living out allowance.
They will attract plenty…
What a slap in the face also to all the ones who were renting until last year and had to rejoin MH within short notice…. Pretty evil…

Another happy day in sandy LaLaland!

[White Knight]

Something you say a lot White Kite…. If you don’t like it leave !!!

I still like my job thanks joe… If and when the scales tip too far I’ll take my own advise!

[Pif Paf]

So the minuscule pay rise has come and gone and we are all notably underwhelmed!
By my reckoning I’m still owed 2 months salary by Emirates.
We got the “out of the blue” payment of 1 months salary in January which covered 2 months of the 6 months on half pay. However no explanation was given about the payment, why we were getting it or what it covered!
So EK have still not covered the other 4 months of half pay ie 2 months salary.
are they hoping we will forget?
Is it legal under UAE law to just pay someone half salary and not pay it back later when you have the funds available?

it speaks volumes about Emirates and how Emirates employees are valued when paying back reduced salaries has such a low priority?

[PPRuNeUser0216]

So the minuscule pay rise has come and gone and we are all notably underwhelmed!
By my reckoning I’m still owed 2 months salary by Emirates.
We got the “out of the blue” payment of 1 months salary in January which covered 2 months of the 6 months on half pay. However no explanation was given about the payment, why we were getting it or what it covered!
So EK have still not covered the other 4 months of half pay ie 2 months salary.
are they hoping we will forget?
Is it legal under UAE law to just pay someone half salary and not pay it back later when you have the funds available?

it speaks volumes about Emirates and how Emirates employees are valued when paying back reduced salaries has such a low priority?

You are always just a minion here
Doesn't matter how many bars or stars you have on your epaulettes , you are a foreign migrant worker and will do as you are told!

[Shazeem]

You are always just a minion here
Doesn't matter how many bars or stars you have on your epaulettes , you are a foreign migrant worker and will do as you are told!

You are correct. Halas, what to do? More patience needed.
However it seems at the sistercompany across the same stakeholder handled it quite nicely. Qmk.

[iFunFlyer]

Got 2 questions for someone at EK now:

1) what’s the law now regarding living with your girlfriend? If I took company accommodation, would it be an issue with front door security etc?

2) with the new accommodation allowance of 15500 AED, can a guy with his girlfriend get something decent in the Marina including bills etc for example and still have some left over?

Thanks :ok:

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Got 2 questions for someone at EK now:

1) what’s the law now regarding living with your girlfriend? If I took company accommodation, would it be an issue with front door security etc?

2) with the new accommodation allowance of 15500 AED, can a guy with his girlfriend get something decent in the Marina including bills etc for example and still have some left over?

Thanks :ok:

look for accom in propertyfinder to get prices
look for RERA
rent index calculator
also for the current laws regarding rent and ownership
Don get trapped by the prices you see to get a place as the rent index will tell what the price will be for the following year.
for e.g. the price is 100k Aed per year and the rent index says your 50k below the average index, your price hike to the following year will be min 20% increase. In other words the closer you are to the index in the first place the less the change will be in the following years and makes a more stable rent agreement.
there had been many cases where rent hike after the first year forced people the relocate after just one year.
landlords often set a very low price in the beginning to fill the apartment and increase in the following year to get closer to the index.
comparing offered price with the index is essential to predict future changes.
that’s why it’s important to have look into the current laws on the RERA website

[McToryMug]

I have been told that pay with never keep up with inflation yet inflation is set to go nuts.

[nimrodjoe]

I have been told that pay with never keep up with inflation yet inflation is set to go nuts.

Who has told you that ?

[Kennytheking]

I have been told that pay with never keep up with inflation yet inflation is set to go nuts.

To be fair - that problem is not specific to Emirates

[PPRuNeUser0216]

I have been told that pay with never keep up with inflation yet inflation is set to go nuts.

Pilots are leaving Emirates in droves, many not paying their 'rejoining bond' and some without giving the 3 months notice.

[McToryMug]

Pilots are leaving Emirates in droves, many not paying their 'rejoining bond' and some without giving the 3 months notice.

I wonder why..............

Interesting article from an EK pilot who spoke out in BUSINESS INSIDER recently.

[Fairey Seal]

Pilots are leaving Emirates in droves, many not paying their 'rejoining bond' and some without giving the 3 months notice.

Totally untrue. Who are these pilots that are leaving in droves? Where are they going? Ryanair I suppose.

[nimrodjoe]

To be fair - that problem is not specific to Emirates

Kenny banging the company drum still I see !

[nimrodjoe]

Totally untrue. Who are these pilots that are leaving in droves? Where are they going? Ryanair I suppose.

South Africa and Australia , lots of great opportunities for pilots there

[City of Gold]

South Africa and Australia , lots of great opportunities for pilots there

South Africa? Yes, excellent opportunities. I hear its very safe and the ZAR is doing really well.

[McToryMug]

DEC assessments will start in the next few weeks, mass exodus of pilots meanwhile recruitment team going around the world scamming people to join and worth until they literally become worthless due health concerns. Glad people are voting with their feet and leaving Emirates

[WrldWide]

South Africa and Australia , lots of great opportunities for pilots there
Wtf are you talking about? What opportunities in ZA? If this was sarcasm, disregard.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Kenny banging the company drum still I see !

He has a point though. Inflation set to hit 15% in the UK. BA? They had a pay cut. Virgin same. RYR still not back to pre covid. Jet2 the only one who gave 8%. Look at the other threads on this site. Many unhappy guys/gals everywhere.

Recession from October 2022-end of 2023. Certainly in the UK it’s going to be very very painful. Anyone not on a fixed rate mortgage for at least the next 2 years it could be game over. Utilities are about to go up 75% again. Not just here either. Mate in Australia has been there 12 years and never seen anything like it. Every week prices going up on basic goods. Biggest squeeze for a generation coming left right and centre.

I know some of you are not liking EK or Dubai but man the UK is brutal right now. Nearly £2 a litre on fuel. £150 a month on gas and electric living in a flat. If you’re in a 3/4 bed house you looking at £300 a month. EU land not much better from guys/gals at other bases.

[nimrodjoe]

Wtf are you talking about? What opportunities in ZA? If this was sarcasm, disregard.

I think he was being sarcastic but your don’t understand sarcasm because you are Australian and you take everything really seriously.

When can those of us forced to live amongst those miserable trainers we have had in the sim expect to be allowed to break free in to the rest of the world ??

[PPRuNeUser0216]

He has a point though. Inflation set to hit 15% in the UK. BA? They had a pay cut. Virgin same. RYR still not back to pre covid. Jet2 the only one who gave 8%. Look at the other threads on this site. Many unhappy guys/gals everywhere.

Recession from October 2022-end of 2023. Certainly in the UK it’s going to be very very painful. Anyone not on a fixed rate mortgage for at least the next 2 years it could be game over. Utilities are about to go up 75% again. Not just here either. Mate in Australia has been there 12 years and never seen anything like it. Every week prices going up on basic goods. Biggest squeeze for a generation coming left right and centre.

I know some of you are not liking EK or Dubai but man the UK is brutal right now. Nearly £2 a litre on fuel. £150 a month on gas and electric living in a flat. If you’re in a 3/4 bed house you looking at £300 a month. EU land not much better from guys/gals at other bases.

Here he is again, Dr. Doom

I personally just don't like being told by children like you that 'Emirates is alright because everywhere else is really bad too' when you haven't flown a sector past Istanbul and have certainly never done 1000 plus hours a year long haul.

[City of Gold]

You are always just a minion here
Doesn't matter how many bars or stars you have on your epaulettes , you are a foreign migrant worker and will do as you are told!

Seems that a lot of the trainers don’t know this and think they are indispensable.
You are exactly as Mike says.
Dubai can never ever be your home.

[Kennytheking]

Here he is again, Dr. Doom

I personally just don't like being told by children like you that 'Emirates is alright because everywhere else is really bad too' when you haven't flown a sector past Istanbul and have certainly never done 1000 plus hours a year long haul.

Ok, then I'll tell it to you - and I have flown a sector past Istanbul and I have done close to 1 000 hours a year long haul.

[nimrodjoe]

Ok, then I'll tell it to you - and I have flown a sector past Istanbul and I have done close to 1 000 hours a year long haul.


The floor is yours Kenny…

[paule737]

Ok, then I'll tell it to you - and I have flown a sector past Istanbul and I have done close to 1 000 hours a year long haul.

Kenny please fill us with your wisdom….

[PPRuNeUser0216]

What you got for us Kenny...

[nimrodjoe]

this’ll be good

[Rhodes13]

He has a point though. Inflation set to hit 15% in the UK. BA? They had a pay cut. Virgin same. RYR still not back to pre covid. Jet2 the only one who gave 8%. Look at the other threads on this site. Many unhappy guys/gals everywhere.

Recession from October 2022-end of 2023. Certainly in the UK it’s going to be very very painful. Anyone not on a fixed rate mortgage for at least the next 2 years it could be game over. Utilities are about to go up 75% again. Not just here either. Mate in Australia has been there 12 years and never seen anything like it. Every week prices going up on basic goods. Biggest squeeze for a generation coming left right and centre.

I know some of you are not liking EK or Dubai but man the UK is brutal right now. Nearly £2 a litre on fuel. £150 a month on gas and electric living in a flat. If you’re in a 3/4 bed house you looking at £300 a month. EU land not much better from guys/gals at other bases.

Pay cut at Virgin? News to the guys there then. Yes they had pay cuts during the COVID pandemic but they've just agreed a pay rise in the new pay deal and were back at full pay last year.
And inflation won't effect Dubai? A country that imports the vast bulk of its products?

[nimrodjoe]

He has a point though. Inflation set to hit 15% in the UK. BA? They had a pay cut. Virgin same. RYR still not back to pre covid. Jet2 the only one who gave 8%. Look at the other threads on this site. Many unhappy guys/gals everywhere.

Recession from October 2022-end of 2023. Certainly in the UK it’s going to be very very painful. Anyone not on a fixed rate mortgage for at least the next 2 years it could be game over. Utilities are about to go up 75% again. Not just here either. Mate in Australia has been there 12 years and never seen anything like it. Every week prices going up on basic goods. Biggest squeeze for a generation coming left right and centre.

I know some of you are not liking EK or Dubai but man the UK is brutal right now. Nearly £2 a litre on fuel. £150 a month on gas and electric living in a flat. If you’re in a 3/4 bed house you looking at £300 a month. EU land not much better from guys/gals at other bases.

Sounds like project fear. You talk about the economy in almost apocalyptic terms over the next 18 months.

It does surprise me then that you would wish to move to Dubai where your family’s long term financial security is in the hands of a couple of managers in ek. Please don’t assume that these people have any ethics or morality.

If you do choose that this is the right time to give up a uk contract under western law plus some Union representation for the rest of your career , then I wish you all the best.

Extra reading
please see 2008 recession in dubai
please see handling of Covid pandemic in emirates

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Pay cut at Virgin? News to the guys there then. Yes they had pay cuts during the COVID pandemic but they've just agreed a pay rise in the new pay deal and were back at full pay last year.
And inflation won't effect Dubai? A country that imports the vast bulk of its products?

Well I spoke to my mate who is back at Virgin now after being laid off and he said they had a pay cut with negotiations on going. This was couple months ago. Unless you talking about Virgin Australia? Think they had pay rise but don’t know anyone there.

Of course it will effect Dubai. It’s the whole world. I’m just stating facts and giving advice.
Wouldn’t you want to know rather than jumping back to the UK then finding out. Plus for the financial planning. Obviously UK license required as well. Just be prepared if moving to UK it’s not a bed of roses at present.
Jet2 probably the best. Unless you’re under 30 then BA.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Sounds like project fear. You talk about the economy in almost apocalyptic terms over the next 18 months.

It does surprise me then that you would wish to move to Dubai where your family’s long term financial security is in the hands of a couple of managers in ek. Please don’t assume that these people have any ethics or morality.

If you do choose that this is the right time to give up a uk contract under western law plus some Union representation for the rest of your career , then I wish you all the best.

Extra reading
please see 2008 recession in dubai
please see handling of Covid pandemic in emirates

It is looking very bad. Next 18 months going to be very tough. Honestly the financial charts my friend has sent me if rates going to 2-3% which they will do show a lot of pain in the housing sector.

Yes Dubai recession of 2008 was really bad. Again UK wasn’t a bed of roses. Don’t remember BA getting rid of anyone then but Virgin certainly did. I was working in the city at the time and saw hundreds of people made redundant, divorces, families lost houses plus some guys who just couldn’t cope.

[Rhodes13]

Well I spoke to my mate who is back at Virgin now after being laid off and he said they had a pay cut with negotiations on going. This was couple months ago. Unless you talking about Virgin Australia? Think they had pay rise but don’t know anyone there.

Of course it will effect Dubai. It’s the whole world. I’m just stating facts and giving advice.
Wouldn’t you want to know rather than jumping back to the UK then finding out. Plus for the financial planning. Obviously UK license required as well. Just be prepared if moving to UK it’s not a bed of roses at present.
Jet2 probably the best. Unless you’re under 30 then BA.

The problem is you come on here spouting half truths as though you know it all and pontificating about a place and a job that you know nothing about.. and I was talking about Virgin Atlantic. For a person that claims to know so much about airlines you don't seem to know the basics about what happened in your own backyard.

You then advocate moving to an airline and a country where you literally have next to no rights or recourse should you be wronged, whilst simultaneously saying that the sky is falling. Given how EK literally treated people less than a year and a half ago I really don't see what you're trying to achieve? If it is so good why haven't you moved there?

By the way having done EK for nearly a decade it wasn't all the bed of roses either that you seem to like to portray from your fleeting holiday visits to the place.

[nimrodjoe]

It is looking very bad. Next 18 months going to be very tough. Honestly the financial charts my friend has sent me if rates going to 2-3% which they will do show a lot of pain in the housing sector.

Yes Dubai recession of 2008 was really bad. Again UK wasn’t a bed of roses. Don’t remember BA getting rid of anyone then but Virgin certainly did. I was working in the city at the time and saw hundreds of people made redundant, divorces, families lost houses plus some guys who just couldn’t cope.

you sound like a child

[AIMINGHIGH123]

The problem is you come on here spouting half truths as though you know it all and pontificating about a place and a job that you know nothing about.. and I was talking about Virgin Atlantic. For a person that claims to know so much about airlines you don't seem to know the basics about what happened in your own backyard.

You then advocate moving to an airline and a country where you literally have next to no rights or recourse should you be wronged, whilst simultaneously saying that the sky is falling. Given how EK literally treated people less than a year and a half ago I really don't see what you're trying to achieve? If it is so good why haven't you moved there?

By the way having done EK for nearly a decade it wasn't all the bed of roses either that you seem to like to portray from your fleeting holiday visits to the place.

Ok well let’s spin this on it’s head. Why are you not at Virgin or BA?

Virgin are known to get rid of people when ever it gets a little sketchy. It’s not half truths about Virgin. I know what my mate said to me. If we were face to face I would just show you his messages. Everything about BA is 100% true. The pay cut they have had and Euroflyer deal that quite a few who were made redundant have gone back to at BA is paying a lot less than mainline. I have seen the pay scale. Go and look on other threads here or better ask people there.

I have said before I don’t live in Dubai have been there half a dozen times and going again later this year. We have many friends there not at EK some been there over 20 years now and a family member of ours has just moved there. We have equal number of close friends in Dubai as we do in London.

The grass isn’t always greener that statement works everywhere.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.

[Kennytheking]

Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.

No point argueing against the prune thicket. You will see that the moment they cannot refute your argument with facts they attack your qualifications to hold your opinion. That point passed several posts ago.

The shrinks propbably have a name for it but it boils down to the fact that if we both bang our fingers with a hammer, my pain will always be more than yours. No amount of "reason" is going to take my pain away.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Obviously at EK you have no Union protection. I never said you didn’t. I was a BALPA member before and they were pretty useless for us.
Look at what happened at BA and Virgin. If you were on the wrong fleet at BA ie 747 it was tough luck. Completely different to what they were told that seniority was/is king at BA. Not anymore.

Yes EK is more of a risk but COVID should have taught you nowhere is solid.

I lost my job and had 0 help from BALPA. 0 help from UK government.
Still got to pay gas/electric/council tax etc even if you’re not earning.

sorry to say your are talking about very different things

Dubai is and will be affected by inflation as hard as any other country. The major difference is Dxb is protecting their own not expats. According to khajlees times the fuel price is soaring high, that’s why emirates get a bonus pack offering a certain amount of free fuel. Not for expats, off course.
Just because a family member moved their and might run a business or is employed in a western companies brach means, that you can say it’s same working in an Emirati company. And that’s exactly what ek is, an Emirati company. Beside that EK apparently is above all employment laws when it comes to expats and you won’t find any lawyer even touching this company.
So your regular trips to Dxb and your family reference on a successful live mean nothing when comes to a EK employment as this is a complete different story.

yes i compare Europe majors to ek but only in regard to human and business ethics, where EU airlines would do the same as EK does, but EU has at least some laws and regulation on the employment side to keep the worst off and unions at least pretend to keep things in order. No doubt we can see that LCC try to do everything to undermine those employment rights where ever they can and large companies try to follow those foot prints by all means. At least in the western world is Chance to things changed, while in the ME there is no way for improvement until market dictates so.

each single person applying to ME airlines is support their arrogance to keep things as they are and is strengthening their desire to do what ever they want and getting away with it.
EK will only change if nobody wants to be there under the current conditions. The constant lowering of requirements shows clearly their way of adjusting to availability of employees.
If people would show their discomfort on putting the life on change or even risk to live the fake dream, only than EK will change. But that’s a thing never will happen as the Stockholm Syndrom to big shine jet will always succeed

[Rhodes13]

Ok well let’s spin this on it’s head. Why are you not at Virgin or BA?

Virgin are known to get rid of people when ever it gets a little sketchy. It’s not half truths about Virgin. I know what my mate said to me. If we were face to face I would just show you his messages. Everything about BA is 100% true. The pay cut they have had and Euroflyer deal that quite a few who were made redundant have gone back to at BA is paying a lot less than mainline. I have seen the pay scale. Go and look on other threads here or better ask people there.

I have said before I don’t live in Dubai have been there half a dozen times and going again later this year. We have many friends there not at EK some been there over 20 years now and a family member of ours has just moved there. We have equal number of close friends in Dubai as we do in London.

The grass isn’t always greener that statement works everywhere.

There you go again making assumptions. Did you not note the past tense of my statement that it wasn't a bed of roses?

I did leave EK and I am flying for one of the airlines you mentioned.

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm not really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Kenny the clown,

Stop writing your nonsense.

Its clear that the young poster, Aiming high has had enough of paying his taxes, there is too many woke people around England for him, he knows a women is a women, and he wants to move to dubai where he might have to contend with a few vegan cabin crew but at least he can get a proper ploughMAN sandwich!

There's too much red tape for him in the UK, the unions are rubbish, his pays crap and his taxes high, the labour laws are pointless too. Whereas in Dubai he can get himself a cleaner and pay them 20pence an hour to clean his bog. He will never have a bog cleaner or somebody ironing his underwear and mowing his lawn in the UK. He gets a chauffeur to work and the driver will get his bag out of the trunk for him. These are the type of things that really impress these people. Makes them feel important.

He is suggesting that Virgin and BA handled the pandemic exactly the same way as Emirates which is completely wrong. There was criteria in place for identifying these job losses and the documentation is available. Whilst I agree that BA's wasn't great with fleet over seniority in part, Virgin's seemed to make a lot of sense and seemed relatively fair. Not sure how many redundancies virgin made, but BA somewhere in the region of 250. EK was 1500 plus, which is way more than all the UK airlines combined! Plus all these guys have had the opportunity to return to their jobs in the UK. Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time. Easyjet didn't make one pilot redundant in the UK. Don't even think Ryanair made a UK pilot redundant. (not 100 percent sure of that but would be interested to know total number of Ryanair pilot redundancies)

Meanwhile in EK, the SVP of Training's son spent the whole pandemic on full pay and retaining his position, didn't even have unpaid leave. Funny.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm nor really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.

Yup BALPA saved every single UK pilot job at Easyjet. I just saw people piping up at the start spring 2020 with the articles stating Easyjet's making redundancies based on sickness , people were outraged then they went quiet when BALPA fought it and won! The same people also never mention it when EK did exactly that. Interesting isnt it.

[Kennytheking]

Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time.

Oooh out comes the name calling, save it for the playground. Another post high on emotion and short on facts, desperately rummaging through my posting history like a beggar going through a trash can.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Which bit wasn't facts?

[AIMINGHIGH123]

There you go again making assumptions. Did you not note the past tense of my statement that it wasn't a bed of roses?

I did leave EK and I am flying for one of the airlines you mentioned.

In regards to BALPA doing nothing for the Flybe guys and girls, I'm not really sure what you expected a union to do when the company you worked for went under? I notice you aren't trumpeting the fact that the same union you despise so much effectively ended the sham contractor model at RYR and has negotiated an earlier end to the pay cuts than the company wanted, or that the BACC agreed to take pay cuts to fund the salaries of those same 747 pilots who BA wanted to make redundant.

You are doing the same. My quote about BALPA wasn’t specific to losing a job but overall. As mentioned it they promised lots of help, SIMs to keep current etc etc. These things never happened. Some individual companies came out and helped off there own backs. Nothing to do with BALPA and that’s was really lovely of them. It’s well known at RYR that the UK side to the contract that has been agreed has been poorly handled. Some pay has been restored to pre COVID but if you read the contract it won’t be fully restored until 2023 IF a suitable profit is achieved. BALPA signed that off as a victory. Over 600 pilots at RYR are working there notices.

[Rhodes13]

You are doing the same. My quote about BALPA wasn’t specific to losing a job but overall. They promised lots of help, SIMs to keep current etc etc. These things never happened. Some individual companies came out and helped off there own backs. Nothing to do with BALPA and that’s was really lovely of them. It’s well known at RYR that the UK side to the contract that has been agreed has been poorly handled. Some pay has been restored to pre COVID but if you read the contract it won’t be fully restored until 2023 IF a suitable profit is achieved. BALPA signed that off as a victory. Over 600 pilots at RYR are working there notices.

And you know how many are working their notices how?

The alternative from RYR was a continuation of the status quo so how is more money in a members pocket earlier a bad thing? Is it perfect no, but its a damn sight better than what could have been achieved without a union. And I notice you conveniently gloss over the fact of the significant victory they scored with the ending of the sham contractor model with many of those same people now due large payouts from the company and the aligning of UK pay scales....

At the end of the day a union can only work within the laws of the land in which they operate in. Your ire should be directed at successive governments of both persuasions that have continually watered down workers and unions rights to a point where the UK has some of the weakest workers rights and protections in the EU.

But go on keep telling everyone how crap the UK and unions are and what a utopia EK and the ME is.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

And you know how many are working their notices how?

The alternative from RYR was a continuation of the status quo so how is more money in a members pocket earlier a bad thing? Is it perfect no, but its a damn sight better than what could have been achieved without a union. And I notice you conveniently gloss over the fact of the significant victory they scored with the ending of the sham contractor model with many of those same people now due large payouts from the company and the aligning of UK pay scales....

At the end of the day a union can only work within the laws of the land in which they operate in. Your ire should be directed at successive governments of both persuasions that have continually watered down workers and unions rights to a point where the UK has some of the weakest workers rights and protections in the EU.

But go on keep telling everyone how crap the UK and unions are and what a utopia EK and the ME is.

How do I know? That’s classified. I’m not a spring chicken and have contacts.

Yes it is a dam site better than it was I agreed. I think they should have done more before COVID, personally. Maybe not to the extremes of the late Bob Crow but he knew how to negotiate. I have worked at places with unions that were a fraction of the cost as BALPA charges it’s members and they were good as well.

Now to calm you down a bit.
I never said EK and ME is utopia. I don’t think anywhere is.
For my situation weighing up loads of pros and loads of cons between BA,EK,J2,Virgin,RYR plus a few others there’s not much in it. I would take the hand given to me at the time.
Big points against BA is my age. BA you have to get in when you are early to late 20s latest. After that it becomes less and less attractive.
Virgin the lack of security. Of all the airlines mentioned I would put these at risk of going completely. They have never done amazingly financially. J2 is a good shout. Big negatives for me are it’s only SH. Personally wouldn’t want to be restricted to just that. BA is amazing for that. You have options. However leads back to point 1.
EK is not perfect and it would be a max 15 year plan. The money is still pretty good and ideally it would lead to my other plan outside of aviation. At the same time seeing my friends and family in Dubai. Dubai is a very marmite place. 100%. Before I went to it the first time it didn’t interest me at all. It’s the only place we have been to more than 5 times on holiday. Maybe it’s because we have friends there but sorry to disappoint you we just love it. Some people love camping in the middle of nowhere that’s not us. Can’t think of anything worse than camping or sitting in a log cabin in the Alps. Done that not interesting.

I love being a pilot but I would rather retire early. Having ran the numbers with my current situation EK is the best bet in that regards. Coupled with seeing friends and flying LH with turnarounds thrown in as well.
If EK offered part time options a better bidding system it would be way way better of course it would. Never gonna happen is it. That is what makes BA and the UK airlines attractive but yes not gonna lie I hate paying so much tax and seeing nothing for it.

[5star]

Kenny the clown,

Stop writing your nonsense.

Its clear that the young poster, Aiming high has had enough of paying his taxes, there is too many woke people around England for him, he knows a women is a women, and he wants to move to dubai where he might have to contend with a few vegan cabin crew but at least he can get a proper ploughMAN sandwich!

There's too much red tape for him in the UK, the unions are rubbish, his pays crap and his taxes high, the labour laws are pointless too. Whereas in Dubai he can get himself a cleaner and pay them 20pence an hour to clean his bog. He will never have a bog cleaner or somebody ironing his underwear and mowing his lawn in the UK. He gets a chauffeur to work and the driver will get his bag out of the trunk for him. These are the type of things that really impress these people. Makes them feel important.

He is suggesting that Virgin and BA handled the pandemic exactly the same way as Emirates which is completely wrong. There was criteria in place for identifying these job losses and the documentation is available. Whilst I agree that BA's wasn't great with fleet over seniority in part, Virgin's seemed to make a lot of sense and seemed relatively fair. Not sure how many redundancies virgin made, but BA somewhere in the region of 250. EK was 1500 plus, which is way more than all the UK airlines combined! Plus all these guys have had the opportunity to return to their jobs in the UK. Lots of people like White knight and Kenny the king were posting about easyJets pilot redundancies all the time. Easyjet didn't make one pilot redundant in the UK. Don't even think Ryanair made a UK pilot redundant. (not 100 percent sure of that but would be interested to know total number of Ryanair pilot redundancies)

Meanwhile in EK, the SVP of Training's son spent the whole pandemic on full pay and retaining his position, didn't even have unpaid leave. Funny.

Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…

[Russell Kaymer]

Some people love camping in the middle of nowhere that’s not us.

You probably need to open Google maps and see where Meydan South is then....

[nimrodjoe]

They sent a clear message to everybody in the airline who isn’t a UAE national , or doesn’t have friends in the right places.

“nobody is remotely indispensable”

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…

A friend of mine's daughter has developed an eating disorder because she's missing all her friends in Dubai as well as suffering from anxiety, completely broken the family. Horrible what they did.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Maybe I should add my bit as well…..and paste the seniority list of sacked 380 guys, a list with some interesting gaps in it…The gaps were all friends/ ex colleagues of a certain VP Fleet and were magically saved during the culling….clowns…

would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciate it, thx

[nimrodjoe]

would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciateit, thx

anybody else heard that we are getting our two months back which was stolen in the pandemic ?

[nervous novice]

would be interesting to get a actual seniority list, if somebody is brav enough to send me one, would appreciate it, thx

Isn’t is just a staff number list? Somebody somewhere must have an actual seniority list…

[nervous novice]

Got 2 questions for someone at EK now:

1) what’s the law now regarding living with your girlfriend? If I took company accommodation, would it be an issue with front door security etc?

2) with the new accommodation allowance of 15500 AED, can a guy with his girlfriend get something decent in the Marina including bills etc for example and still have some left over?

Thanks :ok:

Laws around living with partners have been relaxed, I think. Someone else correct me if I’m talking rubbish, but it seems that it’s acceptable now. They have to keep up with the times if they want people to move to Dubai.

Wouldn’t live in the marina mate. Heavy traffic and badly designed, very poor build quality. Not as bad as JLT but far from quality.
Energy prices going up so be careful there.

[nervous novice]

anybody else heard that we are getting our two months back which was stolen in the pandemic ?

Yes and written warnings for all who were on unpaid leave because they attendance was been monitored.
Didn’t Gulf News or one of the other propaganda outlets say that emirates had furloughed their pilots.

[Adele Al Redhair]

anybody else heard that we are getting our two months back which was stolen in the pandemic ?

Berry funny. Wallah my PA thought I had choked on a date with my morning coffee and was calling for help but when she walked in, she found me crying with laughter on front of my computer after reading that.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

What the plan for the recession sir?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

What the plan for the recession sir?

simple - the Sir is blasting to the media and telling them that is almost their to convince airbus to build a new neo version for the future as every CEO has no clue about the value of this machine.
A380 the wonder to exit EK recession

[nimrodjoe]

simple - the Sir is blasting to the media and telling them that is almost their to convince airbus to build a new neo version for the future as every CEO has no clue about the value of this machine.
A380 the wonder to exit EK recession

FT seems to suggest this isn’t going to be great.

id imagine many more redundancies in EK in the next couple of years. The question is how many ?

[nervous novice]

FT seems to suggest this isn’t going to be great.

id imagine many more redundancies in EK in the next couple of years. The question is how many ?

350 on the way. Expect redundancies on the 380 as they wind it down and hire direct entry on 350

[nimrodjoe]

350 on the way. Expect redundancies on the 380 as they wind it down and hire direct entry on 350

Nervous has called this one right again.

Recession, quicker retirement of the A380. Redundancies on the 380 meanwhile recruiting A350 rated guys externally. saves a few dirham CCQ. That is exactly the type of thing emirates would do.

Can you imagine overcoming cancer but then in a global pandemic EK using that sickness against you to make you redundant and not let you return.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Nervous has called this one right again.

Recession, quicker retirement of the A380. Redundancies on the 380 meanwhile recruiting A350 rated guys externally. saves a few dirham CCQ. That is exactly the type of thing emirates would do.

Can you imagine overcoming cancer but then in a global pandemic EK using that sickness against you to make you redundant and not let you return.

redunancies over fleet change is less likely
but what happen in the past and what imaginable is that a low time capo re-joiner will be transfered. And once he gets back to the hours promised to be required they will tell that does not count because he just joined

that happens in the past and will happen again
and the command a suddenly 3 years away at min

[nimrodjoe]

Yer remember those DECs on the 330 who went back in the right seat! Many hadn’t been in that seat for decades. Caused a lot of problems actually having these guys babysat by captains with far less experience in many cases.

[Dropp the Pilot]

If you wish to dig deeper in the archives you will find that when Emirates had 727s but A310s were on the way as replacements, all 727 pilots were told they would be let go. The rationale given was that any pilot accustomed to flying something as crude as a 727 would be incapable of adjusting to the complexity of the Airbus.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

If you wish to dig deeper in the archives you will find that when Emirates had 727s but A310s were on the way as replacements, all 727 pilots were told they would be let go. The rationale given was that any pilot accustomed to flying something as crude as a 727 would be incapable of adjusting to the complexity of the Airbus.

did not have the history back to the 727
but 310 fo short of command, than placed on 330 lost valuable hours due to fleet change.

[nimrodjoe]

That’s ridiculous! Imagine if they did that elsewhere ,be huge news.

Forcing people to live in Meydan south has been really bad . That has been make or break for many , I don’t see it as a reasonable long term option to spend your days off watching emirates cars buzzing by all day.

[McToryMug]

https://www.instagram.com/captaindabble/

Why can some clowns in EK post on social media but others can't?

[nervous novice]

Wasn’t there some new joiner FO that was telling everyone how great he was on instagram. While everyone else was grounded and redundancies were taking place. No empathy or tact. Typical kind of moron you’d find walking around Meydan with a batty wife and daft outdoor reflective sunglasses.

[nervous novice]

That’s ridiculous! Imagine if they did that elsewhere ,be huge news.

Forcing people to live in Meydan south has been really bad . That has been make or break for many , I don’t see it as a reasonable long term option to spend your days off watching emirates cars buzzing by all day.

They’ve increased the live out allowance but you can’t live out unless you buy.
Unless you are a brand new joiner then you have the option, while people who are here for years get stuffed into meydan, surrounded by the single biggest conglomerate of clowns the world has ever seen.

[nervous novice]

If you wish to dig deeper in the archives you will find that when Emirates had 727s but A310s were on the way as replacements, all 727 pilots were told they would be let go. The rationale given was that any pilot accustomed to flying something as crude as a 727 would be incapable of adjusting to the complexity of the Airbus.

A lot of Airbus guys are incapable of adjusting to the complexity of an Airbus. :}

[nimrodjoe]

Wasn’t there some new joiner FO that was telling everyone how great he was on instagram. While everyone else was grounded and redundancies were taking place. No empathy or tact. Typical kind of moron you’d find walking around Meydan with a batty wife and daft outdoor reflective sunglasses.

There’s a lad who’s wife’s a teacher at the local school overheard saying “the redundancies might mean my hubby gets a quicker command” Don’t know the name of the chap.

[McToryMug]

https://www.instagram.com/captaindabble/

Not on instagram myself, my daughters are, but is that actually an Emirates Captain??

[flyTheBigFatLady]

There’s a lad who’s wife’s a teacher at the local school overheard saying “the redundancies might mean my hubby gets a quicker command” Don’t know the name of the chap.

there always someone in EK who believes he/she are the ones who deserve better than others and only work for having a profit from other dilemmas. This is exactly why EK gets away with nearly everything.

[nimrodjoe]

Is BT leaving at the end of the year ?

[McToryMug]

Is BT leaving at the end of the year ?

SVP BT? hope so been useless.

[nervous novice]

SVP BT? hope so been useless.

been good at keeping us up to date during the pandemic

[McToryMug]

been good at keeping us up to date during the pandemic

Yes he was quite quick as well to get himself back on full whack salary after a couple of weeks whilst all the pilots (other than SVP Flight training's son) were on unpaid leave for a year or so. Muppet.

[nimrodjoe]

Yes he was quite quick as well to get himself back on full whack salary after a couple of weeks whilst all the pilots (other than SVP Flight training's son) were on unpaid leave for a year or so. Muppet.

not sure what you are moaning about. It’s all about who you know in EK for good rosters , better flights, best accommodation, summer leave allowance, more secure position, wasta for your training flights etc

Mahoneys lads never gonna be up for redundancy is he

please tell me you understood this before you moved to the Middle East???

[VThokie2]

https://www.instagram.com/captaindabble/

Not on instagram myself, my daughters are, but is that actually an Emirates Captain??

If it is they need to realize there is a life outside the cockpit.

[nimrodjoe]

If it is they need to realize there is a life outside the cockpit.



These guys usually don’t have much going on outside the cockpit other than pretending they are investors, wearing reflective sun glasses, trying to kite surf, wearing “Pan Am” tee shirts, tryna date women less than half of their age and building a bar in the garden.

[McToryMug]

not sure what you are moaning about.

please tell me you understood this before you moved to the Middle East???

Captain Hindsight,

Like most people who join Emirates, I did my research. I knew what I was signing up for at the time.

Please can you explain how you knew what would happen since, specifically in the last 10-15 years the following happening:

Pay steps missed many times despite it being contractual.
Forced into company accommodation despite absolutely hating the place.
1500 plus pilot redundancies, sometimes randomly and often targeting people just because they had cancer, some being dismissed by a single email.
etc etc etc

It would be great to know how you knew that it would be so bad, and more importantly if you did, why did you join?

Now Mr Crystal ball. Question. I was made redundant, many less senior than me stayed, I left fairly quickly and rejoined fairly late. Is my job just to secure the SVP's families job, locals and our wonder kids with zero days sickness? In light of the Great Recession on its way, would it be stupid to stay in EK now? Am I out of the door again next time there's a new variant? Emirates certainly never do anything to make you feel too comfortable do they. Please tell us o great one.

[CraigDaDinosaur]

It's an unpopular, unwelcome and immutable fact that many ignore the warning signs and join our profession. Let this be a reminder that all pilots are not born equal and my job as safety pilot is to weed out all the dead wood who slipped the net in their interviews, initial training and their recurrent checks over the last couple of decades. Our standards must remain high and many won't meet those standards, good luck in your simulator details.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Wasn’t there some new joiner FO that was telling everyone how great he was on instagram. While everyone else was grounded and redundancies were taking place. No empathy or tact. Typical kind of moron you’d find walking around Meydan with a batty wife and daft outdoor reflective sunglasses.

He recently won a prize for taking a picture of the 380 fly past the Burj. He's a first class moron and has pissed a lot of people off with his social media accounts including some in HQ.

[Emma Royds]

If it is they need to realize there is a life outside the cockpit.

A life outside of Dubai! Utopia is V1 out of DXB as a passenger.

[nervous novice]

He recently won a prize for taking a picture of the 380 fly past the Burj. He's a first class moron and has pissed a lot of people off with his social media accounts including some in HQ.

Like that Belgian trainer who thinks he’s a photographer. It’s comical, nobody likes him and most see him as some kind of looser. Yet they continue to kid themselves by pretending that emirates is their second job.

It's an unpopular, unwelcome and immutable fact that many ignore the warning signs and join our profession. Let this be a reminder that all pilots are not born equal and my job as safety pilot is to weed out all the dead wood who slipped the net in their interviews, initial training and their recurrent checks over the last couple of decades. Our standards must remain high and many won't meet those standards, good luck in your simulator details.

Do some self reflection with your pal Ricky up there on 3rd and do us all a favour and retire.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

It's an unpopular, unwelcome and immutable fact that many ignore the warning signs and join our profession. Let this be a reminder that all pilots are not born equal and my job as safety pilot is to weed out all the dead wood who slipped the net in their interviews, initial training and their recurrent checks over the last couple of decades. Our standards must remain high and many won't meet those standards, good luck in your simulator details.

sorry to say but you speak with hypocraty at its best.
somebody with a 20 year life in Dubai, and because this life ending on some sick days is now dead wood which needs to sorted.
Why is it that someone doing a long landing by 200 meters in dxb(4000m RWY) gets a warning letter, while another guy having a terrain warning following a short cut, not knowing the aircrafts performance gets nothing?
Should you not think about your “training” if people pass decades long the recurrents and suddenly they miss all warning signs, as you call it. At the end it’s only luck who is judging over the individual on a given day as you in the 3rd floor only measure with your personality but not over given, organized and well published standards. Sometimes you even invent a standard which is not even documented as such or at all just to justify your ruling.
And your justification is based weeks of brainstorming over a event which does not include the opinion of people who where actually there.

Also you have lowered the hiring standards to nearly zero, and now you are telling people who served one or decades professionally, that they are not equally born pilots and need to be sorted out like dead wood.

This is what you name as high standard. If you would have that standard you would also filter out bad apples in training, rather than protecting them there are some major slips throu the net as well.

[nimrodjoe]

Like that Belgian trainer who thinks he’s a photographer. It’s comical, nobody likes him

Is this the guy who was abusing the redundant FO on Facebook in 2020 who was trying to make a bit of a living and help some other redundant colleagues out by selling framed photographs of the aircraft they were flying with their epaulettes and wings.

What the trainer failed to realize was that the photographers of these photos had given their permission for the use and given the circumstances at the time , it was a seriously inhuman response from that trainer, but then again these people only ever think about themselves and he was fighting for money in his pocket.

The trainer soon backed down when presented with the facts and many redundant pilots left the UAE with a memorabilia of their time flying in the Middle East. No doubt the Belgian would had stopped this if he could.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Heard the roadshows have been pretty quiet.....

[nervous novice]

Heard the roadshows have been pretty quiet.....

Brian says the road shows are doing very well and I believe him.
j

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Yes I heard fat Mandy saying it has been busy

[McToryMug]

All roadshows are busy at the moment. Brian is full of crap, not a sign of great times in Emirates.

[nimrodjoe]

There’s big lines to get on the bus back to the labour camp in Al Quoz too. Won’t be joining it .

[nervous novice]

Rumours going around of accommodation opt out without buying going around. Would make a huge difference to lifestyle if you didn’t have to live in the Meydan dumps.

[nimrodjoe]

Yes, finally been offered opt out again yesterday morning. No doubt forced back in to meydan at the drop of a hat at some point.

[nervous novice]

It’ll be back in to that new complex they are building behind Sarab.

[Shazeem]

Like that Belgian trainer who thinks he’s a photographer. It’s comical, nobody likes him and most see him as some kind of looser. Yet they continue to kid themselves by pretending that emirates is their second job.



Do some self reflection with your pal Ricky up there on 3rd and do us all a favour and retire.

Nice bait.
He, she or it sounds like a troll.. if not it is even more sad. Everyone can make mistakes. I.e. your scandinavian ex colleague above JFK. Had to safety debrief himself in the office.

[Pif Paf]

So has anyone else heard or got proof that some of the pilots leaving have pointed out they’ve not been repaid all the money deducted during the 6 months at 50%. These guys apparently got repaid after threatening to sue? if true then any rumors of when we might get repaid,

TCBT leaving? Well he’s been been as effective as the “tub of lard” (ref bbc program Have I got news for you!). Only problem is which “yes” man will they bring in next!,

[Emma Royds]

If we didn't have the bungling Persian running Flight Ops and Engineering, maybe BT and others before him would have had a chance to make some positive impact. No one lasts long in that post.

At the height of the pandemic, BT did score an own goal by peddling rumours rather than spreading fact. Many people on the 380 were hanging on every word in the weekly email, and none of us had any idea what was in store for us. During the pandemic's dark days, his weekly spiel at times resembled an opinion column in a newspaper about how quickly the airline industry would recover, rather than spreading factual and relevant information within an EK context, as one would expect from an operational update.

[All hat and no cows]

It's an unpopular, unwelcome and immutable fact that many ignore the warning signs and join our profession. Let this be a reminder that all pilots are not born equal and my job as safety pilot is to weed out all the dead wood who slipped the net in their interviews, initial training and their recurrent checks over the last couple of decades. Our standards must remain high and many won't meet those standards, good luck in your simulator details.

Wow, no wonder the emirates guys who are showing up at my company by the boatload are delighted by our training and cockpit environment.
unfortunately the recent safety record at EK does not justify such unwarranted arrogance and actually reflects very poorly indeed on the so called lol standards that you have.

[Shazeem]

Wow, no wonder the emirates guys who are showing up at my company by the boatload are delighted by our training and cockpit environment.
unfortunately the recent safety record at EK does not justify such unwarranted arrogance and actually reflects very poorly indeed on the so called lol standards that you have.

When 20+ years CPTs get nervous when a OPC/LPC is scheduled something is very wrong. "Do you know this examiner?" is a question often heared.
​​​​​​And as long as f/o's call sick when they have to help out in the sim...something is wrong. If you look at yhe number of flights and destinations, incidents are bound to happen like at other airlines. How they are handled is a different cookie.

[nimrodjoe]

Agree with everything above.

“Do you know the captain” , “I’ll go sick for that sim instead of risking my career” all very common place

I had a CRM instructor (local guy TRI previously a TRI FO) tell the whole class that he knew one of the captains in the New York incident. Said he’d flown with him just prior to the event and then preceded to trash him for a good 5-10 minutes. Disgraceful really.

[Eric Hartman]

So has anyone else heard or got proof that some of the pilots leaving have pointed out they’ve not been repaid all the money deducted during the 6 months at 50%. These guys apparently got repaid after threatening to sue? if true then any rumors of when we might get repaid,

TCBT leaving? Well he’s been been as effective as the “tub of lard” (ref bbc program Have I got news for you!). Only problem is which “yes” man will they bring in next!,

Repaid after threatening to sue? I doubt it. You should be grateful for a special payment earlier this year. EK could care less about its workforce. They’re busy investing 2 bln US in better customer experience. Hope they’ll have someone qualified to fly those customers in a few years.

[5star]

Agree with everything above.

“Do you know the captain” , “I’ll go sick for that sim instead of risking my career” all very common place

I had a CRM instructor (local guy TRI previously a TRI FO) tell the whole class that he knew one of the captains in the New York incident. Said he’d flown with him just prior to the event and then preceded to trash him for a good 5-10 minutes. Disgraceful really.

Occasionally visiting this forum and reading the latest posts: can only shake my head and conclude nothing has changed...maybe its even gotten worse!
Hearing more and more rumors of senior guys having horror missions in the sim during lpc/opc or handling sim, with demotion a not so infrequent outcome... Enjoy!
Don't ever forget you have exactly 1 life!!! Don't let them ruin your career/life!
​​​​​​​
Greetz from a greener grass place!

[McToryMug]

Occasionally visiting this forum and reading the latest posts: can only shake my head and conclude nothing has changed...maybe its even gotten worse!
Hearing more and more rumors of senior guys having horror missions in the sim during lpc/opc or handling sim, with demotion a not so infrequent outcome... Enjoy!
Don't ever forget you have exactly 1 life!!! Don't let them ruin your career/life!

Greetz from a greener grass place!

Yes, a CRM instructor telling his CRM class the senior captain who made one mistake was not up to the job and the termination was the best outcome for both himself and the company.

In a similar way to the instagram clown who was mocking redundant who didn't reuturn, these people get a little hard on from feeling some accomplishment in the face of other's misery. Strange, probably happens everywhere but seems more prominent in EK and this region.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Yes, a CRM instructor telling his CRM class the senior captain who made one mistake was not up to the job and the termination was the best outcome for both himself and the company.

In a similar way to the instagram clown who was mocking redundant who didn't reuturn, these people get a little hard on from feeling some accomplishment in the face of other's misery. Strange, probably happens everywhere but seems more prominent in EK and this region.

Training FO haha, brilliant are they all locals?

[Eric Hartman]

How’s the 3month payback going, guys? Looks like a massive flight pay increase also.

[BigGeordie]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/uae-airline-pilot-salaries-among-worlds-highest-amidst-intense-hiring-spree-1.90153380

Look, Emirates already pay "among the worlds highest salaries" so there is absolutely no need for a pay rise. In fact, people working there are lucky to have such a wonderfully benevolent employer. It must be true, the Gulf News says so.

[White Sausage]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/uae-airline-pilot-salaries-among-worlds-highest-amidst-intense-hiring-spree-1.90153380

Look, Emirates already pay "among the worlds highest salaries" so there is absolutely no need for a pay rise. In fact, people working there are lucky to have such a wonderfully benevolent employer. It must be true, the Gulf News says so.

The usual crap propaganda…I was in the first wave 2 years ago and lucky enough to land a job in a fantastic cargo airline in EU. Much better salary, even after taxes for much less work and most importantly much better quality of life. Biting my butt that I didn’t come here way earlier.
So there IS way better jobs out there! I don’t even want to mention the US with 2 times the EK salary, also coupled with a much better life…

[SOPS]

Or just be a poor train driver. I wish I had done it years ago. Yes ..last year I only grossed $127000 AUD. But I get 9 weeks leave… two of those can be split into single days if you want to go to a wedding or birthday or whatever, max allowable shift is 9 hours with a minimum of 30 minute break every 4 hours. Last week I was rostered for 7 days straight.. but because I can only do 36 hours in a week..my first two shifts were 9 hours and the next 5 were between 5 and 6 hours… including meal breaks.

Roster swapping is easy and encouraged to support peoples individual life style Checks are in a “ no threat” environment ( we all lean from mistakes) …. It’s a lovely place to work.

And I’m home every night.

There is a life away from aircraft.

[Fired600]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/uae-airline-pilot-salaries-among-worlds-highest-amidst-intense-hiring-spree-1.90153380

Look, Emirates already pay "among the worlds highest salaries" so there is absolutely no need for a pay rise. In fact, people working there are lucky to have such a wonderfully benevolent employer. It must be true, the Gulf News says so.

They are wonderful and apparently didn’t get rid of anyone at all in the pandemic….. or was just the GoodNews Times again

[nimrodjoe]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/uae-airline-pilot-salaries-among-worlds-highest-amidst-intense-hiring-spree-1.90153380




I think they actually believe what they write.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

I think they actually believe what they write.

the question is more how much money they cash in after having done the research but only writing half to no true facts

[PPRuNeUser0216]

the question is more how much money they cash in after having done the research but only writing half to no true facts

Fake news.

Weren't they calling redundancy 'furlough' last year?

If it's so great, why does so much time and money go into trying to attract pilots to join?

[nimrodjoe]

Maximilian Buerger?

[PPRuNeUser0216]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aviationfly-pilot-training-maximilian-buerger/details/experience/

If you want a laugh. He entered aviation in 2019 , and now speaks confidently about the supply,demand and remuneration of all pilots in the MER.

No proper pay rise chaps, max says!

[Pif Paf]

So EK is making money. Lots! High load factor, higher prices plus cargo limited by crews, cargo prices up, more contracts than cargo management can actually accept.

How am I sure? Well apart from the normal chats and rumours, EK always tries to use up some of the excess cash before end of year therefore not having to pay out the profit share. So what did they do this time - $1 billion cabin refit! You all saw it!

Also EK has just been able to get hold of the $85 million held in Nigeria. So that’s more money in the coffers.

Speaks volumes having all this cash they can’t pay us back the remaining 4 months of half pay they owe us out of the 6 ! Also more notably nobody seems to address the issue in the fleet updates. It’s an uncomfortable subject , so let’s pretend to forget !

It has not been forgotten!

somebody in EK ought to address this asap

[flyTheBigFatLady]

So EK is making money. Lots! High load factor, higher prices plus cargo limited by crews, cargo prices up, more contracts than cargo management can actually accept.

How am I sure? Well apart from the normal chats and rumours, EK always tries to use up some of the excess cash before end of year therefore not having to pay out the profit share. So what did they do this time - $1 billion cabin refit! You all saw it!

Also EK has just been able to get hold of the $85 million held in Nigeria. So that’s more money in the coffers.

Speaks volumes having all this cash they can’t pay us back the remaining 4 months of half pay they owe us out of the 6 ! Also more notably nobody seems to address the issue in the fleet updates. It’s an uncomfortable subject , so let’s pretend to forget !

It has not been forgotten!

somebody in EK ought to address this asap

STC & HH always did that
remember 1bil$ RR engine deal just 3 weeks before announcement of profit share which was already delayed by 2 month - outcome 0 for the employees

[nimrodjoe]

Yes it’s indefensible now so they all just go quiet , kennytheking whiteknight all the other costa minions aren’t even defending the company these days

[Kennytheking]

Yes it’s indefensible now so they all just go quiet , kennytheking whiteknight all the other costa minions aren’t even defending the company these days
Actually, I'm just tired of answering your constant whinging. I have made my points and I believe the intended audience understands - I am quite happy to leave you to wallow in your endless self pity.

[Dropp the Pilot]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x636/screen_shot_2022_09_03_at_12_09_10_pm_a838d9173da8131bffb124 def6a5f8f864d2579a.png

[nimrodjoe]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x636/screen_shot_2022_09_03_at_12_09_10_pm_a838d9173da8131bffb124 def6a5f8f864d2579a.png

Caught a few. tweedle dumb and tweedle dee. Ek ambassadors. Funny guys.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Not my fight but, just for accuracy, Nimrod (one word as in nimrodjoe) means 'Mighty Hunter.'

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Nimrod

[PPRuNeUser0216]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x636/screen_shot_2022_09_03_at_12_09_10_pm_a838d9173da8131bffb124 def6a5f8f864d2579a.png


Ah the EK management back slapping morons are back

[Emma Royds]

It was very interesting to see a LinkedIn post from last week, where one of our former management pilots from the UAE posted the following:

Trust = Loyalty.
No Trust = No Loyalty.
So don't be surprised when your employees quit.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

It was very interesting to see a LinkedIn post from last week, where one of our former management pilots from the UAE posted the following:

Trust = Loyalty.
No Trust = No Loyalty.
So don't be surprised when your employees quit.

Emirates has been considered a joke amongst the considerable majority of professional pilots worldwide for the last 10-15 years, but the couple here who cant see below the 5 star hotels and beach clubs never fail to surprise me.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

It was very interesting to see a LinkedIn post from last week, where one of our former management pilots from the UAE posted the following:

Trust = Loyalty.
No Trust = No Loyalty.
So don't be surprised when your employees quit.

I hope that the original author of this LinkedIn post is not convinced that his UAE national fellows or the the company in question is in any kind loyal or trustworthy
I didn’t realize we have 1st April again

[Red Hackle]

Maybe I am wrong but unfortunately as pilots we have to realise that we are not as valuable a commodity as we might like to think. The beancounters and management know this and will continue to use this fact to their full advantage for as long as they can. The industry has changed radically and aircraft are far safer and do not fall out of the sky so easily anymore. Thirty plus years ago it would have been a very different story, but nowadays it is actually a lot harder to end up a statistic and we have seen that many times over the years. As pilots we see the near accidents and incidents and wonder in awe why management aren't shaken into action, but they know full well that the chances of a hull loss are very rare and when it does happen the public will forget about it in a few days. Insurance companies also know this and are prepared to accept the risk. They dont want us old experienced pilots as we are a major expense when you can have almost two new Captains for the same salary. They know they can shake a tree nowdays and cheap pilots will fall out of it.

[Fired600]

The management might think that , but I don’t think the passengers do. I think passengers want the old hairy Sully type with safe hands, not the dewy eyed teenager with more time on Instagram than the flight deck. They are more willing to fly low cost with low experience but expect experience when they pay the EK prices and believe the EK shiny hype.

Shame the public doesn’t realise….maybe they should ;)

[JAARule]

Ah the EK management back slapping morons are back
Nimrod always gonna nimrod. It's in his culture and we see it every day on the line with him or his brethren with whom we are infested.

[Eric Hartman]

Apparently 100+ resignations in August alone. But surely it’s just normal attrition, nothing to worry about.

[nimrodjoe]

Anybody would think a recessions on its way…

just got to make sure where you end up is indeed more secure

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Apparently 100+ resignations in August alone. But surely it’s just normal attrition, nothing to worry about.

Fleeing like rats off a sinking ship?

Rearranging the deck chairs with premium Economy now.

Is there actually anywhere people can move though, as all the PPRUNE senior members of the establishment keep saying... there's no world outside emirates, there's nothing else, its ek or nothing. where are all these guys going? is there actually a big wide world outside the UAE? sounds scary.

It would be nice day to think that one day I could live somewhere where I can drink the tap water.

[Pif Paf]

Insurance companies also know this and are prepared to accept the risk. They dont want us old experienced pilots as we are a major expense when you can have almost two new Captains for the same salary. They know they can shake a tree nowdays and cheap pilots will fall out of it..

yes they don’t like paying for older experienced pilots but they need us, why?

Many years ago, at one of the pilots meetings, we were told that EKs insurance premiums had dropped. EK was very happy! They also explained why.

Airlines have insurance, in some respects similar to car insurance.so aircraft age, number of aircraft, route structure, accident record, safety record, maintenance, hours flown etc all count towards premiums. Also a major factor is pilots ages and experience levels. Too many young, inexperienced pilots mean the premiums go up.

So while senior experienced captains may cost some money in reality they need a proportion of the flight crew to be older and more experienced to balance out the number of young, inexperienced Pilots coming through, in order to keep the insurance companies happy! Also it makes passengers a bit happier knowing there’s some experience on the flight deck?

(plus someone needs to make sure the young, I’ve been flying commercially for 2 years, I therefore know it all, facebook wonder, instagram pasting, Porsche/ Bentley / Ferrari driving (delete as necessary ), I think it’s normal to fly in fully reclined position with feet up because it’s cool, mobile phone hugging, I’m a sky god type actually remembers he’s got to do a job whilst on flight deck)
😀

[PPRuNeUser0216]

yes they don’t like paying for older experienced pilots but they need us, why?

Many years ago, at one of the pilots meetings, we were told that EKs insurance premiums had dropped. EK was very happy! They also explained why.

Airlines have insurance, in some respects similar to car insurance.so aircraft age, number of aircraft, route structure, accident record, safety record, maintenance, hours flown etc all count towards premiums. Also a major factor is pilots ages and experience levels. Too many young, inexperienced pilots mean the premiums go up.

So while senior experienced captains may cost some money in reality they need a proportion of the flight crew to be older and more experienced to balance out the number of young, inexperienced Pilots coming through, in order to keep the insurance companies happy! Also it makes passengers a bit happier knowing there’s some experience on the flight deck?

(plus someone needs to make sure the young, I’ve been flying commercially for 2 years, I therefore know it all, facebook wonder, instagram pasting, Porsche/ Bentley / Ferrari driving (delete as necessary ), I think it’s normal to fly in fully reclined position with feet up because it’s cool, mobile phone hugging, I’m a sky god type actually remembers he’s got to do a job whilst on flight deck)
😀

Plenty of older hands who have decided to reinvent themselves in EK after another failed marriage.

A new Thai girlfriend the same age as their daughter, a new account on tinder with a username like SmoothOperator, big speeches with the crew half their age about going out for ramen and a beer down route and they will buy the first drink (they usually don't turn up) , taking selfies on the steps at the end of the flight doing peace signs closing an eye and sticking a tongue out, giving relationship advice to the new GR2 for an hour in the galley armed with a fairly recently acquired complexed knowledge of star sign compatibility, out on ladies nights at ramusake bopping their head, tapping their foot to the beat and holding a desperado with a lime in it, a new car with a price tag of a small mortgage and a roof that comes off and an apple sticker on it, posts on Instagram of their protein shakes with cheeky captions like 'never skip leg day', walking around airports with an extremely small cup of branded coffee, flying over the pole in their dressing gown and slippers alongside a sizeable collection of the first class amenity kit, a semi-professional origami attempt on their cap, a glove left in the bunk for us because they are now young and trendy.

[svp]

Plenty of older hands who have decided to reinvent themselves in EK after another failed marriage.

A new Thai girlfriend the same age as their daughter, a new account on tinder with a username like SmoothOperator, big speeches with the crew half their age about going out for ramen and a beer down route and they will buy the first drink (they usually don't turn up) , taking selfies on the steps at the end of the flight doing peace signs closing an eye and sticking a tongue out, giving relationship advice to the new GR2 for an hour in the galley armed with a fairly recently acquired complexed knowledge of star sign compatibility, out on ladies nights at ramusake bopping their head, tapping their foot to the beat and holding a desperado with a lime in it, a new car with a price tag of a small mortgage and a roof that comes off and an apple sticker on it, posts on Instagram of their protein shakes with cheeky captions like 'never skip leg day', walking around airports with an extremely small cup of branded coffee, flying over the pole in their dressing gown and slippers alongside a sizeable collection of the first class amenity kit, a semi-professional origami attempt on their cap, a glove left in the bunk for us because they are now young and trendy.

star, i have registered here to to agree with you LOL

[Emma Royds]

Anybody would think a recessions on its way…

just got to make sure where you end up is indeed more secure

After the shambolic way in which the company handled the COVID redundancy process, the bar has been set rather low for what constitutes a more secure position.

[nimrodjoe]

After the shambolic way in which the company handled the COVID redundancy process, the bar has been set rather low for what constitutes a more secure position.

you can hear them now though can’t you… “ALL companies did the same”

no they didn’t .

[Whitemonk Returns]

star, i have registered here to to agree with you LOL

Honestly, sounds pretty awesome!

[nimrodjoe]

Honestly, sounds pretty awesome!

Keyword is sounds

[Dropp the Pilot]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/524x646/screen_shot_2022_09_10_at_6_27_32_pm_9a672053054b526b67eb149 cf07067478b5678e9.png

[nimrodjoe]

Stop taking the forum and yourself so seriously. Learn some Aussie humility (that’s an oxymoron. Ironic)
​​​

[McToryMug]

EK only gave 4 percent when inflations creeping up to 10 but this is a one off. Next year they are anticipating above inflation pay rises they say.

[nimrodjoe]

EK only gave 4 percent when inflations creeping up to 10 but this is a one off. Next year they are anticipating above inflation pay rises they say.

who says ?….

[PPRuNeUser0216]

People should be happy with 4 percent. that's a good pay rise compared to many places and the extra few dirhams will go a long way.

[Pif Paf]

Mike with those sentiments you could possibly be the DCPB from Germany!

[SOPS]

Mike with those sentiments you could possibly be the DCPB from Germany!
That’s Gold.😁😁😁

[svp]

pilots with highest paid jobs here, yet they complain about a pay rise or not good salary.

where else would you get this much anyway? no where in Europe or us would you get this much

[Emma Royds]

Wouldn't take much cash to impress that East German. Stasinomics! :E

[Shazeem]

Wouldn't take much cash to impress that East German. Stasinomics! :E

Zum kotzen.
It turned out.. very expandable like most DCPB's. What's that word again..? Karma. In Sha'a Allah.

There is an irish bulldog now doing the dirty work. Has learnt from the best it seems.

[Shazeem]

People should be happy with 4 percent. that's a good pay rise compared to many places and the extra few dirhams will go a long way.
You might be correct. ​​​​​​Compared to which places? How many dirhams is a few?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

pilots with highest paid jobs here, yet they complain about a pay rise or not good salary.

where else would you get this much anyway? no where in Europe or us would you get this much

Europe in general agreed
US - have a closer look what they pay now

[SaulGoodman]

pilots with highest paid jobs here, yet they complain about a pay rise or not good salary.

where else would you get this much anyway? no where in Europe or us would you get this much

gross I al not that far off in Europe. Well now maybe with only 3,71 AED to the Drachme.

[Latestormer]

yes they don’t like paying for older experienced pilots but they need us, why?

Many years ago, at one of the pilots meetings, we were told that EKs insurance premiums had dropped. EK was very happy! They also explained why.

Airlines have insurance, in some respects similar to car insurance.so aircraft age, number of aircraft, route structure, accident record, safety record, maintenance, hours flown etc all count towards premiums. Also a major factor is pilots ages and experience levels. Too many young, inexperienced pilots mean the premiums go up.

So while senior experienced captains may cost some money in reality they need a proportion of the flight crew to be older and more experienced to balance out the number of young, inexperienced Pilots coming through, in order to keep the insurance companies happy! Also it makes passengers a bit happier knowing there’s some experience on the flight deck?

(plus someone needs to make sure the young, I’ve been flying commercially for 2 years, I therefore know it all, facebook wonder, instagram pasting, Porsche/ Bentley / Ferrari driving (delete as necessary ), I think it’s normal to fly in fully reclined position with feet up because it’s cool, mobile phone hugging, I’m a sky god type actually remembers he’s got to do a job whilst on flight deck)
😀


I wonder if you truly believe what you just wrote. Pilot age or experience has nothing to do with safety records these days. And it is a shame if any insurance company still uses that as a criteria. Most of recent accidents (the shameful ones at least) happened only with experienced and eventually aged pilots. Even with more than 2 pilots on the flight deck.

How qualified those pilots are, and how skilled, is what really matters. And that - as a standard - you won't find from A330s crashing into the ocean to 777s stalling over the sea wall or even after retracting the L/G over the runway.


(I do agree with your description of what we can call "tik tok generation", however).

[FlightDetent]

Is that true IRL or just confirmation bias?
+ the T7 crew from EK did not have an abundance of age
+ PIA A320 and Ethiopean MAX both had F/Os not far beyond just qualified
+ Atlas 767 experience if PM was severely irregular
+ AirAsia F/O very wrong mix of years to hours

[svp]

Europe in general agreed
US - have a closer look what they pay now

don't believe the ads. in order to achieve this much you have to be very senior in one of the three majors. like very senior long haul pilot and don't forget its taxed overall

[Latestormer]

Is that true IRL or just confirmation bias?
+ the T7 crew from EK did not have an abundance of age

34 - 7,000 / 37 - 7,000

+ PIA A320 and Ethiopean MAX both had F/Os not far beyond just qualified

PIA is a bit hard to talk about as there was nothing sane about that flight... Even their licences. I'll refrain to talk about this one specifically.

Ethiopian

29 - 8,000 / 25 - 360

After the crash, the MAX was grounded and had to undergo an entirely redesign on MCAS. New training was then given. Needless to say that the crew did realise what was going on and they did switch to cutout both trim actuators.

+ Atlas 767 experience if PM was severely irregular

Both under "training watch" as they've failed basic stuff.

60 - 11,000 / 44 - 5,000

+ AirAsia F/O very wrong mix of years to hours

I should remind you that the Captain left his seat to reset unauthorised C/Bs. His 20 thousand hour experience did raise the insurance price, i guess?

Yet, not sure what you mean by "wrong mix of years to hours".

53 - 20,500 / 46 - 2,200


AF447

58 - 10,000 / 37 - 6,500 / 32 - 2,900

Asiana

49 - 12,000 / 45 - 9,600 / 40 - 4,500


So, here is your data. What exactly is the point regarding to age/hours? How did that help?

[VThokie2]

don't believe the ads. in order to achieve this much you have to be very senior in one of the three majors. like very senior long haul pilot and don't forget its taxed overall

Hmm I’m an EX EK driver, Now a 5 yr FO at a US low cost NB operator… 230K this year, work a day or two extra every month granted but still over 15 days off a month. Not bragging at all, but to counter your point. And I’m not an anomaly. But believe what you like.

[nimrodjoe]

Of course nobody with a half decent job in USA or EU is coming to EK.

The only ones from the UK I see are Ryanair guys. EU guys usually come as a second/third choice having not got in a proper gig back home.

Africa, Aus and Asia is the future for this airline !

[Mexican123]

Of course nobody with a half decent job in USA or EU is coming to EK.

The only ones from the UK I see are Ryanair guys. EU guys usually come as a second/third choice having not got in a proper gig back home.

Africa, Aus and Asia is the future for this airline !

And don’t forget Mexico and South America.

I am currently flying as a FO at Aeromexico (Mexico biggest airline) NB making 60k.

I prefer a ****ty workload with a ****ty management and some dollars over a ****ty workload, ****ty pay and ****ty management. I mean, it’s an easy choice.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Of course nobody with a half decent job in USA or EU is coming to EK.

The only ones from the UK I see are Ryanair guys. EU guys usually come as a second/third choice having not got in a proper gig back home.

Africa, Aus and Asia is the future for this airline !

Nobody?

Maybe not recently but EK definitely had people from BA and Virgin join, say 5 years ago for sure. Got a few from Jet2 joining. Virgin hire and fire regularly. You only have to look through LinkedIn to see peoples profiles.

Ryanair well EK could fill the whole 777 fleet I’m sure. Close to a 1000 Ryanair pilots working notice. Qatar and EK the top places for FOs. Captains bit tough to go from LHS okish position to RHS. Ryanair might not have got rid of pilots during the pandemic but they didn’t pay salaries either and paying less than pre pandemic now so people just fed up.
UK wise most only see BA as a step up.

[Rhodes13]

Nobody?

Maybe not recently but EK definitely had people from BA and Virgin join, say 5 years ago for sure. Got a few from Jet2 joining. Virgin hire and fire regularly. You only have to look through LinkedIn to see peoples profiles.

Ryanair well EK could fill the whole 777 fleet I’m sure. Close to a 1000 Ryanair pilots working notice. Qatar and EK the top places for FOs. Captains bit tough to go from LHS okish position to RHS. Ryanair might not have got rid of pilots during the pandemic but they didn’t pay salaries either and paying less than pre pandemic now so people just fed up.
UK wise most only see BA as a step up.

Wrong again. No one has left Virgin in the last 5 years to join EK. From BA you could count the number on one hand.

Try to stop making up the story as you go along.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Wrong again. No one has left Virgin in the last 5 years to join EK. From BA you could count the number on one hand.

Try to stop making up the story as you go along.

So people have left from BA then?

I didn’t say in the last 5 years specifically. I didn’t specify Virgin UK. That’s your presumption on both.

Norodjoe said he is only seeing Ryanair.

I could even find people leaving Qantas in 2019 for Emirates. Unless everyone in LinkedIn is making stuff up.

[Rhodes13]

So people have left from BA then?

I didn’t say in the last 5 years specifically. I didn’t specify Virgin UK. That’s your presumption on both.

Norodjoe said he is only seeing Ryanair.

I could even find people leaving Qantas in 2019 for Emirates. Unless everyone in LinkedIn is making stuff up.

Once again changing the story. Perhaps you should be a politician.

You said Virgin, which colloquially is taken to mean Virgin Atlantic not Virgin Australia or Virgin America especially given that you're posting from the UK. If you mean those companies you would have said so. You also said "say 5 years ago for sure."

Now I'm no English scholar but that statement implies you meant in the last 5 years. I'll go one better for you. No one joined EK from Virgin in the last 10 years. And BA yes, you could literally count them on one hand with multiple fingers missing.

Again when saying Qantas, you want to specify if its mainline or the regionals? When you try and paint a picture to suit a narrative its very easy to cherry pick the data. How about you mention all the people going the other way or does that not suit your agenda?

But sure keep painting the picture as bleak as possible for the UK/ ROW. Your tune is really quite tiresome.

I still have to ask if its so good why aren't you there yet instead of plodding it out in the UK?