Airline pilots wearing medal ribbons on tunic

[AlphaMikeTango]

I have noticed on a number of vintage airline photographs pilots wearing war decoration and medal ribbons on their uniform tunics below (and oddly sometimes above) their pilot wings.
So far I have seen pre-1939 ribbons on Imperial Airways uniforms, WW2 and Korean War ribbons on those of BOAC, BEA, Qantas and SAA.
Were there any other airlines that followed this practice, was it unique to the British sphere of influence and did it fade away with the last of the veterans of these conflicts? I know pilots of SAA wore ribbons certainly until the late 1970s.
Any further info on the subject will be much appreciated.

[tubby linton]

I remember one pilot in the late 1980s who wore his long service medal ribbon on his airline jacket.

[John Eacott]

The wearing of medal ribbons in various occupations is currently quite common in Oz, and generally appreciated by the public. Many of our volunteer BloodBikes Australia riders have their ribbons on their BBA Vest, I see no issue with that either.

[kenparry]

More than one of my airline contemporaries (UK, 1980s onward) wore military ribbons from their service in the 1960s. Nobody seemed to comment.

[Asturias56]

" More than one of my airline contemporaries (UK, 1980s onward) wore military ribbons from their service in the 1960s. Nobody seemed to comment."

What could you honestly say - as a gentleman?

[wiggy]

More than one of my airline contemporaries (UK, 1980s onward) wore military ribbons from their service in the 1960s. Nobody seemed to comment.

Similar here, up until a couple of years back I worked at a large UK airline with for example one individual who wore ribbons due service in the Falklands conflict, another one ribbons due to their service with the Australian armed Forces.

[teeteringhead]

Don’t see the problem wearing ribbons with any uniform. Have seen them recently on police, fire and ambulance workers - when they’re wearing “best”.

Used to be more widespread; in my youth (50s and 60s) you could see ‘bus conductors and tube drivers with ribbons. My old Scoutmaster (“Chiefy” Johnson) wore his ribbons on his scout shirt!

[BEagle]

MoD doesn't allow service personnel who were awarded the 'Liberation of Kuwait' medals by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to wear them on their service uniforms - but presumably once they've left the service they could wear them plus other medals on airline uniforms, scout leader uniforms etc. or when 'black tie with miniatures' is the dress code for non-active service personnel?

[albatross]

After WW2 I was told many airlines mandated the wearing of service ribbons.
It was supposedly to convince passengers they were flying with professionals in charge.
It was also very difficult to even be considered for hiring if you were not a former service pilot.
Of course multi engine pilots had a better chance than single engine pilots as they had better IFR skills.
This PO’d many civil pilots who had flown for RAF Ferry Command and accumulated many hours of ocean flying.

[meleagertoo]

In my last airline (thousand+ of pilots) I never saw this once, nor in previous airlines.
I once worked for a charter company that employed a pompous prat part-time who wore a Falklands ribbon on his jacket which made everyone wince.
The ops manager pointed to it and asked, "Bloggs, why have you got a wine-gum stuck on your uniform?"
Brought the house down!

[Yellow Sun]

A pilot I worked with wore medal ribbons that included the DFC. Why not, he’d earned it? Campaign medals, the GSM, these days the LSGC medal and Jubilee medals. Well, I suppose it’s down to the individual and their decision might tell you something about them. I also know a few who opt not to wear medals on any occasion..

As an aside, I once asked a USN colleague about his ribbons. He went through them all but omitted one of them. “What about that one? I asked” “Well” he said, “1965 was declared National Defense Year and everyone in the forces got the ribbon. It’’s called Alive in ‘65! “

YS

[NRU74]

I flew on a transport squadron in the mid-sixties and one of the co-pilots, who'd been a Siggie on Vallettas for a very long time in the Far East, had an AFM and the Oak Leaf on his pre '62 GSM.
He went to BEA and I always thought he'd be perfectly entitled to wear the medals on his uniform.

[renfrew]

BOAC crews would have earned WW2 medals.
Atlantic Star for the Return Ferry Liberator crews.
Africa Star for those operating from Cairo to the Western Desert.
And presumably the Leuchars to Stockholm crews dodging FW190s.Ernest Gann said "This is airline flying?"
Flights from Prestwick to Moscow over enemy territory.
And flying supplies into Malta during the siege.

[megan]

Only time I've ever worn medals is for the ANZAC day march, Monday just gone. Never wore ribbons or medals (my choice) when in the military as our service refused to recognise our Vietnam service and wouldn't allow us to accept decorations made by the US even though we had served in a US unit, one chap finally received his Silver Star some 20 years after the event.

[AlphaMikeTango]

Thank you for all the comments - very interesting and useful.

[ShyTorque]

An excolleague of mine chose to wear medals on his civvy pilot's uniform; I think the company encouraged it. I chose not to wear mine.
Personal choice.

[Mike6567]

After WW2 I was told many airlines mandated the wearing of service ribbons.
It was supposedly to convince passengers they were flying with professionals in charge.
It was also very difficult to even be considered for hiring if you were not a former service pilot.
Of course multi engine pilots had a better chance than single engine pilots as they had better IFR skills.
This PO’d many civil pilots who had flown for RAF Ferry Command and accumulated many hours of ocean flying.
Yes, when I joined BOAC in the late 1960s the ex WW2 captains wore their ribbons and many were highly decorated.

[JW411]

I can also remember several ex-RAF wartime pilots wearing their medals ribbons on their airline uniform and they looked absolutely fine. Mind you, we are talking real campaign ribbons and DFCs etc. One day I was going flying and I met one of my old flight commanders in the South Terminal at Gatwick. He had got a job as a Herald F/O and he was wearing his solitary GSM ribbon on his jacket. I thought it looked ridiculous.

[brakedwell]

I can also remember several ex-RAF wartime pilots wearing their medals ribbons on their airline uniform and they looked absolutely fine. Mind you, we are talking real campaign ribbons and DFCs etc. One day I was going flying and I met one of my old flight commanders in the South Terminal at Gatwick. He had got a job as a Herald F/O and he was wearing his solitary GSM ribbon on his jacket. I thought it looked ridiculous.

He must have been very proud of his ‘medal’ Jock.

[Asturias56]

That´s the point .

Anyone with a significant medal normally isn´t the sort to boast and the people who wear their "insignificant" honours outside of suitable occasions look rather silly

Bit like putting MBE on your Business Card

[Herod]

Agreed about "insignificant" ribbons. I've got a couple of GSM bars "I was there medals", but in 28 years of airline flying never thought for a moment of wearing them. They come out, rather reluctantly, twice a yea.r BoB services and Remembrance, even if only to identify me as a "Cold War Warrior"

[teeteringhead]

Bit like putting MBE on your Business Card I knew someone once who put their post-noms (to be fair, they were DFC AFC) on their cheque book........

[ShyTorque]

Agreed about "insignificant" ribbons. I've got a couple of GSM bars "I was there medals", but in 28 years of airline flying never thought for a moment of wearing them. They come out, rather reluctantly, twice a yea.r BoB services and Remembrance, even if only to identify me as a "Cold War Warrior"

I’ve never worn mine at all since I took my RAF uniform off in 1994. It stays in its little box near the bottom of our display cabinet alongside other stuff connected with that era and with stuff like ammonites, painted eggs and assorted minor silverware. On the other hand, I have a shelf nearer to hand for my more recent motorsport awards, because these days they seem more relevant.

[Asturias56]

" other stuff connected with that era and with stuff like ammonites, painted eggs and assorted minor silverware. "

GOD! I have to ask - what DID you do in the RAF to amass that collection??? Must have been ultra - top secret!!! ;)

[ShyTorque]

I was a part time burglar…. ;)

[Herod]

Like you, ShyTorque, the important awards are on display. Over sixty medals; but they are all for running. You get one for completing the event, not for winning it. The civvy equivalent of the GSM I suppose "I was there".

[Asturias56]

"I was a part time burglar…. " ;)

[777fly]

I began my commercial flying career as a 250 hr sprog second officer in BEA back in the late 60's. A majority of the training captains at that time were ex WW2 military and most wore a row of medal ribbons next to their uniform wings. It was the same in BOAC, so it must have been airline policy in the UK at the time for such decorations to be worn. It certainly impressed me, and no doubt the passengers as well. Many also sported a silver badge called the 'Queens Commendation for Valuable Services in the Air'. I believe that this was awarded for 25 years of airline service or for some other extraordinary airborne achievement. Almost to a man, these very distinguished gentlemen failed to reveal what they had been through, to earn those decorations. One only came to know, from crew room chat, about their wartime exploits. They, and any one who has ever put their life on the line in the service of their country, surely deserved to be recognised for the risk, bravery and service required, when in airline uniform.
The wearing of medal ribbons with civil airline uniform did seem to fade away as the WW2 veterans retired, but I feel that veterans of more recent conflicts deserve the same recognition. And no, I was never in the military.

[XV490]

This thread immediately put me in mind of the character played by James Robertson-Justice in the film Out of the Clouds - from which this still (https://www.imago-images.com/st/0097688435) shows his ribbons, including a DFC.

[Bergerie1]

777fly, I joined BOAC in 1962 and can confirm that it was the same there. There were very many ex RAF pilots in BOAC, including some who had done outstanding things. Many also wore Pathfinder wings. It was normal in those times, and very few talked about what they had done. Brave men, all.

[Asturias56]

" They, and any one who has ever put their life on the line in the service of their country, surely deserved to be recognised for the risk, bravery and service required, when in airline uniform."

They deserved to be recognised but it must be their choice -. If they don't want to wear the ribbons or talk about the past that's their choice - they earned it

[Herod]

An airline pilot's uniform is part of a civilian organisation. No connection with the military. Is there a difference between that and say a supermarket worker? Or are we saying they should wear medals because they are pilots?

[renfrew]

Are you saying a BOAC pilot flying a Mosquito Leuchars to Stockholm,dodging German fighters,was not entitled to a medal?

[Herod]

No, I'm not saying that at all. They were civilian pilots fulfilling a military role. That was an oddball situation. There were very few of them, and they certainly won't be flying in airline uniform today.

[condor17]

Like Triple 7 , joined BEA early '70s , ex cadet . We were a civilian uniformed service , and uniform standards booklet had medal requirements written in . Seem to remember some cabin crew wore them as well .
Up until recently Merchant Air Services were represented at the Cenotaph , often medal ribbon wearing . Not dissimilar to Police , Fire , Merchant Marine , London Transport etc. And most of their representatives are medal ribbon wearing in uniform on Remembrance Day .
Can't remember if Scoutmasters 60 + years ago had ribbons up ?

rgds condor.

[Asturias56]

I worked for a while in an outfit where EVERY pilot over a certain age had served in WW2

They never talked about it - maybe over a beer someone would bring up an old story , or a base, or (more likely) some "character" from the past but it took years to piece together their service - everything from BoB Blenheim's to Tempests & Mosquito. No-one ever, ever, ever wore a medal

[Alan Baker]

It was perfectly normal for uniformed personnel to wear their medal ribbons, whether they were airline pilots, policemen, merchant navy officers etc., just check out some old movies. I always think that the uniform of, say, the captain of the Queen Mary 2 looks a little bare compared with the captains of the original Queen Mary and Queen Eiizabeth.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1242/p1000615_2__774a8f950d0b48718ffad9023780ea3bef8c1d20.jpg
Rig Air-Air Anglia circa 1970. From left Jim Crampton (Joint MD) - RAF Wellington Captain and POW. Dougie Brown- RAF Master Pilot. Brian Sharman - RAF Fighter Pilot post-war. Gerry Fawke RAF Pathfinder (617 Squadron) and Wilbur Wright (Joint MD) RAF Engineer. Wartime exploits rarely if ever mentioned. All sadly departed now. Perhaps not untypical of civil aircrew composition particularly in smaller firms post-war.

[Herod]

OUAQUKGF Ops (https://www.pprune.org/members/240330-ouaqukgf-ops) Blimey, that's a blast from the past. Long before I joined AA (Nov '78).

[draglift]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/623x796/ac771312_1406_4127_88b9_d5cc90a54b02_e5576036411409fa600103f 8d4ca7ec69df06b9d.jpeg
BOAC Crew 1957. Medals clearly visible on several of them.

[Asturias56]

But BOAC WERE the Empire -

[ONE GREEN AND HOPING]

I flew as a sprog short contract F/O with Air Links during 1965. Four Argonauts and the last surviving Hermes. All pilots on individual short contract and three DFC holders that I knew about. Nobody wore ribbons, but there were only about eight captains; ex RAF, RCAF, and RN only, and could be pestered for war time info on their friends and colleagues. Charter pilot buddies of the boss might be on contract to more than one company at the same time. By 1966 I think that the Ministry tightened up a bit on free lanceing. Two mavericks mentioned in the book 'The Flying Tramps'. A couple or three F/Os WW2 CPL only holders as well. As a child passengerI, flew on BEA Vikings out of Northolt to Renfrew, and back. The stewards likely to be wearing medal ribbons in those days- not sure about the stewardesses...