Instructor Course Hours Requirement

[Centaurus]

An instructors course consists of 30 hours dual and 20 hours mutual. It may be more dual than 30 but not less?

Question: Must all the 30 hours dual be with a grade one instructor. If not, then how can it be split up?

2.. Is the 20 hours of mutual actually 20 aircraft flight hours for each pilot. Or is it 10 flight hours per pilot but with both logging it brings the total mutual logged as 20?

In other words is the total flight hours allotted for each student 50 hours or 40 hours?

3. Can someone confirm that during mutual, one pilot logs command time for the whole flight while the other pilot logs co-pilot time.

[Hugh Jarse]

Gidday Centaurus,
I have an old version of CAO 40.1.7 in front of me. In conjunction with that, my logbook and fading memory, I'll try to answer your questions:

1. The 30 hours dual must be with a Grade 1.

2. The 20 hours mutual was 20 aircraft hours with both pilots logging the total time as command. However, for each Airex only one of the pilots may be nominated as PIC (ie on the signout sheet).

3. Both pilots log the whole time as command time (see above).

Regards.

[Icarus2001]

Happy reading...

http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/cao40/400107.pdf

[Centaurus]

Icarus. Thanks a million for the website.

Hugh J. Thanks also for the info. I located an AIC on logging of mutual and discovered that while an instructor student may log command time -if he has been nominated as in command for the flight - the other occupant must log co-pilot time. In other words both mutual students cannot log the same trip as in command.

It raises some interesting questions therefore if the pilot in command should operate from the left or right seat. And as the flight is one trip from starting the engine to stopping the engine, then there cannot be a "changeover" in command half way into the flight.

Also if the nominated PIC is acting as the student and deliberately makes mistakes so that the other mutual pilot acting as instructor is required to "see" the mistakes and talk the "student" through the mistake - then who wears the responsibility if something goes wrong?

Example: Actual PIC for flight deliberately balloons on landing while he is acting as a student. His crash mate who is acting as instructor "takes over" to correct the balloon and makes a hash of it and bends the aircraft on the subsequent heavy landing.

Which pilot will the insurance company target to pay the excess? The PIC who deliberately cocked up the landing? or the co-pilot who tried to recover from the PIC's "error"?

It has always been a grey area when two inexperienced mutual pilots - maybe with only 170 hours each in their log book are "practicing" take off and landing sequences involving deliberate "mistakes".

Same thing when turning base or on final when one trainee instructor deliberately allows the speed to drop below safe speed when simulating an inexperienced student error of judgement.

The lawyers would have a field day if the aircraft pranged due to two inexperienced trainee instructors playing instructor/student games. It really is a case of the blind leading the blind, n'est ce pas?

[I Fly]

The AIC Centaurus is referring to is, I think, AIC H5/98. It is no longer valid.
CAO 40.1.7.4.1B now states "Where mutual practise in accordance with sub-subparagraph 4.1A(b)(ii) is undertaken, one pilot must be nominated as pilot in command but both pilots may log all of the flight time during mutual practise is undertaken as counting towards the flight time requirement".
Note: It does not say in which column you log it. It counts in both (P1 & P2) column.
Normally the trainee playing the 'instructor' would be P1 for that flight or part of that flight and the trainee would be the 'student' and log P2. This is for the very reasons of insurance.

[Icarus2001]

Centaurus there is no issue re left seat or right seat in the types of aircraft under discussion.

The first couple of hours of the Instructor Course are usually spent on RHS familiarisation, which does not appear on CASA's suggested syllabus of training.

[Centaurus]

I Fly. The AIC re logging of flying hours is still on the Air Services Website- so I presume is still active. But I think I may have answered my own question however. The Regs say that there can be only one pilot-in-command. In the case of mutual flying on an instructors course then it is obvious that the pilot not in command must log co-pilot time. End of story.