Helicopter crash in Snowy Mountains

[mickjoebill]

Two fatalities, a dreadful period in rotary aviation in Australia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/two-dead-in-snowy-mountains-helicopter-crash/100965862

"About 11.55pm yesterday, emergency services located the wreckage of a helicopter about 200m east of the Snowy Mountains Highway at Kiandra Flats in New South Wales."

A Helicopter that was the subject of a search at Kiandra last night is fully identified in this post. https://m.facebook.com/groups/998364166847608/permalink/5757817037568940/

Mjb

[Squawk7700]

Many hours of searching took place yesterday for this one. I won't say which aircraft type, however it is a turbine and I'll say that the weather was not great.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1048x747/rescue1_6c51183a6e070d934713c4460cb9f29c0aa5b5e9.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1042x746/rescue2_f4a766351b509b8ef46e27ba1a251d4c4c38aa0a.jpg

[tartare]

MJB - can't see any identifying details in that post.
What type of machine was it?

EDIT: Got it - audio - tks.

[belly tank]

MJB - can't see any identifying details in that post.
What type of machine was it?

EDIT: Got it - audio - tks.

It was a 206L4 VH-PRW

[Squawk7700]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/barbeques-galore-cofounder-killed-in-snowy-mountains-helicopter-crash/news-story/2aec67076857f15c6d20bdc7869ef876

[Mark 9876]

Hi.

I’m a friend of those who perished in the tragedy.

Obviously this is an awful time for the family.

If someone could help clear up some questions here it will be a small comfort. The last flight track for VH-PRW on most sites ends around 11am on Sunday. Flightaware however. shows it between Jindabyne and Khancoban at 3.16 to 3.26 pm (but says “location only”).

Meanwhile RSCU660 took off from Melbourne at 2.42 pm. It then flew straight to a very narrow search site at Kiandra. It did about 10 circuits before departing. The search site closely matches where VH-PRW was ultimately found by Police and Rescue people around 11:50pm.

I am guessing that VH-PRU had some sort of emergency locator like an EPIRB that could have been triggered automatically by g-forces or something?

Does the signal from something like that explain what showed up on the Flightaware site at a time after RSCU660 was already directly en route to the crash site?

Thanks for any help

[Squawk7700]

Hi.

I’m a friend of those who perished in the tragedy.

Obviously this is an awful time for the family.

If someone could help clear up some questions here it will be a small comfort. The last flight track for VH-PRW on most sites ends around 11am on Sunday. Flightaware however. shows it between Jindabyne and Khancoban at 3.16 to 3.26 pm (but says “location only”).

Meanwhile RSCU660 took off from Melbourne at 2.42 pm. It then flew straight to a very narrow search site at Kiandra. It did about 10 circuits before departing. The search site closely matches where VH-PRW was ultimately found by Police and Rescue people around 11:50pm.

I am guessing that VH-PRU had some sort of emergency locator like an EPIRB that could have been triggered automatically by g-forces or something?

Does the signal from something like that explain what showed up on the Flightaware site at a time after RSCU660 was already directly en route to the crash site?

Thanks for any help

Hi Mark,

So sorry to hear of your loss.

Flightaware in that location will show ADSB out signals from the transponder only. Closer to Canberra it will show traffic on Mode Charlie old school traditional radar.

As for the rescue aircraft, I note that as part of that flight it did so a significant amount of flying in the Melbourne Port Phillip Bay Area, either before or after the flight, so be sure to check if it didn’t do that first or the timings will be affected.

*Many* missing aircraft these days are found by either their electronic flight books on an iPhone lr iPad, or via triangulation on mobile phones, so it may be one of those, or ultimately via an ELT or EPIRB signal of which most these days have a GPS location signal built in, so finding their location is almost immediate.

I note that you are referring to Sunday as the last tracked flight, however the search was on Monday. That would suggest that either the helicopter went down on Sunday OR Sunday is when it became out of range of the nearby ADSB receivers and hence the tracking ended. The other curveball is daylight savings which may have meant that the website timing could be incorrect.

[Mark 9876]

Hi Mark,

So sorry to hear of your loss.

Flightaware in that location will show ADSB out signals from the transponder only. Closer to Canberra it will show traffic on Mode Charlie old school traditional radar.

As for the rescue aircraft, I note that as part of that flight it did so a significant amount of flying in the Melbourne Port Phillip Bay Area, either before or after the flight, so be sure to check if it didn’t do that first or the timings will be affected.

*Many* missing aircraft these days are found by either their electronic flight books on an iPhone lr iPad, or via triangulation on mobile phones, so it may be one of those, or ultimately via an ELT or EPIRB signal of which most these days have a GPS location signal built in, so finding their location is almost immediate.

I note that you are referring to Sunday as the last tracked flight, however the search was on Monday. That would suggest that either the helicopter went down on Sunday OR Sunday is when it became out of range of the nearby ADSB receivers and hence the tracking ended. The other curveball is daylight savings which may have meant that the website timing could be incorrect.Hi Squawk and thank you for replying. Much appreciated. My wife was a close friend of of the partner of the pilot for the past 45 years.



The very issue you have raised (extended timeline) is a significant cause of confusion and pain for the family and friends.

I couldn’t post the various screenshots I took - I think perhaps because I’ve not been on this site before today.

The timeline has been most difficult to discern but the following seems clear (to me at least ). I am happy to be corrected but it seems that;


RSCU660 (VH-XND) was in a search pattern over Kiandra on Sunday 3rd not the 4th. (Source - FlightRadar24)
RSCU660 flew direct to that search zone from Melbourne. Time spent out over Port Philip Bay was at the end of the flight not the start. (Source - I clicked the play button and watched the flight path)
As near as I can tell (source - Time Buddy app) the UTC / AEST / Daylight savings issue did not interfere with my timings.
My timings seem to fit with the first post in this string from Mickjoebill at 8.40pm Monday referring to an ABC article that in turn refers to the wreckage being found at 11.50 on Sunday night.

Perhaps I missed something? I don’t know

Thank you for your technical explanations. I will read up on them and endeavour to pass them on.

I am not in the aviation field - but I know it is a meticulous and cautious fraternity I know our loss is your loss too.

[Squawk7700]

Mark I’ve sent you a private message.

[Squawk7700]

The wreckage was found on Monday night at 11:55pm. The opening post of this thread at 2040 I suspect is in UTC time and within an hour of the quoted article being released on the news site after 6am the following morning (Tuesday). I was watching the two aircraft searching on Monday night on flightaware and awoke to the news of the site being located.

Once you check your Private Messages it will make more sense.

[mickjoebill]

For those who live in remote or hilly parts of the country and wish to improve local adsb coverage, Plane Finder app will consider providing you with a adsb reciever and antenna, FOC.
(I qualified)
Other apps may do the same.
My motivation is to help track low flying firefighting aircraft, which can help locals identify a bushfire threat.

It would be helpful if the apps could identify the distance between the aircraft and the reciever for those tracks which are lost.

​​​​​​Mjb

[helispotter]

Prompted by an article in The Canberra Times today on the investigation into the crash of LongRanger VH-PRW, I see ATSB has published an interim report into the accident. It makes for sad reading. I am unable to post the link on the forum as a newbie.

[[email protected]]

Here, direct from the ATSB https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2022/aair/ao-2022-017/

[Doors Off]

So sad. The report is reading like another Richard Green event. Landed safely in declining conditions, safe and sound. Then a D to press.

[Mark 9876]

I read it yesterday. I’m still shaking my head. “Haunting” is a better description than “sad”. Don’t read it before bed time.

[helispotter]

Final report into the crash of VH-PRW has now been released by ATSB:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2022/aair/ao-2022-017

[SASless]

We live and die by our decisions...that is a fact pure and simple.

That behooves One to make the best decisions possible or face the consequences.

Reading accident reports I keep thinking my primary rule I levied upon myself was the "ATT" Rule.

ATT being the notion of priorities in my Decision Making....meaning the priorities were "Ass", "Tin", "Ticket".

In my civilian flying I have never u​n​​​​​necessarily risked myself and passengers, do anything to unnecessarily risk the Aircraft, android not do anything to cause the FAA/CAA to come after my License.

Operating in minimum weather conditions are part of the game we play and we have to be professional about it even if we are just amateur private pilots.

There always risks in flying helicopters....the goal is to minimize those risks as best possible.

Experiencing an IIMC encounter is a very risky event.....the odds of survival are not in your favor....even for highly skilled and professional pilots in single pilot aircraft especially if there is no Autopilot system installed and operating and the Pilot is qualified to operate it andt and fly IFR en-route navigation and approaches.

[SLFMS]

7 Helicopters departed and 6 chose to divert or complete precautionary landings.
last contact with the group was to say intention was to follow the powerlines at 50ft which was advised against.
I’ve got to say if the accident didn’t happen on that day it was inevitable in the long run.

Life’s about the journey not the destination. Sometimes the best stories come out of been stuck somewhere you hadn’t planned to be.