BA CityFlyer driver jailed for dodgy logbook

[Globally Challenged]

Evening Standard (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/pilot-lied-british-airways-job-b991630.html?amp)


A pilot has been jailed for lying about his flying experience to get a job with British Airways (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/british-airways), the Civil Aviation Authority (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/civil-aviation-authority) (CAA) said.

Craig Butfoy, of Matfield, Kent (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/kent), made false claims to get and retain work with British Airways subsidiary BA CityFlyer – based at London City Airport – and former Irish regional airline Stobart Air, between April 2016 and March 2018.

He entered false details and altered entries in his flight logbook so it appeared he was more experienced than he was.

Butfoy was handed a 12-month prison sentence at Snaresbrook Crown Court (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/snaresbrook-crown-court), east London, on Monday after pleading guilty to four charges of fraud at an earlier hearing, according to the CAA.

Jonathan Spence, general counsel at the CAA, said: “The Civil Aviation Authority’s prosecution and the sentence imposed show that offences of this kind are taken very seriously by the Civil Aviation Authority and the courts.

[3wheels]

No mention of licence revocation? If ever there was a case....

[Timmy Tomkins]

More on Sky https://news.sky.com/story/british-airways-pilot-jailed-for-lying-about-his-flying-experience-on-cv-to-get-job-12578731

I woud be interested to know how he was rumbled. I assume he met the standard? MAybe not

[MaximumPete]

Just wondering if your licence gets revoked if you serve a prison sentence of 12 months or more?

[flash8]

Parker Pens are more prolific than one might imagine. I knew one 737 skipper whose alleged experience was pure fabrication as I knew folk in one of his previous companies (Harbour Air, BC) who told me a completely different story. He's now still floating around SE Asia picking up contracts here and there and telling tall tales.

[Herod]

Yes the old P51 hours. In the RAF our logbook had to have a summary filled in at the end of the month, and countersigned. Once a year that went as far as the Stn Cdr. I continued with monthly summaries as a civilian, but more for my own interest than any requirement.

[macdo]

Years ago we had a guy who had logged loads of mil flying, got in, was capable. I believe he got busted when he got a command and someone who should have known him from their previous life didn't. Turned out he was an ATCo and had logged the hours from the tower. CAA prosecuted and I believe he went to jail. History repeats itself when people forget.

[MartinB738]

Hi there is an article in The Times (UK) today on this. Basically it says Ii've removed his name) A pilot who lied about his flying experience to get a job with British Airways was found out after pressing a button that “no qualified pilot would do”, sources have told The Times.

The pilot who has been jailed for fraud, worked for BA CityFlyer, a British Airways subsidiary, and Stobart Air, a former Aer Lingus subsidiary, between April 2016 and March 2018. He worked for each airline for about a year. He obtained work as a pilot after entering false details and altering entries in his flight logbook so it appeared that he was more experienced than he was, Snaresbrook crown court in east London was told.

He was jailed for 12 months on Monday after pleading guilty to four charges of fraud and two breaches of the Air Navigation Order 2016. Sources said that BA CityFlyer bosses became concerned about him after an incident in Switzerland in which he “pressed a button on the ground that no qualified pilot would” and they launched an internal investigation.

My question is, what was the button that the pilot pushed, that no pilot would touch??

[alfaman]

No mention of licence revocation? If ever there was a case....
From what I've read, it's not that clear whether he ever had a licence that could be revoked...

[Contact Approach]

If he’s been flying for Cityflyer and Stobart then he clearly knew how to fly and was type rated so the whole pressing the wrong button thing doesn’t make any real sense??

[WHBM]

If I'm not mistaken Stobart (alias Aer Arann) and Cityflyer never had a common type in this time, the Stobart E190 didn't come until afterwards, so must have purported to have two type ratings on the Embraer jet and the ATR turboprop. All Stobart's fleet, and their AOC, were, I believe, registered in Ireland, not the UK, so wonder what the IAA had to say about this.

May well have flown me once or twice.

[Downwind_Left]

If I'm not mistaken Stobart (alias Aer Arann) and Cityflyer never had a common type in this time, the Stobart E190 didn't come until afterwards, so must have purported to have two type ratings on the Embraer jet and the ATR turboprop. All Stobart's fleet, and their AOC, were, I believe, registered in Ireland, not the UK, so wonder what the IAA had to say about this.

May well have flown me once or twice.

He got a job on the 190 for Stobart after Cityflyer got rid of him. At the time Stobart were starting an operation on behalf of Cityflyer. I guess someone noticed fairly quickly when the reference request came in.

[WHBM]

He got a job on the 190 for Stobart after Cityflyer got rid of him. At the time Stobart were starting an operation on behalf of Cityflyer. I guess someone noticed fairly quickly when the reference request came in.
Says he worked for Cityflyer, then Stobart, from April 2016 to March 2018, about a year with each. The first Stobart Embraer was delivered June 2018. It's a bit difficult having a story about hours not adding up when the reported dates don't appear to add up.

I see Cityflyer say he was "fully qualified", so presumably it is the hours that are key rather than not qualified at all.

[stilton]

Hi there is an article in The Times (UK) today on this. Basically it says Ii've removed his name) A pilot who lied about his flying experience to get a job with British Airways was found out after pressing a button that “no qualified pilot would do”, sources have told The Times.

The pilot who has been jailed for fraud, worked for BA CityFlyer, a British Airways subsidiary, and Stobart Air, a former Aer Lingus subsidiary, between April 2016 and March 2018. He worked for each airline for about a year. He obtained work as a pilot after entering false details and altering entries in his flight logbook so it appeared that he was more experienced than he was, Snaresbrook crown court in east London was told.

He was jailed for 12 months on Monday after pleading guilty to four charges of fraud and two breaches of the Air Navigation Order 2016. Sources said that BA CityFlyer bosses became concerned about him after an incident in Switzerland in which he “pressed a button on the ground that no qualified pilot would” and they launched an internal investigation.

My question is, what was the button that the pilot pushed, that no pilot would touch??


Definitely the ‘only fake pilots push this’ button

[Atlantic Explorer]

Another one been caught flying G-BIRO.

Had an example of this in my old company. He even had the brass neck to be lecturing others how it should be done in the Flight Deck. I had my suspicions about a couple of others but could never prove it.

[Sleeve Wing]

It's been going on for at least 50 years !
I suspected one in the dim and distant when I was a young captain. All his BS just didn't ring true and, although he was quick, knew the manuals inside out and could programme the A/P like a genius, his basic manual flying skills were, well, basic. I've had PPL aeros students who were far more aware of what the aeroplane was doing.
He's presently doing a prison term for something unrelated !

[First.officer]

He got caught because he pushed his luck claiming to have worked for a company who didn't even have the type back in 2016

I do know this guy, worked at the same company I did many moons past (is actually as I recall a nice chap) - and obviously in no way, shape or from can condone (or understand!) what he has done - but the outfit we both worked at had a Embraer Lineage 1000 back in 2010, and think he may well have been on that ship there also, prior to that I think he was on Hawkers (HS125).

[flash8]

From what I've read, it's not that clear whether he ever had a licence that could be revoked...The vast majority of Parker pens hold the appropriate licences, type ratings and often experience, it is the exaggeration of that experience or creation of fake hours that becomes their downfall. Virtually all of them could have got where they are a little/much later if they'd not decided on 'shortcuts'.

[WHBM]

If you have the licences and type ratings, I am wondering what actual law is broken that leads to a significant custodial event. Sure, you have breached your employers' policy on experience, told an untruth to them about your hours, and are correctly dismissed for that. Cityflyer said he had the correct qualifications. Pulling the "wrong knob" on the ground doesn't normally lead to this.

[212man]

If you have the licences and type ratings, I am wondering what actual law is broken that leads to a significant custodial event. Sure, you have breached your employers' policy on experience, told an untruth to them about your hours, and are correctly dismissed for that. Cityflyer said he had the correct qualifications. Pulling the "wrong knob" on the ground doesn't normally lead to this.
Article 231: CAP393REFERENCE_ONLY.pdf (caa.co.uk) (https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393REFERENCE_ONLY.pdf)

[what next]

... that leads to a significant custodial event...

I was wondering about that too. One year (without probation?) is quite a lot for what he did. Compare that for example to the case of Learjet D-CMMM (https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120915-0&lang=de): A pilot with multiple fake identites and fake licenses and no typerating crashed in Denmark due to mishandling the fuel system of his plane whilst performing an illegal commercial flight in an unregistered, unmaintained, uninsured plane, therby causing bodily harm to his passenger and endangering the safety of others. All that whilst flying single pilot in a multi pilot plane. Which must be about the maximum number of simultaneous offences that a single person can commit during a 30 minute flight. He was sentenced to 10 months in Denmark.

[FullWings]

Many years ago I was peripherally involved with the employment of someone like this for light aircraft duties. The BS was pretty persuasive, and he could kind of fly, but after some weeks he was asked to leave as it became obvious that he couldn’t do the job, even after a fair amount of training. Fast forward a few months and he was seen instructing BCPL students at Elstree; the CAA eventually caught up with him and it turned out he didn’t even have a PPL! I’m not sure but I think that resulted in a custodial sentence for endangerment.

[olster]

Yup. Long haul Walter Mitty type gets fired from very well known uk long haul airline for logbook falsification. No prosecution as the ceo a very well known Uk entrepreneur with prior links to the record industry didn’t want adverse publicity. Some years later miscreant reappears on a training course for wannabe instructors working for well known but now defunct holiday airline. You couldn’t invent this sh1t or the chutzpah to carry it off.

[DP.]

If you have the licences and type ratings, I am wondering what actual law is broken that leads to a significant custodial event.

Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.

[Downwind_Left]

Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.

Indeed, especially if he did not meet the hours/experience requirement to fulfil the role of a Captain, as set out in the airlines operations manual and aircraft insurance requirements.

[C-141Starlifter]

Many years ago…prospective pilot candidate was being interviewed for a 737 FO position in the US. The hiring board, specifically one current airline Capt, has some questions about the candidate’s logbook. The questions related to time logged on a certain aircraft tail number. The candidate held to his story. Finally, the board Captain had enough and called him a liar. Reason…the hiring board Capt owned said aircraft and had owned it for the previous 20 years! Busted…

[WHBM]

Finally, the board Captain had enough and called him a liar. Reason…the hiring board Capt owned said aircraft and had owned it for the previous 20 years! Busted…
Well that's how it should be. The employing company needs to do their own Due Diligence on applicants, particularly for key positions like airline captains.

Given that something outside the licences and type ratings (which apparently were in order) is seen as sufficiently significant to lead to a serious jail sentence if incorrect, I would expect the operators HR department to have a very serious and thorough checking process, which appears not to have taken place. I hope the board of the operators involved has asked some uncomfortable questions of those who have this responsibility at their company.

[Chiefttp]

A prior poster asked what will become of him after his prison sentence is over. I know in the US, if a pilot commits a felony crime he loses his license.

[parkfell]

Globespan which went bust in 2009, hired a FO, knowing that he had been convicted on Parker Pen flying.
It first came to light when ‘Gibbo’ was going for promotion at Airtours, claiming military flying time based on actual flights carried out. The CAA revoked his licence, & he began again from scratch. The story broke again in the Daily Express whilst at GSM. Google search will reveal further details.

Had the equivalent crime been committed in medicine, it is doubtful if the GMC would ever have restored his name to the Register?

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

There was a certain UK Police Air Support Unit who "befriended" a helicopter pilot. Said pilot then talked his way into flying their helicopter - then to their embarrassment it was discovered that he didn't have a commercial licence. He was prosecuted (arguably on incorrect grounds) but incredibly, found not guilty!

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/51623-how-not-become-police-pilot.html

[Timmy Tomkins]

There doesn't seem to be any mention of him having gone through the training system. I assume he met their standard or he wouldn't have been on line surely?

Mind you in a previous airline I flew with an FO who was, shall we say, "sub-optimal" and claimed much of his non airline experience was in Alaska. I always had my suspicions, but he got through the system.

[Cough]

Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.

And when he comes out - with an offence like that will he be able to apply/receive an airside pass?

[alfaman]

The vast majority of Parker pens hold the appropriate licences, type ratings and often experience, it is the exaggeration of that experience or creation of fake hours that becomes their downfall. Virtually all of them could have got where they are a little/much later if they'd not decided on 'shortcuts'.
Indeed - but the CAA can only revoke a licence that they've issued. If he's gained that experience elsewhere, the best they can hope for is a successful civil prosecution.

[Consol]

Apparently he turned the lights off according to the Telegraph ?

But suspicions concerning Butfoy's performance were roused when he apparently plunged a jet into darkness while stationed at an airport in France, the Telegraph understands.
Selected ground power off when the apu wasn't running? I've never done that.

[Tom Bangla]

What Next

"He was sentenced to 10 months in Denmark"

That's certainly a novel punishment.

[Falci]

I'd urge all of us to try to find out what this button was as, with all my definitely not fradulent experience I have no idea what such a button could be and am genuinely concerned someone might find me out I might push it in error.

[Globally Challenged]

I deployed the rubber jungle once in a Challenger as I was in a rush and the APU start knob was right next to the pax oxy…. Glad I didn’t get sent to prison for it 🤪

[Magplug]

When airlines don't need pilots the CVs go directly in the bin. When it finally dawns on the management that they are short they can't get candidates into operating seats fast enough. Human nature says when you have your back to the wall, the easiest option is usually the first choice.

Strangely, I have never heard of a Chief Pilot or CAA licensing officer ever going to jail for failing to exercise due diligence!

[exeng]

deployed the rubber jungle once in a Challenger as I was in a rush and the APU start knob was right next to the pax oxy…. Glad I didn’t get sent to prison for it 🤪
Globally Challenged is online now Report Post (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=11210073)
Quote (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11210073) Quick Reply (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11210073)

I did the same on a classic 747 many years ago. Having just got back into the seat after a couple of hours kip on a long range to JNB (I had literally just got back in the seat). A member of Cabin Crew asked for first aid oxygen. Well I moved the wrong switch and the whole lot came down, including of course the automatic announcement.

It was then that I learned there are some switches you can move, but if you think you have moved the wrong switch, or moved the switch in error, you can just move it back again - not so with the pax oxy switch.

An interview without tea and biccies for me back at LHR - and rightly so.


Kind regards
Exeng

[HS125]

deployed the rubber jungle once in a Challenger as I was in a rush and the APU start knob was right next to the pax oxy…. Glad I didn’t get sent to prison for it 🤪

I'm really not buying the 'wrong button' angle, unless he frequently did it or tried something really out there like blowing a fire bottle?

I was flying a CL30 with a larger gentleman (now retired so I don't suppose he'll mind be recounting) who had some difficulty getting into the flight deck unless the seat was fully down and aft due to his stature. We're ready to go with a full house, and he kicked the pax oxy switch getting into the right seat :ugh: In the end the passengers stowed the masks and appreciated the impromptu free teambuilding exercise! Large man was pissed and reached for the logbook to see who was in the seat last!

On another occasion I grabbed the APU switch instead of the right engine switch, Incase you're wondering that'll shut down the APU. Embarrassing. My point being is that we all will make a mistake at some point so I'm thinking that the 'Wrong Button' angle has to be either part of a pattern of abstract behavior, grossly negligent or, they knew something was up and used it to set the wheels in motion.

[compressor stall]

The look on someone’s face who is pressing the APU off button without external power, then realises as it’s pressed in and has the presence of mind not to release it…

stuck there like the kid with his finger in the Dutch dyke.

[Starbear]

I did the same on a classic 747 many years ago. Having just got back into the seat after a couple of hours kip on a long range to JNB (I had literally just got back in the seat). A member of Cabin Crew asked for first aid oxygen. Well I moved the wrong switch and the whole lot came down, including of course the automatic announcement.

It was then that I learned there are some switches you can move, but if you think you have moved the wrong switch, or moved the switch in error, you can just move it back again - not so with the pax oxy switch.

An interview without tea and biccies for me back at LHR - and rightly so.


Kind regards
Exeng
Haha....when I used to do a bit of tech instructing on Boeing , using real a/c on ramp with new joiners, I always referred to that as the P45 switch. However final laugh on me as not so long ago I disconnected GPU on A350 with no APU available (in simulator) on transition course. Embarrassed? Of course but turned out to be hugely funny as my fellow instructor was "literally" histrionically banging his head on the table screaming did you just do that? Yes I said in a quiet and controlled manner. I was also aware of our instructor on the jump seat almost peeing himself at the whole thing. When things quieted a bit I said to distraught colleague, give it 5 minutes and incidentally no one actually died. (one of my favourite catch alls. There was a bit more to the story but that will do for now.

Incidentally , I believe that I know all about the character Olster referred to in post 24: "Long haul Walter Mitty type gets fired from very well known uk long haul airline for logbook falsification. No prosecution as the ceo a very well known Uk entrepreneur with prior links to the record industry didn’t want adverse publicity. Some years later miscreant reappears on a training course for wannabe instructors working for well known but now defunct holiday airline.".

If in fact he was the same character, he was interviewed by said "holiday airline" management who had been tipped off and asked him outright if it was true. Wisely he confessed. Unwisely they gave him a second chance. I say unwisely because although very capable, he went on to confirming what a total a*se of an individual he clearly was. Instead of keeping a low profile and quietly beavering away and serving his time, to regain some credibility, within months of joining, he applied for everything going and could not be more high profile if he tried. This included applications for Management and Training positions as well BALPA council chair to boot. His original misdemeanour was actually "boosting" P1 hours to achieve level required for command upgrade course.

[ChiefT]

I've seen several doubtful flying hours and promotions to Captain related to the noticeably youthful age of the pilots. It happens repeatedly as long as there is no centralized register of the authorities, where airlines can check the qualification. It's sad, but nowadays trust becomes increasingly a risk for airlines and it's clients....

[Jackjones1]

Had to deal with the aftermath of a rubber jungle deployment on a BA jumbo at LHR Terminal 1 on departure.... cabin crew had asked for passenger oxygen but fo selected emergency instead as switches were very close to each other.

Cotton gloves, cleaning wipes & talcum powder seemed to be forgotten as BA in their wisdom decided to leave the passengers on, stowing them always reminded me of trying to get 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound bag & of course with a lot of people watching not easy.

Until they are deployed you don’t really realise just how many & in so many places there are!

[Chiefttp]

As far as the switch “no pilot would press” could it have been the gear retract override? I realize pressing it does not retract the gear, but wouldn’t the attempt to press it or demonstrate its purpose warrant questioning?

[blind pew]

One of my first instructors boasted he was an airforce pilot, he was actually an assistant on a Suffolk airfield but that didn’t stop him from working for the regulator. Last I heard was from a Concorde trainer who had overheard him boasting that he flew spits…which was challenged as obviously too young. Real Walter Mitty.
As for wrong switches I only did it once and that was during an approach at night through some nasty weather when I was ordered to put the engine anti icing on, got the right switches but turned them off. Only noticed when I was ordered to turn them off so turned one on, waited to see if said engine stopped then did the second.

[Magplug]

It appears Craig Aaron David Butfoy has had a number of aviation related company directorships over the last 10-15 years. Most have been dissolved.

[Don't sink]

I'd urge all of us to try to find out what this button was as, with all my definitely not fradulent experience I have no idea what such a button could be and am genuinely concerned someone might find me out I might push it in error.
safest thing is...don't touch anything, let the other guy do it and just monitor

[DownIn3Green]

Hi there is an article in The Times (UK) today on this. Basically it says Ii've removed his name) A pilot who lied about his flying experience to get a job with British Airways was found out after pressing a button that “no qualified pilot would do”, sources have told The Times.

The pilot who has been jailed for fraud, worked for BA CityFlyer, a British Airways subsidiary, and Stobart Air, a former Aer Lingus subsidiary, between April 2016 and March 2018. He worked for each airline for about a year. He obtained work as a pilot after entering false details and altering entries in his flight logbook so it appeared that he was more experienced than he was, Snaresbrook crown court in east London was told.

He was jailed for 12 months on Monday after pleading guilty to four charges of fraud and two breaches of the Air Navigation Order 2016. Sources said that BA CityFlyer bosses became concerned about him after an incident in Switzerland in which he “pressed a button on the ground that no qualified pilot would” and they launched an internal investigation.

My question is, what was the button that the pilot pushed, that no pilot would touch??
My question exactly. What button?

[sonoftrafalgar]

Globespan which went bust in 2009, hired a FO, knowing that he had been convicted on Parker Pen flying.
It first came to light when ‘Gibbo’ was going for promotion at Airtours, claiming military flying time based on actual flights carried out. The CAA revoked his licence, & he began again from scratch. The story broke again in the Daily Express whilst at GSM. Google search will reveal further details.

Had the equivalent crime been committed in medicine, it is doubtful if the GMC would ever have restored his name to the Register?


This one now works for a friendly low fares airline.

I wonder if they know of his CRIMINAL history?

The Daily Express article is titled:“Cheating pilot’s new career is flying high”

[AirportPlanner1]

A few folks saying the dates don’t line up for Stobart because they didn’t get the E190 until later.

They had E195s during the period reported based at Southend.

[parkfell]

It appears Craig Aaron David Butfoy has had a number of aviation related company directorships over the last 10-15 years. Most have been dissolved.

Never a good sign…

[G-ARZG]

Amusingly, several of them included the word 'Atmosphere' - never a good sign, as those with memories of the ongoing imaginary airline saga with that name will attest

[BoeingDriver99]

Perhaps the CAA could do some regulation by having an anonymous helpline or somesuch? Or via this link:

https://www.centreforaviationpsychology.com/other-services

Could concern about a colleague fall under those kinds of services? I have flown with people who IMHO couldn't have passed the ATPLs and skills tests to get them RHS on a jet. Makes you wonder...

[WHBM]

Perhaps the CAA could do some regulation by having an anonymous helpline or somesuch? Or via this link:

https://www.centreforaviationpsychology.com/other-services

Could concern about a colleague fall under those kinds of services? I have flown with people who IMHO couldn't have passed the ATPLs and skills tests to get them RHS on a jet. Makes you wonder...

The trouble with "anonymous" lines is they get used, in some cases far more, by those who have a grudge or a personal agenda rather than a genuine concern. Anyone who has been associated with such operations will know the extent of "he got the promotion I should have got", or "he made off with my girlfriend" situations, let alone serial reporters who do multiple reports over time. HMRC have certainly found this with business competitors reporting VAT evasion. And this sort of thing does not fit well with investigating organisations who have a bureaucratic and formalised approach, particularly public organisations where the procedure all has to be something published. Do we stand pilots down while things are being checked out ? The number of anonymous reports would skyrocket.

[Mr Fahrenheit]

THE TRUE STORY

The guy was grassed up.

I believe the CAA used their power to make an example of someone and deflect any accountability or responsibility in the industry that is known and rifled with 'finding a way'. Whether its the so-called 'feedback' from all the ATPL schools, yes where all the students are knowingly given the question bank and answers to all the ATPL questions. Does that mean all pilots are criminals and fraudsters from the outset for knowingly cheating ? Who hasn't 'Parker Penned' their logbook even if by 1 flight or 1 hour. Its still a crime. Is everyone's logbook fully accounted for and perfectly correct - if not its still a crime. Apparently 'everyone' glorifies their CV and application form right according to legal teams - Wrong, that's still a crime too, it doesn't matter how many people do it, it's still a fraudulent crime, according to the law and the CAA.

So what happened. C had 10 years of experience in the corporate jet world, covering, Europe, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Africa and North Atlantic. Qualified as a Captain but left as there were no left seat jobs, as in passed his command line check as well as command ground course. BA Cityflyer were advertising for F O jobs that required 500 hours. He applied, passed the sim check, was offered the job. He did not have the aircraft weight behind him when asked about Capt opportunities but they said if he could pass the left seat sim check which was with a BA 777 Captain, then he could have the left seat job and they would waiver the weight restriction and if he failed he could still have the FO job. Who wouldn't take that opportunity? So he did, passed with flying colours, got the job, passed line training and signed off with, "he'll be an asset to the company" ! So yes, he applied for a First Officer and it was BACF that put him forward to DEC.

The button - he pressed was the transfer of APU to GPU on an Embrarer EJET, what they didn't tell you is the GPU malfunctioned and the lights went out in the Cabin for a few seconds, then the power was transferred back to APU. All this was during a bright sunny day in Zurich. The CAA's barrister reported to the judge, "the plane plunged into darkness."



THE LOGBOOK - During the internal investigation after the whistle blower, BACF told C to remove all his PICUS P1 hours saying they don't count as P1 hours. This was charge 1 - Knowingly Altering the logbook). A few weeks later C was told to put them back after BACF admitted that the hours could be used after all towards P1 hours. As he couldnt exactly remember 1000 odd flights, the equivalent hours were re-entered into the logbook to the best of his knowledge. This was charge no.2- Knowingly falsyfying flights, NOW because it was his hand that altered and entered the logbook entries, it was a fraudulent crime even though he was told to do it by the Head of Flight Operations, a training Capt himself. During that process, Excel, Data, Sort muddled up the logbook where the data sort range scrolled off the screen and was omitted from the sort process. It didn't seem to matter in court, but that is what led to the Stobart charge, them claiming the logbook was incorrect even though he had done a year as Captain at BACF. Charge no. 3



THE FAKE REFERENCE - C was unable to get a reference from his previous Corporate Jet company he worked for as in their words, "he was not an employee, only a contractor". Therefore C wrote his own reference from his own company and signed it in someone else's name. The actual information was not false. Charge no. 4



THE APPLICATION -. Some background first. Some airlines applications have columns asking for Captain/Command/PIC hours to include P1, PICUS, SPIC, PIC hours all in the same box/category. Ryanair for example.

Because C put all his P1 hours in one box like the example above, he was told that, that was the false representation. (3 month later BA now advertises their hour requirement "excluding PICUS hours")



THE FAKE CERTIFICATE - C did a command course with his previous company. The certificate was lost and it was replicated to the best of his knowledge albeit the company and dates were wrong. Even though the core information was correct, eg he had passed a Command Course, because it was not the original document, it was fraud, even though he had completed a Command course. Charge 5



So there it is folks. C's license was revoked forever and he will never fly again or get an airside pass. On top of that, all the tabloids and press published the story to make new and what the CAA told them, not how it was, all to make the news without all the facts. He has to live with that too, and then the CAA's Investigation Officer did a documentary on the BBC with their somewhat glorified and twisted version of the story to make them look good.

Fake it until you make it is a load of nonsense, it should be fake it until your caught or banged up if you think its worth the risk.


Now with the facts you can now make your own conclusions. It doesn't change what's happened, he has had the ultimate punishment of being locked up and never to fly again. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.” Or criticise only if you have never done any wrong, even if its just the case you havent been found out yet or caught, because that doesnt count. Even infidelity down route...! LOL

[pilotmike]

Thanks for letting us know. I'm puzzled - it's taken you a year to give us your thoughts…. where have you been for the past year?

Is this 'inside' knowledge? Have you been out of / away from / not allowed internet access? A bit of 'time out'? Couldn't you have used a Parker pen to put down your thoughts?

It must feel good to get these idea 'out' after being having them 'locked up' for the past year.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Who hasn't 'Parker Penned' their logbook even if by 1 flight or 1 hour.

​​​​​​​Me, and lots of other people, I’d imagine.

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

Nice try Mr Fahrenheit!

[megan]

I confess to having logged what officially would be considered P-51 time, I used to do a lot of maintenance runs, some were short and some quite lengthy, my reason for putting it in the log was for my own record should a question arise in an investigation as to who was responsible, maintenance of course had their records signing off work, but no record of the pilot conducting the run, anyone who thinks ground running a helicopter is not flying, as officialdom decrees, should have another think.

[Fortissimo]

THE FAKE REFERENCE - C was unable to get a reference from his previous Corporate Jet company he worked for as in their words, "he was not an employee, only a contractor". Therefore C wrote his own reference from his own company and signed it in someone else's name. The actual information was not false. Charge no. 4

Writing your own reference and signing it in someone else's name is, by any definition, fraudulent. "The actual information was not false" is valid only in the opinion of the person writing and signing the so-called reference. How would you feel if the person you have decided to employ for childcare or similar had used a self-written reference to convince you they were the right one for the job? What might they have omitted that would otherwise cast things in a very different light?

THE FAKE CERTIFICATE - C did a command course with his previous company. The certificate was lost and it was replicated to the best of his knowledge albeit the company and dates were wrong. Even though the core information was correct, eg he had passed a Command Course, because it was not the original document, it was fraud, even though he had completed a Command course. Charge 5

Correct, it was fraud again. I gained a 2:2 degree in economics at Oxford Brookes University in 1997 but I lost the certificate, so I replicated it to the best of my knowledge and managed to remember I achieved a 2:1 degree in PPE at Oxford in 1996. I had passed my degree, which is correct, but I just got the date and the university wrong. Nothing dodgy about it at all, and it would have been fine if I hadn't been grassed up.

Is it time for a discussion about integrity, honesty, trust, etc. before you find the chap doing your vasectomy gained his surgical qualifications with Kwik-Fit?

[Bora Bora]

Wow, a lot of puritans here.If things are what Fahrenheit alleges, I have sympathy. How many of those reading this thread would not have done the same thing in most of the instances mentioned. Maybe not a fake reference no, much of the other stuff… be honest now. Wasn’t all that unreasonable, wasn’t with ill-intent.

And who here hasn’t messed up the APU/GPU transfer? Anybody with a fair amount of hours who says they haven’t, is a big fat liar!

Not saying this account of Fahrenheit was all there was to it, but if it was…I’d be happy to shrug my shoulders and move on. Not the CAA clearly.

And pilotmike: that post is really bad taste.

[Just a Grunt]

THE TRUE STORY

The guy was grassed up.

I believe the CAA used their power to make an example of someone and deflect any accountability or responsibility in the industry that is known and rifled with 'finding a way'. Whether its the so-called 'feedback' from all the ATPL schools, yes where all the students are knowingly given the question bank and answers to all the ATPL questions. Does that mean all pilots are criminals and fraudsters from the outset for knowingly cheating ? Who hasn't 'Parker Penned' their logbook even if by 1 flight or 1 hour. Its still a crime. Is everyone's logbook fully accounted for and perfectly correct - if not its still a crime. Apparently 'everyone' glorifies their CV and application form right according to legal teams - Wrong, that's still a crime too, it doesn't matter how many people do it, it's still a fraudulent crime, according to the law and the CAA.

So what happened. C had 10 years of experience in the corporate jet world, covering, Europe, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Africa and North Atlantic. Qualified as a Captain but left as there were no left seat jobs, as in passed his command line check as well as command ground course. BA Cityflyer were advertising for F O jobs that required 500 hours. He applied, passed the sim check, was offered the job. He did not have the aircraft weight behind him when asked about Capt opportunities but they said if he could pass the left seat sim check which was with a BA 777 Captain, then he could have the left seat job and they would waiver the weight restriction and if he failed he could still have the FO job. Who wouldn't take that opportunity? So he did, passed with flying colours, got the job, passed line training and signed off with, "he'll be an asset to the company" ! So yes, he applied for a First Officer and it was BACF that put him forward to DEC.

The button - he pressed was the transfer of APU to GPU on an Embrarer EJET, what they didn't tell you is the GPU malfunctioned and the lights went out in the Cabin for a few seconds, then the power was transferred back to APU. All this was during a bright sunny day in Zurich. The CAA's barrister reported to the judge, "the plane plunged into darkness."



THE LOGBOOK - During the internal investigation after the whistle blower, BACF told C to remove all his PICUS P1 hours saying they don't count as P1 hours. This was charge 1 - Knowingly Altering the logbook). A few weeks later C was told to put them back after BACF admitted that the hours could be used after all towards P1 hours. As he couldnt exactly remember 1000 odd flights, the equivalent hours were re-entered into the logbook to the best of his knowledge. This was charge no.2- Knowingly falsyfying flights, NOW because it was his hand that altered and entered the logbook entries, it was a fraudulent crime even though he was told to do it by the Head of Flight Operations, a training Capt himself. During that process, Excel, Data, Sort muddled up the logbook where the data sort range scrolled off the screen and was omitted from the sort process. It didn't seem to matter in court, but that is what led to the Stobart charge, them claiming the logbook was incorrect even though he had done a year as Captain at BACF. Charge no. 3



THE FAKE REFERENCE - C was unable to get a reference from his previous Corporate Jet company he worked for as in their words, "he was not an employee, only a contractor". Therefore C wrote his own reference from his own company and signed it in someone else's name. The actual information was not false. Charge no. 4



THE APPLICATION -. Some background first. Some airlines applications have columns asking for Captain/Command/PIC hours to include P1, PICUS, SPIC, PIC hours all in the same box/category. Ryanair for example.

Because C put all his P1 hours in one box like the example above, he was told that, that was the false representation. (3 month later BA now advertises their hour requirement "excluding PICUS hours")



THE FAKE CERTIFICATE - C did a command course with his previous company. The certificate was lost and it was replicated to the best of his knowledge albeit the company and dates were wrong. Even though the core information was correct, eg he had passed a Command Course, because it was not the original document, it was fraud, even though he had completed a Command course. Charge 5



So there it is folks. C's license was revoked forever and he will never fly again or get an airside pass. On top of that, all the tabloids and press published the story to make new and what the CAA told them, not how it was, all to make the news without all the facts. He has to live with that too, and then the CAA's Investigation Officer did a documentary on the BBC with their somewhat glorified and twisted version of the story to make them look good.

Fake it until you make it is a load of nonsense, it should be fake it until your caught or banged up if you think its worth the risk.


Now with the facts you can now make your own conclusions. It doesn't change what's happened, he has had the ultimate punishment of being locked up and never to fly again. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.” Or criticise only if you have never done any wrong, even if its just the case you havent been found out yet or caught, because that doesnt count. Even infidelity down route...! LOL

Erm, yet the judge gave him 12 months in the bin? If this were truly the factual basis for sentence, then there’s no way he would have gone in.

This “true” version sounds like it’s had several coats of varnish. The poor chap purportedly has an excuse for everything, but the fake reference and command cert are what stand out for me as marking him out as a dead set fraudster - and I’ve had the dubious honour to act for plenty of his ilk.

[Blue_Circle]

Erm, yet the judge gave him 12 months in the bin? If this were truly the factual basis for sentence, then there’s no way he would have gone in.

This “true” version sounds like it’s had several coats of varnish. The poor chap purportedly has an excuse for everything, but the fake reference and command cert are what stand out for me as marking him out as a dead set fraudster - and I’ve had the dubious honour to act for plenty of his ilk.
Having had a brush with a professional fraudster, they always have a plausible excuse.

[Impress to inflate]

I was off to the Sim for my six monthly check ride on the other other side of the world, while in the front galley talking to the crew, the captain appeared from the cockpit from the BA 320 for a "comfort break", the crew pointed to me and said "he's also crew but flys helicopters". The captain said hello and we had a little chat. I said, "where did you learn to fly, OAT at Oxford ?" No no he protested, "I'm ex RAF" while looking down his nose at me. I pressed further and asked what he flew in the RAF, fighter, transport ? None of these, University Air Squadron !!!!!!! God give me strength

[DaveReidUK]

I was off to the Sim for my six monthly check ride on the other other side of the world, while in the front galley talking to the crew, the captain appeared from the cockpit from the BA 320 for a "comfort break", the crew pointed to me and said "he's also crew but flys helicopters". The captain said hello and we had a little chat. I said, "where did you learn to fly, OAT at Oxford ?" No no he protested, "I'm ex RAF" while looking down his nose at me. I pressed further and asked what he flew in the RAF, fighter, transport ? None of these, University Air Squadron !!!!!!! God give me strength

And he was in command of a commercial airliner? What is the world coming to?

[CW247]

C got caught. Probably thousands like him out there. Some way more competent than their "legit" peers, some probably not. I guarantee each and every one of us knows someone who is not too dissimilar. Think about the pressure one is under to secure a job every time a daft Middle Eastern or Asian airline asks for a reference with a specific wording. Airline no longer around? Ummm.

Some years ago, a relatively large UK Tour Operator airline went bust, lets just say that a lot of references where written by friends for friends (after losing their jobs). What of that?

The industry is broken, regulators need to play a bigger part in tracking hours and jobs. The Chinese now do, with their centralised pilot licensing app. The airlines use an API to upload pilot hours to the authority. We laugh and mock them, but on this front they are years ahead.

[Fortissimo]

Some years ago, a relatively large UK Tour Operator airline went bust, lets just say that a lot of references where written by friends for friends (after losing their jobs). What of that?

If the reference was along the lines of “I am a B777 TRE and supervised Capt Fred’s command upgrade in July 2014. He operates to a high standard…” etc. that is a personal reference and will be treated accordingly.

if the reference was (eg) “I can confirm Capt Fred was employed by UK Tour Operator as a B777 captain for the period … and the company had no cause for concern about his performance at any stage” and it is signed off for UK Tour Operator when the signatory has no authority to act on behalf of the company then it is fraudulent.

If you use a false instrument to gain a pecuniary advantage (in this case employment), you commit fraud. The fact that others have got away with it does not make it right.

If you want an example of self-provided references conveniently omitting ‘unhelpful’ information with disastrous consequences, check out the NTSB report into the Atlas Air B767 accident in Feb 2019.

[AI23B]

Enough time to see the Tivoli gardens and the mermaid?

[rolling20]

I was off to the Sim for my six monthly check ride on the other other side of the world, while in the front galley talking to the crew, the captain appeared from the cockpit from the BA 320 for a "comfort break", the crew pointed to me and said "he's also crew but flys helicopters". The captain said hello and we had a little chat. I said, "where did you learn to fly, OAT at Oxford ?" No no he protested, "I'm ex RAF" while looking down his nose at me. I pressed further and asked what he flew in the RAF, fighter, transport ? None of these, University Air Squadron !!!!!!! God give me strength
I'm x UAS and don't see a problem with that really. Don't know how old the chap was.
As my old CFI said, 'When we were teaching you, you were being taught to RAF training standards'.
Some of my chums had over 250 hours. One getting 400 hours, of top quality free tution.
At a reunion over a decade ago, I spoke to a current UAS member who had 30 minutes in two years on the squadron. How times have changed.