Whats in a title

[Hartnup]

Hi All


Im a newbie here so please be gentle. I'm a fresh Captain and Im extremely proud in what I've achieved. It's been even that more challenging given my gender. I don't want to sound full of myself but does anyone prefix their name with Captain in public eg. emails with schools or banks etc or even presenting a talk to aviation students or non-aviation? Much like the honoring of say medical doctors or lawyers? Is it suitable or is it really only to be used by military?


Thanks in advance.

[Lookleft]

First of all well done on getting through the Command training. Its up to you what you want to call yourself but it is not a Queens commission in the military or an indication that your skills might need to be called upon in the case of a medical emergency. It is a rank within a flight deck so that the crew knows who the PIC is. Beyond that it has little value. Anyone who is no longer an active pilot but still wants to be referred to as Captain is doing so for purely egotistical purposes IMHO. I have used it in company emails but mainly when communicating with 3rd parties on behalf of the airline to people who might feel that the position of Captain has some importance.

[wishiwasupthere]

If you show airport cafes your ASIC and tell them
you’re a Captain (they turnover staff so often so they usually aren’t aware of the significance of four stripes on your shoulders) it usually gets an extra 5% off your morning coffee.

[Lead Balloon]

I suggest you PM the PPRuNer 'baylover'. He has more than 32000 hours of experience and will, therefore, be ideally placed to provide wise guidance.

(BTW: Any topic or original post that has question marks in it will usually end up in the sub-forum with "questions" in its name.)

[43Inches]

Captain of an airliner is the Pilot in Command, it's the same reasoning as in merchant naval terms. The Captain of a ship in civilian terms holds the legal position of "Shipmaster" or master. So if a ships master can refer to themselves as a "Captain" so can the leader (PIC) of an airline crew if they are bestowed that rank by their company. Airplane Captain has a dictionary entry under the naval version now as well. Of course Military ranks are commissioned so that's a different meaning. Remember that in legal terms however you are either the PIC or a Co-Pilot, there's no Captain, 1st, 2nd, cruise officer or such. However your ops manual will give each role a legal run down of what you might be responsible for under the delegation from the PIC.

[morno]

Are you serious? 😂😂

[PoppaJo]

Absolutely not.

If you want a honest answer, you will be known as Captain w@nker.

[Hartnup]

Ok thanks everyone. Yeah I wasnt sure how society views it, I mean I now get addressed as 'Morning Captain' when I enter a hotel which is quite nice, but thought it might be seen as a prestigious accolade, much like MP's, justices etc. I mean we've done just as much study as many of them. I must admit though I dont make a habit of going out in public and wearing my uniform. That, I feel is a little pretentious. Sorry, I feel as though my new shiny bars might still have their bling.

[Lead Balloon]

I’m a big fan of the series ‘Young Sheldon’. For those who aren’t fans or aware of it or the series of which it’s the prequel – ‘Big Bang Theory’ – it’s about the childhood of a genius who happens to have a twin sister.

Being a twin and having a sister, Sheldon and his twin sister became the subject of scientific study. During the study, Sheldon’s ‘kryptonite’ – as his maternal grandmother described it – became apparent. Sheldon was completely incapable of reading the body language of creatures in drawings shown to him. Although a drawing showed, for example, a monkey whispering in the ear of another monkey while the first glared at a third, Sheldon didn’t construe the scene in the same way as his sister and the rest of the family (or the studying scientist) did, namely as one monkey gossiping to another about the third.

Some people - even really smart ones - construe everything as a literal fact.

Are you sure ‘Hartnup’ and ‘baylover’ aren’t taking the piss, Lookleft?

[Stationair8]

Call me anything, but late for tea.

[das Uber Soldat]

This has to be a wind-up. You drive a bus, nobody cares.

[missioncontrol]

A couple of observations.

In the Middle East, everyone is referred to as Captain whether you have two, three or four stripes.

Even the local taxi drivers are referred to as captain.

Not everyone gets paid a ‘Captain’s’ salary.

If I had a dirham for every time I heard the expression “Big problem captain”.

Use your discretion and best judgement….oh and good luck.

[KRviator]

This has to be a wind-up. You drive a bus, nobody cares.Oh, fair go. I remember back in the day McCafferty's referred to their Driver's as "Coach Captains".

[Peter Fanelli]

I'm surprised nobody has asked what you fly. Captain of what?

[aussieflyboy]

Plenty of Captains getting around Divers/Monsoons/KNX Hotel on Friday nights…

[dr dre]

I don't want to sound full of myself but does anyone prefix their name with Captain in public eg. emails with schools or banks etc or even presenting a talk to aviation students or non-aviation?.

Should they - no. It’s a job description, nothing more. Makes as much sense as writing a letter to your kid’s school addressed as “Assistant Pastry Chef Jones” or “Apprentice Boiler Maker Smith”.

Does it happen in reality? Yes, unfortunately in a very small minority......

[Pinky the pilot]

If I remember correctly, way back many, many years ago all AFAP members were described as Captain XXXXX on their membership cards.

Not so , now.

[HappyBandit]

I can sort of understand why that sentiment exists actually, especially when you sit with check captains with not only 4 bars but also a star to emphasise their importance. But outside of aviation...nope. I make up stories on my occupation so as not to receive comments on a passenger's bad landing or how easy flying must be with ap on all day.

I can't wait to get out of my uncomfortable uniform.

It's good you feel proud. You should be, but there's no need to gloat to every person you come across.

[Ascend Charlie]

In a helicopter company I instructed at, the boss and his wife always referred to themselves as "Captain..blah blah" on every piece of paper, their nametags, business cards and so on. Massive onanism, but they were very good at self-promotion.

Other companies laughed at them, but the Captains had the last laugh with the money they pulled down.

[tossbag]

I reckon you should call yourself Captain at every opportunity, it's awesome. You never really know when it will jag you a freebie. Did you know medical doctors are not really doctors? They have a degree in medicine, it's just a courtesy. And most people who've done a Doctorate don't refer to themselves as Dr, they're humble. But we're not, we're awesome.

[43Inches]

I reckon you should call yourself Captain at every opportunity, it's awesome. You never really know when it will jag you a freebie. Did you know medical doctors are not really doctors? They have a degree in medicine, it's just a courtesy. And most people who've done a Doctorate don't refer to themselves as Dr, they're humble. But we're not, we're awesome.


There is a difference though, most places you are prohibited from using the Doctor/Dr title unless you are the holder of particular qualifications. The use of the title Captain has no such limitation, you can designate yourself as captain of your car if you so wish to be ridiculed. Even on the sea there is ongoing attempts to have the title officially for certain experience or size of vessel, but no law to regulate it, so while it would be uncool to say you are captain of your tinny, there's no law preventing it. However that being said, Airline Captain is a socially accepted term denoting what you do, and believe it or not people tend to respect the position (outside of PPRUNE that is).

[AmarokGTI]

Sometimes when I’m paxing on another airline the ticket gets booked as CAPTAIN …….

(No, I don’t book them)

The looks I get from the operating crew when showing my boarding pass… automatically people think I’m a massive ****** for using my title.

So two things… firstly, don’t use it outside of your specific work environment. Secondly, if you see someone with CPT on their boarding pass spare a thought for them because they probably didn’t do it themselves and feel like a tool!

(edit reason - typo)

[ajax58]

Oh, fair go. I remember back in the day McCafferty's referred to their Driver's as "Coach Captains".

Wasn’t just McCafs, it was across the industry particularly the crew running long distance tours, APT etc. A few of them still refer to themselves as such.

[lucille]

Its clear you were never told the significance of the title Captain UNder Training in your Flight Simulator command course.

But 10/10 for getting the old boys here all teary eyed about the good old old days when juicy young FAs would be queuing up to wave their panties at them…Ahhh… halcyon days days indeed.

A great windup post Keptin HardenUp.Kudos.

[aussieflyboy]

There is a difference though, most places you are prohibited from using the Doctor/Dr title unless you are the holder of particular qualifications. The use of the title Captain has no such limitation, you can designate yourself as captain of your car if you so wish to be ridiculed. Even on the sea there is ongoing attempts to have the title officially for certain experience or size of vessel, but no law to regulate it, so while it would be uncool to say you are captain of your tinny, there's no law preventing it. However that being said, Airline Captain is a socially accepted term denoting what you do, and believe it or not people tend to respect the position (outside of PPRUNE that is).

In fairness if you get pulled up by the water rats in your tinny with the boys the first thing they ask is “who’s the skipper here gents?”

[HappyBandit]

It's incredible how honorific get thrown around like FOD on a windy day. I walked past a chiropractor clinic the other day and it had Dr. Tryhardbutdidntgetintomed. Seriously?

I dont even address GPs as I'm here to see Dr so and so...I think its pretentious. Really the only ones that deserve the title are PhD recipients.

[Thumb War]

thought it might be seen as a prestigious accolade, much like MP's, justices etc. I mean we've done just as much study as many of them. I must admit though I dont make a habit of going out in public and wearing my uniform. That, I feel is a little pretentious. Sorry, I feel as though my new shiny bars might still have their bling.


This has to be a windup…?

[happyjack]

Some companies use other terms when referring to their staff. I called in to see my Mother once after a flight and threw away the flight paperwork in her kitchen. She found it and then saw me named on the briefing sheet as "Commander." That briefing sheet was retrieved from the kitchen bin and she never let it go. In her eyes I was now "Commander Bond!" She was so proud.

[601]

You drive a bus,
I told that I didn't want to be a bus driver but have a career in GA while being interview for a Commonwealth Flying Scholarship .
The two Captains on the interview panel were not impressed.

But having 4 bars on your shoulders can help. I had to do some swift talking at Athens to be allowed OFF the airport as the two of us were wearing jeans and collared t-shirts and not in uniform. The reasoning behind the Security was that aircrew don't crew aircraft in jeans and t-shirts.

We had planned to wear our uniforms from Athens down through the Middle East to Oz.

[old,not bold]

I can respond only as a Captain, Royal Artillery, Retired, becoming "retired" more decades ago than I care to remember, after an undistinguished career.

In later life, I ran a sea-oriented business in Dartmouth, where the Harbour Authority recruited entirely from retired Naval people.

Business was still done, at that time, by writing letters, and I found that converting RA after Captain into a squiggle that looked like RN got excellent results from the said Authority.

However, I have also found that using any of the myriad possibilities offered by British Airways for a passenger's title, such as Lord, Captain, Prof., Sir, etc etc,, I've tried them all, has no effect whatsoever.

You've earned your title of Captain, which is more than I did, and you should use it in aviation circles on duty.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

It's been even that more challenging given my gender

Yes, being a male, in today's age is definitely more challenging to get your command.

Calling yourself "Captain" even within the work environment is a wank, and outside of work, it is even a bigger wank.

We had "Managers'" at EK refer to themselves as Captain, even though they never had a command course at EK, or even flew at EK. Even worse, there were pilots who lost their medicals and took ground jobs in HR, who were FOs in EK and still referred to themselves as Captain......

[Ancient Observer]

At one time, I worked with an ex-BA Captain, who had taken early retirement. When we flew together on BA, their systems knew who he was. He was somewhat old school embarrassed, but never persuaded them to stop referring to him as Captain. He hated it. (But he did like the BA Pension)

[decoder]

G'day mate, you have worked too hard to achieve your command so don't allow females to stop you introducing yourself as captain. I personally do it all the time at parties... seems to impress the girls. Good luck!

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

I personally do it all the time at parties... seems to impress the girls. Good luck!

This is so very true. So many awesome nights, when I eventually dragged myself away from all the girls I’d been telling about myself, I could see them pointing at me and whispering, and I could tell they were super impressed!

[decoder]

This is so very true. So many awesome nights, when I eventually dragged myself away from all the girls I’d been telling about myself, I could see them pointing at me and whispering, and I could tell they were super impressed!
If you want to take it next level, turn up in uniform and tell em you just finished duty. They love it!

Always happy to help you young fellas out... now back on topic

[Double_Clutch]

Congratulations “Captain” on going solo for the first time

[tail wheel]

"Captain" is a mere indication of servitude employment!

I accept being addressed as nothing less than "Sir". Grovelling also helps!

:}

[triadic]

It's a culture change!

Sometime over the past 30 or so years the use of "Captain" has been changed by those that see it somewhat differently to those that are older. This seems to be a sign of the times? Not one that I support. As an example, my father was a Master Mariner (A ship's Captain) and he was always addressed as Captain, even when he moved to a shore position with the same company and later as a Marine Surveyor. His ship was sunk by the Germans in WWII, and he spent 4 yrs in a POW camp in Germany. All of the correspondence that I have seen (and still have) the mail was addressed to "Captain”, and he even had "Capt" prefix in the white pages (you remember them?)


Somewhere along the line the use of the title and other similar ones has been changed by those that don't seem to respect what it really means. Of course, there is a time and place for its use and perhaps the change has come about because of, shall I say "inappropriate" use (as described in previous posts) - maybe the later generations just don't understand or have not been in the classroom when it was discussed?

When I was flying as PIC, my company always used the prefix of Captain, even on boarding passes when deadheading. It was the way it was. Nevertheless when used appropriately, it should be respected.

[Ollie Onion]

The one time I told the truth in a bar and said I was an Airline Captain when asked the lady concerned just laughed and asked what I really did, now I just tell people I sell plumbing supplies :-) I have never used the title Captain outside of my own Airline and only then when required to do so.

[PoppaJo]

I just tell people even long lost family who we meet after many years, that I work in Aviation operations. Generally I don’t get any questions after that. One said family noticed me on a walkaround once, he was quite taken back and thought I worked for Head office. So seems it works.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Captain is so passé

I’ll call you Skipper if you promise to call me Gilligan :}

[mates rates]

Because of the Australian”tall poppy syndrome” I have always been” a shift worker at the airport.”

[dr dre]

It's a culture change!

Sometime over the past 30 or so years the use of "Captain" has been changed by those that see it somewhat differently to those that are older. This seems to be a sign of the times? Not one that I support. As an example, my father was a Master Mariner (A ship's Captain) and he was always addressed as Captain, even when he moved to a shore position with the same company and later as a Marine Surveyor. His ship was sunk by the Germans in WWII, and he spent 4 yrs in a POW camp in Germany. All of the correspondence that I have seen (and still have) the mail was addressed to "Captain”, and he even had "Capt" prefix in the white pages (you remember them?)


Somewhere along the line the use of the title and other similar ones has been changed by those that don't seem to respect what it really means. Of course, there is a time and place for its use and perhaps the change has come about because of, shall I say "inappropriate" use (as described in previous posts) - maybe the later generations just don't understand or have not been in the classroom when it was discussed?

When I was flying as PIC, my company always used the prefix of Captain, even on boarding passes when deadheading. It was the way it was. Nevertheless when used appropriately, it should be respected.

No I disagree.

Once upon a time the title “Captain” was so feared he was never questioned, to the point it was preferable to fly into the side of a mountain than disobey his orders.

Nowadays the safety culture has changed, but there is still an elitist arrogance with using the prefix of “Captain” outside of work, or demanding to be only addressed by that title in any circumstance.

Coach and train drivers have, at times, more lives in their hands than airline pilots yet they don’t seem to go around feeling the need to refer to themselves by their job title outside of work.

Would it hurt anyone if their boarding pass didn’t have the prefix of “Captain”? Are you suddenly going to forget how to do your job?

Although I still see some remnants of that culture I’m confident these quasi military elements are going to be expunged within time from civilian airlines, as they are totally unnecessary and if you go around referring to yourself as “Captain” in general communication, the only thing you’ll achieve nowadays is get yourself labelled as a word rhyming with “banker”.

[compressor stall]

Sometimes when I’m paxing on another airline the ticket gets booked as CAPTAIN …….

(No, I don’t book them)

The looks I get from the operating crew when showing my boarding pass… automatically people think I’m a massive ****** for using my title.

So two things… firstly, don’t use it outside of your specific work environment. Secondly, if you see someone with CPT on their boarding pass spare a thought for them because they probably didn’t do it themselves and feel like a tool!

(edit reason - typo)
I get the same - name and CAPT on tickets booked by company for travel in other airlines. But more often then not has lead to subsequent conversation and exemplary and attentive food and beverage service. YMMV

[KAPAC]

Banker , once respected profession. Remember how my parents got dressed up to front up to a meeting with local branch manager to discuss chance of a mortgage . Now ? Politicians also once well respected . Times we live in . Covid has been interesting as 30 year immunologists are disrespected and told by the masses they are involved in some type of conspiracy in regards to vaccinations. We’ve lost trust in educated specialists , brining them down but it’s costing us as a society .

[C441]

In a breathe of fresh air in the mid-80's a Captain once briefed us "My name's Greg*. If you call me Captain I'll think there's something wrong."

I took that onboard and used it, particularly with cabin crew, thus hopefully making them feel comfortable to speak to us if there was something they felt we needed to know.….. and hoping it wasn't "Captain. You must listen!"

* maybe not his real name

[innuendo]

But having 4 bars on your shoulders can help. I had to do some swift talking at Athens to be allowed OFF the airport as the two of us were wearing jeans and collared t-shirts and not in uniform. The reasoning behind the Security was that aircrew don't crew aircraft in jeans and t-shirts.

Unless you operated a DC-8 freighter with a cargo of live cattle. Did just that, Montreal to Athens, (long time ago). Worked in jeans and T shirt and they went into a garbage bag on deplaning, then into your suitcase which came out of another garbage bag with the rest of your clothes, so you did not smell like a barnyard for the rest of the pairing. Sorry to go OT, hard to resist.

Back to the thread. A fair number of years ago I had a friend who was a retired Pan Am skipper. This was a time when Pan Am was among the prominent international operators.
Upon his retirement one of the things he was presented with by the airline was a box of business cards, embossed with logo, Captain xxx, Pan Am, (retired).
I guess the airline thought it was recognition and was appreciated at the time.

Things change I suppose.

[Ascend Charlie]

Captain xxx, Pan Am, (retired).

Is that like a card which has

"BSc, (Calcutta) (failed)" and before you go off at me for being racist, this was a character in an old comic strip.

[innuendo]

I don't think he failed, nor, I suppose did, Pan Am.

[Potsie Weber]

Paxing on duty travel, I swapped seats with a passenger so they could have the window seat. Guy was huge, nice mullet, beard, dressed like a proper bogan. Starting the service, the cabin crew addressed him as “Captain xxxx”. He looked at me questioningly and I shrugged my shoulders, he then said “f$&kin A man, I’ll take that” and sat up a bit straighter with his new found title. Swear he didn’t stop smiling the whole flight.

[megan]

Captain with four stripes? Lordy me, I was a Captain and only had two. ;)

[Captain Dart]

B.H. (Calcutta) Failed was a dog in the comic strip ‘The Perishers’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Perishers

[Dunhovrin]

I did my “civvie” licenses at a flying school near Bristol, UK, where the instructors all wore three bars and the owner four. Though there was one instructor who put four on when he was flying the local radio travel crew.

[tossbag]

Paxing on duty travel, I swapped seats with a passenger so they could have the window seat. Guy was huge, nice mullet, beard, dressed like a proper bogan. Starting the service, the cabin crew addressed him as “Captain xxxx”. He looked at me questioningly and I shrugged my shoulders, he then said “f$&kin A man, I’ll take that” and sat up a bit straighter with his new found title. Swear he didn’t stop smiling the whole flight.

Absolute Gold :D

[Pinky the pilot]

"Captain" is a mere indication of servitude employment!

I accept being addressed as nothing less than "Sir". Grovelling also helps!


Em nau, Masta!:D:D

[redsnail]

Congratulations on passing your upgrade. Well done. You'll still get mistaken for a cabin crew member and the refueler will look past you looking for the captain.
It happens, just shrug it off. :)
As for using the title outside of work? Never. It's a job title.

[Middle.Marker]

Congratulations on the promotion Petra!!

[Derfred]

In a breathe of fresh air in the mid-80's a Captain once briefed us "My name's Greg*. If you call me Captain I'll think there's something wrong."

I had a similar Captain in my early days.

I always thought I would “save that quote” for when I became a Captain.

By the time I became a Captain, I am happy to report, the quote has never needed to be used. It now goes without saying.

As far as I am concerned, respect is earned by personality​​​​​, attitude and action (leading by example), not by title.

If you ever have to flash your 4 bars at a subordinate, the problem is probably you, not them.

[Octane]

Do you have a really big watch yet?:}

[Slipstream86]

I've seen people who have been pre-failed at the start of assessment days by interviewers when conducting document checks, and discovering their proof of address title is "Captain" on a utility bill or like....Probably reflects the general sentiment amongst most towards this kind of self importance. Everyone should have the right to be addressed by a name of their choosing, so go for it if it means so much...but don't expect your colleagues not to poke fun at you in your absence.

[Hunter S Thompson]

Capt Hartnup, congratulations on your fine achievement. My Samoan Attorney advises to ignore the wailing and gnashing of teeth by correspondents on this forum and to utilise your honorific at every opportunity. Sincerely, HST.

[reefrat]

Old one this Captain biz. Once came across a seamanship instructor who styled himself Captain. Turned out he was a retired Rasc bod not R.N. He got a bit toey when I asked if he knew many Captains of the Head, (Bog cleaners FYI)

[JohnnoP]

congratulations on the promotion petra!!

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Matt48]

Are you a bus driver if you steer an Airbus.

[Talkwrench]

You guys should just be happy that the acronym for your job title is not LAME.

[Hartnup]

So I had my first go at using my title today. A telemarketer called. "Hello Ms Hartnup, how are you today?" I corrected her. "Its Capt Harntup, actually" She responded with, "Oh, sorry, well done. Where have you served?" My response, "Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane this week." "Oh, ok, it must be hard on the body." "Incredibly!" I replied. Yeah, maybe I might be better off sticking with my unofficial title from here on in.

[43Inches]

Capt Hartnup, congratulations on your fine achievement. My Samoan Attorney advises to ignore the wailing and gnashing of teeth by correspondents on this forum and to utilise your honorific at every opportunity. Sincerely, HST.

Is he from Western Samoa or American Samoa, it makes a difference you know. It would be better again if he was Tongan, they have a King and all, they know their titles.

[HappyBandit]

Is it like the different ethinicities of swallows? (See how long it takes :-) )

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Honorifics can be a burden! At various times in my career I have been a:
Sgt - CMF
Dr - courtesy
Dr - PhD
Capt - aviation
Capt - marine
Prof - academic
and lets not get into post nominals!

[HappyBandit]

What's your PhD in FTDK?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

What's your PhD in FTDK?

Reproductive physiology!

[HappyBandit]

Reproductive Physiology.....hahaha...so many correlations with aviation :-)

[beached az]

Congrats Capt Hartnup on your hard earned Left Seat.
Back in the day you could have asked the preeminent subject matter expert Captain Ace 4 Bars himself.
His girlfriend might still be lurking around, could try her for an opinion?

BAz :ok:

[43Inches]

Reproductive Physiology.....hahaha...so many correlations with aviation :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPdEP_fFQhk

[Capt Fathom]

Originally Posted by HappyBandit

What's your PhD in FTDK?



Reproductive physiology!

I think he just told you to get f….d Bandit

[On eyre]

When you’re on the flight deck you’re Captain - elsewhere you’re just Fred ffs.

[megan]

Unless you're Scott Pendlebury, BTW how do you count his stripes, three?

[rowdy trousers]

According to the Bonza recruitment ad, it’s no longer captain, rather you are an inflight experience team member. HR graduates have contributed so much to the world.

[Pearly White]

Depends.

Is your surname "Obvious"?

BTW I hear M&S has a nice line in pyjamas for this season with four golden stripes on the sleeves.

PS Congrats on the cmd rating though. :ok:

[Lead Balloon]

Or maybe Kremin or Kirk...

[Capt Fathom]

I'm surprised nobody has asked what you fly. Captain of what?

Still hasn’t answered that question!

Just completed their first solo perhaps. The thread is a bit suspect.

[tail wheel]

"The thread is a bit suspect"

Not nice! I'll have you know PPRuNe is a bastion of truth, honesty and neutrality, respected World wide for integrity in aviation and airline media reporting.

:}