The caring medical profession

[9.81m/s/s]

A 'friend of mine' recently went to see the SMO. He hadn't had a complaint of any kind for 6 years! On entering the plush office of the SMO he was asked ' how may I help ', to which he replied, 'well sir it's two things really'. At this point the good doctor interjected - ' well you better make it one you have only got 7 mins '!!!! I kid you not!!! Thoughts?

[detgnome]

Thoughts:

1. Never trust any RAF Medics

2. Always seek a second opinion

3. In an emergency go to A&E - saves waiting around for 4 hours with a burst appendix that even you can diagnose

[9.81m/s/s]

Good advice mate! I'll be tellin my 'friend'. Course I knew that already!

[canberra]

for starters take away their commisions. why does a doctor (or a dentist and a padre) need to be commisioned? they dont have pow status so why be comissioned? secondly does hq stc need 12 docs pushing paper? i dont think so. and thirdly if youve got a complaint about them go and see the station commander!

[Scud-U-Like]

Your friend can:

a. Follow the local complaints procedure, as detailed at the SMC.

b. Complain to the General Medical Council (http://www.gmc-uk.org/probdocs/default.htm).

c. Do nothing.

Whatever your friend decides, I don't think it is fair for others to use a very specific incident like this as an excuse to have a go at the RAF medical services in general.

[Hertz Van Rental]

Service medics are seriously understaffed; that comment could have easily been the doc chaffing at the fact that the system assumes only a 7 minute period with each patient. (This is a guess - I have no knowledge that this is so.)

The context of how and why the doc said it would be revealing, and as Scud says, even if this doc is a prat, it doesn't make them all one.

[Slotback]

As mentioned in the thread already there is serious understaffing of the medical service at the moment. The short time given to patients is a reflection of this shortage coupled with the number of people seeking treatment/ advice. The national NHS average time a patient gets with their GP is 8 mins, compared with 15 to 20 on the continent.

The problem highlight goes to show that the service is just a microcosm of society. Making complaints will highlight a problem that those at the top know about and are struggling to deal with both in the RAF and outside. However, keep on complaining (legitimately), it may make a difference. Eventually.... or am I dreaming.

[papercut]

quick try and sober up..............................

Yes well.

First, the average RAF 10 minute appointment is designed to fix one, repeat ONE problem, properly. If you want to see me about several problems book a double appointment.

Now okay I'm on the wrong side of the fence to argue too strongly on this one BUT, speak to your wife, sister, brother, parent and ask how long they wait to see their MO/GP.

Yes? A week, hmm, they're lucky aren't they?

Now you've got A problem? Tell me about it and I'll see what I can do. Given that we'll have 10 minutes and a huge shortage of medical officers let's not waste anymore time.

Oh, sorry, you'd like to complain, I see! Scud-u like carry on let's see where kicking the sh*t out of your SMO's morale gets you.

Canberra, yes why are MOs given rank at all, after all it pisses a few tightar*e w*nkers off that their nemesis is a Sqn Ldr or Wg Cdr. try divorcing rank from pay and you'll be halfway to why there is such a shortfall of MOs in the first place.

Slotback dream on, I've worked for the NHS and MOD and 10 minutes is a bonus in the NHS and an expectation in the MOD. Ok legitimate complaints might improve a specific problem but let's get real for a minute.

Hertz, thanks for understanding, sort of, this doc isn't a prat he's just busy (read overwhelmed).

There's lots of evidence that longer appointments solve problems that patients present. If you give me 2 or 3 problems what's the betting No.3 is the biggy? "It's this discharge doc"! and how long have you left me to fix it????

"Give me a lever and a place to stand and I'll move the world" give me 2 minutes and I'll tell you to book a second appointment.

Any complaints don't bitch to me. get me more doctors and longer appointments.

[Scud-U-Like]

Papercut

When a patient makes an appointment to see the doc for the first time in 6 years, I would suggest he deserves a little more consideration than he appears to have received on this occasion.

How difficult would it have been for the SMO to say (after 7 minutes) , "Look, I really am so sorry, but I've got to see another patient. Would you mind making a double appointment, so we can look into your concerns in more detail" ?

We are all sympathetic to the pressures on the medical profession, but when a doctor cannot manage even the basics of 'bedside manner', what's the point?

[papercut]

I completely agree that manners are important, not just bedside manners but in everyday life. Your approach would be the one I'd tend to take, usually. However the patient who walks in and says "I've got 3 problems I want to talk about", or worse pulls a list out of their pocket, they might be gently advised they have but 10 minutes.

I don't see what the 6 years has to to with the price of fish at all. You've still only booked a single appointment.

Let's face it. No matter how nice I am about it, if what I say has irritated you, that's what you take away from it. Sorry.

[papercut]

Apologies if this is boring but this has irritated me somewhat.

I knew there was a reason that this 6 yrs thing bugged me, and not just because you wouldn't expect the garage to give you any better service if the last time you brought your car in was 6 years ago.

I presume it's a safe assumption the Dr. referred to is in the UK.

We can assume that 9.81m/s/s freind isn't aircrew after all they have annual medicals. and we can assume he isn't in the RAF either as all ground personell have medicals at least every 5 years.

So why are you bitching about it in a military aircrew forum?

[Talking Radalt]

Canberra,
I believe the commisioned only rule for Medical staff and Padres is linked to a) pay and b) client confidentiality (in a very outdated "officers have it, NCOs don't" kinda way)

[Scud-U-Like]

Papercut

The significance of the 6 years is that:

a. the patient in question probably goes to the doctor only when he is seriously concerned about his health, preferring not to present the overworked doctor with minor ailments

and

b. he probably hasn't a clue about the concept of double appointments (about which the SMO's staff could easily have enlightened him, at the time of booking).

Both good reasons, I would suggest, for the doctor to be especially understanding with said patient.

P.S. A medical isn't a 'complaint'.

[Mach the Knife]

Any danger of you guys talking about something aviation related?

[9.81m/s/s]

Papercut - I sympathise! But all branches of all the services are undermanned and underfunded - so don't bitch at me - because I know for a fact that I am overstretched!!! What I am unhappy about is the secondary medical care! The admin side is quite frankly appalling! I have had files lost, misplaced, apologies - I have been forgotten about in the medical system - which has affected my career progression. I have been given specialist appointments in Hospital only to have been told two months later that there has been an admin error and I would have to wait another 4 months etc etc! I wasn't going to bring all this up but since you started to whinge..............! And Scud-u like is right - a complaint is not a medical - and my 'friend' only visits the doc when he is genuinely worried about his health!!!! Does he know about the rules regarding how much time is allloted to a complaint and that he has to make double appts? Does he hell!!! How would he when he hasn't had a complaint in 6 years!!!!!!? And to Mach the knife - if you are aircrew mate you should know just how much the docs control whether you fly or not - so I would suggest that this topic is very much aviation related!

[rotordoc]

The reason docs have officer rank is as they are the medical adviser to the commanding officer. Company commanders have a nasty habit of trying to overrule medical decisions and the doctor has more ammunition with rank. The only person who can overrule a doctors decision is the commanding officer or another doctor. Ultimately the doctor is trying to protect your interests to treat conditions early and prevent further damage.
As far as your appointment time goes 7 minutes is certainly a luxury in civvy street. Medicals are allotted 20 minutes to allow you time to discuss any concerns, no mater how minor. perhaps if you actually trusted doctors a little more instead of thinking all that they do is ground people you might get a better response. A doctor will find it hard to be pleasant to someone with such a negative attitude.
You also sound like the sort of person who would sit in the waiting room complaining that the doctor is running late as they have been spending more than the alotted 7 mins with their patients. you can't have it both ways. We try to be flexible to allow you to continue flying without upsetting your programme too much however if you are prepared to sit in the waiting room until all patients have had as long as they want then fine!:mad:

[lightningmate]

The following facts taken from the latest Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (Service Medical & Dental Officers) puts the situation within the DMS very clearly.

"The manning figures speak for themselves. While overall numbers of Service Medical and Dental Officers have stabilised at around 1,400 at April 2001, the DMS have:

Only 164 general medical practitioners (GMPs) of the 398 required - a shortfall of almost 60 per cent!!
Only 25 of the 120 consultant anaesthetists required;
Only 18 of the required 51 consultants in general medicine;
Only 18 of the required 44 consultants in general surgery;
Only 10 of the required 28 consultants in orthopaedics; and
Only 234 general dental practitioners (GDPs) of the 288 required.

The problems afflicting the DMS have been recognised for a decade. Manning and retention difficulties have been at the heart of these problems. Successive reviews have failed to produce effective remedies hence the DMS continue to experience low levels of manning, continuing retention problems and growing dissatisfaction among personnel over organisation and pay."

It is not going to get better quickly - if at all.

lm

[HeckSparecrew]

We are all aware of the shortages of manpower in the medical branch, but we have all suffered from that problem. However, why, when I go for my annual medical, am I asked if I am due an ECG. Call me a bluff old traditionalist but isn't it their job to tell me?

This is all from the same medical centre whose records are so inadequate that personnel are required to take there innoculation certificates to the Regt section during their annual CCS so our friendly rock apes can check if our jabs are up-to-date! Am I missing something or have the lunatics finally taken over the asylum.

[Mac the Knife]

Firstly I'm not Mach the Knife - Mac TK is my handle - different guy.

Actually 9.18 I think that your doctor's remark was quite discourteous and pretty much sabotaged the consultation from the start. I'd have said, "OK, tell me about the first problem". If things went on a bit I'd have said, "I'm sorry, but can we carry on after I've cleared some of the other chaps/chapesses? If you can't wait then perhaps you'd like to make another appointment and we can sort it out then."

I don't actually care how busy he/she was or how stressed, that wasn't polite or professional. Now 27 years in the business - I've worked as a GP and Casualty Officer in South London and now I'm a consultant surgeon in a filthy understaffed overcrowded collapsing tertiary hospital. Sure, I have my lapses but there's really no valid excuse for that sort of smart-alec comment.

For what it's worth, Mrs Mac is a paediatrician in another filthy understaffed overcrowded collapsing tertiary hospital and agrees with me.

I'm a long way from being a saintly, infinitely patient Albert Schweitzer but I try to mind my manners no matter who I'm dealing with.

[9.81m/s/s]

Mac The Knife - Ta mate. I thought I was losing it there - seeming that I was the only one in the world who prefers and expects a little courtesy! I didn't want to rant and rave about the state of medical admin and their abysmal service but as you may have gleaned from the thread - I was pushed into it! I'm well aware of the general state of the medical profession both civvi and military and I really do sympathise but as you rightly pointed out - I don't expect to be spoken to or treated like a child in such a discourteous manner ( by a senior officer!!!! ). And to Heck' - oh yeah mate - you are the preacher and I'm the converted!!!!! AMEN