Dan-Air Skyways

[Mooncrest]

I was very young when all this happened so please indulge any inaccuracies, no matter how whopping. When Dan-Air acquired Skyways International, the Skyways HS748s received an additional red cheatline (why is it called that ? It's a stripe, FGS) alongside the turquoise, the tailfin was repainted white and received the customary compass and pennant logo, although not encircled at this time. Also, the new hybrid name 'Dan-Air Skyways' was applied to the fuselage. Question: did the existing Dan-Air HS748 fleet receive the same treatment (for the sake of commonality) or were they left as they were in the regular 1972/73 livery?

Thankyou.

[Watson1963]

Got me wondering too..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery#:~:text=A%20cheatline%20is%20a%20decorative, impact%20of%20their%20cabin%20windows.)
"The etymology of the term stems from "cheating the eye" because the first cheatlines aimed to streamline aircraft visually by reducing the staccato impact of their cabin windows."

[Mooncrest]

Got me wondering too..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery#:~:text=A%20cheatline%20is%20a%20decorative, impact%20of%20their%20cabin%20windows.)
"The etymology of the term stems from "cheating the eye" because the first cheatlines aimed to streamline aircraft visually by reducing the staccato impact of their cabin windows."
Wouldn't work on a stocky aircraft like the 748 or early 737. A stripe is a stripe!

[BACsuperVC10]

Did these fly over the channel from Lydd ?

[ATNotts]

Did these fly over the channel from Lydd ?

Dan Air Skyways absorbed Skyways International, formerly Skyways Coach-Air and the HS748 operation was from Ashford (Lympne). They also flew a small schedule from EMA (then of course CDD) to Beauvais for a number of seasons between the late 1960s and early 1970s. They flew Coach-Air services from London to Paris flying Ashford-Beauvais. Then there was Skyways Cargo Airline that I seem to recall flew from Lydd to Beauvais using a fleet of DC3s. I believe that they worked closely with a French freight forwarder, Beauvais Transport SA whom I would up working for some years later - long after the DC3 operation was history, and nightly trucks were flavour of the month.

[possel]

I did that Coach-Air route London - Paris via Lydd and Beauvais in April 1975. We flew from Lydd on a Dan-Air Viscount G-BBDK which they leased (in full Dan-Air livery) for a while. Unfortunately coming back two days later the Viscount went tech and we had to hang around for a 748 (G-ASPL) which took us back from Le Bourget to Gatwick at around 2am. I can still recall the landing at LGW in a horrible gusty crosswind in rain - one of the few times I have ever been worried for my own safety in an aircraft.

[ATNotts]

I did that Coach-Air route London - Paris via Lydd and Beauvais in April 1975. We flew from Lydd on a Dan-Air Viscount G-BBDK which they leased (in full Dan-Air livery) for a while. Unfortunately coming back two days later the Viscount went tech and we had to hang around for a 748 (G-ASPL) which took us back from Le Bourget to Gatwick at around 2am. I can still recall the landing at LGW in a horrible gusty crosswind in rain - one of the few times I have ever been worried for my own safety in an aircraft.
I guess that the coach-air operation moved away from Ashford when the Viscount replaced 748s.

[treadigraph]

I remember seeing Skyways Cargo DC-3s at Gatwick in the mid to late-70s. They faded and Intra Airways/Air Atlantique perhaps picked up some of the fleet? One I recall went to Ethiopia and subsequently crashed.

[tonyb]

The coach-air service moved to Lydd. was operated by HS748, then leased Viscounts of first Air Bridge then Alidair. At one time BAC 1-11s were tried.
Happy days.

[N707ZS]

The photos below might help with your timeline.
Aviation photographs of Registration: G-ASPL : ABPic (https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/G-ASPL)

[Flap40]

I certainly remember seeing Dan-Air Skyways 748's in Jersey and plain Dan-Air 748s's but can't remember if that was in the same period or later.

[DIBO]

Then there was Skyways Cargo Airline that I seem to recall flew from Lydd to Beauvais using a fleet of DC3s.They also flew on an almost daily basis Ashford (and later Lydd) - Antwerp. Still remembering G-AGYZ as one of the DC3's registration, confirms my long term memory is still intact (compared to the short term memory :hmm:)

[Flugzeug A]

I was at school near LBA in ‘73 when my dad was promoted & the rest of the family moved to Glasgow.
Pater busy , Mater looking after wee sister?
You can fly home Dan Air!
As a kid fascinated with aircraft who hung around LBA every weekend , it was great news-tho’ having to travel as a ‘UM’ miffed me somewhat!
Many a year ago but I’m convinced it was Dan Air Skyways , with the ‘Skyways’ part always on my ticket , announced for boarding etc.
The paint scheme sounds as I recollect it.
Always a ‘748 , I was sometimes the only passenger , but one time the aircraft went ‘tech’ & I travelled alone on a ‘111!!
Great excitement , as ‘111s were rare at LBA at that time.
Aer Lingus flew one every Sunday ( I think ) , but we saw a lot of Viscounts....

[WHBM]

I think the 748 fleet became somewhat mixed after the merger. Skyways operated from Lympne (pronounced "Lim") airport, alias Ashford, which was a grass runway, and the 748 was about the largest type that could operate there. I believe Skyways physically owned it. When periodically waterlogged, or after the merger when larger Viscounts took over from the 748s, things were transferred down the road to Lydd. This was aided by their principal traffic being London to Paris "Coach-Air" services, with road coaches from each side. The 748 seated 48, which was the same seating capacity as typical road coaches of the era. They also did quite a lot of holiday IT charters on the same route for travel companies doing coach holidays to the continent. Their several 748s were notably intensively used shuttling to and fro on summer weekends, the scheduled service alone being roughly hourly. Lympne, despite being grass, must have had full lighting, because they scheduled to operate until midnight.

The original 748s transferred to Dan-Air were some of the first built, for Skyways in 1962, and after the 1973 merger then had amazingly long lives with Dan-Air, some through to 1990. Regarding livery consistency, well, this is Dan-Air. Were any two aircraft ever painted the same ? :) . The 748 fleet at both organisations was notably fluid, with aircraft leasing both in and out. Skyways, being a very seasonal operation, worked significantly in this way.

The 748s, pressurised and on a somewhat longer run, flew over the top of the Silver City (later BUA) car ferry shuttle's Bristol Freighters operating from Lydd to Le Touquet.

Skyways were an absolute pioneer independent from the end of WW2, and in the early 1950s one of the largest. They started the Coach-Air operation with DC3s. The mainstream airline eventually morphed into Britannia Airways (I'm shortcutting notably here), while Coach-Air continued with the name as a separate company - they probably always were required to badge as Skyways Coach-Air. After selling out (maybe for £1 - plus all the debts) to Dan-Air their longstanding MD retained a few all-cargo DC3s, which ran on for some years in the 1970s, separately again, still from Lydd but also inevitably at the time from Aberdeen as well, often indeed in competition with Dan-Air there, before finally closing down in the early 1980s.

[PPRuNe Towers]

My very first cross channel trip Lydd - Beauvais school trip, summer of '67 in a DC3 and we stayed in a deserted Versaille girls' school.

In those days that counted as glamour for me...
Rob

[Mickey Kaye]

What short of instrument approaches did Lympne have?

[Airbanda]

What short of instrument approaches did Lympne have?

The Wikipedia entry says Decca Radar. No mention of ILS.

My 1974 publication UK & Eire Commercial Airports says Plessey 424 radar, NDB and VASI.

[WHBM]

In the late 60s Skyways had 5 or 6 748s each summer, often leasing in for the period. One did daily shuttles Lympne to Beauvais, managing six round trips. A second also ran the route, doubling the schedule, on peak days with another six round trips; Fridays and Sundays were the peak days.

A third did the longer haul runs from Lympne; the route through Clermont Fernand to Montpelier and back took all day, and in the evening supplemented Beauvais and could do an intervening trip from there to East Midlands and back, all these three ending up back at Lympne close to, or after, midnight, which meant the coach got passengers to London Victoria around 2am, which in that era must have been pretty inconvenient for those on a budget, where night-rate black cabs were the only onward option.

A fourth aircraft did the inclusive tour hops from Lympne across the Channel, to Beauvais again or Ostend. One, sometimes two, aircraft spare or on maintenance. Probably no crews got weekend days off in the summer.

[LTNman]

Skyways International also flew a scheduled service between Luton and Ostend in 1971

[WHBM]

Skyways International also flew a scheduled service between Luton and Ostend in 1971
The name change from Skyways Coach-Air was shortly before they ended operations. These schedules, a few times a week, were a "W" Lympne-Ostend-Luton and back. Skyways only attempted intermittent scheduled service to Ostend, but did a good number of IT charter flights there from Lympne for Continental coach holiday operators, as Ostend was a significant centre for touring coach operators running all over Europe.

Skyways Coach-Air had been half-owned by its London coach company connector East Kent buses, the local mainstream bus operator in Kent, which became nationalised and thus the airline ended up half state-owned. When the ministry turned down a request for winter funding that was the end, and I believe they shut down for a couple of months before Dan-Air took them on. Eric Rylands, longstanding MD from back in the major Skyways company in the 1950s, then started again and took on the cargo DC-3s, funded by some major cross-channel freight forwarders as described above, carrying on initially the same services as before - this had always been a separate but parallel Skyways area of business, to Beauvais, Antwerp, etc, sharing the night operations at Lympne.

[Mooncrest]

Even among all the Dan Air Skyways- painted 748s, the tailfin logo was different. In fact, this was something common to all the Dan Air fleet up until the time the 146s arrived. As WHBM says, no two alike - subtle but noticeable differences - but quality control and consistency finally came along to coincide with new aircraft. By this time, the tail logo could well have been a decal/transfer so easy to produce lots of identical sets, albeit in different sizes.

[WHBM]

Skyways with their Coach-Air-Coach were a competitor to the Silver City "Silver Arrow" service, Rail-Air-Rail, both on London to Paris. The latter used train to Gatwick, and a custom French railway branch into the airport at Le Touquet.

By 1960 allowable road coach sizes had grown a bit to 45 seats. This suited the initial Skyways fleet of DC3s, with their standard 21 seats, one coach feeding two aircraft running together. The 748, with 48 seats, did the job of two DC3s, and filled the coach on both sides more efficiently. When the 748s came along the DC3 fleet was not disposed, but they set up a package air freight operation with them.

Skyways did some other charters with the 748. Attempts at Mediterranean charters with them, from Lympne to Palma or Venice, were rather a failure (although doubtless a better experience than unpressurised piston DC4s still being offered), but they picked up various contract work, such as the Ford daily shuttle from Southend to Cologne, which had the advantage that it didn't run at weekends when the Lympne traffic peaked, I'm sure if Skyways had lasted a few years longer into the 1970s you would have seen them running out of Aberdeen (as their actual aircraft then did with Dan-Air)...

[SWBKCB]

The 748, with 48 seats, did the job of two DC3s, and filled the coach on both sides more efficiently. When the 748s came along the DC3 fleet was not disposed, but they set up a package air freight operation with them.

The cargo Daks operating company was "Air Freight", who latter changed their name to Skyways Cargo Airline and got some FH-227's...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/3603909575/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/4309076051/

[treadigraph]

I'd forgotten the FH-227s! Blimey, yes! Nice shot at East Midlands there, ABC as well... Sigh.

[WHBM]

Have wondered how Skyways got the Fairchild FH-227 onto the UK register. Their two aircraft were the only ones. The Fairchilds, which looked identical, were more different structurally to the Fokker F-27 than you might think, for example all the design drawings were converted from metric to US standards for the US tooling and sheet metal sizes at the Fairchild factory, done at a fairly early development stage - the first Fairchild was delivered several months earlier than the first Fokker. Must have needed separate UK certification, surely.

G-SKYA in the picture had an unfortunate end, after a couple of years with Skyways, when they closed down it went back across the Atlantic, to a Brazilian passenger operator, where after only a few months service it crashed into an airport car park on approach, with total loss of life.

[Mooncrest]

I remember hearing from colleagues in the 1990s taking an F27 maintenance course at Exeter. During their stay, there was an Irish-registered FH227 undergoing a large check with JEA or Westcountry - whichever one it was. As JEA was an F27 operator, I assume the MRO was either approved for both types or the relevant authorities considered both as a single type. TAT in France also operated the FH227 - perhaps it was easier to obtain in the 1970s or was otherwise preferable to the F27. None of which has anything to do with Dan Air Skyways! Interesting stuff in its own right though.