Manston Reactivating ?

[SpringHeeledJack]

A friend of a friend who lives in Thanet said that there's talk of Manston reopening due to the current world situation. I can't see it myself as it would involve too much infrastructure to be quickly implemented. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking and a rumour started, as they do. Wasn't it being used as a truck park for brexit delayed HGV's lately ??

[jmdavies86]

There's a new railway station called 'Thanet Parkway' currently being constructed between Minster & Ramsgate, which is to serve Kent International Airport, Discovery Park and other development sites around Cliffsend; a chap I follow on YouTube produced a video very recently that has a bit more detail about it:

click here

As for the airport itself, the plans that RiverOak Strategic Partners (RSP) currently have would see MSE re-opened "...as a global freight hub, enabling the airport to fulfil its role in helping the UK trade across the globe and to import vital and time-sensitive goods...", and taking into account the fact that the new train station above isn't due to open until May 2023, it's unlikely that any passenger flights will resume anytime soon.

[pamann]

A friend of a friend who lives in Thanet said that there's talk of Manston reopening due to the current world situation. I can't see it myself as it would involve too much infrastructure to be quickly implemented. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking and a rumour started, as they do. Wasn't it being used as a truck park for brexit delayed HGV's lately ??

As much as I’d love to see Manston return to service, there are no short term plans that I can see anywhere for it to reopen.

What would the current world situation have to do with it reopening anyway? The plan is/was for it to be primarily a freight hub.

[SWBKCB]

Is that Riverpark plan still going? Maybe they've seen an opportunity to get the name back in the news?

Sure if there is the need for sit freight because of the 'world situation' there is still plenty of spare capacity in the UK system - that international airport 20 miles north for example?

[Asturias56]

Where's the Doctor when you need him?

Manston isn't going to reopen - its the BREXIT lorry park

[SpringHeeledJack]

As much as I’d love to see Manston return to service, there are no short term plans that I can see anywhere for it to reopen.

What would the current world situation have to do with it reopening anyway? The plan is/was for it to be primarily a freight hub.

Me too! I was there last summer hoping to have a look at the old terminal, but it had become a covid vaccination centre, so was off-bounds for those not partaking. As I said in my OP, I couldn't see it realistically happening. The 'world situation' might have been a reference to worsening conditions in Europe if the present conflict got out of hand and a, perhaps freight, hub would be needed that was close, yet away. That said, there are enough airports in the UK with freight facilities already. Oh well, Thanet gossip (unfounded) ;-)

[Dave Gittins]

Saw a Facebook post last week that suggested there was a petition going round to reopen Manston .. dunno who has started it though, or who they are petitioning.

[Flying Hi]

Or in advance of becoming RAF Manston once again for when the Russians reach Calais?

[Asturias56]

Or in advance of becoming the first Russian air base on English soil when the Russians reach Folkestone?

They've probably got a Group Ticket on Eurostar

[Flying Hi]

With the 'Boat Season' starting again soon, it'd make a great illegal immigrant camp.

[Dave Gittins]

There is a petition on www.change.org started by Jeremy Godwin with 1,173 signatures to "Campaign to Open Manston Airport" apparently directed to "The Airlines".

[compton3bravo]

Dear old Roger Gale MP (ex pirate radio disc jockey) is leading the way, I wonder why?

[Twitcher]

https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/projects/south-east/manston-airport/
Again the go ahead is given to reopen.

[colinhunn]

Great news for the area and spotters!!

[willy wombat]

I’m all in favour of retaining as much airport infrastructure in the UK as possible but I can’t help but feel that the projections are a bit optimistic. The blurb talks of “at least 10,000 air freight movements per year”. That’s getting close to 30 a day which seems a lot.

[Paradism]

Willy, I note that from the projections 10000 per year is approx. 28 per day, meaning 14 in and 14 out. Not so many considering the opening hours are said to be 7 am to 11pm.

[DaveReidUK]

Willy, I note that from the projections 10000 per year is approx. 28 per day, meaning 14 in and 14 out. Not so many considering the opening hours are said to be 7 am to 11pm.

Business is all about matching supply and demand. Nobody is disputing the capacity side of the equation.

[Paradism]

DaveReidUK

I agree to a certain extent Dave. However, business is also about spotting an opportunity and exploiting it. As far as freight is concerned, I cannot see a company building 19 aircraft stands if they don't have some plans to ensure they are utilised. As far as pax are concerned, we must also remember that EUJet, before they were canned, were carrying 30,000 pax per month, increasing. If you want the figures they are all available on the CAA website.

As far as demand is concerned, Manston would be serving the most populous corner of the UK and can count South London, Kent, Surrey, Sussex and parts of Essex within it's catchment.

[mwm991]

UK commercial aviation needs consolidation, not more mickey mouse airports and airlines diluting the market, often also at the tax payers expense.

[SpringHeeledJack]

I'm sure I heard a local from Doncaster (overheard whilst in a queue) that Robin Hood Airport is closing and that would affect the cargo operators there who would need a new hub and logistics solution. Perhaps more of the MM airports will follow suit through no fault of their own ? Anywhere that can offer 24/7 operations would be safe obviously, so Manston would have that as well. I had also read somewhere that all regional UK airports were slated for closure by 2030 to follow the edicts of the WEF, so depending on how seriously that would be followed the "UK commercial aviation needs consolidation, not more mickey mouse airports" wish might happen. Who knows ? Not the man in the street, that's for sure!

[deedave]

EUjet and Manston failed because they were haemorrhaging money. Goldman Sachs bailed them out with £30 million on 17 Dec 2004, but 7 months later all that money had gone and the whole operation went into administration, Yes the airline carried passengers but they could only be induced to fly with ridiculously low fares. This was a lo-co model and overall the load factor was dreadful- below 40% if memory serves. The Manston strategy involves inducing investors to ignore the planning inspector report, all independent consultant reports, and 16 years of market failure. The amazing thing is that historical precedent suggests they will succeed. When it comes to Manston there is always someone ready to throw good money after bad.

[SpringHeeledJack]

With cargo only operations, the load factor would (one assumes) very high if guaranteed operations were offered to the shippers. With that in the bag the airport would/should have a good chance.

Out of interest what were the load factors for KLM when they were operating feeder flights to AMS ?

[deedave]

With cargo only operations, the load factor would (one assumes) very high if guaranteed operations were offered to the shippers. With that in the bag the airport would/should have a good chance.

Out of interest what were the load factors for KLM when they were operating feeder flights to AMS ?
Load factors for AMS were also poor. However KLM might have considered it worth it if they could poach business from LHR and LGW. Feeder flights as you say. Whether they would have chosen to do this long-term is unknown.

[SWBKCB]

With cargo only operations, the load factor would (one assumes) very high if guaranteed operations were offered to the shippers. With that in the bag the airport would/should have a good chance.



That's the $64,000 question - where is this cargo traffic coming from? The number of movements being quoted seems to be around the level that Stansted is at currently. Realistic?

[Paradism]

Difficult to say where RiverOak plans to source their cargo. USA, China and Africa must be somewhere in the mix. Cargolux may well return as they have been seen to use Luxemboug and Stanstead. The African freight was mostly veg and flowers. Flowers do not weigh much but take up a lot of volume. It is all speculation until RiverOak make more information available.

I see it has been mooted that there may be a "limited" RAF return as a dispersal site. That is a distinct possibility, been there, done it, got the tea shirt. That would really upset the nimbies, military aircraft are not required to comply with noise limitations.

Also MAY see a return of airsea rescue. Other possibilities are channel surveillance, and air ambulance. Time will tell.

[felixflyer]

Manston was also used as a training site for the airlines as well as flight training by TGA so there could be a few revenue streams coming into play once it's actually open. It's ideally situated for a training organization to offer both UK & EASA licensing if there continues to be a need for that.

I'd imagine Riveroak have been in talks with cargo operators and airlines to gauge interest and deemed it enough to go ahead. In which case this would far outweigh any report done years ago.

Listening to the most outspoken opponents of this project there appears to be 2 main arguments,

1. That there will be 747 freighters every 15 minutes screaming overhead Ramsgate causing noise and air pollution.

2. That there is no possible chance of success for a reopened Manston and there will be no freight or pax requirement to make it viable.

These 2 arguments cancel each other out since if there is no flights then there is no pollution.

[SWBKCB]

Manston was also used as a training site for the airlines as well as flight training by TGA so there could be a few revenue streams coming into play once it's actually open

All the revenue streams listed are the one's in place before the airfield shut. The main arguement of the developer seems to be that they can attract 10,000 cargo movements a year, but no indication as to how. It'll need more than a couple of fresh produce flights a week and the odd ad hoc charter

[Paradism]

Have observed over last few days, some activity at or near Ramsgate end of runway. Can’t make out what but seems to consist of some temporary buildings and some plant or equipment.

[lotus1]

Was at manston two weeks ago . Spoke to a couple of gents who where working in the history museum said rumours going around heavy plant machinery turning up soon to start on new cargo sheds also noted out side old tower large plant equipment.

[SKOJB]

Was at manston two weeks ago . Spoke to a couple of gents who where working in the history museum said rumours going around heavy plant machinery turning up soon to start on new cargo sheds also noted out side old tower large plant equipment.

All to be complete next week and planes arriving the week after!!

[ATNotts]

Listening to the most outspoken opponents of this project there appears to be 2 main arguments,

1. That there will be 747 freighters every 15 minutes screaming overhead Ramsgate causing noise and air pollution.

2. That there is no possible chance of success for a reopened Manston and there will be no freight or pax requirement to make it viable.

These 2 arguments cancel each other out since if there is no flights then there is no pollution.

Of the two the 2nd seems far more plausible than the first.

[Paradism]

Once again, an application for a judicial review against the DCO decision has been submitted.

Also, RSP has announced that RSP moves on to consultation stage in programme to secure new flight procedures for Manston. Full details available on the RSP Manston web site.

[barry lloyd]

To me at least, all this talk of Manston reactivating highlights the disparity which exists with the transport systems in this country. On the one hand, there are (apparently) moves afoot to put the airfield back into operation, (albeit generally for cargo as I understand it), whilst a perfectly well-equipped airport in the north of the country is closing down. The south-east is already overcrowded in every sense, housing, transport, both surface and air, and the M25 is just a permanent nightmare.

What this country has lacked for generations is a grown-up transport policy which is beneficial to the whole country. Yes, 10+ million people live in the Greater London area, but the remaining 57 million or so live outside it, yet here is further talk of cargo being brought into a distribution point which is far removed from most of the population centres.

[Asturias56]

its more like 25 million within 100 miles of C london.

[barry lloyd]

its more like 25 million within 100 miles of C london.

Agreed, and unfortunately, I'm one of them! The fact remains though, that there are still another 42 million dispersed around the rest of these islands.

[Paradism]

Announced today, judge rejects application for judicial review of government decision to grant DCO. What next?

[deedave]

Announced today, judge rejects application for judicial review of government decision to grant DCO. What next?
Same as before. They may or may not find the money to build an airport. And the market will reject it as it always has. Wrong location.

[DC3 Dave]

Good to see positivity. Perhaps Flybe 3 or 4 could have aircraft based here.

https://apple.news/ANv8GqAfBTi6lpvyKgy95fg

[LTNman]

Manston has a long history of being an unsuccessful airport stuck on a limb of the U.K. Nothing will change despite the hype.

[flyingman-of-kent]

OK, it could simply be a slow news day and Mail Online has only just discovered this, but this article in the Mail Online today kinda confirms earlier reports.-

Search for "Abandoned-UK-airport-set-reopen-nearly-decade-bosses-eye-budget-flights-Europe"

Personally I love the plan, I can get there in the same time it takes to travel to Gatwick but park right outside the terminal and walk across the road into the terminal. A simple stroll through the terminal and back to the car on the way back, this was where the real time was gained over Gatwick. I liked EUJet, and it was a shame they couldnt sustain it. Sadly the catchment area being only a slice of the pizza rather than the whole circle means it only serves Kent for passengers, and even the new station may be no closer than Ramsgate to the actual terminal and wont serve freight trains so they missed the point there. Almost get the idea that Network Rail were already counting their chickens with the housing development on Manston.

[LTNman]

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-kent-airports-long-awaite-281322/

[DaveReidUK]

OK, it could simply be a slow news day and Mail Online has only just discovered this, but this article in the Mail Online today kinda confirms earlier reports.-

Search for "Abandoned-UK-airport-set-reopen-nearly-decade-bosses-eye-budget-flights-Europe"

Personally I love the plan, I can get there in the same time it takes to travel to Gatwick but park right outside the terminal and walk across the road into the terminal. A simple stroll through the terminal and back to the car on the way back, this was where the real time was gained over Gatwick. I liked EUJet, and it was a shame they couldnt sustain it. Sadly the catchment area being only a slice of the pizza rather than the whole circle means it only serves Kent for passengers, and even the new station may be no closer than Ramsgate to the actual terminal and wont serve freight trains so they missed the point there. Almost get the idea that Network Rail were already counting their chickens with the housing development on Manston.

The airport that's easy to get to, but you can't fly to anywhere from ... ?

[nomilk]

If it becomes a successful airport, you won't be able to park in front anymore. If you can still park, it is very unlikely that it will be an airport for long.

[01475]

I propose to set up a virtual airline using 19 seater planes hired from people you've never heard of (at least not in a good way) to serve an initial network of Manston to Anglesey, Blackpool, Cambridge, Carlisle, Coventry, Doncaster, Gloucester, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield City, Shoreham & Swansea. The first international routes will be Galway and Waterford, but transatlantic and Asian routes will start once I I mean we order my fleet of 787s.

Funding will be provided by advance ticket sales, prepayments for training, supplier credit terms, and a mystery foreign funder Mr Nexiste-Pas.

Did I miss anything out?

[VickersVicount]

I would suggest seeking US Preclearance at any port you operate and adding Bergamo to your network via LHR.

[kcockayne]

I propose to set up a virtual airline using 19 seater planes hired from people you've never heard of (at least not in a good way) to serve an initial network of Manston to Anglesey, Blackpool, Cambridge, Carlisle, Coventry, Doncaster, Gloucester, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield City, Shoreham & Swansea. The first international routes will be Galway and Waterford, but transatlantic and Asian routes will start once I I mean we order my fleet of 787s.

Funding will be provided by advance ticket sales, prepayments for training, supplier credit terms, and a mystery foreign funder Mr Nexiste-Pas.

Did I miss anything out?
I like your sense of humour; or, are you an Air Alderney director ?

[SouthernAlliance]

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-kent-airports-long-awaite-281322/

Today is 1st Feb, not 1st Apr. Any commercial flying will not commence before 2028 at the earliest yet airport owners are ready to restart talks with LCC’s 🤣 This project will be lucky to take off full stop!

[Asturias56]

I miss the Good Doctor and his mad pro-Manston posts...................

[Asturias56]

I propose to set up a virtual airline using 19 seater planes hired from people you've never heard of (at least not in a good way) to serve an initial network of Manston to Anglesey, Blackpool, Cambridge, Carlisle, Coventry, Doncaster, Gloucester, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield City, Shoreham & Swansea. The first international routes will be Galway and Waterford, but transatlantic and Asian routes will start once I I mean we order my fleet of 787s.

Funding will be provided by advance ticket sales, prepayments for training, supplier credit terms, and a mystery foreign funder Mr Nexiste-Pas.

Did I miss anything out?
#

Can I suggest you call it FlyBe3

[LessThanSte]

Jason Unsworth could be the COO /s

(what's he up to these days?)

[Flightmech]

I propose to set up a virtual airline using 19 seater planes hired from people you've never heard of (at least not in a good way) to serve an initial network of Manston to Anglesey, Blackpool, Cambridge, Carlisle, Coventry, Doncaster, Gloucester, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield City, Shoreham & Swansea. The first international routes will be Galway and Waterford, but transatlantic and Asian routes will start once I I mean we order my fleet of 787s.

Funding will be provided by advance ticket sales, prepayments for training, supplier credit terms, and a mystery foreign funder Mr Nexiste-Pas.

Did I miss anything out?
Is that you Jason Unsworth?

[DaveReidUK]

BW wouldn't be that unambitious. :O

[01475]

I would suggest seeking US Preclearance at any port you operate and adding Bergamo to your network via LHR.

Oh gosh yes! HOW could I have forgotten this? The value brought by the fact that this isn't available to just anyone would surely guarantee success if they were willing to give it to just anyone. Do you want to be my business partner? You can help me start chosing destinations in Florida right away!

I miss the Good Doctor and his mad pro-Manston posts...................

I intend to name my first plane Dr Beau Webber.

I like your sense of humour; or, are you an Air Alderney director ?

I can only wish; but they are inspirational heroes. I don't intend to get involved in the lucrative Manston - Channel Islands market as that's likely to end in a competitive bloodbath for me.

Is that you Jason Unsworth?

Another of my heroes. I'm hoping that if I can get him onto the team he'll help me break into the Asian market.

#

Can I suggest you call it FlyBe3

Excellent suggestion. My working name was Fly Alpharcity Whoodwinx3, but to be honest I am finding it looks better on the mockups of the A380s that we're planning to use in the longer term than on the launch Let L-410.

[AirportPlanner1]

I’m working on a project to launch a new virtual airline utilising Hungarian registered props to re-establish London links to Chateauroux, Vatry and Dole. Manston is my last chance of being taken seriously by airport bosses.

[01475]

I’m working on a project to launch a new virtual airline utilising Hungarian registered props to re-establish London links to Chateauroux, Vatry and Dole. Manston is my last chance of being taken seriously by airport bosses.

And Sion in the winter? :ok:

This is the kind of foresight that aviation really needs at the moment. Chateauroux has a population of over 40,000, and is more than 200km from the coast. If only 0.5% of the population decided to go the the beach at Margate every week then that would guarantee a load factor of more than 80% on a double daily (once saturday) J32. That's before considering tourists to London, outbound tourism, freight and of course the future possibility of easy Eurostar connections to Paris if the Ashford stop is reinstated. The potential is immense.

[Asturias56]

Surely you should be considering a hub at Prestwick?

And there is no service to Kalingrad from the UK - a MASSIVE market just waiting to be filled!!!

[willy wombat]

You’re all missing the major market opportunity. While there’s no Thames crossing east of Dartford, a shuttle every 30 minutes between Manston and Southend would be a sure fire winner.

[DC3 Dave]

You’re all missing the major market opportunity. While there’s no Thames crossing east of Dartford, a shuttle every 30 minutes between Manston and Southend would be a sure fire winner.

I would agree with you, I believe there was once a regular service between Southend and Rochester that proved popular. Only problem is the Lower Thames Crossing should be open by the end of the decade. Personally, I’d still rather fly, but that’s me

[felixflyer]

Good luck to them I say.

Just because it didn't work previously doesn't mean it won't again. The population of Kent has grown by 7.6% or 112,100 people between 2011 and 2021. The way they are building new estates and even towns it's likely it will keep on growing. Add in Brexit and the growth in non-EU freight and you have a different market than previously as well as different owners with different ideas.

Hopefully, it will do well. I know I'll be using it and most people I've spoken to down here are all for it and are hoping for a decent alternative to Gatwick or Stansted. The majority of those against it seem to be from outside Kent,

[LGS6753]

The population of Kent has grown by 7.6% or 112,100 people between 2011 and 2021.
​​​​​​​Don't they prefer to travel in dinghies rather than aircraft?

[Asturias56]

" hoping for a decent alternative to Gatwick or Stansted."

this thread just keeps on giving...................... :p

[Andy_S]

"this thread just keeps on giving...................... :p

You should have read the various investment related message boards during the era in which previous Manston owner Wiggins and it's successor Planestation were quoted companies.

Any time I needed a bit of light entertainment.........

[01475]

" hoping for a decent alternative to Gatwick or Stansted."

this thread just keeps on giving...................... :p

There was a point where I thought I was being funny, but of course as always in a Manston thread the people being serious completely outdid anything anyone could reasonably come up with.

[jensdad]

I’m working on a project to launch a new virtual airline utilising Hungarian registered props to re-establish London links to Chateauroux, Vatry and Dole. Manston is my last chance of being taken seriously by airport bosses.
AirportPlanner1 is being slightly mischievous, methinks...

[Paradism]

Appeal Court hearing set for 24 April.

[Twitcher]

The next fly-in... Kent Strut Fly-in, Manston (https://flyer.co.uk/event/kent-strut-fly-in-manston/)

[Asturias56]

not really "airlines, airports and routes" is it?

[felixflyer]

Today is the day for the appeal court hearing. Fingers crossed.