With the Landrover Defender ending, do you think the Ineos Grenadier will have a roll

[NutLoose]

In the military to replace the Landrover, it looks very Landroverish and appears to be very good, see the prototype testing. I realise we have the later armoured stuff developed for the likes of Afghanistan, but as a general replacement for the Utility off-roader.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10542483/Ratcliffes-roader-driven-test-prototype-Ineos-Grenadier.html

Sir Jim Ratcliffe's off-roader DRIVEN: We test the new Ineos Grenadier close to the brand's French factory to see if the British billionaire's 4X4 is better than a Land Rover Defender

We take to the wheel of Sir Jim Ratcliffe's new Ineos Grenadier, testing a pre-production 4X4 off-road
The drive took place close to Ineos Automotive's newly-acquired factory on the French-German border
The model we drove was the 3.0-litre twin-turbo diesel, which was put to test over a quagmire-like course
Is it better than the Land Rover Defender, old and new? Find out in our early-doors first drive report

[Baldeep Inminj]

WWIII is about to start, I strongly suspect that nobody on this forum gives a **** right now.

Landrover is officially the most unreliable manufacturer in USA, Canada, and is at or near the bottom in every other nation. They are beautiful when new, and unbeatable when they work, but they are biblically unreliable and it is not a case of if breaks, but when. Just google the owners websites.
Want a solid, reliable and capable 4x4? …look anywhere other than Landrover.

[NutLoose]

Well that’s a frank response, thanks for your insight. Stiff upper lip and all that… :)

[rattman]

It seems to be more Gwagon than land rover, Gwagons are fairly popular in the military, more so now than defenders. Could be an interesting choice over the Gwagon

[Mogwi]

do you think the Ineos Grenadier will have a roll
It might have a röle. 😊

[ORAC]

I think it has a roll-bar…

[NutLoose]

It was a play on words to catch your attention… ahhh well back to the drawing board..

[chimpteaser]

I think the Toyota Hilux with some angry men and a .50cal in the back is now the most popular choice.

[SLXOwft]

Mog - I'm sure you meant rôle unless you meant a Turkish relay?;)

[Mogwi]

Sorry, blame the old eyes!😳

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Isn't Ineos run by the Brexit-tub-thumper who then decided that the EU was the best place to build his wannabe-LR? Would be a tough sell to the electorate.

Anyway, couldn't agree more with Baldeep (and the Republic of Ireland's Rangers, who were particularly glad to see the back of the LR) - dreadful vehicles, fine for 1948 but not for these days. Steyr/Daimler/Puch were building far better vehicles back in the 1970s/80s which the Omani army among others were delighted with; took ages for the UK to come to the same decision.

[Dan Gerous]

"Tower, we've rolled the Grenadier over, over", doesn't have the same ring to it. :E

[Tartiflette Fan]

Isn't Ineos run by the Brexit-tub-thumper who then decided that the EU was the best place to build his wannabe-LR? Would be a tough sell to the electorate..

He actually decided that the superbly-updated Hambach Smart factory ( newly surplus to requirements ) was a better bet that a new-build in S Wales;

[MightyGem]

Landrover is officially the most unreliable manufacturer in USA, Canada, and is at or near the bottom in every other nation
The Ozzies had a saying: If you want to out into the GAFA, take a Landrover. If you want to come back, take a Landcruiser.

[Hydromet]

The Ozzies had a saying: If you want to out into the GAFA, take a Landrover. If you want to come back, take a Landcruiser.
Ain't that the truth. Spent nearly 50 years working in the GAFA, mostly with overloaded vehicles. Landcruisers were far and away the most reliable and safe vehicles, in my experience. Never broke a half-shaft in one either. How many LR users can say that?

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Was in Oman when the LR sales team brought a few examples of the first Discovery out so people could have a look around. The FAC team took one out into the desert - pretty unimpressed, they handed it back to the LR team with their comments. Among other things it was observed that the air-con only worked for about 3 hours before packing-in. The LR people were aghast - "you tried running it for 3 hours?!!". The FAC folk then pointed out that their Toyota Tercel 4x4 estate car and the Landcruisers were all capable of similar or better cross-country desert performance, and that the air-con remained on throughout. Re "Defenders" - the sub-aqua club used to take their V8 LWB into the jebel area SE of Muscat en-route to a favourite beach. I took my Suzuki 410, with all their tanks in the back, on the same route - never had to go down to 4WD let alone low-ratio, whereas you could hear the LR straining up some of the inclines with everything selected 'on'.

The GAFA experience was shared by the SOLF unit with responsibility for the Wahiba Sands (WFR?) - they sourced as many Series 1 Landcruisers as they could find - it was the only vehicle that could handle the terrain. LR half-shafts - guess what the main item that used to have to be flown out to A and D Sqns during the First Gulf Unpleasantness used to be?

You'd think I'd have learned from this, but no - when subsequently posted to the land of BFG and discount motors, I thought the high-driving position of the Disco would be a bonus in a RHD vehicle over there. It was - but I hadn't factored in the delay before Natocars could hand over the vehicle as their inspection found 151 (they kindly itemised them for me) pre-delivery faults. Replaced it after the standard 12 months with a LWB RAV4 - never looked back. Just regret the year spent polluting Germany with all those diesel fumes.

[NutLoose]

I did a Toyota off road day and the guy there doing the instructing said he would choose a Landcruiser then a landrover and Gwagen, the BMW he didn't rate at all because when the electronics failed he said it reverted to one wheel drive.

[layman]

Just an observation from the edges of the GAFA

Longreach: having my last flat white for 650km, (next one in Mt Isa) I counted cars 😬.

About 7 out 10 were Toyota 4WD of various types, mainly Hilux and Troopies

[MightyGem]

Never broke a half-shaft in one either. How many LR users can say that?
Yes, been in a LR limping home with a broken shaft.

[Less Hair]

Better get the old Mercedes G-Class tooling from Austria (Steyr Daimler Puch) and rebuild the "Wolf" military vehicle. BTW: Developed on request of the Shah of Iran originally.

[Asturias56]

"over half of all Landrovers built are still on the road - but the AA expect to get to them before dark"

[layman]

Had a chat with a tow truck driver about car reliability.

He said he’d offered his friend ‘frequent tow miles’ for his Land Rover ...

[etudiant]

Had a chat with a tow truck driver about car reliability.

He said he’d offered his friend ‘frequent tow miles’ for his Land Rover ...

Just very puzzling.
Land Rover is an iconic brand, has gone through several product cycles, has had powerful corporate owners and yet poor reliability remains the constant concern.
Given the undeniably excellent performance of the product, it seems reliability should also be achievable, given adequate emphasis.

[NutLoose]

The only reason the long wheelbase Landrover is a 4x4 is the turning circle is so crap you end up going off road to turn it round.

[Hydromet]

When I first started driving Landies in the '60s there was nothing else comparable around. They worked, apart from the half-shafts breaking, because they were simple, as most things built in a blacksmith's workshop are. When Toyotas came along, they put LR in the shade. I believe the first Range Rovers were fairly reliable, although I never drove one. It seems that they couldn't make anything that was in any way complicated, reliably.

[Asturias56]

Its basically an immediate post -war design and the reliability is good - for that time. problem has been a lack of investment to upgrade - but then it sold well so why bother.

IIRC when Tata took over Jaguar LR they discovered the management disappeared before lunch on Friday and weren't around at all on Mondays - in other words a classic UK manufacturing operation.

[dervish]

management disappeared before lunch on Friday and weren't around at all on Mondays - in other words a classic UK manufacturing operation.

Perk of the job in Main Building!

[canard68]

The UAS students borrowed our Air Traffic Landrover for a night exercise and returned it to its spot next to the tower . Next morning I opened the drivers door and it fell off.
I then started up and set off minus door and the steering wheel was no longer connected to the front wheels .

[BEagle]

With any wind, the gutless piece of junk we had on 1312 Flt at MPA would actually slow down when changed into top gear whilst we were driving as fast as possible down the RW to the aircraft when called to cockpit readiness! All the blunties had relatively modern vehicles, but the aircrew had to use knackered old heaps.

I went back a couple of years later as Sqn Ldr (Air) and was appalled to find that the situation hadn't improved. So I raised the issue at the next 'Theatre Vehicle Liability Meeting', pointing out that it was totally unacceptable for AD scrambles to be compromised in this way. I was assured that it would be 'reviewed'....I'll bet it wasn't. I also asked why relatively new Landrovers had a stencil reading 'This vehicle is not to be used off-road' on the dashboard and was told that it was some warranty issue. What idiot agreed to that?

Having had experience of the 'Six Pack' at Incirlik, I recommended that the flight should be given a Defender 110 Double Cab as the next vehicle. I'll be that never happened either!

[Tartiflette Fan]

Just very puzzling.
Land Rover is an iconic brand, has gone through several product cycles, has had powerful corporate owners and yet poor reliability remains the constant concern.
Given the undeniably excellent performance of the product, it seems reliability should also be achievable, given adequate emphasis.

There was a long thread on exactly this topic on a car forum if it interests you.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/why-is-land-rover-still-such-an-unreliable-marque.559902/#post-4819669

[etudiant]

There was a long thread on exactly this topic on a car forum if it interests you.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/why-is-land-rover-still-such-an-unreliable-marque.559902/#post-4819669

Thank you for the link.
It suggests that underinvestment remained a problem through both the BMW as well as the Tata ownership.

[Evalu8ter]

We should be recieving Oshkosh JLTVs - proper protected mobility with extensive weapons potential. But politics and DE&S prevarication has put a spanner in the works……

[Tartiflette Fan]

We should be recieving Oshkosh JLTVs - proper protected mobility with extensive weapons potential. But politics and DE&S prevarication has put a spanner in the works……

The range of discussion is so wide that I cannot imagine who "we " is in this case. Care to specify - and with a little more background if possible.?

[NutLoose]

I drove a Lightweight with a short throw gearbox once, the gear lever had snapped off so we drove it to MT with a pair of mole grips clamped to the stub.

[MPN11]

Stanley memory. The BCU Landy lost its prop-shaft on the airfield grassy bit. Replacement vehicles were on a priority list, and the BCU one was way down (“ATC has others they could use”). My super BCU Cpl walked to MT, gathered the necessary bits and fixed it at the ‘roadside’. Where did we find such men back in ‘83? And where are they now?

[trim it out]

We should be recieving Oshkosh JLTVs - proper protected mobility with extensive weapons potential. But politics and DE&S prevarication has put a spanner in the works……
We've only just got rid of Panther. Last thing we need is another 4x4 on steroids when we can't even get a workable APC to the start line at the minute.

[Geriaviator]

Sorry to say it but Rover's a dead dog. I owned every mark from I to III except the forward control, each mark gave progressively more trouble as they were improved. Still regard them with affection the way one regards an old dog. I think the Ineos is overpriced for what it is. Can't beat a Toyota pickup, with or without a pair of fifties mounted on the back.

[dervish]

We should be recieving Oshkosh JLTVs - proper protected mobility with extensive weapons potential. But politics and DE&S prevarication has put a spanner in the works……

My recall is that DE&S inherited the decision to cancel LR replacement. You need to go back further.

[Evalu8ter]

TF, ‘we’ as in the UK Army under the MRVP project (sone 700+ vehicles initially). JLTV was the preferred option, but the delays to Boxer Main Gate / issues with Ajax pushed the decision into the maelstrom of 2019 GE, Covid and the long delayed Defence Review - all conspiring to push the final decision to the right. I’ve had a go in it at DVD Millbrook and I must say I agree with Top Gear….https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/oshkosh-jltv-driving-us-armys-new-war-machine. It makes the LR seem fragile andelderly….

[Haraka]

I recall a Rock LR stuck by the side of a woodland track during an RAFG exercise in the mid '70's . Bonnet was up and a Sgt was buried underneath as far his waist muttering obscenities.
" What's the problem Sergeant ? " Asked a passing Regiment Junior Officer..

"F*cking F*ckers F*CKED! "

A succinct response under the circumstances..

[dervish]

My recall is that DE&S inherited the decision to cancel LR replacement. You need to go back further.

Apologies. It's been pointed out to me I'm confusing DE&S with the older DPA. The Army's decision to cancel LR replacement was made in the 1990s when there was MoD(PE).

[pr00ne]

Sorry to say it but Rover's a dead dog. I owned every mark from I to III except the forward control, each mark gave progressively more trouble as they were improved. Still regard them with affection the way one regards an old dog. I think the Ineos is overpriced for what it is. Can't beat a Toyota pickup, with or without a pair of fifties mounted on the back.

Do you realise how many they make and sell every day? In multiple factories.