FFS & EFB - 'Spoofing' GPS position to match simulator realtime position

[Aucky]

Hi all,

Is anyone aware of an app or tech-tip which can trick the GPS location in an iPad to match the output simulated position of a commercial full flight simulator? I know that desktop PC flight sims such as x-plane and flight sim 2020 can integrate with some moving maps such as ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, FlyQ etc in 'simulator mode', but each of these is specifically coded to interface with the home flight sim, which is not much help when using a commercial FFS. It also limits the apps available - there is no such support for JeppView, ACANS, or other commercially used apps (to my knowledge).

It seems to me that if there were a way to hack/override the iPads native 'GPS position' with a simulated position as received from a commercial FFS it would allow all apps on that device to simultaneously behave as though they were in that position without having to have a dedicated 'simulator mode'. There are apps which can fake the position of an iPhone/iPad to match a user selected location, so it must be possible in principle, but I'm not aware of any which have been developed to receive the realtime output position from a FFS and to use this position to 'spoof' the iPads native position reference. I'm told most commercial simulators do output thier position by WiFi/Bluetooth, but I don't know if there is commonality to the format.

Do we have any Rotorhead tech enthusiasts, app developers, or software engineers here who can advise on the feasibility of this? I anticipate that numerous apple security protections would make over-riring the GPS position problematical, but it does seem possible, though they all seem to require JailBreaking the device, or interfacing with a PC so the position data flow may need to be simulator-realtime-position>PC>iPad?

https://www.tenorshare.net/ads/ianygo.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjJOQBhCkARIsAEKMtO1sWTqmNMcZblFvdM 4pyzd08-nkmAm89cSUTQnNb9wCIesYwwb6mVgaAnCIEALw_wcB
https://www.imyfone.com/change-location/fake-iphone-gps-location-without-jailbreak/

Failing this, the other option is to ask the app developers of individual EFB apps to build in a 'simulator mode' which can interface with the simulator and optionally use the output simulator position rather than taking the GPS position. Are many operators using solutions to achieve this within their sim training/checking?

Cheers :ok:

[aa777888]

If you are operating in a full-fledged, commercial flight simulator environment, then first you have to solve the problem of obtaining the requisite position, velocity and time (PVT) data from the simulator. That promises to be an even bigger problem. Such systems are not exactly open source. Do you have access to that data already?

If you look at the marketplace for position spoofing in both iOS and Android environments, you'll find that pretty much all solutions are associated with achieving only a fake static position, which alone is sufficient to deter tracking or to breach location-based restrictions on access to information and services. Thus there doesn't appear to be anything in the marketplace to help you.

The "A" answer would be to utilize a commercial GNSS simulator (example (https://www.spirent.com/products/gnss-satellite-simulator-gss6300m)) that broadcasts an actual signal inside the commercial simulator facility, which would then be picked up naturally by the GNSS receivers in iOS and Android products. The GNSS simulator would need to be interfaced to the flight simulation software, which again brings us back to Problem Number 1. And you'd need to make certain that the simulator and building structure, and GNSS power levels, are such that the simulated signal does not escape from the facility lest you interfere with the real world.

I suspect that if you contact the maker of the flight simulator you might find that they already have a relationship with a manufacturer of GNSS simulation products.

[Aucky]

If you are operating in a full-fledged, commercial flight simulator environment, then first you have to solve the problem of obtaining the requisite position, velocity and time (PVT) data from the simulator. That promises to be an even bigger problem. Such systems are not exactly open source. Do you have access to that data already?

If you look at the marketplace for position spoofing in both iOS and Android environments, you'll find that pretty much all solutions are associated with achieving only a fake static position, which alone is sufficient to deter tracking or to breach location-based restrictions on access to information and services. Thus there doesn't appear to be anything in the marketplace to help you.

The "A" answer would be to utilize a commercial GNSS simulator (example (https://www.spirent.com/products/gnss-satellite-simulator-gss6300m)) that broadcasts an actual signal inside the commercial simulator facility, which would then be picked up naturally by the GNSS receivers in iOS and Android products. The GNSS simulator would need to be interfaced to the flight simulation software, which again brings us back to Problem Number 1. And you'd need to make certain that the simulator and building structure, and GNSS power levels, are such that the simulated signal does not escape from the facility lest you interfere with the real world.

I suspect that if you contact the maker of the flight simulator you might find that they already have a relationship with a manufacturer of GNSS simulation products.

Thanks aa777888,

I don't yet have the specifics of how the position data is coded or accessible, but I'm told that it has been done previously. I'm awaiting further information on this. I suspect the most straightforward solution will be to discuss with the EFB app developers how to decode the provided position data, and to allow it's use in 'simulation mode', which may be okay for some EFB applications, but other larger applications may not be so interested in accomodating this bespoke request, particlarly if the position data is not in a well recognised format (such as GDL90 (https://www.foreflight.com/connect/spec/)).

I hadn't thought of actually transmitting a generated GPS signal for the receiver to detect, but this may cause other issues, particularly given the locality of multiple other simulators in the same hall.

Cheers

[TwinHueyMan]

FRASCA has a built in Bluetooth location transmitter on their sims that works with iPad and Android tablets seamlessly.

I’ve also heard of setups where the GPS in the sim (GTN650 or similar) links to the tablet to provide location services just like the actual GPS units do in aircraft, though this would likely restrict you to using the Garmin Pilot app.

Mike

[RVDT]

Be handy to know what model and avionics install is already in the sim.

Collins make a "Tablet Interface Module (https://www.collinsaerospace.com/-/media/project/collinsaerospace/collinsaerospace-website/product-assets/marketing/t/tablet-interface-module/tablet-interface-module.pdf?rev=0aad7a2341dc44c5bb75e21c84bdb8f3)" that could talk to the avionics bus in the sim possibly?

DAC also makes the GDC64 (https://dacint.com/products/gdc64/) which may be another option

[donner89]

Flight Safety intl. have this capability in the 2 AW139 FFS sims in Lafayette. It works in conjunction with Foreflight and displays real time positioning corresponding to the simulation. Very useful tool

[9Aplus]

You must look for NMEA data simulator and propagate that through your sim data bus of any known standard from RS232 and up...to AIRINC 429 level.
The real GPS data simulation within closed Faraday cage is possible too.
Have some experience using this SW package https://github.com/osqzss/gps-sdr-sim
On Lime SDR USB Hardware, with some additional SW blocks, you can can "move" around easy.

[aa777888]

FRASCA has a built in Bluetooth location transmitter on their sims that works with iPad and Android tablets seamlessly.

I’ve also heard of setups where the GPS in the sim (GTN650 or similar) links to the tablet to provide location services just like the actual GPS units do in aircraft, though this would likely restrict you to using the Garmin Pilot app.

Mike
That is brilliant. Definitely better than my suggestion. Easier, cheaper, etc.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

That is brilliant. Definitely better than my suggestion. Easier, cheaper, etc.
I've experience of this in a FFS as well, it's technically easily doable and a credible aim operator should be forward leaning in doing it. However, if you're the one specifically asking for and paying for the upgrade expect it to be $$$$ as the system will be entirely proprietary and they won't let anyone external anywhere near it.

Should just be "a thing" now that you walk into the SIM, connect to the Bluetooth GPS and off you go. Nearly everyone uses some kind of positionally aware EFB these days.

[gipsymagpie]

The Airbox Runway HD/ACANS EFB app has X-plane mode. One conversation with a SIM engineer and he added some code that afternoon to our sim to output the right position stream onto the sim network...EFB connected to SIM network....voila! Fully operational EFB in the sim.

I think many EFB apps have probably already cracked the PC flight sim to EFB problem leaving you just the FFS to PC flight sim formatting problem. I think a fake GPS signal is nice but overcomplicated.

[NutLoose]

Did a quick search, Is this what you are after?

https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines-train

https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines (https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines-train)


..

[aa777888]

Did a quick search, Is this what you are after?

https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines-train

https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines (https://bad-elf.com/pages/airlines-train)
..
Again, brilliant! Bad Elf is a great company, smart engineering, bought some stuff from them in the past. You won't go wrong with them.

[Oogle]

The Thales Reality H AW139 simulator at LifeFlight in Australia does this. The sim has an iPad provided which shows the “aircraft” positioned on whichever app is used at the time. Most Aus pilots use an app called OzRunways but Foreflight works as well. Fantastic setup.

The iPad must be connected to the sim via a wifi address.