too soon "increase to retirement age"?

[ruhroa]

Good Morning all
Not trying to get the youngin's all stirred up but..........
As a US Pilot I can continue my profession past age 65 unless airline. my reason for wanting to do that is I live in a free (sort of) society so its a "non YA business"
The issue of course is "ICAO" as such no commercial pilot activities once you reach 65 years of age. Now where I live that is pure age discrimination but where ICAO is it is "too bad"
so just asking .......... Has there been any talk about raising the max-age limit for multi-crew aircraft past the age of 65? UK? thank you for your professional answers.

[BizJetJock]

I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago where this was raised with a senior UK CAA person. He said there are no plans to raise the age limit for commercial ops, partly because they have stats showing a step increase in medical conditions likely to cause incapacitation after 65.

[ruhroa]

That is disappointing. For me, it will be an inconvenience when I do hit 65. I will have to either find something smaller to fly go contract on a private jet. I saw the study ICAO did a couple of years ago and the results were "inconclusive". It simply amazes me how arbitrary the rules can be. It is annoying that in today's cockpit the advances make the job so much less demanding in some areas and also that the retirement age is non-existent for other people who do much demanding work. IE Doctors ems etc. Anyway thanks fr the reply. cheers

[Globally Challenged]

Not that I expect to be relying on it, but I won’t be able to access my state pension for nearly 3 years after my EASA / ICAO mandated retirement. That seems odd to me.

[rudestuff]

I wouldn't worry too much. Pretty soon you'll be allowed to 'identify' as whatever age you like. And we'll all be legally required to accept that BS.

[Moonwalker]

Good Morning all
Not trying to get the youngin's all stirred up but..........
As a US Pilot I can continue my profession past age 65 unless airline. my reason for wanting to do that is I live in a free (sort of) society so its a "non YA business"
The issue of course is "ICAO" as such no commercial pilot activities once you reach 65 years of age. Now where I live that is pure age discrimination but where ICAO is it is "too bad"
so just asking .......... Has there been any talk about raising the max-age limit for multi-crew aircraft past the age of 65? UK? thank you for your professional answers.

Guess it's more likely we will see lower retirement age for pilots going forward.... or should be..... The stats we have today are based on people who have flown 3-500 hrs per year and 7-900 per year last 10 years. With the young generation getting older and having averaged 7-900 hrs per year from day 1, it could have an impact on the health that will be seen in the years to come. Not to mention the additional radiation exposure that the new airframes gives you when cruising at 40-43000 ft. Most radiation research done in the airline business was done 40 years ago with aircrafts usually flown 10 000 ft lower than now and annual hourly flown, half of what a standard pilot flies today.

[His dudeness]

radiation monitoring is done in Germany for at least 15 years now, more likely 20 years. Although it is not real monitoring but calculating from the flight path time/date and FL.

We do it as well (NCC) and we are not even commercial. To the best of my knowledge, nothing has been concluded yet....

[Moonwalker]

radiation monitoring is done in Germany for at least 15 years now, more likely 20 years. Although it is not real monitoring but calculating from the flight path time/date and FL.

We do it as well (NCC) and we are not even commercial. To the best of my knowledge, nothing has been concluded yet....

Radiation monitoring is in place in all commercial ops by law, but that is just to make sure you don't go over 6 ms per year. The interesting part is that aviation crews are receiving more radiation per year than nuclear and x ray personel, still we are not classified as radiation workers and not carrying personal dosimeters. Perhaps as the calculating software is very conservative.

[EatMyShorts!]

....or because the industry would have to ground us 6 months into the year and hire more people to fly their planes during the remaining 6 months of the year!

[172510]

will have to either find something smaller to fly go contract on a private jet.
Most private jets, at least in Europe, are operated under part CAT rules, (I suspect that's a matter of Fuel tax and VAT) meaning 65 is the limit.
Apart from instructing, what can you do after 65?

[ruhroa]

Domestically in the USA no age limit except airlines/Cargo part 121 rule. Over here its called age discrimination.

[what next]

Apart from instructing, what can you do after 65?

There are quite a few privatly owned and operated jets as well as corporate ones, which don't do charter work, and therefore can fly under part NCC. Theoretically one can fly for any of these until either the doctor or the type rating examiner puts an end to it. Large corporations however, at least where I live, will have a hard time explaining to their works council (not sure if that's a good google translation for "Betriebsrat") and trade unions why they keep employing pensioners at the same time as applications of young pilots pile up on every desk. Anyway, these jobs are usually not advertised and if they want you to fly for them they know how to find you.

[ruhroa]

Hi
a year after posting i was wondering if any talk yet of increasing permissible flight after age 65 as a commercial/charter pilot?
i had heard that IATA members were requesting it ….. i guess ICAO next meeting thIs September

[Central Scrutinizer]

Can't answer OP directly but on a similar note, flying Bizjets in EASA-land under Part NCC, as a private and single pilot operation there's no age restriction on the commander.
This combined with the fact that many private operators want to cut costs results in several bizjets flying around with one pilot. Nothing against age but I wouldn't want to fly a high performance aircraft on my own at 30, much less at 70. An incapacitation is a real possibility and it doesn't struck me as wise to do so.
I'm surprised that there aren't more incidents/accidents of bizjets as a consequence of incapacitation of "old" single pilot.

OP: If you're older than 65 and wish to continue flying professionally, look at non-commercial operation. There must be plenty of opportunities!

[ruhroa]

Can't answer OP directly but on a similar note, flying Bizjets in EASA-land under Part NCC, as a private and single pilot operation there's no age restriction on the commander.
This combined with the fact that many private operators want to cut costs results in several bizjets flying around with one pilot. Nothing against age but I wouldn't want to fly a high performance aircraft on my own at 30, much less at 70. An incapacitation is a real possibility and it doesn't struck me as wise to do so.
I'm surprised that there aren't more incidents/accidents of bizjets as a consequence of incapacitation of "old" single pilot.

OP: If you're older than 65 and wish to continue flying professionally, look at non-commercial operation. There must be plenty of opportunities!

I totally agree a jet should not be single pilot at any age if operating into/out of a busy airport or area.
My point and the main question is referencing the international consequences to "charter" pilots who are part of a crew operating in and out of ICAO states were the CPT or Co CPT is over 65

[Right Hand Thread]

I was at a meeting a couple of weeks ago where this was raised with a senior UK CAA person. He said there are no plans to raise the age limit for commercial ops, partly because they have stats showing a step increase in medical conditions likely to cause incapacitation after 65.

That's odd, I heard recently from someone with close contact with the CAA that they have all the data required and were considering an increase in the retirement age.

[Cloudee]

Age discrimination is illegal in Australia, even for pilots. I know a couple of Qantas guys who went from international to domestic after 65. There are no age restrictions for commercial ops within the country if you keep your medical. The sky hasn’t fallen in, it’s not raining old farts. Hopefully the US and UK and ICAO will follow soon.

[oldpax]

I am a non aviation pensioner.I was cast out from job in 2013 after a heart problem,I was passed medically fit for work.No work came my way after this!So the bit about " no age discrimination" is a load of nonsense! I had worked on seven projects for the same company but having a stent put in was enough for them to get rid of me(contractor).