XH558 hangar plans scrapped

[NutLoose]

Totally expected here, It just became another dead Vulcan languishing at an airfield at the end of its flying seasons. Wrong final destination too, somewhere like Elvington where she would have been accessible and able to run for the public was a sensible location, not a commercial airport.
Shame really and part of the Lottery funding was to have an end of game plan in place, one hopes it does not effect future aviation bids.
Perhaps they should have thought about funding when they bought that damned Canberra then lately the one for sale in the US to swop noses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-60245294

[ex82watcher]

Totally tongue in cheek Nutloose,I was going to ask if you had morphed into Spoc? By coincidence,Leonard Nimmoy's 'final season' was in 2015 too.

[GeeRam]

Totally expected here, I just became another dead Vulcan languishing at an airfield at the end of its flying seasons. Wrong final destination too, somewhere like Elvington where she would have been accessible and able to run for the public was a sensible location, not a commercial airport.


Ironically, the reason VTS rejected the idea of '558 going to Elvington, was because YAM couldn't offer a permanent inside home for it.........
So, no different to what they've ended up with at Doncaster then :ugh:
Last accounts indicated VTS income was £2m......which is what they need to raise for the hanger..............but expenditure was £1.2m..........including £633,000 on advertising....astonishing.

At least had it gone to Elvington, there was a chance that once VTS got wound up (as it surely will eventually do sooner or later) there would have been a better chance of volunteer groups looking after it, than will be the case at Doncaster. The whole sorry situation was predicted by many, but VTS believed their own hype and BS. At least when they scrap it, it will provide decent parts for the other two live examples.

[Herod]

Although she doesn't even run, 598 is safely under cover and looked after at Cosford.

[Compass Call]

May as well cut the nose off and donate it to a museum to be preserved.
Then sell the rest to the scrappy. Might be able to sell the engines for conversion to power plants for generators.

[ShyTorque]

I’d have thought because of its (presumably) good condition and individual history it might be better off being exchanged for one already in a museum.

[NutLoose]

I don’t think you can pull a Vulcan apart to move it, I think the wing is all one bit and if you could I seriously doubt a wing would be road transportable as unlike a conventional wing that might fit length ways it’s triangular.

​​​​​​….

[Compass Call]

Shy Torque
How would you move a Vulcan if you can't fly it???

[ShyTorque]

Shy Torque
How would you move a Vulcan if you can't fly it???

I wouldn’t want to. ;)

[ZH875]

XL318 was dismantled at Scampton and transported by road to RAFM Hendon where it was put back together.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

If it was 'only' 6.5m to get it back to airworthy in the first place, and presuming most of that is still ok, how much for a bare minimum to 'hop' to someplace else more suitable?

[pasta]

I’d have thought because of its (presumably) good condition and individual history it might be better off being exchanged for one already in a museum.
I heard that a lot of original equipment was removed as part of the return to flight. Assuming that's correct, the ones already in museums may be more historically significant. It was, after all, built as a strategic bomber, not a display aircraft.

[Evalu8ter]

Indeed Pasta - it is now, sadly, neither fish nor fowl. The expensive mods needed for RtF make it a poor reference example, and the Vulcan has a disproportionately large surviving population (thanks to an enlightened disposal policy) including 3 ‘live’ airframes. Even when, inevitably, many become corroded hulks and are scrapped on H&S grounds, there are examples inside at Hendon, Duxford and Cosford. My opinion was always that Finni….er, Doncaster, was the wrong place for her once her flying days were done. Elvington is, probably, the most major UK collection without a Vulcan, but, perhaps, she would be a better fit at St Athan? Trouble is the cost of a road move would be prohibitive (unless VTTS used the remaining funds to pay for it) - I can’t realistically see a ferry permit being issued, even one flight only with gear locked down….

[GeeRam]

If it was 'only' 6.5m to get it back to airworthy in the first place, and presuming most of that is still ok, how much for a bare minimum to 'hop' to someplace else more suitable?

Not going to happen.

[martine]

Oh you're a depressing lot aren't you?

XH558 is in 'airworthy' condition (not that it's allowed to fly!) which is better than ALL other Vulcans. The engines are started and cycled to 'full...ish' power - which again is better than most other Vulcans.

The letter I received from the vulcan trustees was surprising - even as a supporter I wasn't aware of the deadline to raise the £2.4m needed (end of 2021) to continue with the lease and the initial hangar design etc. They raised half a million £ and there's the problem. There's an informative FAQ section on the vulcantothesky website explaining why Elvington & Bruntingthorpe weren't suitable.

I don't believe the Canberra was paid for by Vulcan funds...it's a separate project.

I am still hopeful the hangar project can be resurrected - even though it's unlikely...you never know!

In the letter they say there's a period of 'reflection' while they consider what to do next...I'm not hopeful but you never know...perhaps a wealthy benefactor will be found.

[NutLoose]

Read page7

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/WrSUNI6_BoH90Yt2Y5k5zrM1oZ5cNd4mQP6SAaWz5_E/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3KVFADALO%2F20220206%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220206T200102Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEIr%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCW V1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQCFRJRIUb9Q%2BuG%2FXoNUhdADwHEkpBCpzCefi6 fga7CXnQIhAKCbW0y6gDBu2XuIwuaF3Bvrl%2BvGs9EsqJi44HqeJIpKKoME CML%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEQBBoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgwq FIngzD8tYC%2FLbKMq1wPhX3Pa1Av5saQClJenZdIV4eV5KDJBDG9kGnPBS% 2FvVjvte4RgNEdu5uRBqChBcSEXP5jWIvaU7r2VEtiSBsCGmRgmD6%2FkhJx E3poGIm5ScYX7xe2AvPP3XPb2BZcpdZWD%2B59OVhlaQNA1FYJ8G7jOCtxy1 OfAE6M6QGlTjZLXEGyzB2L0qN0VriGFP%2FOJ0XqEPPMTirVldRIWq%2FRJp w2pFmfciDgAqfTegZyGrjem4dDBK9k3uHtA3xXLQR5tq1fSNK2R9GeAWz%2F fgDNYgJgvTjY%2FoMuXk58pZkcTuFnasee%2B71A20svvlSJtZoSioLY1Xwd 383a1N%2F8JWKcXQuNEyGsAZiMGUtY2SdvvA1ZD9%2FLNADivDWIpEa3XtYR 33tkiKLzlz3t2HhScW2Sc1nLqFPK7b0Qeffw0YeJdDNj%2FAu1TMeQ02AF4u XzxRxnw7%2FTOTf2JR8ghj5vZhv9ROCGBms6QYzM0FqjQAEMJUO3iN2qyiGl i%2F0IWcN8%2FXzxvX5Im3pTRrDw4ZHfX0W98FN9rwijSTyx9bBEsrtJVL68 AjnEzg4uQHSgiTL8Fon2XZ7QVpqoFvGrK%2BLopI7pAqrSEWZQW7Ixiyvx6w %2FF%2Bmw4C%2BfJdcn8vy%2BPEw%2B4OAkAY6pAEXpxNugbQVldOusFXyzF 2lHVF31Bq6ehTWSndWDee29Oe3QUELhIITnfEiRZyVapXdqERAGMcxQk8fBI MYpZhT8reYzA%2FmTxIeXhjGyOIk7b%2Bz2uuD0X%2BMf%2BOStS7fU%2BiF WeaefXlPEvTdmZIqi9fftiomDYVtjfdqQx5IegES97OU2Hq2b7Osf5h0WAQd %2FsEwMV5VOAwn6225ObICqmGTXZ%2BwsQ%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document. pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=05e85c34396eb23af937dbeedb67e19d453c3d1da21e0950a7 155e212b366c51


Totall revenues for the YEAR up until 31 Oct 20 was £2,348,262 they spent £1,416,590! With a assets of £1,791,617, the name under the wing brought in £1.5 mil, what are they spending it all on?

They own the Canberra and it’s in the accounts so they by ypthe looks of it bought it.

[jumpseater]

Oh you're a depressing lot aren't you?

XH558 is in 'airworthy' condition (not that it's allowed to fly!) which is better than ALL other Vulcans. The engines are started and cycled to 'full...ish' power - which again is better than most other Vulcans
snip

I don't believe the Canberra was paid for by Vulcan funds...it's a separate project.


.

Whilst not cheerful the above comments regarding the aircraft and it’s future are in my opinion realistic.
Engine runs are done on 558 I’d estimate once per quarter. The aircraft is stored externally (since 2017) and it’s rare any maintenance is visibly taking place outside the periods it’s prepared for engine runs. Whilst it occasionally taxi’s under its own power (low speed on taxiways), on engine run days, it’s unrealistic to think it will ever fly again. On its penultimate flight (after Shoreham) it was rolled twice, outside its design restrictions and permit to fly permission, which was not reported. With that operational ‘legacy’, I can’t imagine any authorising body/design authority ever stepping back up to assist a return to flight, even if a one off.

The Canberra purchase came as a surprise to VTTS members as I recall, it certainly raised questions about what funds paid for it, which I don’t recall being clearly answered.

https://vulcantothesky.org/news/record-breaking-canberra-wk163-to-be-reunited-with-cockpit/
It is owned by VTTS, and since 2017 at least has been stored externally. See G-CTTS.
https://www.caa.co.uk/aircraft-register/g-info/search-g-info/

As far as a benefactor stepping in to save it, it’s not happened yet after searching for many years, why would one appear now?

edit : spellin

[NutLoose]

I believe they also may have bought another Canberra at auction in the US for the nose

here you go, so much for using the raised funding to hangar the Vulcan.

https://vulcantothesky.org/news/record-breaking-canberra-wk163-to-be-reunited-with-cockpit/

[GeeRam]

As far as a benefactor stepping in to save it, it’s not happened yet after searching for many years, why would one appear now?


They won't appear until after VTS is wound up ;)
VTS are still ably demonstrating an excellent ability in being about to squander cash on everything except the very thing they are supposed to be spending it on.......so why on earth would any benefactor give them any money?
I'm still astonished that anyone is still giving them any money after all this time. People need their heads examining.

[Addlepate]

Read page7

Totall revenues for the YEAR up until 31 Oct 20 was £2,348,262 they spent £1,416,590! With a assets of £1,791,617, the name under the wing brought in £1.5 mil, what are they spending it all on?

They own the Canberra and it’s in the accounts so they by ypthe looks of it bought it.

Link doesn't seem to work, but I guess it's the accounts - here at the charities commission site:

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_ CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=2&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&p_p_resource_id=%2Faccounts-resource&p_p_cacheability=cacheLevelPage&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetail sPortlet_objectiveId=A11342340&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetail sPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Faccounts-and-annual-returns&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetail sPortlet_priv_r_p_organisationNumber=4004310

[NutLoose]

Odd that, but yes, same report.

[bobward]

As a rather cynical spotter I seem to recall that 'urgent requests for funds' came out annually with the Christmas cards. Now that Dr Plemming is no longer with us, perhaps to driving force has gone,
along with the funding. After years of crying wolf, maybe it's finally arrived.

As an aside, didn't they also have a refurbished Swift as part of the collection. What has happened to this?

[NutLoose]

That was privately owned and moved on to his home, details below, (take out the gaps)

https://www.thunde r-and- lightnings.co. uk/swift/survivor.php?id=160

[reds & greens]

From an (unbiased and independent), perspective, to many the project was always a desperate 'money pit'...

[NutLoose]

It was a first I believe for the lottery to be funding an aircraft, prior to that they only seemed to fund steam trains etc.. I just hope that it does not affect future funding as part of it was I think the requirement to have a home for it when it’s flying career ended, something that to date hasn’t happened.

[Bengo]

It was a first I believe for the lottery to be funding an aircraft, prior to that they only seemed to fund steam trains etc.. I just hope that it does not affect future funding as part of it was I think the requirement to have a home for it when it’s flying career ended, something that to date hasn’t happened.

I believe the regulatory regime for heritage steam is somewhat simpler to work with, longer established and better understood by the lottery.

As examples, there is no requirement for steam boilers to have a dedicated design organisation behind them all the time, only when a major repair or wholly new one is needed, as with Tornado or the Gresley P2 projects, for example. There are insurance driven requirements, sure, but these are long established and supported by panels of boiler inspectors, repair designers and repair workshops. There is a good range of choice and there is enough similar work for these skills to be needed every day in similar fields.

Many rail vehicles come with grandfather rights which have no real aviation parallel and there is again a choice of Vehicle Acceptance Bodies to help deal with new things like On Train Monitoring requirements.
A variety of potential homes for elderly steam locos exists, with a well established process of getting them between homes even if they are not allowed to run on Network Rail. Not something that can be said about large aircraft that cannot now fly, but which you want to fly again in future.

Once you are into actually flying large, complex aviation heritage there simply is not the scale to justify the infrastructure needed to satisfy the regulatory requirements. I cannot see the lottery again supporting anything as complicated as the flying Vulcan. Unfortunately.

N

[Davef68]

One of the original HLF conditions was for her to be retired to Duxford after her display life was finished. That was always a bit strange, as Duxford had a Vulcan already.

[Speedywheels]

Reading the latest news about the probable demise of Doncaster Sheffield airport - https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637626-doncaster-sheffield-3-a-14.html

Looks like ZH558 is going to be surrounded by housing estate(s). Is there any way they can get it out of there, presumably by road?

[NutLoose]

They could always rename it RAF Finningley, plenty of room, a nice newish terminal to stick the Voyagers in front of, frees up room at Brize Norton, plenty of hangarage, central for troop movements and even has a Vulcan you can stuff on the main gate. They might need to put up a domestic area though.

:E

[WB627]

They could always rename it RAF Finningley, plenty of room, a nice newish terminal to stick the Voyagers in front of, frees up room at Brize Norton, plenty of hangarage, central for troop movements and even has a Vulcan you can stuff on the main gate. They might need to put up a domestic area though.

:E

There must be a 5* hotel in Doncaster :E

[NutLoose]

This seems suitable. 3 miles from the airport, they say a dispersed domestic areas make sense and plenty of lawn to dig trenches in

https://www.booking.com/hotel/gb/rossington-hall.en-gb.html?aid=1250365&label=huno.1-bing%3Aa44ff7fe891f11003483953064ce2c28&sid=92f0d89abae6a12f0930c26e24781618&all_sr_blocks=259904218_326666713_2_2_0;checkin=2022-07-20;checkout=2022-07-21;dest_id=-2594486;dest_type=city;dist=0;group_adults=2;group_children= 0;hapos=17;highlighted_blocks=259904218_326666713_2_2_0;hpos =17;matching_block_id=259904218_326666713_2_2_0;no_rooms=1;r eq_adults=2;req_children=0;room1=A%2CA;sb_price_type=total;s r_order=popularity;sr_pri_blocks=259904218_326666713_2_2_0__ 13500;srepoch=1657728560;srpvid=99bc719765e200c6;type=total; ucfs=1&#hotelTmpl

..

[Timelord]

There must be a 5* hotel in Doncaster :E

Have you ever been to Doncaster?

[WB627]

Have you ever been to Doncaster?

Where is it :confused:

[possel]

XL318 was dismantled at Scampton and transported by road to RAFM Hendon where it was put back together.
I was at Scampton then. The wings were detached outboard of Rib 162.5 (i.e. outboard of the undercarriage) but I think they had to cut the spar itself, and the fuselage came apart (surprisingly) straight down the middle just like an Airfix kit. The job was done by Salvage and Transportation Flight (from the old 71MU) from Abingdon but I can only guess at the cost now.

Having surveyed the route very carefully, they headed north late one night on the A15 and got it stuck for a while at the first roundabout!

[NutLoose]

They were looking circa 100,000 to move a vc10 from Brunty several years back.

[WB627]

I believe they carry out regular maintenance on it and were BAE and RR to agree, would the CAA permit a single wheels down ferry flight?

[GeeRam]

I believe they carry out regular maintenance on it and were BAE and RR to agree, would the CAA permit a single wheels down ferry flight?

Not a chance of that happening....IMHO.

There were serious questions being asked about DSA's long term viability even when '558 was still operating out of there, as the airfield was sold by Peel Airports back to parent Peel Group back in Dec 2012, which is why all but the blinkered VTTS fans thought it was a stupid idea to land it back there for the final time.

[ej200man]

Not a chance of that happening....IMHO.

There were serious questions being asked about DSA's long term viability even when '558 was still operating out of there, as the airfield was sold by Peel Airports back to parent Peel Group back in Dec 2012, which is why all but the blinkered VTTS fans thought it was a stupid idea to land it back there for the final time.


Even more doubt been cast there now, with widely reported issues yesterday, following Wizz Air pulling some flights.

[Jhieminga]

They were looking circa 100,000 to move a vc10 from Brunty several years back.
The initial number they were looking for was around £300,000. That was based on the experience of taking VC10 XR808 apart and moving that to RAF Cosford. This was also based on keeping it in such a state that it remained possible to do taxi runs with the aircraft. You might be able to do something different for the Vulcan as it is a completely different airframe and depending on whether you want a 'live' airframe at the end of the trip, but I'm pretty sure you will see a six-figure sum on the bill at the end.

[NutLoose]

I suppose if the airfield is sold for housing and I presume gravel extraction from under the runways and aprons, the best they could hope for is being housed in one of the what will become empty hangars as the live aviation parts moves out.

Or failing that, being given a patch of land to fence off and set up a small museum for the Vulcan and Canberra, as I said in the past, once its flying days came to an end it just became another dead Vulcan mouldering away on the edge of an airfield, why move it? there are still plenty about, some live, that do runs.

It should never have gone there, I did say Brunty, but with hindsight that would have been its death knell, Elvington would have been ideal, or at least an Airfield close to a large conurbation to feed the visitor numbers.

Its a shame they couldn't repurpose the terminal if it closes, take out a glass wall and put the Vulcan and Canberra into the terminal building concourse if they'd fit, use that as the STEM centre they planned with the bonus of shopping etc to draw the punters in..

..

[chevvron]

There must be a 5* hotel in Doncaster :E
There's luxury accomodation a few miles north of Finningley; 2 sites, very secure, with a control tower.

[GeeRam]

I suppose if the airfield is sold for housing and I presume gravel extraction from under the runways and aprons, the best they could hope for is being housed in one of the what will become empty hangars as the live aviation parts moves out.


It won't be sold, as Peel Group are a property development group.......
Given the links to the motorway network etc., I would think yet another large Amazon distribution centre, plus maybe cloud data centre type facilities, with maybe solar farm etc.
Some of it could get hived off for some housing maybe?
Given the amount of money VTTS owe Peel Group for unpaid rent, they'll be lucky to even get anything for the tin triangle. I'd be surprised if there would be enough space given over to be able to continue running the engines etc., let move it under power.

Peel will want to maximise money generation from the site, so I wouldn't be very optimistic about '558's future going forward.
I think it will be a good few months before any indications of what will happen to the site becomes apparent.

[uxb99]

On the subject of what to do with aircraft and apologies for taking this thread of tangent for a couple of posts.
Anyone know what will happen to the aircraft at Dunsfold? In fact what's not happening at Dunsfold?

[ej200man]

Announced yesterday that Peel Group are now looking to close the airport and turn it into a warehousing complex.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Looking for a new home

https://vulcantothesky.org/news/vulcan-xh558-set-to-leave-doncaster-sheffield-airport-in-2023/

[wub]

Looking for a new home

https://vulcantothesky.org/news/vulcan-xh558-set-to-leave-doncaster-sheffield-airport-in-2023/

and more money. Let go for goodness sake.

[NutLoose]

Yes, they would be better off trying to buy a patch of land just off the airport and stick it on that to rot. Or come to a deal to put it as a gate guardian for the new warehouse project.

[RAF_Techie101]

Yes, they would be better off trying to buy a patch of land just off the airport and stick it on that to rot. Or come to a deal to put it as a gate guardian for the new warehouse project.

You mean, their plan to fly it out of there after 7 years of corroding in the corner isn't viable? Colour me surprised. I'd loved to have been a fly on the wall of the CAA office when they approached them with that idea...

[GeeRam]

and more money. Let go for goodness sake.

Indeed.

Strip it of all parts and along with all their spares stash, divi it all up among the other Vulcan groups, and cut the bloody thing up, and that will be the end of VTTS.
They haven't got a hope in hell of doing what Crash n Smash did with the Hendon Vulcan to move it elsewhere, and whats the point anyway, it will just be another non-active dead Vulcan, and there are enough of them dotted around already, some of which could do with some help with parts.

Of course we all knew this was the likely outcome within 10 years of the last landing as soon as they chose to land back at DSA, so its not exactly a surprise to most.

As said, would have loved to have been the fly on the wall of the CAA office when that call came in :E

[longer ron]

They did do engine runs just the other day (via an FB friend) so the Aircraft is sort of 'Live'.
Not sure if just low power anti det runs or if they took the power above idle.

[GeeRam]

They did do engine runs just the other day (via an FB friend) so the Aircraft is sort of 'Live'.
Not sure if just low power anti det runs or if they took the power above idle.

They took her for a taxy trundle down the runway and back last month, there was a video posted online somewhere. Probably the last time she'll move under her own power most likely now.