New Tribes Missions - new delivery

[Mumbai Merlin]

New Tribes Missions is replacing one Bell 206 helicopter with three Robinson R66.

The first has arrived by ship in Lae and is being transported by road to Goroka for assembly. First of type in PNG; good luck !

[Duck Pilot]

I would be interest to know what it can realistically lift on the hook at 5,000ft in ISA +20 conditions.

Thought a 407 would have been a better option, although the Robbie may be ok if they are only going to operate them in the lowlands.

They seem to be all over the place in the 206.

[geeup]

Well the R66 that’s a new way to die

[tail wheel]

I remember when they bought their first C185, ex Talair. Must have been late 1970s? Pilot was a Yank, think his name was Jim?

[Cilba]

The American missionary in Wau bought P2- SEQ from Talair in the late 60s or early 70s. New Tribes operated P2-TAC.

[Kagamuga]

Would that have been James Blume?
He has a highly modified C185, ex Talair, kept at Wau. P2-SEQ
The aircraft may well be dismantled as James left PNG, a few years ago. He is elderly and his wife if still alive was suffering I think from dementia.
Jim is/was trying to place the aircraft in a box and return the machine to USA.
I was at one time trying to buy the C185; alas not for sale .
I last communicated with Jim approx 18 months ago.

[tail wheel]

Yes, it was Jim Blume. I sold it to him in the late 1970s. I think the price at that time was around $9,000. Talair sold maybe four or five C185s.

New Tribes Mission at Goroka also bought a C185 from Talair.

Another went to an Air Niugini pilot.

P2-SEP was retained and eventually restored and repainted (in the original TAL scheme) at Flight West in Brisbane. It is currently in New Zealand, possibly being rebuilt after yet another bingle or so I heard.

It was at a time when Talair was transitioning our of single engine aircraft due to their propensity for gravity to take over when the noise quit, and the airline transition into turbine twins.

Too long ago, I don't recall the details.

[Pinky the pilot]

Taily; I seem to remember that my old Boss Richard Rowe, God rest his Soul, had an immaculate 185. P2-ROW from memory.
And no-one flew it but he!:=

And Chuckles also had one. Reggo escapes me.

[chimbu warrior]

P2-SEQ https://www.airhistory.net/marks-all/P2SEQ

P2-TAC previously with New Tribes Mission https://www.airhistory.net/marks-all/P2TAC

ZK-VKE (ex P2-SEP) with "modified" prop tips https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9974397

Chuck's former C185 https://www.airhistory.net/photo/43749/P2-AWM

[Kagamuga]

.
The late Ian Leslie had P2-IDL, not sure of its previous rego before the "initials' became the rego.

[chimbu warrior]

Ian's C185 was ex-MAF, previously VH-MFB https://www.airhistory.net/marks-all/P2IDL

[sundaun]

Re. CMS/ SEM
Three of us bought SEM off you Taily, Shags, Phil McGuire ( a helicopter pilot) and myself. We paid K10, 000 . McGuire and I sold our shares to Shags a few years later at the same value. I subsequently owned a couple of others. Ser. No. 271 ex Vietnam was P2-CCD now VH-YME (if still in one piece). Good load carriers but had to fly it yourself

[Kagamuga]

New Tribes Missions has taken delivery of their second R66 helicopter.

Registered N40299 and presently at USA HQ and being prepped for delivery to PNG

Apparently funding for a third R66 is progressing ...

[Cilba]

Re Jim Blume and his Cessna 185. I lived in Wau not far from Jim in 1979/80. His C185 was a stock standard aircraft at the time, with a Continental O-470 engine (260hp). He had bought it from Talair, and was P2-SEQ. I flew it a few times. Some years after I left Wau Jim had a STOL kit fitted by SIL at Aiyura.

Jim was a standalone missionary pilot for a US based Baptist church.

[Ascend Charlie]

Wish the missionaries would leave the natives alone. They are happy with their own beliefs, no need to foist the stories and horrors of the bible upon them.

[Desert Flower]

Wish the missionaries would leave the natives alone. They are happy with their own beliefs, no need to foist the stories and horrors of the bible upon them.

Completely agree!

DF.

[Captain Nomad]

That's a pretty one-sided post-modern Western view of missionary activity...
I met a lot of 'natives' during my time in PNG who found happiness in being freed from the bonds of fear, violence and ignorance associated with the dark practices of some of their traditional ways. Missionaries have also done a lot of work to improve the health and wellbeing of many people, providing healthcare, education and facilities that simply wouldn't have reached them through other commercial avenues - especially to the marginalized and underprivileged. It's easy to point fingers at the mistakes, but it is a bit rough to condemn those people who have generally self-sacrificially given their lives in service for the benefit of others.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Plenty of non denominational organizations out there that help the marginalized. Nope - Get rid of all the religious nutters, the world will be better off for it.

[Captain Nomad]

That would require getting rid of the entire human race then as making a statement of no religion is, in itself, a religious statement... And "better off for it," have you had a look at history to see how that went for communism?

[Duck Pilot]

Having had a bit to do with missionaries in PNG over the years, I am of the opinion that they do a good job in PNG.

I’ve also flown with a few ex mission pilots and they were all excellent people to work with. Certainly a lot better than some of the misfits I’ve worked with in PNG.

[Ascend Charlie]

And "better off for it," have you had a look at history to see how that went for communism?

Ask anybody who wasn't related to Noah. See if they liked religion. Or the Midianites. Or the Canaanites.

Yes, the missionaries can do good, but trying to make them change from one sky fairy to another is out of line.

[Captain Nomad]

Ask anybody who wasn't related to Noah. See if they liked religion. Or the Midianites. Or the Canaanites.
There's context surrounding what you refer to. Do you think it is possible that how you view the context might change your presuppositions and how you perceive events?

​​​​​​​but trying to make them change from one sky fairy to another is out of line
According to what objective standard? So, they can't try and change people's beliefs, but imposing that belief on others who might hold different opinions/beliefs to you is okay?
By the way, from my observations, there's no way a village will allow a missionary to stay in their village, on their land, unless it is through consent or even by request. They are quite capable of chasing away anyone they don't want around...!

[Ascend Charlie]

Well, I did have a comment here, but this thread isn't really an argument against pointless beliefs.

[Duck Pilot]

Well, I did have a comment here, but this thread isn't really an argument against pointless beliefs.

Your pointless beliefs only…..

[tossbag]

Where are the whiny little bitches whinging about thread drift?

[Capn Rex Havoc]

That would require getting rid of the entire human race then as making a statement of no religion is, in itself, a religious statement... And "better off for it," have you had a look at history to see how that went for communism?

No mate - "no religion" is not a religious statement. And atheism is NOT a Fatih,(you know a person who doesn't collect stamps is not known as a Non Stamp Collector) and not that it is related - but communism is not a religion. I know it is unrealistic for us to live in an enlightened world where religion doesn't exist ( a pity because the world would be such a better place if we didn't have edicts from tribal Middle Eastern natives).

Anyhow, how is that MAF and the other God Botherer outfits can afford such hardware and out compete the competition? Tax free breaks etc etc.

[tail wheel]

Three of us bought SEM off you Taily, Shags, Phil McGuire ( a helicopter pilot) and myself. We paid K10, 000 .
At least that was when K10,000 Kina was worth Aus$13,000. Today K10,000 will get you Aus$4,200 - if you can find a bank that will accept it.

I doubt one could generalise over Missionaries, there are good and bad. The LMS brought education and health to the Papuan coast over 140 years ago. The Catholics provided good educational and health services, particularly on the New Guinea side. The SDA's at Kabiufa provided high quality secondary education. The Sallies at Badili did great youth work.

But I recall on one occasion we were hauling Twin Otter loads of bagged cement into a Yank run mission station out of Mendi. The Mission house was excellent. The Church good and substantial. The one room school and the small Haus Sik were Kunai huts.

And the cement was being used to make garden edging and steps up to the Mission house.

[PiperCameron]

Anyhow, how is that MAF and the other God Botherer outfits can afford such hardware and out compete the competition? Tax free breaks etc etc.

Competition? What competition?? I suspect it's more that they feel they're doing something useful with their blood (a fair bit), sweat (lots of that), tears (an awful lot of that) and cash (not so much). After all, they'd be a lot more comfortable working for the airlines..

Truth is, if it weren't for missionaries going to PNG in the first place just to try to stop the natives from fighting each other, all of us living south of Moresby might be speaking Japanese right now.

[Captain Nomad]

No mate - "no religion" is not a religious statement......(you know a person who doesn't collect stamps is not known as a Non Stamp Collector)
Are you sure about that? According to the dictionary, that is exactly how a non-religious person is defined. Try looking up 'a-theist.'
It is a religious statement in the sense that it claims to know something fundamental about reality regarding that subject, and it can't be fully proven - that no God/s exist. In order for that to be proven one would have to know absolutely everything there is to know about the universe. Strident atheist Richard Dawkins funded a public campaign with signs saying, "There's probably no God" - even he is smart enough to know that his position contains insufficient evidence to be categorically proven.

Everyone owes it to themselves to examine any evidence to the contrary, but this is clearly not the forum for discussing it. At the end of the day, what a person chooses to do with that evidence and what they choose to believe is a deeply personal matter. The ability to be able to live and believe according to their conscience without undue interference is a human right upheld by article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A freedom we perhaps don't value enough at times. Not surprisingly, countries where this freedom is curtailed or doesn't exist are generally less desirable places to live...

The point about the communism reference is that associated governments have been in a position to enforce precisely the ideal espoused here: "Get rid of all the religious nutters, the world will be better off for it." Communist Russia banned the Bible (along with other religious books), advocated the destruction of religion and went to enormous lengths to try and achieve that. Churches, synagogues and mosques were destroyed. Millions of people died in less than desirable ways in an attempt to get rid of all those religious nutters. The question remains: was the world better off for it? Reportedly, some Russian intellectuals reflecting on this time observed, "We thought we could get rid of God and retain a value for human beings. We were wrong. We destroyed both God and man."

Stories like taily's are a good example of hypocrisy. It's like the proverbial poo in the pool: it is disgusting, a little bit spreads a long way and it turns everybody off. Unfortunately, with us faulty human beings, one never has to look very far to find it. How many of us live up to our own standard of expectation, let alone that of others? I'm sure the Bible has something to say about that, but don't worry - I'll let you find that for yourself! ;)​​​​​​​

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Captain Nomad, You are right this is not the forum to discuss Theism. I'just respond to your latest, then, I suggest we PM if you wish to continue the discussion.

I don't believe in fairies, therefore I'm an Afairiest, this does not mean that the burden of proof is on me to prove that there are no such things as fairies. Dawkins is a scientist, and there is no such thing as 100% proof in science, hence his correct use that there is probably no God. There is ZERO evidence of a GOD, and for evidence, it needs to be repeatable, verifiable, and validated. Putting all your arguments for a GOD in a book written by primitive tribal folk is not evidence for anything.

You do not need a GOD, or worse, religious doctrine, to be a moral individual within a society, Altruism exists without the need for a GOD.

Finally, with regards to MAF et al, can a Muslim join as pilot, or a LGBTQ+ person? I'd say no, sounds a bit like discrimination........... but they get away with it, seems a bit wrong in the 21st century.

[tail wheel]

Capn Rex. Please.......

This thread is NOT a religious debate nor is this forum a place for religious argument.

[tail wheel]

I realise this is thread drift but this article was posted on Facebook by an old PNG pilot most of us know:

If this report is anywhere near accurate, it is a total disaster for PNG, it's economy, transport, health and education services.

Financial Times: Papua New Guinea's population size puzzles prime minister and experts (https://www.ft.com/content/5a1a8d10-d2cd-4467-b877-06146cdb48e1)

Sky News: Population study shocks Papua New Guinea (https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/population-study-shocks-papua-new-guinea/video/aa247e46f31ffe4773abc71a39898577)

The Australian: Population shock puts PNG in peril (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnation%2Fpopul ation-shock-puts-papua-new-guinea-in-peril-un-study%2Fnews-story%2F2acb85c8d91857203d81b823bfc304eb&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-low-control-score&V21spcbehaviour=append)

[lucille]

I read that article a few days ago and wondered how they figured out the population was around +/- 17 million. And then I remembered, it was a UN study which provided that number. Bound to be dodgy.

[Kagamuga]

Getting back on track ...

Can a Robinson R66 sling more than the Jet Ranger they previously operated?