New RAF Uniform

[ORAC]

Fair amount of humorous comment on social media over the leaked pictures of proposed new RAF uniforms overnight.

Anyone any idea of actual status?

https://twitter.com/lambretta_64/status/1488498688628609029?s=21

https://twitter.com/pinstripedline/status/1488478434414239747?s=21

https://twitter.com/combat_boot/status/1488439190387843077?s=21

[NutLoose]

Here are the picturs LOL

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoyalAirForce/comments/sh8q8u/proposed_new_raf_uniform/

If they want to save money, change the colour of the trousers to dark blue black, that would mean a NO1 could have the trousers replaced without the full set

[Less Hair]

Terrible bicolor patches. Looks like some sort of olympic games space pyjama.

[Martin the Martian]

What's wrong with a light blue version of the Royal Navy's working dress?

[Haraka]

I thought it was a wind up :)

[Nil_Drift]

Why are there two pictures in each of the three uniform options? I sincerely hope that there is not going to be any differentiation between the men and ... er .... the others, I mean, the aviators, no, I meant Specialists .... aargh! Nurse!

[langleybaston]

What about a beard on the action man? [or woman, come to that]

[MPN11]

Let’s have some positivity here. Think of the saving in Ties, Black.

And who in their right mind thinks that Shirts, Buttoned Up To The Top, is a fashion statement in UK? Popular in the Middle and Far East, of course … is this an attempt to be ‘inclusive’ wrt other Nations?

Oh, Lord, please spare the Service from this time and money wasting drivel, and just (as noted upthread) make the bloody kit from better material.

[ShyTorque]

Just replace the stable belt with an nice over the shoulder sash, bring back the chipbag hat and then:

https://youtu.be/huPB3T0v_uQ

[teeteringhead]

At least in the finest traditions of the SH Force we can now have even more people (gender neutral noun) without 2 being dressed the same....

[Bob Viking]

Let’s be honest. Whatever ideas are produced the ex-military members of the forum will hate it regardless.

For me personally I can virtually count on one hand the number of times I’ve worn my No.2 uniform since I left Cranwell so I don’t really care. And if I’m honest, I think anything would be an improvement on the ill-fitting, scratchy blue trousers and jumper that I’m currently expected to wear when the situation arises.

I have no idea if the attached images are a wind-up or genuine but I’m not about to get excited either way.

If it was up to me, I’d just ditch the concept of a No.2 blue uniform and use the MTP clothing as the everyday wear and No.1 for smart occasions.

I’ll still spend 99.9% of my days in a flying suit.

BV

[cynicalint]

It looks as if someone has been over-influenced by Startrek fashions. Still, the old No 2 Thunderbird jackets elicited similar objections in 1980 as did the dark blue windcheater jacket. in 1993 Things were ever thus!

[ShyTorque]

Let’s be honest. Whatever ideas are produced the ex-military members of the forum will hate it regardless.

Not so, but some of us do still keep some pride in the how the RAF presents itself.

[Timelord]

I think it’s great. The Space Ops brevet will go with it perfectly.

BV “ Scratchy blue trousers and jumper”? It’s like silk compared to the “hairy blue” battle dress that a previous generation tolerated and I’ll never know how. Six months wearing it at OCTU was quite enough for me.

[Krystal n chips]

I think it’s great. The Space Ops brevet will go with it perfectly.

BV “ Scratchy blue trousers and jumper”? It’s like silk compared to the “hairy blue” battle dress that a previous generation tolerated and I’ll never know how. Six months wearing it at OCTU was quite enough for me.

As a former wearer, not always meeting the approval of some of the more pedantic uniform obsessives I'm pleased to say, of this combination of cloth and sandpaper, you have my sympathies, but from your perspective thankfully only for a few short months.

" that would mean a NO1 could have the trousers replaced without the full set"

Slightly off topic, but still related, when it came to the No1 trousers, and "hairy blue" in Germany, some of us on 431 were whisked off very soon after arrival to a certain surplus store in Roermond, where, by an amazing coincidence there was a never ending supply of Dutch uniform trousers remarkably similar in colour and style to the RAF version...this did raise a few eyebrows from the above pedants, but, ensured your legs weren't ripped to pieces .

[MPN11]

Of course BV has a different view from the other 95% of the RAF. By their free GroBag and optional Leather Jacket (with colourful badges) shall ye know them. 👎

Some Trades require work overalls, which are not normally worn striding around the Station. Others work in less grubby environments, and wear on a daily basis the No. 2 Dress so eschewed by BV and his ilk. Or, indeed, in my early days, No. 1 HD … a heavy personal expense for young officers.

Sorry, BV, I don’t visualise a huge sympathy vote for your elitist perspective.

BUT … I do agree with the idea of wearing MTP as standard. It might help remind some people that it’s a Fighting Service, not a sub-set of the RAC.

[Melchett01]

I’m sure that uniform will look good the first time it’s out of the wrapper and on a young 20-something not long out of training.

Fast forward 6 months of wear and 20 years in the Service, and I don’t know anyone with a figure that would make it look good. It’ll be a cringing disaster if they do it. Just put people in MTP if you want to save money on uniforms - and remind them they are in a fighting service not the RAC / Kwik Fit.

[Davef68]

I like the idea of RN no 4 PCS in RAF Blue - any reasons that wouldn't suit RAF (Includes the option of only T shirt or T shirt and fleece in the RN regulations)

[MG]

I like the light blue patches on the trouser pockets, just where you’re going to put your hands and get the patches really grubby. Well thought out that.

Why did anyone think that multi-coloured patches would make the wearer look smart or stylish, at the very least, not look like a nob?

What we can’t see from these pictures is the choice of material, which is all important. Will it be a good quality cotton-based uniform, or best Brentford Nylons’ highly flammable crimplene?

Agree with some of the above, what’s wrong with a blue-grey (one colour) version of the RN PCS rig?

[Wyler]

Well, plenty of baddie extras for the next Bond movie.
Is the Air part of the MOD relocating to Tracy Island?
utter Sh!te😂😂

[MPN11]

Well, Clothing Design used to come under the purview of the RO post of Assistant Director Clothing Requirements and Procurement (RAF), abbreviated as ADCRAP. If that post still exists, the title remains wholly appropriate.

[NutLoose]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1672/v4nu9p1ak2f81_6b9f0c2e1b20bb6fb06e0116cbfb261abdf26740.jpg

Hmmmm now where have I seen that before……Starship Troopers :E


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x541/image_d30ce14d431c2a683913b513f2c942e6b3f063ee.jpeg

[NutLoose]

Ohhh wait their copying the style of the show.



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1200/bod0s1k9k2f81_4b4c09ad03f5d7ce05eb2c5ed0424b9143912b4d.jpg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1200/image_a56bb7ac92d548f7190075a6a66091eaccd1cf59.jpeg

[NutLoose]

This one would look smarter as a single colour and is similar to the police one


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1694/image_b57de44282ef90d88ae10093dcf9a16b9dec8227.jpeg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54600575


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x549/image_95856e2526a2fc31407ee68bf23fc127242b2860.jpeg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x549/image_ce2b206ac6c354d764e2f5dc5f23be7eb343fc55.jpeg

[MG]

I hate the police uniforms as well. Why do they have to have that silly collarless zip-up look? Have a look at European police uniforms for practical, yet smart. The French, with its light blue polo shirt look, isn’t far removed from the proposals here, but only if they take the awful three colour strips off everything. Ben Sherman have done that and will probably sue!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x956/84131408_78ae_4b9e_9a28_6ee9b7d051a5_94f4095a3e42f6eaff48cf2 6fbff398b06347bca.jpeg

[SirToppamHat]

I think I first saw the ppt presentation about 18-mths ago, it was described as a 'strawman', a set of ideas to stimulate interest and discussion. I also saw a few (mainly females) wearing soft shell jackets around HQ Air, but they were dark blue (like the awful jacket GP). One cpl I asked explained they were part of a trial but they soon disappeared from view.

Piss-taking aside (and I have seen some very clever/inventive imagery over the past 48 hours), I can't see any of this taking off for the simple reason that there's no money. A common view where I am is that most of us (especially those living in the SLA various - at all ranks) would just like to have heating and hot water on a reliable basis.

[minigundiplomat]

CAS needs putting up against a wall for a 10 round debrief. True or fake, the service he leads has become a woke laughing stock.

[drustsonoferp]

Stable belt around the utility uniform doesn't work, and the smart utility of No.2 shirt with utility trousers is nonsense, but otherwise I think the utility uniform is heading in the right direction: make a modern uniform in well performing fabrics which is well suited to making personnel comfortable when they do their job without falling to pieces or looking ridiculous when you go to the tea bar or lunch.

Leave No.1s alone for looking smart when doing smart things, No.2 isn't really changed much and looks reasonable for office jobs.

[Finningley Boy]

Is chin stubble a part of the uniform now as well?

FB

[Lima Juliet]

The RAF did a blue/grey PCS trial at Leeming and Wittering.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x225/b05e1f5d_cf4e_434c_a9c3_975db8db90bd_c4cecb31789301741c3bf4c b7f5846f3b743faa5.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/225x400/c32d1eba_a75a_4397_afb3_dff4265a98f4_f5f37a73eef8b45b41333e4 316fd1ac8ce6d17e7.jpeg

There were a few issues with it. I think they quickly started looking tatty as the blue/grey faded like old jeans, and also the lighter colour or plain pattern showed up every oil spot and hydraulic stain. The dark navy blue of RN PCS and MTP PCS hides a multitude of sins. If we went for blue/grey RAF ‘crab fat’ blue PCS then it would need to be fairly stain resistant and colour fast.

However, my main beef would be such a uniform attracting a beret - unless they saw sense and allowed the field service cap to be worn in lieu as well. One stars and above are allowed to wear them, so it’s hardly that big a leap to allow ‘chip bags’ to be worn instead of berets with PCS type clothing - they were designed for field use, after all.

As for the Goldie Lookin’ Chain leisure suits - no thanks. If I want to look chav then I’ll go work in a leisure centre.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x759/f76326a8_087a_490e_b9cd_88f0d00f65ab_6a553c965f6fb89ff423ac0 1cbaaa1f6622e1c17.jpeg

[Union Jack]

CAS needs putting up against a wall for a 10 round debrief. True or fake, the service he leads has become a woke laughing stock.

The saving grace may be that uniform changes normally have to receive royal approval, following submission through ACDS(PC) in his role as Defence Services Secretary.

Jack

[Out Of Trim]

Oh dear, How embarrassing! Those examples are absolutely hideous. I think the something similar to the latest RN style working dress might be OK without any multi colour patches. 😬👎👀

[ShyTorque]

I think my pyjamas look smarter….

[m0nkfish]

Let’s be honest. Whatever ideas are produced the ex-military members of the forum will hate it regardless.

For me personally I can virtually count on one hand the number of times I’ve worn my No.2 uniform since I left Cranwell so I don’t really care. And if I’m honest, I think anything would be an improvement on the ill-fitting, scratchy blue trousers and jumper that I’m currently expected to wear when the situation arises.

I have no idea if the attached images are a wind-up or genuine but I’m not about to get excited either way.

If it was up to me, I’d just ditch the concept of a No.2 blue uniform and use the MTP clothing as the everyday wear and No.1 for smart occasions.

I’ll still spend 99.9% of my days in a flying suit.

BV

You either need to do more orderly officer or you have lots of fingers on one hand!

[Bob Viking]

From what I can remember many flying stations now allow Orderly Officer duties to be conducted in flying suit. It’s been 5 years since I last worked on a UK flying Station though so things may have changed. In fact I’ve spent about 10 of my 22 years overseas so that may explain my lack of contact with the scratchy blue.

I may have exaggerated slightly (I have normal hands) but aside from courses such as FLAC/FSC/JOCC there really isn’t much call for me to drag the blues down from the loft.

MPN11, I’ll refrain from getting into the flying suit debate. I’ll keep my ‘elitist’ views on that to myself.

BV

[Not Long Here]

Current RNZAF non-aircrew working dress. Worn by all ranks, commissioned and non-commissioned. Maybe we could strike a deal :)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/275x183/rnzaf_7a9d3d238b6cf41b5df04288cc1befb7024c0ab3.jpg

[Lima Juliet]

BV

I’ve done Orderly Officer, Station Duty Officer and Duty Station Exec in a flying suit for 25+ years! As long as you have your No 1 ready for a KINFORM then there normally isn’t an issue. The policy to do it in blues changed in the mid 90s if I recall.

[MG]

However, my main beef would be such a uniform attracting a beret - unless they saw sense and allowed the field service cap to be worn in lieu as well. One stars and above are allowed to wear them, so it’s hardly that big a leap to allow ‘chip bags’ to be worn instead of berets with PCS type clothing - they were designed for field use, after all.
Are you mad? It’s clearly best suited to a beret; just look at when the RN wear a cap with their PCS. I’ve always been a fan of the chip bag but there’s a time and a place for it.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

I'd be pleased to see a uniform Uniform. As alluded to above, you could be on detachment with 12 guys and girls, no 2 of which dress alike; but they're all correct. And anything that stops the General Public thinking you're an RAC mechanic gets my vote....

[Bob Viking]

We could copy some other Air Forces and put everyone in flying suits with badges to reflect their trade. That might alleviate the perceived ‘elitism’.

BV

[Doctor Cruces]

Let’s be honest. Whatever ideas are produced the ex-military members of the forum will hate it regardless.

For me personally I can virtually count on one hand the number of times I’ve worn my No.2 uniform since I left Cranwell so I don’t really care. And if I’m honest, I think anything would be an improvement on the ill-fitting, scratchy blue trousers and jumper that I’m currently expected to wear when the situation arises.

I have no idea if the attached images are a wind-up or genuine but I’m not about to get excited either way.

If it was up to me, I’d just ditch the concept of a No.2 blue uniform and use the MTP clothing as the everyday wear and No.1 for smart occasions.

I’ll still spend 99.9% of my days in a flying suit.

BV
Flying suits next, Bob. Same two tone as the utility dress, :)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

BV

I’ve done Orderly Officer, Station Duty Officer and Duty Station Exec in a flying suit for 25+ years! As long as you have your No 1 ready for a KINFORM then there normally isn’t an issue. The policy to do it in blues changed in the mid 90s if I recall.
Very much depends on where you are and the influence of any given SWO/OC Base and how much the flying branch have p****d them off recently! When we were banned from doing it in flying clothing recently I made a point of doing it in PCS to avoid having to wear those sodding trousers!

[ancientaviator62]

As someone long retired but still with an interest what is the rationale for changing the current uniform at what will, no doubt be a huge cost ? From personal e3xperience I hope that the production issue matches the quality of the trial issue assuming there is one. I still think all uniforms look better with a 'chipbag' !

[mopardave]

The RAF did a blue/grey PCS trial at Leeming and Wittering.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x225/b05e1f5d_cf4e_434c_a9c3_975db8db90bd_c4cecb31789301741c3bf4c b7f5846f3b743faa5.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/225x400/c32d1eba_a75a_4397_afb3_dff4265a98f4_f5f37a73eef8b45b41333e4 316fd1ac8ce6d17e7.jpeg

There were a few issues with it. I think they quickly started looking tatty as the blue/grey faded like old jeans, and also the lighter colour or plain pattern showed up every oil spot and hydraulic stain. The dark navy blue of RN PCS and MTP PCS hides a multitude of sins. If we went for blue/grey RAF ‘crab fat’ blue PCS then it would need to be fairly stain resistant and colour fast.

However, my main beef would be such a uniform attracting a beret - unless they saw sense and allowed the field service cap to be worn in lieu as well. One stars and above are allowed to wear them, so it’s hardly that big a leap to allow ‘chip bags’ to be worn instead of berets with PCS type clothing - they were designed for field use, after all.

As for the Goldie Lookin’ Chain leisure suits - no thanks. If I want to look chav then I’ll go work in a leisure centre.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x759/f76326a8_087a_490e_b9cd_88f0d00f65ab_6a553c965f6fb89ff423ac0 1cbaaa1f6622e1c17.jpeg
Thanks for that mate.......I just narrowly avoided a new laptop!! Priceless!!

[dctyke]

From what I can remember many flying stations now allow Orderly Officer duties to be conducted in flying suit. It’s been 5 years since I last worked on a UK flying Station though so things may have changed. In fact I’ve spent about 10 of my 22 years overseas so that may explain my lack of contact with the scratchy blue.

I may have exaggerated slightly (I have normal hands) but aside from courses such as FLAC/FSC/JOCC there really isn’t much call for me to drag the blues down from the loft.

MPN11, I’ll refrain from getting into the flying suit debate. I’ll keep my ‘elitist’ views on that to myself.

BV
Many flying stations, we have many? 😉

[Haraka]

With all the current "wokery", am I the only one a bit surprised at the reflectivity and apparent gender of the chosen model for the proposed garb? . ....:)

[ShyTorque]

With all the current "wokery", am I the only one a bit surprised at the reflectivity and apparent gender of the chosen model for the proposed garb? . ....:)

That’s probably the usual tone of the mannequins used by Sports Direct, who make that type of clothing.

[Stratnumberone]

This drive for new uniform seems entirely consistent with the apparent MO of the current senior leadership: expend masses of time, money and effort on finding ‘solutions’ for problems that either don’t exist or aren’t a priority, while comprehensively failing to address long-term issues that effect a huge percentage of Forces personnel on a daily basis.

[oldgrubber]

Elasticated waist
Pocket for stowing the spurs
Machine wash only so the hotel don't ruin them
Sorted
:p

[Roland Pulfrew]

This drive for new uniform seems entirely consistent with the apparent MO of the current senior leadership: expend masses of time, money and effort on finding ‘solutions’ for problems that either don’t exist or aren’t a priority, while comprehensively failing to address long-term issues that effect a huge percentage of Forces personnel on a daily basis.

This. Nail, hammer, head. 👍🏻

[NutLoose]

If you read in the Housing thread i posted this

In the letter, the Annington chair also criticised the state of the properties – which are maintained by the Government as part of the initial sale agreement – as “unacceptable” for service personnel.

On Wednesday, Annington added that it is offering a £105 million fund to improve and modernise service personnel homes.

It told the MoD that the cash made available for the fund will instead need to be used for legal costs if an agreement is not found in the next two weeks and a litigation process begins.

Baroness Liddell also criticised the Government for spending £36.6 million in rent per year on around 7,230 vacant properties in the estate.“It makes no sense at all for the MoD either to spend these vast sums renting homes with no occupants, or to deprive would-be homeowners/buyers of a proper home of their own,” she wrote.

[Tengah Type]

Does not affect me as I am long gone from the fray. The GP Jacket is not too bad even if it looks like a PTI uniform, but the two -tone ??
Surely in this day and woke age we should allow a choice of colours, Pink, Mauve, Orange and the other colours of the LGBT Etc flag.

Anyway what they look like on a slim young mannequin is one thing. On a less slim 53 year old perhaps another. Anybody with Photoshop ability want
to try it on the two characters in the Caption Competition?

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Many years ago in RAFG, I met a forward air controller who lived with the army, calling into Gutersloh very occasionally for admin. He was ' man at C&A ', buying trousers shirts ​​and a snappy windcheater from shops. Obviously in a tasteful blue.WIthout comparators, the army never knew. And he got a smart crease resistant outfit that fitted.

Maybe this is the way forward?

[Two's in]

And anything that stops the General Public thinking you're an RAC mechanic gets my vote....

Are you speaking as a member of the RAF, or as a member of the RAC?

[cheekychimp]

This drive for new uniform seems entirely consistent with the apparent MO of the current senior leadership: expend masses of time, money and effort on finding ‘solutions’ for problems that either don’t exist or aren’t a priority, while comprehensively failing to address long-term issues that effect a huge percentage of Forces personnel on a daily basis.
Sums it up nicely.

[Il Duce]

"The images leaked online were misleading and have led some people to mistakenly believe that they are approved, final designs. They are instead an artist's impression of what the new uniforms could look like. The actual design process is still in the very early stages and no decisions have been made." In other words: stand by, the final designs could be even worse than those depicted above!

[fitliker]

Will there be a maternity version ? Similar to the US navy attire , Asking for a friend :)

[Jobza Guddun]

This drive for new uniform seems entirely consistent with the apparent MO of the current senior leadership: expend masses of time, money and effort on finding ‘solutions’ for problems that either don’t exist or aren’t a priority, while comprehensively failing to address long-term issues that effect a huge percentage of Forces personnel on a daily basis.

Precisely the viewpoint of many on the coal face - younger and older.

[Il Duce]

"Sir, the heating in the barrack block has broken down again."
" Never mind, we've got you a nice polyester stable belt. "
"I'd much rather have heating in the block, Sir."
"But we've got you a nice polyester stable belt."

[trim it out]

"Sir, the heating in the barrack block has broken down again."
" Never mind, we've got you a nice polyester stable belt. "
"I'd much rather have heating in the block, Sir."
"But we've got you a nice polyester stable belt."
And an electric scooter so you can get to the gym for a hot shower.

[Melchett01]

Some serious backpedaling on the RAF MODNET page. Design concepts only, no decisions made etc etc etc. You know, the sort of ringing endorsement you get from the Board when you’re 2 points above the relegation zone but the Board has full confidence. The Army are lapping it up.

If this sees light of day I’ll be stunned. Does Wiggy really want to be remembered as the CAS who made the ORs’ uniform look like the sort of garb you see worn on a Saturday afternoon in a northern shopping centre?

[ORAC]

Pprune gets its own special mention and photograph. Sir Humphrey is watching you….

https://twitter.com/pinstripedline/status/1488958912938364936?s=21

[fitliker]

Some of the flameproof / fire retardant kit I have worn over the years lost it efficacy after being washed too many times . An excuse some smellies and stinkers would take not to wash very often .

[ancientaviator62]

If the 'high and mighty ' wish for a uniform change they could go 'retro' and bring back the battledress ! With chipbag of curse. I'll just get my greatcoat !.

[ORAC]

What is it with the need for hats, whether they be berets, chip bags, SD or other?

I mean, everyone used to wear a hat up to the 50s, so I 7nderstand why the military have them - but people stopped wearing them routinely decades ago.

They aren’t essential for saluting - your arm goes up and down just as easily without one, what other purpose do they serve?

They are obvious uses for bonedomes, helmets and cold weather gear such as parka hoods. I can also ee the need for a baseball cap, or even a kepi, to keep off the sun in tropical climes - but hats?

https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/men-stop-wearing-hats/

[reds & greens]

What a humiliating, embarrassing mockery of uniform!
Never mind Trenchard turning in his grave, he'd be spinning at 5000rpm looking at that.
Thankfully, after 40+yrs I'm out and wearing something with a modicum of sense.

[ancientaviator62]

It all smacks of fiddling while Rome burns'.

[OldnDaft]

Utterly cringeworthy. What has happened to the organisation, who would even suggest these changes, even in draft?

[ORAC]

Never mind Trenchard turning in his grave, he'd be spinning at 5000rpm looking at that.
Have you seen the colour of the original uniform he approved (Sky blue), only changed because of the Russian Revolution……

https://www.rafweb.org/Ranks-Uniform/Ranks3.htm

[Wetstart Dryrun]

With all this global warming, the solution is clearly KD.

[Dan Winterland]

There's going to be a ne
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x448/v_salute_a3b25dc4fc506c7e85fcf6db3c323d6b900d80f7.jpeg
w salute too.

[radar101]

They aren’t essential for saluting - your arm goes up and down just as easily without one, what other purpose do they serve?

Only Americans salute without a hat on.

[Sideshow Bob]

Some serious backpedaling on the RAF MODNET page. Design concepts only, no decisions made etc etc etc. You know, the sort of ringing endorsement you get from the Board when you’re 2 points above the relegation zone but the Board has full confidence. The Army are lapping it up.

If this sees light of day I’ll be stunned. Does Wiggy really want to be remembered as the CAS who made the ORs’ uniform look like the sort of garb you see worn on a Saturday afternoon in a northern shopping centre?

A northern shopping centre - more likely an Essex chavy shopping centre.

Can't wait to see some big fat old FS in one of those skin tight numbers - Michelin Man impersonations here we come....

[toratoratora]

“They aren’t essential for saluting - your arm goes up and down just as easily without one, what other purpose do they serve?”

Because you salute the Officers’ cap or hat badge (i.e. the Crown), and not the person wearing it.

Anyway, just stick with whatever the Army wears. The RAF should absolutely retain the ethos of a fighting service, if just as a reminder to the troops.

[ORAC]

Because you salute the Officers’ cap or hat badge (i.e. the Crown), and not the person wearing it.
Borrocks - you salute the Queen’s commission - which is why an officer gets a salute even if he is in civvies.

[toratoratora]

I can honestly never remember being saluted in Civvies…

[MPN11]

Anyway, just stick with whatever the Army wears. The RAF should absolutely retain the ethos of a fighting service, if just as a reminder to the troops.YES. In my DISTAFF days at WAD and later across 11 Gp, I became convinced that large slabs of the Light Blue were thinking, and behaving, like a civilian outfit. Like the Chf Tech I encountered making his leisurely way to 44 Sqn’s hangar, at least 30 min if not more after the horn had gone off. Yes, in full V-Force days. “I had a quick shower and shave, Sir.” FFS. I made him double the rest of the way to his cup of peacetime coffee.

Wear Combat Dress. It doesn’t seem to stop the US forces, and others, from operating effectively. Dressing like a civvy chav would, IMO, have the opposite effect.
“Train in Peace the way you will fight a War”

[/rant]

[Scamp]

To make it more appealing to the next generation ? surely the basics of the military stand without change, why is the system making these choices? and who advises them.

[minigundiplomat]

I can honestly never remember being saluted in Civvies…

That says more about you than us......

[207592]

Dressed in appropriate workwear, quite right. Coveralls for engineers; something warm for those of airfields, and shirt and slacks for those in offices? Is there need for hoodies and tracksuit bottoms?

[Scamp]

Honest question, in these tri service times surely it's one office looking at uniform across Navy, Army, RAF and Marines. Why the radical approach to the RAF?

[gcal]

So much fuss over a set of rags.
I am surprised as I had previously thought the only concern of the RAF was the colour of the curtains.

[gcal]

Dressed in appropriate workwear, quite right. Coveralls for engineers; something warm for those of airfields, and shirt and slacks for those in offices? Is there need for hoodies and tracksuit bottoms?
'Slacks'....I'll just rush off and check the century ;)

[Scamp]

Slacks with elasticated waistband of course!

[London Eye]

To make it more appealing to the next generation ? surely the basics of the military stand without change, why is the system making these choices? and who advises them.

Honest question, in these tri service times surely it's one office looking at uniform across Navy, Army, RAF and Marines. Why the radical approach to the RAF?

I'll tell you what Scamp, they are both reasonable questions... but why not make it easier for us and just tell us what sort of article you are trying to write!
.

[toratoratora]

That says more about you than us......

Yes, it does-the same way I don’t display my job title away from work, unlike some.

[Scamp]

I'll tell you what Scamp, they are both reasonable questions... but why not make it easier for us and just tell us what sort of article you are trying to write!
.

​​​​​​​Article? care to expand?

[uffington sb]

Wasn’t there a trial in the early 70’s of light blue to replace the original KD. Thankfully they settled on ‘stone’, which is what I was issued with when posted to RAF Gan.

[BEagle]

There was a slightly later trial, I heard.....which included blue suede bondhu boots!

Stone won the day!

Did anyone actually spend their 'KD allowance" on KD??

[NutLoose]

Stone that rapidly changed colour when working on aircraft never to look the same again.

[Old-Duffer]

Yes Beagle, I spent my KD allowance on KD, however, as I had several 'KD wearing posts' one after the other, I quickly found that I needed to dip into my own pocket. I made a mistake of buying some KD in UK before my first trip and arriving in it. At HQFEAF, I was introduced to a charming (much older WRAF) officer, who was told to take me to Changi Village and get some real stuff sorted. In my third jaunt I acquired a No: 6 - the smartest piece of kit the RAF ever had IMHO. The downside was that I was then promptly appointed O i/c the station Guard of Honour.

Being of 'modest stature - alright, I'm a shortarse' - I was given my jungle greens by a friendly Ghurkha officer (2nd/7th GR in those days) and for many years, all my RAF kit came from Au Wai Lam, the station tailor at Kai Tak. My big regret was that I never got a 'genuine' Bates SD hat.
Old Duffer

[MPN11]

Stone that rapidly changed colour when working on aircraft never to look the same again.
Not to mention the endless variations of shade and colour, depending o the original source. I remember a colleague at Tengah who had HK-made KD that had faded to almost white over time. My Tengah Village stuff retained a very light brown hue . Like the Army, very few of us seemed to wear the same colour/

[ShyTorque]

That says more about you than us......

One of the sharpest reminders I’ve ever heard was when a colleague forgot to salute the RAF Wing Commander Padre!

[ShyTorque]

Some of the flameproof / fire retardant kit I have worn over the years lost it efficacy after being washed too many times . An excuse some smellies and stinkers would take not to wash very often .

Crikey…how often did you test it? :eek:

[ShyTorque]

There was a slightly later trial, I heard.....which included blue suede bondhu boots!

Stone won the day!

Did anyone actually spend their 'KD allowance" on KD??

You would soon get fed up of telling people not to step on those!

I’m too young to have been given a KD allowance. We got issued with KD on arrival at Airport Camp in Belize, but you had to be very careful which “Clothing Store” door you tried to open…... those who went there will know why.

(I don’t think I ever actually wore any KD though. I’ve still got some in the loft, over forty plus years later. It never fitted me then, no chance now!)

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Same age, near enough, as me Shy - and I had the allowance for my stint in HK. I can vouch that the Au Wai Lam No.6 was the smartest thing I ever wore in the service of HM - smart being a relative term in my case, of course.

[popeye107]

Plenty of old boys here, anyone still serving? It’s about them really, not those in the waiting room.

[MPN11]

Plenty of old boys here, anyone still serving? It’s about them really, not those in the waiting room.
Oh, I say, that’s a bit harsh! Please remember that a fighting Service is also about History and Traditions, and we are some of that! :=

[popeye107]

Oh, I say, that’s a bit harsh! Please remember that a fighting Service is also about History and Traditions, and we are some of that! :=
Thank you for your service, sir or ma’am.

[muppetofthenorth]

Oh, I say, that’s a bit harsh! Please remember that a fighting Service is also about History and Traditions, and we are some of that! :=
Nothing there to say they were wrong, though...

None of this of about those no longer serving. It's about those just in and those who will be in through the next 20 years while the old and bold are being eaten by worms.

Yeah, there's history. And that's written in books. It needs to be remembered, it doesn't need to be relived.

[minigundiplomat]

Plenty of old boys here, anyone still serving? It’s about them really, not those in the waiting room.

I’d rather be in the waiting room than mincing around dressed like an extra from an Austin Powers film, talking about my feelings. Fill your boots Sprog

[Old-Duffer]

Perhaps if the views and experiences of older people were (at least) listened to, there would be fewer cock ups. I have often found people trying to reinvent the wheel, usually at great and unnecessary expense.

Old Duffer

[Herod]

while the old and bold are being eaten by worms.. Nah, they would choke on the ashes!! ;)

[fitliker]

If they are going for the Star Trek look will they consider Skants ? asking for a friend :)

[popeye107]

Perhaps if the views and experiences of older people were (at least) listened to, there would be fewer cock ups. I have often found people trying to reinvent the wheel, usually at great and unnecessary expense.

Old Duffer

OD, that’s part of the problem! You no more understand today’s youngster than I do… but each of us has a shelf life of being relevant when it comes to THEIR RAF.
The beard issue is a great recent example, and to be fair I wasn’t sold on it… but I have heard of no aircraft failing to launch because of a beard!
We ALL have a shelf life.

[fitliker]

First guy/ gal to get the crabs in his or her beard will bring back the clean shaven look PDQ :)

[Big Pistons Forever]

While working at an "Operational HQ", which was just another nondescript suburban office block we all had to wear CADPAT ( Canadian Disruptive Camouflage Pattern) that is the pixelated many pocketed uniform worn by the professional pedestrians Army when they were out camping fighting in the woods. As a Naval Officer I found the idea of having to wear the relish suit rather offensive.

One day a memo made the rounds asking for input to the "uniform advisory committee". I recommended that a new uniform be commissioned. It would be called "OFFICEPAT" and would be decorated with segments of office furnishings including a stapler, desk corner , fragment of a safety poster, edge of a water cooler etc etc. This would allow staffers to hide in plain site when the big boss was on the rampage. Strangely my idea was not adopted and I was given a stern lecture about not wasting the important committee's time with frivolous suggestions.......

[Union Jack]

Oh, I say, that’s a bit harsh! Please remember that a fighting Service is also about History and Traditions, and we are some of that! :=
Good of you to revere your Royal Navy service so fondly! :ok:
Jack

[MPN11]

I've mentioned this before, but whatever ... Callout Exercise at HQ 11 Gp in the 80s. I turn up, fully booted and spurred in DPM, Green Shirt/Sweater, LFO Webbing with filled water bottle and Respirator, and eventually brief AOC on airfield states. After the briefing I was told I should have been wearing a blue polyester shirt and blue sweater. Because the RAF didn't issue Green kit, unless deployed.

I wonder what they would have said if I'd been carrying my own [private] 9mm Browning with filled magazines from my own [private] stock? "Oh, you can't shoot intruders with that, it's not Gov't issue"?

Priorities? Been mentioned up-Thread. Bloody stupidity still rules.

[MPN11]

Good of you to revere your Royal Navy service so fondly! :ok:
Jack
Cheers, Jack. I shall never regard Cabins, Gash and the like in any other way. :cool:

[Union Jack]

Cheers, Jack. I shall never regard Cabins, Gash and the like in any other way. :cool:
Cheers indeed, Shippers. Must go, I'm just off on a run ashore with a baron....there's a fast black waiting!:D

Jack

[toratoratora]

I've mentioned this before, but whatever ... Callout Exercise at HQ 11 Gp in the 80s. I turn up, fully booted and spurred in DPM, Green Shirt/Sweater, LFO Webbing with filled water bottle and Respirator, and eventually brief AOC on airfield states. After the briefing I was told I should have been wearing a blue polyester shirt and blue sweater. Because the RAF didn't issue Green kit, unless deployed.

I wonder what they would have said if I'd been carrying my own [private] 9mm Browning with filled magazines from my own [private] stock? "Oh, you can't shoot intruders with that, it's not Gov't issue"?

Priorities? Been mentioned up-Thread. Bloody stupidity still rules.

Absolutely in tune with this! I did two years attached to the Army and felt far smarter and more military-minded in good ol’ junglies. When I came back to an RAF station, it just seemed so…..REMF…..
As an aside, my lad has been in the RAF Cadets for 3 years and has never worn anything other than Army kit-and very smart he looks.

[ORAC]

While working at an "Operational HQ", which was just another nondescript suburban office block we all had to wear CADPAT ( Canadian Disruptive Camouflage Pattern) that is the pixelated many pocketed uniform worn by the professional pedestrians Army when they were out camping fighting in the woods.
I am reminded of RAF West Drayton back in the 1980s. Totally urban situation and, during exercises, the Sanger’s being “camouflaged” with the standard green foliage nets etc.

Meanwhile we wandered down the road between the mess and the main site in DPMs getting strange looks from the passers-by

It was pointed out they stood out like sore thumbs and would have been better disguised as skips etc whilst we would be better wearing civvies - as did those working in MOD because of the IRA threat.

But rules were rules and that was what the manual said….

Which leads back to hats and rank tabs - which at Staxton Wold, as soon as we got to any alert state, we were told to remove, because snipers would automatically go for the officers….

[Mogwi]

I wonder what they would have said if I'd been carrying my own [private] 9mm Browning with filled magazines from my own [private] stock? "Oh, you can't shoot intruders with that, it's not Gov't issue"?

Ah yes, I used to get funny looks at my annual range qual when I pitched up with my Colt .38 auto (worn underneath the flying suit) or, in latter days my short-barrel .357 Magnum which fitted neatly into Her Majesty’s shoulder holster. Ear duffs definitely needed for the latter, which drilled laser-like holes in the Fig 11 target. That was before the madness that was Dunblane required us to surrender our pieces.

Mog

[MPN11]

...
Which leads back to hats and rank tabs - which at Staxton Wold, as soon as we got to any alert state, we were told to remove, because snipers would automatically go for the officers….Which is why, when acting as visiting DISTAFF, I advised the Stn Cdr that driving around in his "shiny black" with pennant flying would also be a sniper magnet. I was pleased to see on my next visit that he was using a shaggy old SWB Land-rover!