Russian Flight Planning

[galacticosh]

15/01/22

RU675

B747-8

AirBridgeCargo Airlines

A large Russian cargo plane took an lengthy, unexpected and unexplained route over central and southern Finland on Saturday night, passing over Finland's Air Force headquarters and a military intelligence unit.

According to military and security experts interviewed by Yle, the reason for the flight's detour may have been either a protest by Russia or an intelligence-gathering mission as political tensions in the Baltic region continue to escalate.

The cargo plane took off from Moscow at about 7.26pm Finnish time on Saturday evening and flew towards the city of Murmansk in northwestern Russia. However, the flight turned over the White Sea, a southern inlet of the Barents Sea, at roughly the latitude of the city of Oulu and instead flew to the German city of Leipzig.

The plane's route therefore took it over Finland from Suomussalmi in the east to Turku in the southwest, passing Tikkakoski near the city of Jyväskylä, where the Finnish Air Force headquarters and part of the Finnish Defense Forces' intelligence department are located. The cargo plane also passed close to the Halli military airport in Jämsä, Central Finland.

[Less Hair]

They can see what they want anytime. They did indeed avoid certain airspace.

[FUMR]

I would imagine that Finnish ATC and the authorities were fully aware of the aircraft's intended route over Finland. So what are you driving at?

[Avman]

It may well have had something to do with hazardous cargo for which certain countries may not have given them authority to overfly. Furthermore, Finland may have dictated which route they would be authorised to fly through their airspace with such cargo.

[ATC Watcher]

And what was the original destination ? Looks like a simple change of destination ,as Leipzig is a major freight hub used by for Volga-Depnr their parent company.. Any new routing has to be approved by Finish ATC and coordinated so it is not up to the crew to decide to overfly this or this city. .

[The Bartender]

And what was the original destination ? Looks like a simple change of destination ,as Leipzig is a major freight hub used by for Volga-Depnr their parent company.. Any new routing has to be approved by Finish ATC and coordinated so it is not up to the crew to decide to overfly this or this city. .

Leipzig, as it is every week. This one just happened to have a 1:30 detour at FL280 over Finland... 😝

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/980x2000/screenshot_20220120_170206_flightradar24_480381e9f92fef9289f 799d225ccf32e42c56492.jpg

[Beamr]

There is a word that the ac was fuelled for a long haul and afterwards was re-scheduled for the leipzig route hence filed a new flight plan with extra length for fuel burn. Go figure. What is the truth we'll probably never know.

[tdracer]

Hard to imagine that a 747-8F could be readily configured to provide much intelligence other than a look out the flight deck windows.

[Sallyann1234]

Doesn't Putin like to run an irregular flight now and again just to observe what reaction it gets?

[DaveReidUK]

Brings back memories of Aeroflot flights into Heathrow prematurely descending before overflying East Anglia at inexplicably low altitudes ...

[SpringHeeledJack]

Perhaps the aircraft has a special 'Holeski' where they put a camera in to record what's what and what's not ? Unlikely, but you never know.

Brings back memories of Aeroflot flights into Heathrow prematurely descending before overflying East Anglia at inexplicably low altitudes ...

Did that happen often ? If so, what were the consequences of descending to lower altitudes without ATC clearance ?

I remember back in the 70's/80's at Frankfurt, the occurrence of Soviet/Eastern European aircraft requesting landing clearance on the runway next to the USAF base was a weekly thing. Apparently these aircraft DID have cameras/sensors on-board to gather intelligence on the happenings at Rhein-Main AFB. Of particular interest were the matte black C-130's that flew COMINT missions along the Berlin Corridors.

I wonder if PanAm aircraft that flew to the then USSR?China etc had capabilities to gather intel other than the crew seeing things out of the windows ?

[FUMR]

ATC Watcher might be along with some stories of what the French got up to during those Berlin Corridor flights. Maybe the Brits and the Americans did the same.

[DaveReidUK]

Did that happen often ? If so, what were the consequences of descending to lower altitudes without ATC clearance ?

I don't know, but I'd be amazed if there had been any repercussions.

My only contact with Aeroflot at LHR was limited to climbing wobbly steps to put engine blanks in nightstopping Il-62s, and trying out my pidgin Russian on bemused crews. But if the Station Manager was anything to go by, you couldn't get the Russians to do anything they didn't want to do. :O

[Bames]

There is a word that the ac was fuelled for a long haul and afterwards was re-scheduled for the leipzig route hence filed a new flight plan with extra length for fuel burn. Go figure. What is the truth we'll probably never know.
This is the truth. I have connections in Air Bridge Cargo, and what happened was that the 747 bound to Leipzig went tech, so they put that cargo into the Cincinnati-bound aircraft, which had been refueled already. They had to make a detour to be within landing weight limits on arrival at Leipzig. Simple as that.

[FUMR]

Excellent. Now let's put this one to bed please!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

The Aeroflot flights inbound to Manchester back when used to route over that well known VRP Fylingdale Moors en route Ottringham-Doggar and vice versa, LOT did likewise perhaps same charts ??

[Avman]

As one who worked at PATCC I can tell you that Aeroflot, like all other operators heading to or from that particular direction, followed established ATC routes. In my time at PATCC we never had any incidents were Aeroflot strayed off track.

[DaveReidUK]

Earlier thread on PPRuNe discussing unauthorised Aeroflot low-level excursions over defence bases in the UK and elsewhere: Eastern bloc Cold War ops by civil aircraft (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/503845-eastern-bloc-cold-war-ops-civil-aircrsft.html)

[SpringHeeledJack]

A slight thread drift, but why would Aeroflot or LOT etc need to fly to Manchester back then on a regular basis ? London had Government and the Embassies, perhaps tourists in smaller numbers, but I'm scratching my head about Manchester and environs.

[FUMR]

To my knowledge Moscow has always been a top tourist attraction. I recall a teacher friend taking school parties there (and other cities in Russia) several times. Furthermore, have you considered the amount of business traffic that existed/exists between Russia (even in the Soviet Union days) and the UK?

[Liffy 1M]

Perhaps the aircraft has a special 'Holeski' where they put a camera in to record what's what and what's not ? Unlikely, but you never know.



Did that happen often ? If so, what were the consequences of descending to lower altitudes without ATC clearance ?

I remember back in the 70's/80's at Frankfurt, the occurrence of Soviet/Eastern European aircraft requesting landing clearance on the runway next to the USAF base was a weekly thing. Apparently these aircraft DID have cameras/sensors on-board to gather intelligence on the happenings at Rhein-Main AFB. Of particular interest were the matte black C-130's that flew COMINT missions along the Berlin Corridors.

I wonder if PanAm aircraft that flew to the then USSR?China etc had capabilities to gather intel other than the crew seeing things out of the windows ?

I would recommend this book to anyone seriously interested in the Berlin Corridor activities by the western powers during the Cold War. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Looking-Down-Corridors-Espionage-1945-1990/dp/0750955775

[Suzeman]

A slight thread drift, but why would Aeroflot or LOT etc need to fly to Manchester back then on a regular basis ? London had Government and the Embassies, perhaps tourists in smaller numbers, but I'm scratching my head about Manchester and environs.

Manchester's twin city was Leningrad, so every couple of years a TU104 would pitch up on an exchange visit.

Eventually Moscow / Leningrad became city break tourist destinations with regular summer charters on Aeroflot 154s on behalf of Thomson

There were regular LOT flights using IL-18 and TU-134 and sometimes IL-62 with a mix of tourists and visiting friends and relatives. Not to mention Tarom IL-18/TU154 and IL-62 and Balkan TU-134/154 on package holidays.

Gave the savvy people of the north an opportunity to fly direct without all the hassle of having to go over London

[skam fly]

This is the truth. I have connections in Air Bridge Cargo, and what happened was that the 747 bound to Leipzig went tech, so they put that cargo into the Cincinnati-bound aircraft, which had been refueled already. They had to make a detour to be within landing weight limits on arrival at Leipzig. Simple as that.

That 748F (VQ-BRH) arrived from HKG fully loaded before being dispatched to LEJ. There’s usually no load change involved in DME, so being a fuel stop only.
But how does this match to the „truth“ that VQ-BRH was bound for Cincinnati..?? Doesn’t make sense, right…
Was it possibly a simple mistake of the dispatchers/fuelers mixing up aircraft’s..??

[SpringHeeledJack]

A good account of Manchester's Soviet-Bloc air traffic.

My question was perhaps with the period between the 1950's and 1980's in mind, so to say before the Balkan Holidays et el commenced in the 80's. The twinning of Manchester and Leningrad was no doubt an irritation to the Mandarins of Whitehall, but great for spotters!

[DaveReidUK]

Happily, Manchester still appears to be an irritation to Whitehall. :O

[ATNotts]

I'm sure nothing sinister, but I have noticed that Air Bridge 747-8s almost always arrive in EMA from Krasnoyarsk crossing the Yorkshire coast then heading across Sheffield and then approaching EMA from the north. I assumed that this is just logical based on great circle routings. But then yesterday Volga Dnepr AN124 RA-82074 was inbound from Leipzig and took a similar routing, which for flights between LEJ and EMA did appear very odd, since the very regular DHL and Kallita flights on this route pretty well always approach from the southeast or east. I'd had thought that if there was some operational or economic reason to make landfall to the north of EMA then all the carriers would look to use that routing.

In these troubled times one does wonder, but equally one wonders what they'd expect to be looking for if there was anything untoward going on - and if the UK did have anything to hide why they'd allow such routing from (potentially) hostile nations commercial aircraft.

[SpringHeeledJack]

We'll never know and it could be as you say, something untoward. Either they are allowed, or guided to 'see' whatever as a ruse, or there's nothing to see in general terms. If the resolution of spy satellites are as good as is purported, then 'they' know everything already :-)

[Bames]

I'm sure nothing sinister, but I have noticed that Air Bridge 747-8s almost always arrive in EMA from Krasnoyarsk crossing the Yorkshire coast then heading across Sheffield and then approaching EMA from the north. I assumed that this is just logical based on great circle routings. But then yesterday Volga Dnepr AN124 RA-82074 was inbound from Leipzig and took a similar routing, which for flights between LEJ and EMA did appear very odd, since the very regular DHL and Kallita flights on this route pretty well always approach from the southeast or east. I'd had thought that if there was some operational or economic reason to make landfall to the north of EMA then all the carriers would look to use that routing.

In these troubled times one does wonder, but equally one wonders what they'd expect to be looking for if there was anything untoward going on - and if the UK did have anything to hide why they'd allow such routing from (potentially) hostile nations commercial aircraft.

If I wanted to do something sinister with a Russian airliner, I would not necessarily start with an airline that has a large number of foreign pilots, including British and U.S., and flies regularly to both these countries. ABC has hubs in Atlanta and Chicago.

[ATNotts]

If I wanted to do something sinister with a Russian airliner, I would not necessarily start with an airline that has a large number of foreign pilots, including British and U.S., and flies regularly to both these countries. ABC has hubs in Atlanta and Chicago.

It was the Volga Dnepr that really spiked my interest rather than the Air Bridge because the direct routing from Leipzig is not normally the one they took. it occurred to me yesterday (after posting) that it is conceivable that the UK directed the Volga Dnepr northwards so it wasn't flying over East Anglia. Who knows? Some might say who cares!!

[jensdad]

It was the Volga Dnepr that really spiked my interest rather than the Air Bridge because the direct routing from Leipzig is not normally the one they took. it occurred to me yesterday (after posting) that it is conceivable that the UK directed the Volga Dnepr northwards so it wasn't flying over East Anglia. Who knows? Some might say who cares!!

Good thinking. I've commented here previously about some of the very illogical routings of the various Antonovs that tramp around Europe (One routing something like East Mids to Gothenburg routed over Newcastle I seem to recall) but it never occurred to me that it might actually be UK ATC directing them away from things rather than the crew directing them towards things!

[FUMR]

How naive to think that these transport aircraft would simply be allowed to route wherever they wanted to. I think some of you watch too many Hollywood movies ;)

[PinOnTheRight]

Good thinking. I've commented here previously about some of the very illogical routings of the various Antonovs that tramp around Europe (One routing something like East Mids to Gothenburg routed over Newcastle I seem to recall) but it never occurred to me that it might actually be UK ATC directing them away from things rather than the crew directing them towards things!

If it was Mon-Friday, the D323 complex in the North Sea may have been active and as such, a direct route across towards Gothenburg wouldn't have been available. Options would be to route out over East Anglia and a sharp left turn up towards Copenhagen, or over Newcastle and then NE towards Gothenburg.

[jensdad]

If it was Mon-Friday, the D323 complex in the North Sea may have been active and as such, a direct route across towards Gothenburg wouldn't have been available. Options would be to route out over East Anglia and a sharp left turn up towards Copenhagen, or over Newcastle and then NE towards Gothenburg.
Fair point. I can't remember the exact details but it did look a very strange routing, even taking into account D323. That was just one example though; there were some other strange bendy routes taken by other flights over continental Europe.